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Gniwder

Tony DeAngelo

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9 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

I doubt the Rags organization cares to discriminate against TDA over his social political beliefs. However, social media presence was issue there. To the point that they instructed him to log off and end his account. Really really dumb on his part. Guy his age should know - especially as a public figure - you're gonna get put through the ringer and possibly lose business if you pop off online.

I would take Evander Kane in a heart beat. I disagree with a lot of his politics, and his gambling issues seem to be a big problem. But he's got swagger and can play. That's all I really need from him personally. Then we can assemble a dark army of black players and ice the fab 5. Long shorts, black socks, and we can put Fubu on the helmets. Baller.

Every single team in the NHL gives every one of their players media training, and are willing/able to punish players who do not abide by their media code of conduct. The Rangers and Deangelo are no different. Again, he was not being discriminated against based on his political opinions.

Remember when Dylan Larkin said (during an interview) that he'd rather have time off instead of play in the all-star game? And then, about 24 hours later, he apologized to the sport, league, and team and anyone else he could think of in another interview? Why do you suppose he did that? Because behind the scenes someone said "don't f*cking say s*** like that to the media". And he learned.

Deangelo's problem is that incidents with him being a prick are pretty much a reoccuring thing. If he's not pissing of teammates or coaches then he's pissing off the front office types. And he's not good enough to justify the headache. This is the same reason Colin Kaepernick doesn't have a job. He's not a good enough football player to justify the headache most organizations will have to deal with if they give him a job. If Deangelo were Victor Hedman he could say whatever the hell he wanted to say.

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Every single team in the NHL gives every one of their players media training, and are willing/able to punish players who do not abide by their media code of conduct. The Rangers and Deangelo are no different. Again, he was not being discriminated against based on his political opinions.

Remember when Dylan Larkin said (during an interview) that he'd rather have time off instead of play in the all-star game? And then, about 24 hours later, he apologized to the sport, league, and team and anyone else he could think of in another interview? Why do you suppose he did that? Because behind the scenes someone said "don't f*cking say s*** like that to the media". And he learned.

Deangelo's problem is that incidents with him being a prick are pretty much a reoccuring thing. If he's not pissing of teammates or coaches then he's pissing off the front office types. And he's not good enough to justify the headache. This is the same reason Colin Kaepernick doesn't have a job. He's not a good enough football player to justify the headache most organizations will have to deal with if they give him a job. If Deangelo were Victor Hedman he could say whatever the hell he wanted to say.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think the Rags give a rats behind what political opinions ADA has. But they do care how he engages with fans online on his public account, despite what the topic might be. I mean he was getting into twitter skirmishes with fans and even threatened to meet a fan at MSG to throw down lol. Clearly his social media presence was a problem for the organization - understandably so - which was why the forced him to log off.

As I detailed earlier in the thread, it just seemed to me like ADA was finally starting to clean his act up and grow up a bit. Most of his suspensions are from his OHL/TBL/ARI days. Pretty sure he didn't have any for two seasons now with the Rangers. Like he had put that behind him. Now this summer they finally got him off twitter. Then he had the bad start to the season, yelled at an official, got benched, and the wheels seemed to all come off at once.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll always be a south philly blowhard no matter what you do. Or maybe he's a late bloomer maturity wise, and this was just a fatal hiccup on that road. IDK.

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13 minutes ago, 13dangledangle said:

I agree with this.  I dont believe everyone hates him, I think like you said on any team there are players that obviously wont be best friends, or friends at all and thats ok.  Tony is a risk/reward guy, but considering how our "kids" are going to be making up the majority of our roster for the next while I dont think its in the best interest of their development to take that risk on him, he may have a negative impact on the build.

Sure sure, that's obviously the risk with a player like him. We're just so crappy and so uninspired that I'd pretty much welcome any decent player with some spunk and fight in him at this point.

The rebuild thing - IDK - I don't think our young players are that good at this point. Like Hudler and Filppula, or Tatar and Nyquist after them. They'll be gone quicker than I think anyone might suspect. Hell we're already talking about moving on from Mantha. I'm looking more toward Seider, Raymond, and future drafts at this point. Guys that won't be on the roster for multiple years. In the meantime I'd give ADA a reclamation project chance on a low dollar low term contract. If he's cancer man just waive him and move on...

 

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1 minute ago, Gniwder said:

Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think the Rags give a rats behind what political opinions ADA has. But they do care how he engages with fans online on his public account, despite what the topic might be. I mean he was getting into twitter skirmishes with fans and even threatened to meet a fan at MSG to throw down lol. Clearly his social media presence was a problem for the organization - understandably so - which was why the forced him to log off.

