Fabbri or Zadina?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

30 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

She speaks perfect swedish Central-Norwegian and her name sounds suspiciously fennoswedish half Eastern-Norwegian and half Central-Norwegian. She probably loves Å. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Since this is being discussed in the "Cholowski Sucks" thread, I thought I would talk about Cholowski here. He sucks.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Since this is being discussed in the "Cholowski Sucks" thread, I thought I would talk about Cholowski here. He sucks.

Hicketts/Seider/McIlrath/Lashoff should all be callups before him.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Fabbrina.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Hicketts/Seider/McIlrath/Lashoff should all be callups before him.

I agree except for the bolded. I think Hicketts actually sucks at the NHL level and Lashoff is just a plug so why bother.

Seider is legit and Mcllrath will at least hit the s*** out of some people. With that said I haven't watched much if any of Cholowski since being in GR so I guess I'm not too mad about seeing him again. I've just been taking everyone's word for it that he hasn't been great down there. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I agree except for the bolded. I think Hicketts actually sucks at the NHL level and Lashoff is just a plug so why bother.

Seider is legit and Mcllrath will at least hit the s*** out of some people. With that said I haven't watched much if any of Cholowski since being in GR so I guess I'm not too mad about seeing him again. I've just been taking everyone's word for it that he hasn't been great down there. 

McIlrath plays a solid, safe game and adds toughness. Really hoping he gets a permanent spot next season once dead weight on the Blueline is shed. Let him handle the fighting instead of Mantha.

[bIueadams 776]

Seravalli: Zadina Joins The List of Trade Targets

Quote

GM Steve Yzerman doesn’t tip his hand, but the sense league-wide is a change of scenery is in order for Zadina. Teams perked up when Zadina spent six games on the top line from Feb. 9-26, seeing it as a ‘showcase’ opportunity ahead of a potential trade. He scored twice in those six games, putting him on track for 11 goals in 80 games. Zadina is a gifted shooter, but the knock on him is that he’s become more of a perimeter player – and only a select few players (Alex Ovechkin or Steven Stamkos) can consistently in today’s NHL from the outside. Zadina was also a healthy scratch on Jan. 4 and his ice time is down more than two and a half minutes from last season – which is a lot considering the recent bump on the first line is already factored into the equation.

Fabbri extended. Zadina being showcased for a trade.

Wait for it...

Here it comes...

"I told ya so"

[bIueadams 776]

This thread makes for a solid re-read btw

Some good moments:

On 12/16/2019 at 1:11 PM, krsmith17 said:

Zadina is as good or better right now, and he WILL be the better player going forward.

 

On 12/16/2019 at 1:57 PM, krsmith17 said:

Zadina is better than Fabbri right f***ing now. Deal with it.

 

On 12/16/2019 at 8:22 PM, krsmith17 said:

For every "flaw" you see in Zadina, there are 5 "strengths".

 

On 12/17/2019 at 11:48 AM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm building a catalog of Zadina praise/hype so I can point and laugh later when he busts

@marcaractac can you facebook KR for me and tell him to come show his coward face

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Being as Zadina and Fabbri are similar players at this point, and Zadina is several years younger with room to grow, I would still pick him if I had to choose.

That said, if SY can get a good return, a player should be traded.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[bIueadams 776]

6 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Being as Zadina and Fabbri are similar players at this point, and Zadina is several years younger with room to grow, I would still pick him if I had to choose.

That said, if SY can get a good return, a player should be traded.

Zadina will never be able to hold a flame to Fabbri. He'll be in the KHL by the time he hits Fabbri's age. He certainly will not pass GO, and will not collect $4 million dollars. Book it. Mark it. Take it to the bank. Become rich. Get box seats to watch Fabs win his first Wings cup. Then call me and apologize.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Zadina will never be able to hold a flame to Fabbri. He'll be in the KHL by the time he hits Fabbri's age. He certainly will not pass GO, and will not collect $4 million dollars. Book it. Mark it. Take it to the bank. Become rich. Get box seats to watch Fabs win his first Wings cup. Then call me and apologize.

I like Fabbri. He has peaked tho. Zadina still has the potential to be better. May not happen,  but worth the risk. Fabbri is not a building block. Still better to keep the guy who could be.

