Fabbri or Zadina?

[Dabura 12,207]

12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I like both players

I lIkE bOtH pLaYeRs

We're at war, damn it! Pick a side!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 12/22/2019 at 1:03 PM, Dabura said:

I can respect that. I do feel like it's kinda nitpicking tho. 7 points through 12 games. Somehow only a -1, despite playing on a team that doesn't score goals and gives up 4+ goals a game. We can't really attribute that to pure athleticism, as we both agree that he isn't blessed with any significant physical advantages. And I don't feel "He's a very hard worker" is a satisfactory explanation. I would say the high IQ is there and that it simply isn't manifesting the way we might've hoped it would be manifesting by this point. It could be that Zadina's full potential is a reliable, quietly effective player who consistently makes the right play and finds a way to get the job done. Sort of like Zetterberg.

I wont ever complain about a wing prospect doing well. But im tempering my expectations with him. As I should with Fabbri as well. Both may end up as 50 pt tatar/nyq wingers.

We both agree Zadina HAS to be smart to be successful. I really dont see that galaxy brain yet. Not at all Zberg level anyway. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

14 hours ago, Dabura said:

I lIkE bOtH pLaYeRs

We're at war, damn it! Pick a side!

No clear winner. I'll play neutral until the winner becomes more clear. Then decide.

37 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I wont ever complain about a wing prospect doing well. But im tempering my expectations with him. As I should with Fabbri as well. Both may end up as 50 pt tatar/nyq wingers.

We both agree Zadina HAS to be smart to be successful. I really dont see that galaxy brain yet. Not at all Zberg level anyway. 

I see Fabbri as our 3C going forward.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I see Fabbri as our 3C going forward.

I don't think Fabbri will ever play much center. I see him as more of a middle six winger. Zadina, top six winger.

[Dabura 12,207]

12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I wont ever complain about a wing prospect doing well. But im tempering my expectations with him. As I should with Fabbri as well. Both may end up as 50 pt tatar/nyq wingers.

We both agree Zadina HAS to be smart to be successful. I really dont see that galaxy brain yet. Not at all Zberg level anyway. 

I hear ya. Guess I'm just wondering 1) why he has to be a galaxy brain and 2) what that would entail. I'd say he's a better player now than Nyquist and Tatar were at his age. (Let's remember: He turned 20 a month ago.) He's not yet the destroyer of worlds that we'd all hoped he'd be by this point, and it's entirely possible he never becomes that player. But I feel like Zadina's more or less what you'd expect from your average 6th overall pick. Quinn Hughes is probably the better player right now and that stings a little bit. But I continue to be more than ok with the decision to take Zadina. 8 points through 13 games and he's only going to get better.

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No clear winner. I'll play neutral until the winner becomes more clear. Then decide.

You do make good chocolate, I'll give you that.

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think Fabbri will ever play much center. I see him as more of a middle six winger. Zadina, top six winger.

Agreed.

[marcaractac 3,963]

On 12/23/2019 at 12:28 PM, Dabura said:

I lIkE bOtH pLaYeRs

We're at war, damn it! Pick a side!

Howard

[Dabura 12,207]

16 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Howard

When I am mod you will be first against the wall.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:54 AM, Dabura said:

I hear ya. Guess I'm just wondering 1) why he has to be a galaxy brain and 2) what that would entail. I'd say he's a better player now than Nyquist and Tatar were at his age. (Let's remember: He turned 20 a month ago.) He's not yet the destroyer of worlds that we'd all hoped he'd be by this point, and it's entirely possible he never becomes that player. But I feel like Zadina's more or less what you'd expect from your average 6th overall pick. Quinn Hughes is probably the better player right now and that stings a little bit. But I continue to be more than ok with the decision to take Zadina. 8 points through 13 games and he's only going to get better.

You do make good chocolate, I'll give you that.

Agreed.

I expect to get an elite player in the top6. Especially with one who WAS ranked top 3.

