2020 Offseason

[arag 308]

The real reason Yzerman acquired Staal. To do just that.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Because Markstrom will not be any better in his 30s than Howard was. Probably worse. But if someone is so blinded by the "anyone but Howard" rhetoric, then they'll think ANYTHING is better. It isn't. Overpaying for a goalie, just because he isn't Howard, is dumb.

Who will be better going forward? Never mind "in his 30's"... Do you think it's likely that Howard at 36-39 will be better than Markstrom at 30-33? I don't, and I don't really think you do either. So what are arguing here?

Literally every single goaltender in the NHL (including backups) was better than Howard last season, so the "anybody but Howard" rhetoric makes some sense...

Again, I'd prefer one of the cheaper options, but Markstrom, even at $6M would be a significant enough upgrade over Howard to be worth it. I just don't want 6 years. 4x$6M would be ideal. That way he's around long enough to mentor some of the younger guys (Larsson / Petruzzelli), but not too long that we see a drastic decline.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, F.Michael said:

It’s not so much that he’d be ‘bad’ for the Red Wings - it’s just that he’s always benefited by having a good defensive partner, and a better group of players as a whole.

I could see his numbers drop like what we had seen with Mike Green.

 I’d rather see Grand Master Y pass on Krug.

Yeah, I think his numbers would definitely take a hit, due to lesser talent around him, but I also think it will inevitably decline in the not too distant future anyway. If Krug were 4 years younger, or we were 4 years further into this rebuild, I'd be all for signing Krug. Unfortunately, we're a minimum of three years away from being legit contenders (if everything goes right), and Krug likely only has about three really good years in him before he starts to decline. If we were to sign Krug to a 7-8 year contract, I could see the latter half of that contract looking really bad...

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I don't hate the trade or anything, but I always love these stories about how good a person some player is, but they deliberately downplay how bad they suck as a player. Regardless of how good this dude is supposed to be in the locker room, he sucks. He's WAY past his usefulness. I'm happy with the 2nd rounder, but let's not kid ourselves, he's not any better than an Ericsson or a Daley.

Filppula/Nemeth = Gagner/Staal. It's the same thing. Just plugging holes while obviously tanking. Pretty sure the "culture" of the team was not worse off in the hands of Filppula, Helm, Abby, Ericsson, and Daley (who have all won Cups) and Green, Nemeth, Dekeyer (who are all quality veterans) than it will be in the hands of Staal and Gagner, guys who have collectively won jack s*** in the NHL.

It's a one year contract, and we already acquired one 2nd round pick, with the potential of adding another mid round pick at next year's trade deadline. I think he will prove to be an upgrade over Ericsson / Daley, but even if he's not, it's still a worthwhile trade to acquire the asset(s). There's literally nothing to complain about, but here we are...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

8 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I don't hate the trade or anything, but I always love these stories about how good a person some player is, but they deliberately downplay how bad they suck as a player. Regardless of how good this dude is supposed to be in the locker room, he sucks. He's WAY past his usefulness. I'm happy with the 2nd rounder, but let's not kid ourselves, he's not any better than an Ericsson or a Daley.

Filppula/Nemeth = Gagner/Staal. It's the same thing. Just plugging holes while obviously tanking. Pretty sure the "culture" of the team was not worse off in the hands of Filppula, Helm, Abby, Ericsson, and Daley (who have all won Cups) and Green, Nemeth, Dekeyer (who are all quality veterans) than it will be in the hands of Staal and Gagner, guys who have collectively won jack s*** in the NHL.

What are you saying here exactly? That off-season Detroit News articles are stupid? Hot take!