[bIueadams 776]

6 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I like Fabbri. He has peaked tho. Zadina still has the potential to be better. May not happen,  but worth the risk. Fabbri is not a building block. Still better to keep the guy who could be.

For the life of me I have no idea what you guys see in him, other than age and draft pedigree. He's decent at stripping a puck. That's about all I can come up with. Shot not accurate. Shot choice awful. Passing completely pedestrian. IQ and instincts non-existent. Terrible in board battles. No upper body strength. Afraid of doing anything besides playing the perimeter.

This is our Yakupov. He's not changing his game, adjusting, growing. He keeps returning to the dry well hoping to find water. But he's never going to have the time and space he needs to be the player he was in the Q in the NHL, and he seemingly does not understand this.

I don't think he's anywhere in SY's future plans at this point.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

For the life of me I have no idea what you guys see in him, other than age and draft pedigree. He's decent at stripping a puck. That's about all I can come up with. Shot not accurate. Shot choice awful. Passing completely pedestrian. IQ and instincts non-existent. Terrible in board battles. No upper body strength. Afraid of doing anything besides playing the perimeter.

This is our Yakupov. He's not changing his game, adjusting, growing. He keeps returning to the dry well hoping to find water. But he's never going to have the time and space he needs to be the player he was in the Q in the NHL, and he seemingly does not understand this.

I don't think he's anywhere in SY's future plans at this point.

did u like the 3rd line last nt?

[bIueadams 776]

9 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

did u like the 3rd line last nt?

I did. And I like the whole idea of a kids line. Sticking them all together takes some of the pressure off of playing with older established guys. No one to cater to or impress. Go for it and make mistakes, but go for it.

[bIueadams 776]

I assume that if we were to move Zadina now it would be a swap for a player in a similar situation needing a change of scenery.

So what is the story with Chychrun? Why is he so much worse this year? I know he had some injury issues... and also has been thrust into OEL's old spot with bad partners. But it is kinda alarming his regression this year. If there's no lingering injury concerns I'd give up Zadina plus to snag him.

EDIT: So I read through a good portion of the Chychrun megathread on the Yotes HFBoard. They seem as baffled as anyone. But it doesn't seem like he has a lingering injury issue. Many suspect it's laziness and disinterest after the team basically went back to tanking and yeeted all his buddies out of town. Guy probably wants out. And Yotes org seem to be treating this like he's still a stud 60pt Dman.

To DET: Chychrun
To ARI: Zadina + Lindstrom + 1st

Next year:

Chychrun - Seider
UFA - Hronek
Oesterle - UFA

We have some HUGE holes coming up at D. Chychrun alone doesn't even begin to fill them. I wouldn't be surprised if SY swings a deal like this.

Edited March 3, 2022 by bIueadams

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

I assume that if we were to move Zadina now it would be a swap for a player in a similar situation needing a change of scenery.

So what is the story with Chychrun? Why is he so much worse this year? I know he had some injury issues... and also has been thrust into OEL's old spot with bad partners. But it is kinda alarming his regression this year. If there's no lingering injury concerns I'd give up Zadina plus to snag him.

EDIT: So I read through a good portion of the Chychrun megathread on the Yotes HFBoard. They seem as baffled as anyone. But it doesn't seem like he has a lingering injury issue. Many suspect it's laziness and disinterest after the team basically went back to tanking and yeeted all his buddies out of town. Guy probably wants out. And Yotes org seem to be treating this like he's still a stud 60pt Dman.

To DET: Chychrun
To ARI: Zadina + Lindstrom + 1st

Next year:

Chychrun - Seider
UFA - Hronek
Oesterle - UFA

We have some HUGE holes coming up at D. Chychrun alone doesn't even begin to fill them. I wouldn't be surprised if SY swings a deal like this.

not enough assets to get Chychrun.

 

Raymond+Edvinsson+Zadina+Suter+Rasmussen+Lindstrom+2022 1st+2023 1st.

 

That will probably be Yzerman's offer.

 

Larkin-Stephens-Bertuzzi

Berggren-Veleno-Hirose

Stephens-Gagner-Smith

Fabbri-Stephens-Vrana

 

Osterle-Chychrun

Seider-Osterle

Hronek-Lashoff

 

Probably roll like that after the trade.

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

10 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

did u like the 3rd line last nt?