I am still not dissuaded away from that being a reasonable expectation.

Zads is small, not fast, not strong. Hes a cerebral player, and if hes gonna be a great player it will be with his brain.

Otherise hes just a pretty snap shot

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

39 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

... small, not fast, not strong. Hes a cerebral player, and if hes gonna be a great player it will be with his brain...

Sounds eerily similar to two Euro's we drafted in the 6th / 7th rounds of '98 / '99...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Sounds eerily similar to two Euro's we drafted in the 6th / 7th rounds of '98 / '99...

I absolutely hope he will be a Dats or a Zberg

I just highly doubt he will be based on what I've seen.

On any other team this kid would already be a superstar. On this team he's not. That's the definition of the type of player we don't need. The type of player who's going to prolong the dead wings for 5-10-40 years. We need Seiders and Yzermans, not Hollands and Zadinas/Tatars/Filppulas

Kids gonna be pretty good trade bait in a few years. This is not a lifelong red wing.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I absolutely hope he will be a Dats or a Zberg

I just highly doubt he will be based on what I've seen.

Not a single person thought Datsyuk and Zetterberg were going to be Datsyuk and Zetterberg when they were 19/20 years old. There were fans clamoring to trade both early in their careers. Thankfully Holland wasn't that dumb. Hopefully Yzerman won't be either. 

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

On any other team this kid would already be a superstar. On this team he's not. That's the definition of the type of player we don't need. The type of player who's going to prolong the dead wings for 5-10-40 years. We need Seiders and Yzermans, not Hollands and Zadinas/Tatars/Filppulas

On any other team this kid would already be a superstar. On this team he will be when we're good in a few years.

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Kids gonna be pretty good trade bait in a few years. This is not a lifelong red wing.

The thing is, I wouldn't care if we traded him in the right package. If we were able to get a Sergachev or similar player, like you mentioned previously, I'd at least have to think long and hard about it. Zadina (or any player on this team) definitely isn't untouchable.

[Dabura 12,207]

19 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I expect to get an elite player in the top6. Especially with one who WAS ranked top 3.

I am still not dissuaded away from that being a reasonable expectation.

Zads is small, not fast, not strong. Hes a cerebral player, and if hes gonna be a great player it will be with his brain.

Otherise hes just a pretty snap shot

Sure. I don't really disagree with any of this. I'm just saying "If he's truly That Player, why am I not seeing him doing galaxy brain things?" strikes me as kind of a nitpicky take. I would say he *is* displaying a worthy-of-6th-overall hockey brain. Even if he's not, he's still putting up points and being defensively responsible and showing well in the possession metrics -- and he's doing all this as a just-turned-20 kid on a horribad team that can't do anything right. All this while being a smallish guy who doesn't skate like the wind.

He'll continue to get stronger, his skating will continue to improve, the NHL game will continue to slow down for him. I'm expecting really good things from him.

10 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

On any other team this kid would already be a superstar. On this team he's not. That's the definition of the type of player we don't need. The type of player who's going to prolong the dead wings for 5-10-40 years. We need Seiders and Yzermans, not Hollands and Zadinas/Tatars/Filppulas

bruh c'mon

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

15 hours ago, Dabura said:

Sure. I don't really disagree with any of this. I'm just saying "If he's truly That Player, why am I not seeing him doing galaxy brain things?" strikes me as kind of a nitpicky take. I would say he *is* displaying a worthy-of-6th-overall hockey brain. Even if he's not, he's still putting up points and being defensively responsible and showing well in the possession metrics -- and he's doing all this as a just-turned-20 kid on a horribad team that can't do anything right. All this while being a smallish guy who doesn't skate like the wind.

