krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: A 10 point jump. Right now they have 17 points one third of the way through the season. 10 divided by 3 = 3.3333 I'll round that off for you. This time next year they'd have 4 extra points. 21 points. IF they had those 21 points this season they'd be 2nd last, ahead of NJ by one point and NJ would have 4 games in had. STILL the basement. Like I said. Bottom 5 team next year and probably the following season as well. IMO I'll ask again, is a 10+ point jump in the standings not a significant improvement? We're on pace to have 51 points, the worst season since '85-86 (end of the "Dead Wings" era) when we had 40 points. This is rock bottom. We will start to trend in the right direction next season. We'll likely still be bottom 5, maybe even bottom 3, but we will be a much better team on the ice and in the standings... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: I'll ask again, is a 10+ point jump in the standings not a significant improvement? We're on pace to have 51 points, the worst season since '85-86 (end of the "Dead Wings" era) when we had 40 points. This is rock bottom. We will start to trend in the right direction next season. We'll likely still be bottom 5, maybe even bottom 3, but we will be a much better team on the ice and in the standings... I'm saying we're going to suck. Hard. You're saying we're going to "improve significantly" alllllllll the way from last to 3rd last. Translation: still sux Why are you arguing with me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I'm saying we're going to suck. Hard. You're saying we're going to "improve significantly" alllllllll the way from last to 3rd last. Translation: still sux Why are you arguing with me? We'll there certainly is nothing to be entertained by in the games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I'm saying we're going to suck. Hard. You're saying we're going to "improve significantly" alllllllll the way from last to 3rd last. Translation: still sux Why are you arguing with me? LOL Why are you arguing with me? I'm the one that originally says (in a few different threads), I think this is rock bottom, we should be much improved next season... And you say, "No", we're going to suck, we're three years away from the playoffs... To be clear, I'm not really putting a number on our position in the standings, because I have no idea which teams will progress / regress next season. I just think we will be one of the teams that will see progress by a significant margin (10*+* points). Who knows, if everything goes right, maybe it will be 26 points, and we will be on the bubble. Doubtful, but not out of the realm of possibility... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: LOL Why are you arguing with me? I'm the one that originally says (in a few different threads), I think this is rock bottom, we should be much improved next season... And you say, "No", we're going to suck, we're three years away from the playoffs... To be clear, I'm not really putting a number on our position in the standings, because I have no idea which teams will progress / regress next season. I just think we will be one of the teams that will see progress by a significant margin (10*+* points). Who knows, if everything goes right, maybe it will be 26 points, and we will be on the bubble. Doubtful, but not out of the realm of possibility... I guess just consider "suck" to be a more general thing than you do. As always, I admire your optimism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I guess just consider "suck" to be a more general thing than you do. As always, I admire your optimism. Appreciate it, but I don't even think I'm being overly optimistic here. It's not like I'm saying any of our players / prospects are going to be elite. In fact, I've acknowledged that we lack that elite talent. I do think we have a lot of high-end talent in the pipe though. I don't think we're close to being out of this rebuild yet, but I think we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, marcaractac said: The big difference next season will be goal differential. Hopefully Worst differential in the league right now at -45 Next closest is NJ at -23 Edited November 28, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 5 hours ago, krsmith17 said: I'll ask again, is a 10+ point jump in the standings not a significant improvement? We're on pace to have 51 points, the worst season since '85-86 (end of the "Dead Wings" era) when we had 40 points. This is rock bottom. We will start to trend in the right direction next season. We'll likely still be bottom 5, maybe even bottom 3, but we will be a much better team on the ice and in the standings... No. That's like 3 more wins and 4 more OTL. From worst overall to 5th worst is not a big improvement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Appreciate it, but I don't even think I'm being overly optimistic here. It's not like I'm saying any of our players / prospects are going to be elite. In fact, I've acknowledged that we lack that elite talent. I do think we have a lot of high-end talent in the pipe though. I don't think we're close to being out of this rebuild yet, but I think we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I guess it's the nice *and* not-so-nice thing about everything sucking. Everything sucks, which sucks. *But*, that being the case, even just a couple "minor" fixes can lead to huge improvement. Like, let's not even take the draft into consideration. Say all we do is sign Robin Lehner or Jacob Markstrom this summer. That's an upgrade. That's a pretty big deal. Now say we add Torey Krug. That's an upgrade. That's a pretty big deal. And, again, this isn't even taking the draft into consideration. It's not taking internal growth (Seider) into consideration either. So I think we'll be ok. I'm expecting a lot of pain this season and probably next season too, but I think we're going to see payoff and progress. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: No. That's like 3 more wins and 4 more OTL. From worst overall to 5th worst is not a big improvement. No matter how you slice it, 5 extra wins, 10 extra OT losses or somewhere in between, that's a significant improvement. And that's the low end in my opinion. I could easily see this team finishing with around 60 points this season, and upwards of 75 points next season. That's a pretty big upswing. Very few teams have a massive upswing (26 points) like Toronto did a few years ago. 1 hour ago, Dabura said: I guess it's the nice *and* not-so-nice thing about everything sucking. Everything sucks, which sucks. *But*, that being the case, even just a couple "minor" fixes can lead to huge improvement. Like, let's not even take the draft into consideration. Say all we do is sign Robin Lehner or Jacob Markstrom this summer. That's an upgrade. That's a pretty big deal. Now say we add Torey Krug. That's an upgrade. That's a pretty big deal. And, again, this isn't even taking the draft into consideration. It's not taking internal growth (Seider) into consideration either. So I think we'll be ok. I'm expecting a lot of pain this season and probably next season too, but I think we're going to see payoff and progress. Exactly. Say what you want about this defense, but goaltending has not been close to good enough. Adding an upgrade between the pipes, could get us an extra 4-5 wins alone, and definitely keep games more competitive. Then you add a few (even if they're small) upgrades, in other areas, and I can see this team taking big strides next season. We're still not likely anywhere close to a playoff team, but I don't think it's as far away as some may think... 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: No matter how you slice it, 5 extra wins, 10 extra OT losses or somewhere in between, that's a significant improvement. And that's the low end in my opinion. I could easily see this team finishing with around 60 points this season, and upwards of 75 points next season. That's a pretty big upswing. Very few teams have a massive upswing (26 points) like Toronto did a few years ago. Exactly. Say what you want about this defense, but goaltending has not been close to good enough. Adding an upgrade between the pipes, could get us an extra 4-5 wins alone, and definitely keep games more competitive. Then you add a few (even if they're small) upgrades, in other areas, and I can see this team taking big strides next season. We're still not likely anywhere close to a playoff team, but I don't think it's as far away as some may think... Say we fix the power play. Hell, maybe we don't even fix it -- maybe it merely scores a goal sometimes. Can you imagine? A Red Wings power play that actually scores a goal sometimes? Can you imagine??? So, y'know, I look at Torey Krug -- one of the league's elite PP QBs -- and I see a guy who wouldn't be a gamechanger...but kinda sorta would be a gamechanger. In theory. (Side note: Zadina finished this game -- the Toronto game -- with an even rating. We scored 0 goals, the Leafs scored 6 goals...and Zadina finished with an even rating. And he played 16:34, so it's not like he was stapled to the bench. Point being: Don't rule out the possibility that Zadina is ultimately going to be a solid player for us.) Edited November 28, 2019 by Dabura 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Dabura said: Say we fix the power play. Hell, maybe we don't even fix it -- maybe it merely scores a goal sometimes. Can you imagine? A Red Wings power play that actually scores a goal sometimes? Can you imagine??? So, y'know, I look at Torey Krug -- one of the league's elite PP QBs -- and I see a guy who wouldn't be a gamechanger...but kinda sorta would be a gamechanger. In theory. (Side note: Zadina finished this game -- the Toronto game -- with an even rating. We scored 0 goals, the Leafs scored 6 goals...and Zadina finished with an even rating. And he played 16:34, so it's not like he was stapled to the bench. Point being: Don't rule out the possibility that Zadina is ultimately going to be a solid player for us.) I'm not sure if elite is still in the cards for Zadina (maybe), but I still think he'll at least be a high end top six winger, with top line winger upside... He's been a point per game player, and looking very good the past dozen games in the AHL. Just turned 20 yesterday. Still a ton of room to grow and develop as a player. 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) On 11/28/2019 at 9:06 AM, krsmith17 said: I don't think there will be much of a change in the near future, aside from DeKeyser hopefully getting healthy soon. Next season, all of Green, Daley, Ericsson, McIlrath, Biega will likely be out, and Seider will be in. That alone should (in theory) be a pretty significant upgrade. I could see something like this next season... DeKeyser - Hronek Krug - Seider Cholowski - Nemeth/Bowey That's not a terrible defense (on paper), and I could still see Yzerman acquiring a defenseman via trade before next season as well, or perhaps another stop-gap UFA... I know some think next season will be just as bad or worse than this season, but I do believe this is rock bottom. I'm not saying we'll be a playoff team as early as next season, but I do think we'll be much improved... Fixed it Edited November 29, 2019 by marcaractac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mackel 681 Report post Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) On 11/28/2019 at 10:10 AM, krsmith17 said: This is one area I could definitely see us addressing via free agency this offseason. Healthy DeKeyser (?). Addition by subtraction. Trade (?). I don't necessarily agree with this, but a new coach (?) could change this. This could honestly be a strength as early as next season. We may still lack the elite talent (unless we get a top 2 pick), but depth shouldn't be an issue. Lafreniere (if we're that lucky) could legitimately have a Matthews level impact on this team in his first season. The Leafs jumped 26! points after the Matthews draft. We need to draft Byfield... he and Lafreniere are comparable but we need quality centers... its much easier to add a quality winger or two to complement and all world center, than it is to add a quality center to compliment an all world winger. The best case scenario for this rebuild is that Larkin continues to progress/plays well in his prime and is our 2nd line center, because that's where he fits. Edited November 29, 2019 by mackel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, marcaractac said: Fixed it It's a no on Krug for me... Unless he takes a huge discount to play in his home state... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, mackel said: We need to draft Byfield... he and Lafreniere are comparable but we need quality centers... its much easier to add a quality winger or two to complement and all world center, than it is to add a quality center to compliment an all world winger. The best case scenario for this rebuild is that Larkin continues to progress/plays well in his prime and is our 2nd line center, because that's where he fits. Lafreniere and Byfield are comparable, but as of right now, Lafreniere is the consensus number one pick, and for good reason. He has the potential to be elite. He's been dominating the Q, putting up close to Crosby numbers. We need to take the best player available, regardless of position. I wouldn't hope we land in the number two spot, just so we can take the center, and I certainly wouldn't pass on Lafreniere at number one because Byfield is a center... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