As I detailed earlier in the thread, it just seemed to me like ADA was finally starting to clean his act up and grow up a bit. Most of his suspensions are from his OHL/TBL/ARI days. Pretty sure he didn't have any for two seasons now with the Rangers. Like he had put that behind him. Now this summer they finally got him off twitter. Then he had the bad start to the season, yelled at an official, got benched, and the wheels seemed to all come off at once.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll always be a south philly blowhard no matter what you do. Or maybe he's a late bloomer maturity wise, and this was just a fatal hiccup on that road. IDK.

Yeah, IDK either. But like I said before, I think that first and foremost this is a hockey decision. DeAngelo just isn't good enough to be this big of a pain in the ass. He definitely could help himself by shutting the f*ck up. But in lieu of that, he could just play defense a little bit and nobody would care what he says or does off the ice. It's much harder to ignore him b.s. when he's got one point, and is -6, in six games to start the season. He'll get another job, for sure, but if he washes out after that then his career will be done.

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2 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

Sure sure, that's obviously the risk with a player like him. We're just so crappy and so uninspired that I'd pretty much welcome any decent player with some spunk and fight in him at this point.

The rebuild thing - IDK - I don't think our young players are that good at this point. Like Hudler and Filppula, or Tatar and Nyquist after them. They'll be gone quicker than I think anyone might suspect. Hell we're already talking about moving on from Mantha. I'm looking more toward Seider, Raymond, and future drafts at this point. Guys that won't be on the roster for multiple years. In the meantime I'd give ADA a reclamation project chance on a low dollar low term contract. If he's cancer man just waive him and move on...

 

Yeah I’m not big on any of our current young gunz either aside from, hopefully that is, Zadina.  I was more thinking as we bring in Seider, Raymond, Berggren, Niederbach.

The upside IF DeAngelo did workout though would be a massive boost for us.  I honestly don’t see Yzerman pulling the trigger though, he just seems to be the opposite of the character guys he likes to bring in.  

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5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, IDK either. But like I said before, I think that first and foremost this is a hockey decision. DeAngelo just isn't good enough to be this big of a pain in the ass. He definitely could help himself by shutting the f*ck up. But in lieu of that, he could just play defense a little bit and nobody would care what he says or does off the ice. It's much harder to ignore him b.s. when he's got one point, and is -6, in six games to start the season. He'll get another job, for sure, but if he washes out after that then his career will be done.

Sure I think it would be very smart to shelter ADA behind Hronek and future Seider. Deploy him only in the Ozone. Let him QB your PP.

Seider and Hronek can both eat the hard 22-24 minutes a night. Give DeAngelo the remaining 12-16. Let him boost his O numbers like he's good at. But get the cost payoff from his low ice time and jerk discount.

1 minute ago, 13dangledangle said:

Yeah I’m not big on any of our current young gunz either aside from, hopefully that is, Zadina.  I was more thinking as we bring in Seider, Raymond, Berggren, Niederbach.

The upside IF DeAngelo did workout though would be a massive boost for us.  I honestly don’t see Yzerman pulling the trigger though, he just seems to be the opposite of the character guys he likes to bring in.  

And don't get me wrong, I trust Yzerman here. He drafted and traded the guy. He know's DeAngelo - albeit a younger DeAngelo - better than most.

In his shoes I would simply just walk down to Marc Staal's locker and ask him what he thinks ADA these days. Can he handle being on a losing team like this one? If that answer is no I think you pass on him pretty easily.

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3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I know you'll trip over yourself to make the case that some right-winger is being mistreated but it's simply not the case here. Everyone in the know, including Deangelo, has said they don't believe that his political/social beliefs had anything to do with it. So just stop.

Deangelo was waived because he's a prick. Staal said that despite being a good guy, Deangelo goes over the line yelling at coaches and refs. We all know that Deangelo smarted off to a young goalie who just made a critical mistake (costing his team the game) and got punched for it. You're not going to get far in the NHL if you alienate teammates, coaches, and refs. This is EXACTLY the same problem that Evander Kane has, and he's fairly left-wing. Yet you're not out here making up false narratives about how Kane is being "mislabeled" or whatever.

Evander Kane was never brought up in this conversation. Would have no reason to mention him. Don't know what 'opinions' DeAngelo even has. Only know he was accused of racist ones that can't be proven. Dont care what his opinions are. Dont care about Kane's either. If either could be had dor nothing, and it makes the team better, I am all for it.