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/high-cap-low-salary-nhlers-to-ottawa.2780874/

 

Someone made a list of players with actual less  money to be paid compared to their cap hit .... i noticed derek stepan , i know arizona is desperate for picks since they only pick in the 4th round

im torn cause i dont want to give up any of our first 6 picks but if their desperate enough what if we gave up the sj 3rd for a 2020 2nd and stepan? Surely odds are theyd miss the playoffs and that pick will be a top 45 pick at least and maybe we can recoup a 3rd for 2021 when we trade him at the deadline or a 4/5 but we’ll get something

Also from the list id take alzner and bury him for a 2020 2nd and mete/juulsen

brendan smith for 2020 2nd and bury him

Edited September 28, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[LeftWinger 4,962]

16 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Here is your answer. This is all I was getting at. Markstrom is a better option than Howard going forward.

 

Markstrom IS the better option and he will push Bernier for the job. Probably win it too...we sign Markstrom, then re-sign Bernier cheaper or maybe have another option after this season.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Can one of you geniuses explain to me how much cap space the Wings actually have? Does the projected 27.5M on Capfriendly include Z's LTIR or do we get that additional 6M in relief, making the cap space more like 33.5M.

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

What are you saying here exactly? That off-season Detroit News articles are stupid? Hot take!

That the Red Wings are deliberately tanking again, and that all this talk about guys being "good for the culture" or "filling a hole in our defense" or how we're trying to "ice a competitive team" is window dressing. Staal and Gagner suck, and they are being gifted roster spots specifically because they suck.  Their locker room presence or veteran leadership qualities or whatever is just massive spin.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

That the Red Wings are deliberately tanking again, and that all this talk about guys being "good for the culture" or "filling a hole in our defense" or how we're trying to "ice a competitive team" is window dressing. Staal and Gagner suck, and they are being gifted roster spots specifically because they suck.  Their locker room presence or veteran leadership qualities or whatever is just massive spin.

 Yes. A massive spin by crappy Detroit writers. What else is new. If you're inferring that Yzerman, or anyone here on LGWs assumes Stall is anything more than a warm body then it looks like you're reaching just to complain. 

We all assumed Yzerman was going to sign one or two crappy stop-gap blueliners. 

Also, the Wright draft is coming in two years. He'll be tanking then too. 

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

25 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Can one of you geniuses explain to me how much cap space the Wings actually have? Does the projected 27.5M on Capfriendly include Z's LTIR or do we get that additional 6M in relief, making the cap space more like 33.5M.

Yup we can activate his ltir when season starts thus having 33.5 mill in cap space , let the garbage collection commence

Edited September 28, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Just now, nyqvististhefuture said:

Yup we can activate his ltir when season starts thus having 33.5 mill in cap space , let the garbage collecting begin

Cool.

So when we sign Krug (7), Markstrom (6) Mantha (6) Bertuzzi (5.5) Ehen (1.5)  Erne (1.5) we'll have about 6 left to take on more poop. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

8 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That the Red Wings are deliberately tanking again, and that all this talk about guys being "good for the culture" or "filling a hole in our defense" or how we're trying to "ice a competitive team" is window dressing. Staal and Gagner suck, and they are being gifted roster spots specifically because they suck.  Their locker room presence or veteran leadership qualities or whatever is just massive spin.

Yup they suck and are horrible players , tanking 2.0 coming up

[LeftWinger 4,962]

47 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/high-cap-low-salary-nhlers-to-ottawa.2780874/

 

Someone made a list of players with actual less  money to be paid compared to their cap hit .... i noticed derek stepan , i know arizona is desperate for picks since they only pick in the 4th round

im torn cause i dont want to give up any of our first 6 picks but if their desperate enough what if we gave up the sj 3rd for a 2020 2nd and stepan? Surely odds are theyd miss the playoffs and that pick will be a top 45 pick at least and maybe we can recoup a 3rd for 2021 when we trade him at the deadline or a 4/5 but we’ll get something

Also from the list id take alzner and bury him for a 2020 2nd and mete/juulsen

brendan smith for 2020 2nd and bury him

I would absolutely help Arizona out by taking Stepan, but they'd have to give us something else to help them out. They don't have much in picks, we may not be able to get that 2022 1st rounder, unless it was lottery protected, but maybe we could grab a prospect...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

Cool.