It would be better with Berg in place of Zadina tbh

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

It would be better with Berg in place of Zadina tbh

Dont worry.  You will have plenty of time to whip him too next year.

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Dont worry.  You will have plenty of time to whip him too next year.

When have I ever shat on Zadina? It's not outrageous to think Berggren has more potential at this point. 

I get wanting Zadina to pan out to be something meaningful. But god damn the lengths people go to defend him is ridiculous. It makes me want to see him traded just for the reactions.

The only type of Wings fan more annoying than Zadina appologists are those who get outraged over Zegras Calder hype. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by marcaractac

[kipwinger 8,524]

I listen to the Winged Wheel Podcast (for some reason) and those guys fall all over themselves making excuses for Zadina. But they seem to have settled in on, "it's Blashill's fault". Despite Blash moving him up and down the lineup, giving him powerplay time, and constantly defending Zadina's lack of production to the media.

But the thing is, this is all a misconception caused by an over reliance on certain types of analytics. We've seen it before (B. Smith, T. Pulkkinen). The analysis bros would have you believe that points don't matter, and even shots on goal don't matter. What matters is...wait for it...shot attempts. And THAT'S what Zadina is good at (supposedly). When he's on the ice the Wings have the puck in the offensive zone more. Does that lead to shots on goal? Nope. Goes it lead to scoring changes? Nada. Does it lead to blocked shots and misses? Bingo.

This is why Zadina can be heralded as having good "fancy stats" despite having fewer goals, points, primary assists, goals/60, points/60, and primaryassists/60 than a dude like Rasmussen (someone analytics folks hate). Because they're counting missed shots too, and BOY can Zadina miss shots. And they're just certain that if he keeps getting premium minutes, and keeps missing shots, that his numbers will soon go up through the magical process of "reverting to the mean".

Edited March 3, 2022 by kipwinger

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I listen to the Winged Wheel Podcast (for some reason) and those guys fall all over themselves making excuses for Zadina. But they seem to have settled in on, "it's Blashill's fault". Despite Blash moving him up and down the lineup, giving him powerplay time, and constantly defending Zadina's lack of production to the media.

But the thing is, this is all a misconception caused by an over reliance on certain types of analytics. We've seen it before (B. Smith, T. Pulkkinen). The analysis bros would have you believe that points don't matter, and even shots on goal don't matter. What matters is...wait for it...shot attempts. And THAT'S what Zadina is good at (supposedly). When he's on the ice the Wings have the puck in the offensive zone more. Does that lead to shots on goal? Nope. Goes it lead to scoring changes? Nada. Does it lead to blocked shots and misses? Bingo.

This is why Zadina can be heralded as having good "fancy stats" despite having fewer goals, points, primary assists, goals/60, points/60, and primaryassists/60 than a dude like Rasmussen (someone analytics folks hate). Because they're counting missed shots too, and BOY can Zadina miss shots. And they're just certain that if he keeps getting premium minutes, and keeps missing shots, that his numbers will soon go up through the magical process of "reverting to the mean".

Like plus/minus, these certain analytics need to be looked at through a specific lens for each player. If Zadina had these good fancy stats when deployed primarily from the defensive zone, I'd be like f*** yeah. But as you mentioned, that very much is not the case. 

I'd love to see the kid pan out, but I figure at best we can hope for a solid middle 6 winger at this point. Pretty ******* easily replaceable, I might add. 

If he can be moved as part of a deal to bring something important back, it has to be done. 

[bIueadams 776]

Leddy and Names aren't going to fetch amazing returns.

You know SY is on the prowl for another Mantha type big deal shakeup.

It's Zadinas time to go. Hopefully a cap crunched team will take a swing on him. Ken...

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Leddy and Names aren't going to fetch amazing returns.

You know SY is on the prowl for another Mantha type big deal shakeup.

It's Zadinas time to go. Hopefully a cap crunched team will take a swing on him. Ken...

To Edm: Zadina + Leddy (50% retained)

To Det: Holloway + Kassian (cap dump) + 3rd

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

25 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

To Edm: Zadina + Leddy (50% retained)

To Det: Holloway + Kassian (cap dump) + 3rd

 

I'd even throw in a second-rounder if it meant getting Holloway.

[bIueadams 776]

Kassian can be the new McCarty. That guy coach points at and says "that's what happens if u don't cool it" when Raymond shows up to practice hungover.