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19 hours ago, Gniwder said:

But what if he denies covid?

Racism is a dead meme. We killed it in the 90s and then brought it back in the 2000s strictly for the lols. But it's too overplayed at this point. It's 2020 and denying covid is in.

Would you want a covid denier on this team? Cause DeAngelo is at the cutting edge of covid denialism. I find this to be problematic. As a public sports figure he has a duty not to refute medical science publicly. What if influences fans to not take precautions? What if it leads to the team getting sick? People could die.

What does this have anything to do with DeAngelo?

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2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ok. I disagree with him. But I still dont care what his opinions are. He's still worth a shot.

But his covid negligence could put the entire team at risk

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2 hours ago, Gniwder said:

Sure sure, that's obviously the risk with a player like him. We're just so crappy and so uninspired that I'd pretty much welcome any decent player with some spunk and fight in him at this point.

 

This

Just now, Gniwder said:

But his covid negligence could put the entire team at risk

Wasnt aware he could skirt the league's CoVid protocols they have in place to protect everyone.

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3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Wasnt aware he could skirt the league's CoVid protocols they have in place to protect everyone.

Not entirely sure I what those protocols are TBH
Didn't bother to look since Covid is indeed a giant Chinese HO AXE

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46 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Evander Kane was never brought up in this conversation. Would have no reason to mention him. Don't know what 'opinions' DeAngelo even has. Only know he was accused of racist ones that can't be proven. Dont care what his opinions are. Dont care about Kane's either. If either could be had dor nothing, and it makes the team better, I am all for it.

No s***. I brought up Kane in an effort to show that irrespective of your "opinions", when you act like an prick you tend to have trouble with NHL teams. You're trying to make it seem like DeAngelo was waived because of his "opinions" and not because he's an egregious d*ck who alienates teammates, coaches, refs, and fans alike.

As far  as racist accusations, he was accused by ONE blogger, who was immediately rebuffed by basically everyone in the know including the black teammate in question, the NYR management and coaching staff, former teammates, and Deangelo himself.

You're insinuating there was this widespread effort to falsely paint DeAngelo as a racist, presumably because he's a right winger, and that simply didn't happen. DeAngelo wasn't waived, told to stop tweeting, etc., because he has right-wing opinions. He has told to stop tweeting and waived because he's an assh*le. You're just conflating the two because you're constantly trying to advance this narrative that right-wingers are being victimized by the libs, or the media, or cancel culture or whomever. Stick to hockey.

21 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

DeAngelo is exactly the kind of risks the team should be taking. What's the worst that could happen? It makes the team worse? 

And you don't even have to say anything 'racist' in this day and age to be accused of being one. Just having certain social and political opinions makes it automatic. And once you're accused, it doesnt matter after that.

Unless your name is 'Tom Brady'.

See. You're the one that insinuated that DeAngelo was falsely being accused of racism than that his reputation was tarnished by it. See the above.

Edited by kipwinger

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25 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Wasnt aware he could skirt the league's CoVid protocols they have in place to protect everyone.

Were you not paying attention when like half of the Washington Capitals team skirted COVID protocols because they wanted to hang out in each other's hotel rooms and ended up infecting their teammates?

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38 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

No s***. I brought up Kane in an effort to show that irrespective of your "opinions", when you act like an prick you tend to have trouble with NHL teams. You're trying to make it seem like DeAngelo was waived because of his "opinions" and not because he's an egregious d*ck who alienates teammates, coaches, refs, and fans alike.

As far  as racist accusations, he was accused by ONE blogger, who was immediately rebuffed by basically everyone in the know including the black teammate in question, the NYR management and coaching staff, former teammates, and Deangelo himself.

You're insinuating there was this widespread effort to falsely paint DeAngelo as a racist, presumably because he's a right winger, and that simply didn't happen. DeAngelo wasn't waived, told to stop tweeting, etc., because he has right-wing opinions. He has told to stop tweeting and waived because he's an assh*le. You're just conflating the two because you're constantly trying to advance this narrative that right-wingers are being victimized by the libs, or the media, or cancel culture or whomever. Stick to hockey.

See. You're the one that insinuated that DeAngelo was falsely being accused of racism than that his reputation was tarnished by it. See the above.

Agree with bolded.
Disagree with underlined.

Not sure how much you traffic twitter, reddit, or HF boards... but there's been a pretty widespread effort by fans to paint him as a racist for a while now, despite really no evidence of it. The twitter thing has been going on for a while now. Those 3 sites tend to lean pretty far left, so you pretty much get the classic: "He likes DJT. DJT = Hitler. Therefore ADA = nazi" logic, if I can put it so plainly. A lot of vitriol. At least that's what I've seen in my experience.