So when we sign Krug (7), Markstrom (6) Mantha (6) Bertuzzi (5.5) Ehen (1.5)  Erne (1.5) we'll have about 6 left to take on more poop. 

Naooo , we need more $ for poop , krug 34-37 yrs old? No mercie ... markstrom x6-7? No mercie ... ehn 1.5? Damn

we’re getting so much poop

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 Yes. A massive spin by crappy Detroit writers. What else is new. If you're inferring that Yzerman, or anyone here on LGWs assumes Stall is anything more than a warm body then it looks like you're reaching just to complain. 

We all assumed Yzerman was going to sign one or two crappy stop-gap blueliners. 

Also, the Wright draft is coming in two years. He'll be tanking then too. 

 

I don't know why you keep referencing writers. They're all just quoting Yzerman's press conference. HE'S the one spinning this. He's the one that talked about "the culture" and "veteran leadership" and "filling holes in the defense". And it's not as though I expected us to be good. Though if we're going to be bad I might rather see Cholowski or Lindstrom in that LD spot, and Rasmussen or Veleno in the center spot. At least they have the ability to get better as the season progresses. Which is more fun for me as a fan, rather than watching Mark Staal slowly decay on ice.

Edited September 28, 2020 by kipwinger

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I would absolutely help Arizona out by taking Stepan, but they'd have to give us something else to help them out. They don't have much in picks, we may not be able to get that 2022 1st rounder, unless it was lottery protected, but maybe we could grab a prospect...

Problem is they dont have anything they lost picks for the workout scandal bs and pick 4th this year 

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't know why you keep referencing writers. They're all just quoting Yzerman's press conference. HE'S the one spinning this. He's the one that talked about "the culture" and "veteran leadership" and "filling holes in the defense". And it's not as though I expected us to be good. Though if we're going to be bad I might rather see Cholowski or Lindstrom in that LD spot, and Rasmussen or Veleno in the center spot.

With you on wanting to see more kids in the lineup but sadly looks like they’ll be buried again unless we find a taker for a helm, bury abdelkader.... dont take on anymore bad contracts , cut erne,ehn,perlini,hirose etc... off the bat

looks like one more year of “seasoning” ... if your not 23 dont bother us

Edited September 28, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Naooo , we need more $ for poop , krug 34-37 yrs old? No mercie ... markstrom x6-7? No mercie ... ehn 1.5? Damn

we’re getting so much poop

Draft Perfetti, sign Krug, sign Markstrom. U explode. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Draft Perfetti, sign Krug, sign Markstrom. U explode. 

Perfetti alone will make that happen

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't know why you keep referencing writers. They're all just quoting Yzerman's press conference. HE'S the one spinning this. He's the one that talked about "the culture" and "veteran leadership" and "filling holes in the defense". And it's not as though I expected us to be good. Though if we're going to be bad I might rather see Cholowski or Lindstrom in that LD spot, and Rasmussen or Veleno in the center spot.

In that article, all Yzerman says is "plugs a hole" "good size" "solid defender" "good PKer" "been in the league a long time".  

I have no idea why you're on this train to be honest. Other then to complain. Which is fine. 

Yzerman is 100% actually doing what everyone is asking him to do with his cap space. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

In that article, all Yzerman says is "plugs a hole" "good size" "solid defender" "good PKer" "been in the league a long time".  

I have no idea why you're on this train to be honest. Other then to complain. Which is fine. 

Yzerman is 100% actually doing what everyone is asking him to do with his cap space. 

