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Posted by number9 on 25 September 2014 - 05:37 PM
Monahan made the Flames and could focus fully on hockey, nobody took cheapshots or borderline hits against him and guess why ? People FEAR McGrattan as every cheapshot artist = rat should. The point of the matter is this Pasha is by far the best player on this team he is wasting his last years on a team that doesn't stick up for each other and where the FO doesn't bring in guys that could help out. It's not just about fighting it's that whole "anti physicality" mindset that I'm questioning Downey said it best himself "hey you can hit our players but if you try to take advantage of star/weaker/smallish players someone sneaky will come around the corner..."
The last player who took liberties with Kessel was a behemoth called John Scott nobody else has done so, because nobody wants to answer to Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren. Phaneuf told Crosby to keep to clean his act up or else he would hit him in the same manner...nobody on our team is doing that and maybe just maybe there is already too much complacensy...
Ok Scuderi laid out a clean hit fine, where are the guys that say "ok it's preseason and they are playing this like regular/playoff season in terms of physicality let's hit Maataa, Kunitz ...in the same manner" there is freaking nobody. Things like this are also a bounding experience for team they rally around each other and know everyone heas each others back.
I love fighting. I like the spectacle. I love that extra dimension it gives to the sport. It's truly unique. I wish the instigator rule was not in place. I loved when their was a heavy weight matchup of Probert v. Domi, and seeing who was going to win the belt from the other. I loved that if anyone touched Yzerman Probie would immediately turn into the hulk and smash their face in, no matter what the consequences were for himself. I loved when McCarty turtled Lemieux, because I literally wanted vengeance and blood for what he did to Draper.
But here's why I think your argument stinks Frank. Everyone who I know that is pro-fighting (including myself) whines about how - since the instigator rule - the enforcers ability to protect and scare off the rats is almost completely diminished. Fighting USED to protect stars to an EXTENT, but not anymore, and that's what pisses off pro-fighting advocates and why everyone calls for the repeal of the instigator penalty.
So please, don't act like having McMeatbag on the fourth line/bench is going to protect Datsyuk. All that guy can do is instigate a revenge fight at a later time. And Scuderi can easily just say no at that time, and then we have another possible Bertuzzi-Moore situation on our hands.
If you want the culture of protective fighting you have to:
1) repeal the instigator rule
2) find a guy who can drop the gloves AND play top line minutes
3) time-travel back to the 1980s
Fighting these days is used to possibly change the mood of a game and/or to seek vengeance. And it puts fans like you and I in the stands. That's it.
Posted by ogreslayer on 20 December 2012 - 05:21 PM
Posted by Guest on 16 December 2012 - 09:06 AM
Hockey fans, take a stand, or else Bettman will continue to treat you like crap.
fixed it for you
Hockey fans, take a stand, or else both sides will continue to treat you like crap.
The players treat us like crap?
Posted by Nightfall on 14 December 2012 - 10:47 PM
You do bring up some good points so let me address them.
At least you admit the theoretical possibility of one-sided blame. Though I don't believe you for a second.
Thing is, there's an infinite number of "opportunities" to do something different in any situation. Any one has the potential to change the outcome. Why pick out one? Of course it's "certain" that starting earlier may or may not have helped, those are the only options. To justify the criticism, you should be more certain that it actually would have helped.
Beyond that, why do you blame the PA 100% for waiting? Were the owners sitting in a conference room for six months, looking at their watches, calling Fehr every hour begging him to negotiate? No, they said they were ready to start, but when the PA said they wanted to wait, the league said it was fine. What if the league had actually said, "No, we think we should start right away"? What if they'd just made a proposal anyway? The league took three weeks to make their first proposal after they started meeting. Took two weeks to make their second after the PA made their first. Neither side has been in any hurry to meet or make proposals, but you only ever mention the PA side.
Or how about this? The PA said they were willing to play without a CBA while they negotiated. The league didn't have to lockout. You'll say the PA wouldn't have negotiated, or would have waited until the end of the year an threatened to strike, but you don't actually know that. Shouldn't that count as one of your "opportunities" to resolve the situation without a work stoppage? Yet you forgive the league for that.