You'll have to remind me on the Kane situation, it's been a while. But didn't the whole lockerroom/temmates turn on him? That cancer got traded for a good return. Then he had more problems in Buffalo and got traded for return again.

I think no one having cap or actual money this year really helped DeAngelo get passed on. Maybe NYR should have handled the asset a literal differently given the circumstances. But hey they promised to waive and made good on it. I N T E G R I T Y

 

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

See. You're the one that insinuated that DeAngelo was falsely being accused of racism than that his reputation was tarnished by it. See the above.

Because he was. And it's not a stretch to conclude that the accusations stemmed from his political views. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. But let's not pretend like it doesn't happen. Tom Brady was just vilified at the Super Bowl because a MAGA hat was seen in his locker 4 years ago. And then falsely accused of a slur by an opposing black player during the game. But I'm sure his political views had NOTHING to do with that.

 

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

You're insinuating there was this widespread effort to falsely paint DeAngelo as a racist, presumably because he's a right winger, and that simply didn't happen. DeAngelo wasn't waived, told to stop tweeting, etc., because he has right-wing opinions. He has told to stop tweeting and waived because he's an assh*le. You're just conflating the two because you're constantly trying to advance this narrative that right-wingers are being victimized by the libs, or the media, or cancel culture or whomever. Stick to hockey.

I never said he was WAIVED or disciplined because of his opinions or politics. 

I insinuated there were allegations because there were. Widespread or not, people have been ruined by far less.

And I insinuated that the allegations of racism were influenced by his politics. Nothing to earth shattering there. If DeAngelo said/posted/tweeted anything expressing right wing opinions or support for Trump, he is guilty of any number of prejudices by association.

I also insinuated that false allegations of racism can and do hurt a person's reputation. Because they do. Was this specifically why he was cut? Not likely. But let's not pretend that it didn't hurt matters. It created more drama than what was already there. It added to the problem.

And finally: Think about it. Why would such allegations be directed towards this specific person? If false, what would motivate someone to accuse him of it? His politics perhaps?

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2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Because he was. And it's not a stretch to conclude that the accusations stemmed from his political views. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. But let's not pretend like it doesn't happen. Tom Brady was just vilified at the Super Bowl because a MAGA hat was seen in his locker 4 years ago. And then falsely accused of a slur by an opposing black player during the game. But I'm sure his political views had NOTHING to do with that.

 

I never said he was WAIVED or disciplined because of his opinions or politics. 

I insinuated there were allegations because there were. Widespread or not, people have been ruined by far less.

And I insinuated that the allegations of racism were influenced by his politics. Nothing to earth shattering there. If DeAngelo said/posted/tweeted anything expressing right wing opinions or support for Trump, he is guilty of any number of prejudices by association.

I also insinuated that false allegations of racism can and do hurt a person's reputation. Because they do. Was this specifically why he was cut? Not likely. But let's not pretend that it didn't hurt matters. It created more drama than what was already there. It added to the problem.

And finally: Think about it. Why would such allegations be directed towards this specific person? If false, what would motivate someone to accuse him of it? His politics perhaps?

I'm fully aware that people are discriminated against for their political opinions all the time. But that wasn't the case with Tony DeAngelo. You keep trying to make a case that isn't there. He was the first one to come out and acknowledge that none of this had anything to do with his right-wing views. Not a single bad thing happened to Tony DeAngelo because he's right-wing, despite how hard you're trying to paint him as a victim. Some (internet) people, sometimes, discriminating against some people for their political views is NOT evidence that Tony DeAngelo was discriminated against for his. He has consistently been his own worst enemy, despite his political views, and it's pathetic that you're trying to turn this into a part of your crusade against #Libs/Media/CancelCulture.

The internet is a false reality. There are a few thousand people on the internet that think the world is run by lizard people. That DOES NOT mean that lizard people ideology is mainstream or pervasive. Similarly, just because some fans think DeAngelo is a dick because he's right-wing DOES NOT mean that he's suffered ANY negative effects from his right-views. His repuation (which you're weirdly worried about) wasn't tarnished. On the contrary, pretty much everyone (from his teammates to the team that just waived him) came to his defense against the fallacious rumor.

 

Edited by kipwinger

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3 hours ago, Gniwder said:

Agree with bolded.
Disagree with underlined.