He'll continue to get stronger, his skating will continue to improve, the NHL game will continue to slow down for him. I'm expecting really good things from him.

bruh c'mon

Bruh look at Pettersson. Stars make it early these days. This isn't the Zberg and Dats days anymore. Zadina is not star quality. Keep telling urselves he is. I can breakdown his game for days about why he's not. I do it and no one ever refutes it. Errybody just keeps sippin

Edited December 28, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,207]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Bruh look at Pettersson. Stars make it early these days. This isn't the Zberg and Dats days anymore. Zadina is not star quality. Keep telling urselves he is. I can breakdown his game for days about why he's not. I do it and no one ever refutes it. Errybody just keeps sippin

To me, saying, "Zadina isn't a star and that's a problem," implies that we clearly should've taken someone else with that pick. So which player drafted after Zadina in the 2018 draft is performing like That Player right now in the NHL and making Holland and our scouts look like fools for taking Zadina where we took him?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html

I can accept Quinn Hughes as a respectable answer, though I'm not convinced he's the kind of cornerstone talent you're talking about. (Gostisbehere looked like the second coming of Erik Karlsson in his rookie season. Today? Not so much.) Beyond Hughes, I don't see any reason for getting bent out of shape over the Zadina pick.

[Dabura 12,207]

For what it's worth:

• Hughes - 3 G + 27 A = 30 P thru 42 NHL games (0.71 PPG)
• Zadina - 4 G + 7 A = 11 P thru 22 NHL games (0.50 PPG)

Edited December 28, 2019 by Dabura

[Dabura 12,207]

EDIT: Wrong thread.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Dabura

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

EDIT: Wrong thread.

You do this a lot. What kind of job do u have?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

16 hours ago, Dabura said:

To me, saying, "Zadina isn't a star and that's a problem," implies that we clearly should've taken someone else with that pick. So which player drafted after Zadina in the 2018 draft is performing like That Player right now in the NHL and making Holland and our scouts look like fools for taking Zadina where we took him?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html

I can accept Quinn Hughes as a respectable answer, though I'm not convinced he's the kind of cornerstone talent you're talking about. (Gostisbehere looked like the second coming of Erik Karlsson in his rookie season. Today? Not so much.) Beyond Hughes, I don't see any reason for getting bent out of shape over the Zadina pick.

I wouldn't say my argument is predicated on the fact that there was a better choice. My argument is simply that I do not like the way Zadina plays and he will not live up to his draft pedigree.

If I must say who I'd prefer over him, I'd answer any of the Dmen everyone jerked about. Hughes/Bouchard/Dobson. Probably another name I'm forgetting. I'd say most of the players will probably end up being more valuable in coming years. I'd probably take Bouchard in a re-draft. He at least plays the way I feel a Dmen should play the game.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,207]

12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You do this a lot. What kind of job do u have?

your mom

[Dabura 12,207]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I wouldn't say my argument is predicated on the fact that there was a better choice. My argument is simply that I do not like the way Zadina plays and he will not live up to his draft pedigree.

i DoN't LiKe tHe WaY zAdInA pLaYs

wE sHoUlD'vE dRaFtEd DoBsOn

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, Dabura said:

your mom

That's not a job, it's an adventure.

[Dabura 12,207]

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That's not a job, it's an adventure.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

19 hours ago, Dabura said:

i DoN't LiKe tHe WaY zAdInA pLaYs

wE sHoUlD'vE dRaFtEd DoBsOn

Little do you know I am unaffected by the bants.

I think it will play out like this:

Zadina does good (Yay)

Then in a few years the Dmen catch up (sorta yay)

Then by the time Zadina reaches UFA status it's revealed he's a pretty average scoring forward (yay?)

[Dabura 12,207]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Little do you know I am unaffected by the bants.

I think it will play out like this:

Zadina does good (Yay)

Then in a few years the Dmen catch up (sorta yay)

Then by the time Zadina reaches UFA status it's revealed he's a pretty average scoring forward (yay?)

TBH, I think there's a not-entirely-remote chance that we package him away for a good young left-shot defenseman like Hanifin.

[Dabura 12,207]

(This, of course, largely hinges on who we get with our 2020 1st.)