The one thing that is actually certain is that there will only be a deal when the two sides agree on the terms. Doesn't matter how long, or with what methods, they negotiate. One side agrees to a proposal, negotiations are done. No agreement, they keep going.
Replacing all the owners and players is never going to happen. We can replace the people that are leading these negotiations though, and that is what needs to happen. Yes, Bettman does what the owners want him to do. Same as Fehr. I believe that both people are poisonous to the negotiating process though. I believe their counsel is also poisonous to the process. A clean slate is the only way that things are going to get better. Leaving one or the other in charge is akin to this whole process repeating again down the road.
The PA already did that. Why blame the PA for the league not following suit? What if they had before now? Wouldn't that have been another "opportunity"?
Besides, when you've defended Bettman you've said basically that he's acting only at the behest of the owners. Which should mean that Fehr is acting likewise for the players. Wouldn't then the real solution be to replace all the owners and players?
Posted by Nightfall on 14 December 2012 - 04:15 PM
Restarting means firing the commissioner and the NHLPA heads. I would even like to see their deputies and counsel fired as well. You want to bring in a new method of thinking? Then you have to get rid of the existing bureaucracies.
When players, fans and even owners are sick of the guy who is running the show it is time for a change. The NHL and NHLPA don't trust each other they aren't even meeting eye to eye anymore, so the best thing to do would be a restart and therefore bring in a commissioner, who at least understands the game and isn't focused on gambles in non hockeymarkets. Also I'd love to see some play it poor owners getting their asses handed to them once the cap is gone and owners who are willing to spend are icing great teams again.
Posted by cusimano_brothers on 12 December 2012 - 07:51 PM
Bettman's mission is simple: Put a stop to labor unrest; sell the product in television's mainstream marketplace; change the violent image of the game; curb salary inflation; force enlightened self-interest on reluctant, old-fashioned owners; expand contacts with European developmental leagues and markets; settle the divisive issue of possible Olympic involvement, and help launch several new expansion teams.
Posted by haroldsnepsts on 10 December 2012 - 06:31 PM
Posted by haroldsnepsts on 07 December 2012 - 02:04 PM
That or he badly misread the situation. Either way it's not good.
while i disagree with the owner's take it or leave it approach, fehr purposely misled the public. he knew full well that the league wasn't going to accept his proposal.
Posted by Euro_Twins on 07 December 2012 - 12:22 AM
that's exactly what I asked you on the last page, whether you'd be ok with that. I'd be ok with that too. We agree, it just took us a minute.
Posted by haroldsnepsts on 06 December 2012 - 08:10 PM
That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.
"my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5
Posted by Nightfall on 26 November 2012 - 03:41 PM
Just for clarification, Bettman didn't create the environment. The owners did. He did support it only because the ownership supported it. I understand why Bettman is taking the flack for this, but at the same time there are barely anyone that is able to look deeper into this situation. Yes, Mike Illitch is supporting this lockout. Why are there no fans upset at him? I guess being the mouthpiece means that they are going to take all the flack, but thats ok I suppose.
But I refuse to give Bettman a pass on "causing the lockout" for this reason: He DID create and stubbornly support the environment that caused this lockout to happen in the last 2 CBA's. When you a situation where you can make $3.3 billion in profits AND it can also be true that (allegedly) 18 franchises are operating in the red, you have fundamental problems. If I honestly believed that setting HRR at 50/50 and just telling the players to give a little more back would solve those problems, I would turn on the NHLPA and Fehr in a heartbeat.
Mediation is non-binding, which means that what the mediator says is just a recommendation. Non-binding mediation isn't something that has teeth in my opinion. Just like back in the last lockout, the mediator put forward some great ideas but one side or the other shot them down. It really is the same as having an informed expert that has no side that is willing to put their opinion and thoughts on the subject.
It appears a Federal mediator is now involved in the CBA negotiations, per LeBrun...
Posted by StormJH1 on 26 November 2012 - 01:38 PM