Not sure how much you traffic twitter, reddit, or HF boards... but there's been a pretty widespread effort by fans to paint him as a racist for a while now, despite really no evidence of it. The twitter thing has been going on for a while now. Those 3 sites tend to lean pretty far left, so you pretty much get the classic: "He likes DJT. DJT = Hitler. Therefore ADA = nazi" logic, if I can put it so plainly. A lot of vitriol. At least that's what I've seen in my experience.

You'll have to remind me on the Kane situation, it's been a while. But didn't the whole lockerroom/temmates turn on him? That cancer got traded for a good return. Then he had more problems in Buffalo and got traded for return again.

I think no one having cap or actual money this year really helped DeAngelo get passed on. Maybe NYR should have handled the asset a literal differently given the circumstances. But hey they promised to waive and made good on it. I N T E G R I T Y

 

To paraphrase what I said to Neo above, people saying things on the internet IS NOT representative of anything at all. A handful of years ago there was a pretty "widespread effort" to vote John Scott into the All-Star game. That should not be taken as evidence that hockey fans suddenly had a newfound respect for John Scott's skill. It does, however, indicate that boredom and anonymity are a deadly combination that often lead (otherwise reasonable) people to say stupid/do stupid s***.

Tony DeAngelo is not the victim of some left-wing mob cancel-culturing him out of a job. He's a victim of the fact that he's an obnoxious assh*le who doesn't seem to know the value of occasionally ingratiating yourself to others (i.e. being polite irrespective or your actual feelings).

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2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

To paraphrase what I said to Neo above, people saying things on the internet IS NOT representative of anything at all. A handful of years ago there was a pretty "widespread effort" to vote John Scott into the All-Star game. That should not be taken as evidence that hockey fans suddenly had a newfound respect for John Scott's skill. It does, however, indicate that boredom and anonymity are a deadly combination that often lead (otherwise reasonable) people to say stupid/do stupid s***.

Tony DeAngelo is not the victim of some left-wing mob cancel-culturing him out of a job. He's a victim of the fact that he's an obnoxious assh*le who doesn't seem to know the value of occasionally ingratiating yourself to others (i.e. being polite irrespective or your actual feelings).

Just commenting on the current internet zeitgeist.

Again, I don't think NYR canceled him at all for his politics. They said as much, and they're much too smart for that anyway.

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I will say this, if I were Steve Yzerman I would inquire and see what it would take to get him, and then I would do a face to face with him and just get a read. If Yzerman truly believes that they as an organization can keep him in check (ie. Randy Moss in New England) I wouldn't hate the move. If he gets the vibe that it would blow up (ie. TO in Philly) I would pass.

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4 hours ago, kliq said:

I will say this, if I were Steve Yzerman I would inquire and see what it would take to get him, and then I would do a face to face with him and just get a read. If Yzerman truly believes that they as an organization can keep him in check (ie. Randy Moss in New England) I wouldn't hate the move. If he gets the vibe that it would blow up (ie. TO in Philly) I would pass.

My biggest concern is not that he's gonna "ruin the culture" (not that we even have one) or be overly abrasive to teammates (these losers could use some abrasion).

My biggest concern would be the reports that "he handles losing badly". This team is still gonna do a lot of losing even with him on it. If that's the case then he's probably indeed going to be a handful for management and coaches. Yzerman probably doesn't want to deal with it, but I'd sorta like to see someone get under Blashill's skin TBH... lol. But then who knows, maybe if DeAngelo flips out in the lockerroom after our 5th loss in a row it actually lights some fires under some butts....

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The Red Wings are 4/58 on the PP this season....most of which were 1 goal games. Tony DeAngelo is a power play point producer. It was stupid not to claim him for free (maybe there was a reason, like maybe trying to get another asset or retained salary) and it is ridiculous not to trade for him. His value is low, it wouldn't cost much to get him. The Rangers were bad last year too, so it could be possible he would bring his point potential with him, although our s***ty coaches would probably put an end to those points.  However, he would be the best D we have right now. I really could care less about ANOTHER year at the best shot at #1. I am done with that crap. If we got Hughes or Power that would be great, but I think they will be available at 4 or 5 anyhow. I mean add one of those to a group that includes Seider, Hronek and Deangelo? Come on man! Maybe it's something that can be addressed at the TDL or in the summer, but his value will rise in time, no matter what his opinions are. He shoulo've been claimed off waivers IMO...but I too would've claimed Galchenyuk. I wonder what Toronto's idea was there? He could've been had for free, but after he cleared they traded two assets to Carolina for him. That's it. No extra assets or retained salary.

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