You should just watch the presser. He said all the stuff I said he did. But again, I'm not complaining about the trade. I'm bummed that we're deliberately tanking again because as a fan it blows watching a team be awful on purpose. If the opening night roster doesn't have Mark Staal on it, and he's the 7th dman or in the AHL or something, then I'll be more than pleased. I'm just taking Steve-O's word for it, because in the presser he said they traded for Staal intending for him to play. Same with Gagner. I'm fully aware that he isn't some big problem relative to all the other issues with the team. But the prospect of watching a team with Helm, Abby, Nielsen, Glendening, Filppula AND now Gagner too is stomach turning. There's just not a lot to be excited about as a fan this year and I had hoped that last year was as bad as it was gonna get.

Edited September 28, 2020 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yzerman is 100% actually doing what everyone is asking him to do with his cap space. 

THIS!

This is exactly what Yzerman should be doing with his cap space. Weaponize it to gain future assets. If he didn't do that, people would complain. He does that, and people still complain.

We're still at least three months away from next season, and people are already complaining about the roster construction. What is Yzerman supposed to do with all of Holland's bad contracts? All he can do, is wait for them to expire, or trade (retain) or buyout in the final year. This was a great trade for the future of this team. I hope we see at least one or two more just like this. Let's add another s*** player like Eriksson or Steen or whoever...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You should just watch the presser. He said all the stuff I said he did. But again, I'm not complaining about the trade. I'm bummed that we're deliberately tanking again because as a fan it blows watching a team be awful on purpose. If the opening night roster doesn't have Mark Staal on it, and he's the 7th dman or in the AHL or something, then I'll be more than pleased. I'm just taking Steve-O's word for it, because in the presser he said they traded for Staal intending for him to play. Same with Gagner. I'm fully aware that he isn't some big problem relative to all the other issues with the team. But the prospect of watching a team with Helm, Abby, Nielsen, Glendening, Filppula AND now Gagner too is stomach turning. There's just not a lot to be excited about as a fan this year and I had hoped that last year was as bad as it was gonna get.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm right there with you. 

Something to consider: with how screwed up this coming season is likely to be, combined with how screwed up the offseason has been especially for young players/prospects, it's entirely likely that Yzerman is being cautious about filling to many holes with kids at least to start the season. From reading people's comments here it seems no one wants to plug holes with expensive free agents either. The results? Another terrible plug-ridden roster with far far far away tunnel light. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You should just watch the presser. He said all the stuff I said he did. But again, I'm not complaining about the trade. I'm bummed that we're deliberately tanking again because as a fan it blows watching a team be awful on purpose. If the opening night roster doesn't have Mark Staal on it, and he's the 7th dman or in the AHL or something, then I'll be more than pleased. I'm just taking Steve-O's word for it, because in the presser he said they traded for Staal intending for him to play. Same with Gagner. I'm fully aware that he isn't some big problem relative to all the other issues with the team. But the prospect of watching a team with Helm, Abby, Nielsen, Glendening, Filppula AND now Gagner too is stomach turning. There's just not a lot to be excited about as a fan this year and I had hoped that last year was as bad as it was gonna get.

That list doesnt even include Ehn,erne,perlini haha and more bad ones for assets are coming

some will be demoted/let go or dealt ... thats just way too much garbage 

[kipwinger 8,524]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

THIS!

This is exactly what Yzerman should be doing with his cap space. Weaponize it to gain future assets. If he didn't do that, people would complain. He does that, and people still complain.

We're still at least three months away from next season, and people are already complaining about the roster construction. What is Yzerman supposed to do with all of Holland's bad contracts? All he can do, is wait for them to expire, or trade (retain) or buyout in the final year. This was a great trade for the future of this team. I hope we see at least one or two more just like this. Let's add another s*** player like Eriksson or Steen or whoever...

For the millionth time, I'm not bothered by the trade. I'm bothered that he intends to play Staal, specifically to tank, and is trying to paint a silver lining by talking about veteran leadership and culture and blah blah blah. I have ZERO issue with using the cap space to get future assets. I have a big problem with a defense made up of Dekeyser, Nemeth, Staal, and not Cholowski or Lindstrom.