Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 26, 2016 Richdg, where do you get all of your know-all on all of these 17-18 year old prospects? I'll admit to knowing very little on any of them other than what I read online and a scattered clip. I've never seen most of them play and the one's I have seen have been 2-3 games at most, and those games I watched, they were never really on my radar... So, I guess I'm just wondering, do you actually scout these players or are you just like the rest of us? Because you seem to be pretty confident in your lists an analysis on every player every year... Anyway, this is what I found on Jake Bean - "A shifty and intelligent defenceman that plays with panache and poise. An excellent skater that is a good puck-carrier up the ice. Makes very good decisions with and without the puck, and plays strong positionally. Works hard and doesn't give the opposition much to work with, but could stand to be a bit more assertive during high pressure situations. That being said, he is not a one dimentional player. He displays natural talent in the offensive end, but also plays a complete defensive game in his own end. He has a proactive stick and boxes the opposition out, limiting lanes. All-in-all, the type of all-around defenceman that you want to have on the ice as much as possible". - eliteprospects.com Certainly doesn't sound like a defenseman that doesn't play defense to me based on that. Care to support your statement with some sort of evidence? Either way, I'd take an offensive minded defenseman that can skate and control the play any day over a defensive minded defenseman that can hit and play in his own zone. But that's just me... I read a lot of different scouting reports on players. Over the last 20 years there are some that I trust and others that I don't based on track records. Doesn't mean I am right or wrong, I just give my opinions based on the information I gather. Nothing more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 26, 2016 Ok, so please support your opinion with some credible sources backing it up... I haven't read or heard a single thing about Bean not being capable of playing defense... He's the number one guy I want right now unless we can somehow move up 8 spots (not going to happen) to grab Chychrun... We would likely have to move up a couple as well in order to land Bean, but he may fall to us at 16... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 26, 2016 You mean like Jones the 6-3/205 LW from Detroit that most "experts" have in the 15-20 range? What does that mean ? "Experts" ... trying to say Jones sucks ? (Never heard of him) Anyways I think our attention needs to go towards drafting dmen first few rounds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HoweFan 74 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Do we have all our picks in this draft? Any extras? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 No 3rd round pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Ok, so please support your opinion with some credible sources backing it up... I haven't read or heard a single thing about Bean not being capable of playing defense... He's the number one guy I want right now unless we can somehow move up 8 spots (not going to happen) to grab Chychrun... We would likely have to move up a couple as well in order to land Bean, but he may fall to us at 16... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Richdg, where do you get all of your know-all on all of these 17-18 year old prospects? I'll admit to knowing very little on any of them other than what I read online and a scattered clip. I've never seen most of them play and the one's I have seen have been 2-3 games at most, and those games I watched, they were never really on my radar... So, I guess I'm just wondering, do you actually scout these players or are you just like the rest of us? Because you seem to be pretty confident in your lists an analysis on every player every year... Anyway, this is what I found on Jake Bean - "A shifty and intelligent defenceman that plays with panache and poise. An excellent skater that is a good puck-carrier up the ice. Makes very good decisions with and without the puck, and plays strong positionally. Works hard and doesn't give the opposition much to work with, but could stand to be a bit more assertive during high pressure situations. That being said, he is not a one dimentional player. He displays natural talent in the offensive end, but also plays a complete defensive game in his own end. He has a proactive stick and boxes the opposition out, limiting lanes. All-in-all, the type of all-around defenceman that you want to have on the ice as much as possible". - eliteprospects.com Certainly doesn't sound like a defenseman that doesn't play defense to me based on that. Care to support your statement with some sort of evidence? Either way, I'd take an offensive minded defenseman that can skate and control the play any day over a defensive minded defenseman that can hit and play in his own zone. But that's just me... There are of course hundreds of draft sites. Learning who to trust takes some time. But if you read what they all say and don't say you learn things. For example: http://futureconsiderations.ca/playerprofiler/JAKE-BEAN/ Lots aof talk about his offensive game which is very good. Nothing about his defensive game. here is another with the same type of review: http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/jake-bean/23447/ Now good look at his stats and you see kid that loves to score and attack the net but not defend his own end. This is not fatal, just the area of his game that is weak and needs to be developed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 So because they go on and on about how gifted he is offensively, but don't mention much about his defensive game, you take that as he "doesn't play defense"?... Here's what I took from those articles... "absolutely deadly in transition", "best puck distributor in draft class", "long skating stride and great edging", "always thinking far ahead", "great passing gets him out of trouble", "defensive ability needs work", "active stick to shut down opponents", "needs added strength"... Thanks for reaffirming my belief that he would be a great pick for us in the first. Based on scouting reports and rankings, I'd like to see us take Jake Bean in the first, Lucas Johansen in the second, and as a late round sleeper pick Kenny Johnson... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 So because they go on and on about how gifted he is offensively, but don't mention much about his defensive game, you take that as he "doesn't play defense"?... Here's what I took from those articles... "absolutely deadly in transition", "best puck distributor in draft class", "long skating stride and great edging", "always thinking far ahead", "great passing gets him out of trouble", "defensive ability needs work", "active stick to shut down opponents", "needs added strength"... Thanks for reaffirming my belief that he would be a great pick for us in the first. Based on scouting reports and rankings, I'd like to see us take Jake Bean in the first, Lucas Johansen in the second, and as a late round sleeper pick Kenny Johnson... well, i'm sold. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Now go watch his tape. Bean is constantly getting caught up ice and out of position. yes he creates offense, but his D creates as much O for the other team as he does for his own. All this being said, 1. I think he is gone 2. I am starting to think Jones will be the pick. There has been a move by the RW's the last few years to bring in more of the talent that the state of Michigan produces. Jones at 16 is a great solid pick. He should also be in the NHL faster than Bean is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 How about you provide some of this said tape, that shows how awful he is defensively... I'd love to see it, seriously, if he's as bad as you claim he is defensively, maybe showing some footage of him getting caught up ice and out of position, would sway me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Wing 1,521 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 We need EXCITING players, screw it if they can play. Maybe Kenny can draft the next Petr Klima this year (he was exciting) to keep us all entertained for when we're being satisfied limping into the playoffs not expecting too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 We need EXCITING players, screw it if they can play. Maybe Kenny can draft the next Petr Klima this year (he was exciting) to keep us all entertained for when we're being satisfied limping into the playoffs not expecting too much. If that is what you want, I would rather have the next Probert than the next Klima. How about you provide some of this said tape, that shows how awful he is defensively... I'd love to see it, seriously, if he's as bad as you claim he is defensively, maybe showing some footage of him getting caught up ice and out of position, would sway me... Just go watch any online Hitman games. It doesn't take long to stand out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Yeah, that's not going to be easy, since Calgary were put out in the first round of the playoffs... We do agree on one thing though... Bean will likely be gone before we draft at 16, and likely for good reason... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 No need to argue guys , everyone here has their own opinions and who they'd like and don't like ... The draft is mostly luck and chance This jake bean kid can be good or he can not ... For me personally if he's available I'd trade up and draft the Finnish dman if he falls to 10-15 , after that I'd just trade back once or twice and add more picks and try and strike gold with 3-4 picks in the top 60 rather than 2 My thinking for that is a lot of good 2nd round defensemen have come out last few seasons and I'm sure if we look at the last 5 years or so of the draft we would see some of the top dmen drafted early never made a big mark Anyways let's hope it all turns out good for us this year and we make some good deals , hope we don't give up our top 2 rounders to make a deal happen though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Just differing opinions. I was just asking Richdg to back up his claims that Bean isn't good defensively. Regardless, I'd be more than happy if we could snag him with our pick. Yeah, I'd like to keep all of our picks as well, but I'd trade our first and second round picks for Trouba in a heartbeat... 1 nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 No need to argue guys , everyone here has their own opinions and who they'd like and don't like ... The draft is mostly luck and chance This jake bean kid can be good or he can not ... For me personally if he's available I'd trade up and draft the Finnish dman if he falls to 10-15 , after that I'd just trade back once or twice and add more picks and try and strike gold with 3-4 picks in the top 60 rather than 2 My thinking for that is a lot of good 2nd round defensemen have come out last few seasons and I'm sure if we look at the last 5 years or so of the draft we would see some of the top dmen drafted early never made a big mark Anyways let's hope it all turns out good for us this year and we make some good deals , hope we don't give up our top 2 rounders to make a deal happen though This is pretty close to what I think too. If any of the top 3 D falls out of the top 10, move up if it's not too crazy a price. I don't want to trade down, at least not more than a couple spots, but I'd love to add an early pick or two. I like Brown and Bellows a little more than the 2nd-tier defensemen. Kind of doubt Brown will be available, but Bellows could be there even if we moved back a little. Then try to add a few picks and take the best D we can find in the first 3 rounds. Fabbro seems to have fallen a little in the latest rankings, could be there late 1st, though I'm not sure we could do anything to get another 1st. Hajek could be there mid-2nd. Niemelainen has fallen a bit too, could go 3rd round. I'm sure there's more, but info on anyone but the top prospects is tough to find. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 The only thing smith and I disagree with is what is the best way to fix our D. We both agree it needs to be improved. Greatly improved is what is needed. 1 nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2016/4/27/11518476/bob-mckenzie-2016-nhl-draft-pre-lottery-top-15-rankings-and-reaction Interesting that McKenzie doesn't have Gauthier in the top 15. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 Now that the U18 games are done there is movement in the rankings. The top Dmen are now trending out of the top 5 on some sites. Brown and Jones are trending up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 27, 2016 http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2016/4/27/11518476/bob-mckenzie-2016-nhl-draft-pre-lottery-top-15-rankings-and-reaction Interesting that McKenzie doesn't have Gauthier in the top 15. Julien gaucherie caught my eye due to his size and my mind went with he and mantha on the top 6 at 6'5 each ... Thing is though as we mentioned we need d , if we drafted a forward then we'd have to later on trade that forward , or svechnikov or mantha or someone of significance to get a dman We can keep saying we draft the best player available but we keep avoiding drafting defensemen when we need one then all these forwards were drafting , one or two of them will need to get traded down the road for defense Might as well trade down and go for some defensemen with those picks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted April 28, 2016 Julien gaucherie caught my eye due to his size and my mind went with he and mantha on the top 6 at 6'5 each ... Thing is though as we mentioned we need d , if we drafted a forward then we'd have to later on trade that forward , or svechnikov or mantha or someone of significance to get a dman We can keep saying we draft the best player available but we keep avoiding drafting defensemen when we need one then all these forwards were drafting , one or two of them will need to get traded down the road for defense Might as well trade down and go for some defensemen with those picks The need for D is now, which is the problem and why the draft isn't the solution. Dmen in general take longer to develop. A F may be ready in 2-3 years but most Dmen take longer 3-5 years. Sproul and Oullett are classic examples. Both were highly rated, drafted in the second round. That was 4 years ago and neither is ready. Most also expect them to develop some day. I prefer F's in the draft and trade for the D. Its not like we are filled with great F's yet. We still have the need for 2-3 more high end F's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 2, 2016 Just some rising/failing stuff. Chychrun is falling. Might be out of the top 10. Brown is rising. Might be in the top 10. Bean is rising. Many now think he is firmly in the top 10. Bastian is falling. Mid second round now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) I personally would trade the 16 to the jets if possible for the 22 and 36 Been reading up on some draft stuff online and checking out players Sure the 2 Finns going in the top 3 everyone knows about but I seen a few others who caught my eye that we can look at later in the draft Number 9 euro rated prospect henrik borgstrom , gonna turn 19 later after the draft and put up some good numbers in Finland , like 50+ pts I believe and is going the NCAA route next season, and he stands at 6'3 The other one I believe was ranked 28th Otto koivula who's only 17 (turns 18 in September ) who's 6'4 220 and put up 50+ pts already http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=241338 I know most kids usually get passed over at that age but I'd love for us to risk it and hope he turns out to be a star As for defense there's 15 euro ranked Lucas carlsson who went undrafted last season and is gonna turn 19, and Stepan falkovsky who also went undrafted last season and stands at 6'7 and came down to North America to play in the juniors this last season Also like Dennis cholowski, Lucas johansen(Ryan johansen'a brother),Frederic allard,James greenway and Kenny Johnson (jack johnsons brother) Gonna keep reading around, alot of info out there .... I like to look at 30+ ranked guys and some euro guys and look for possible gems Edited May 2, 2016 by nyqvististhefuture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 2, 2016 I personally would trade the 16 to the jets if possible for the 22 and 36 Been reading up on some draft stuff online and checking out players Sure the 2 Finns going in the top 3 everyone knows about but I seen a few others who caught my eye that we can look at later in the draft Number 9 euro rated prospect henrik borgstrom , gonna turn 19 later after the draft and put up some good numbers in Finland , like 50+ pts I believe and is going the NCAA route next season, and he stands at 6'3 The other one I believe was ranked 28th Otto koivula who's only 17 (turns 18 in September ) who's 6'4 220 and put up 50+ pts already http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=241338 I know most kids usually get passed over at that age but I'd love for us to risk it and hope he turns out to be a star As for defense there's 15 euro ranked Lucas carlsson who went undrafted last season and is gonna turn 19, and Stepan falkovsky who also went undrafted last season and stands at 6'7 and came down to North America to play in the juniors this last season Also like Dennis cholowski, Lucas johansen(Ryan johansen'a brother),Frederic allard,James greenway and Kenny Johnson (jack johnsons brother) Gonna keep reading around, alot of info out there .... I like to look at 30+ ranked guys and some euro guys and look for possible gems Greenway would be a good 3rd rd pick if we had one....... Going to college which gives us extra time on the development side. 1 nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
