Jump to content

joshy207's Photo


Member Since 19 Jun 2002
Offline Last Active Sep 01 2016 09:36 PM

#2636469 Surgery for Kyle Quincey

Posted by joshy207 on 11 November 2015 - 03:14 PM

time to make a trade for a soild top 4 no doubt now need to makes some moves if AA plays lights out do we possibly move Helm and ? for a nice repleacement for Q


...or give Marchenko a minute to see if he's capable of filling that role before you bury him back in GR.

#2633342 Is Dylan Larkin a lock to stay in the NHL beyond 9-games?

Posted by joshy207 on 26 October 2015 - 07:18 PM

Why do I get the feeling Larkin will get sent down, and Cleary comes back to Detroit?


Stop it right now, Evil Ken Holland.  Get back in your box.

#2613699 Report: Cleary wants to return for 1 more season

Posted by joshy207 on 09 June 2015 - 02:08 PM


Because prior to the 2013/14 season the Flyers offered Cleary a 3 year deal. Cleary turned it down for a 1 year deal with the Wings on a handshake agreement that he would get a deal in each of the next two off seasons (equaling the Flyers 3 year deal). Holland is simply keeping his word which he should. Signing Cleary now is not a mistake, if anything the handshake deal was the mistake.


Philly denies ever having offered any contract, only a tryout.  The only ones talking about the rumored 3-year Philly deal are Cleary and Holland.  Also, how is the "handshake deal" and "promise to take care of" Cleary allowed under the CBA?  Teams are not allowed to discuss multiple one-year deals.  Could be considered cap circumvention.

Besides, it's plainly obvious to everyone except Cleary and Holland that Cleary is DONE, and has been for 3 years.

#2567441 Marchenko recalled from GR... Ouellet sent down

Posted by joshy207 on 31 January 2015 - 03:38 PM

For picks to help their rebuild.


That would make sense if he was 33, but not if he's 23.

#2567426 Marchenko recalled from GR... Ouellet sent down

Posted by joshy207 on 31 January 2015 - 03:32 PM

If OEL is so good, why would Phoenix give up on him at age 23?

#2564300 1/18 GDT : Sabres 4 at Red Wings 6 (Z w/Hat Trick)

Posted by joshy207 on 18 January 2015 - 08:27 PM

Ericsson with the own-goal... can't fault Mrazek on that one.

#2548695 Ranking Wings Players by Draft Order

Posted by joshy207 on 12 November 2014 - 09:39 PM


IIRC, yes.  I was actually going to comment on this.  Him being listed as undrafted is a bit misleading.  He picked the Wings over many teams pursuing him.


Nothing misleading about it, DeKeyser was not drafted by an NHL team.

He, and a lot of other NCAA players, are late bloomers.  In most cases, they aren't the kids who are ready to play major junior at 16 or 17.  Major junior is usually a faster track to the pros... you're out of eligibility at 20, which would be the age of a college player in the middle of his career.  Some players benefit more from the CHL, others benefit more from the NCAA.  It's up to each player, his family, and his advisors to decide which route is better for that player.

#2548694 Ranking Wings Players by Draft Order

Posted by joshy207 on 12 November 2014 - 09:29 PM

So just for the hell of it, I ranked current Wings players based on where they were drafted in their respective draft years.  Obviously, many of these players were drafted by other teams. 


Actually, only these three were drafted by other teams...


Weiss - 4th overall   (Florida, 2001)

Cleary - 13th overall   (Chicago, 1997)

Miller - 186th overall   (Anaheim, 2003)

#2542541 Joe Louis Arena to be Demolished

Posted by joshy207 on 19 October 2014 - 07:25 PM

I'm glad to see the building go.  Yes, there have been plenty of memories and great players, but that happens at most arenas.  At some point, the building becomes outdated and renovation is not feasible.  There's no real way they could widen the seats and add leg room without gutting the whole bowl.  Can't expand the concourses either.  The sad part, to me, is that the Joe is less than 10 years older than the Palace, but they're light-years apart as far as arena quality.

Everything about the new arena says it'll be done correctly, and that's really exciting.

#2538575 Will Cleary make the roster? (poll)

Posted by joshy207 on 06 October 2014 - 03:00 PM

I think he gets his 10 games in and earns his bonus.  After that, his spot is fair game.

#2537946 Are the wings underrated?

Posted by joshy207 on 01 October 2014 - 06:49 PM


No, Nyquist was the only one that could go down without being exposed to waivers.  Anybody could be sent down.  The whole team can be sent down.  Depends on whether you're willing to waive someone.  Holland waives guys all the time.  So why didn't he do it to start last year?  Well I suspect that it has at least something to do with a coach who has EXPLICITLY made clear that until this season he preferred to have veterans in the lineup over unproven kids. 


Sorry if this point was already brought up, I haven't read the entire thread.  Holland didn't waive Samuelsson, Eaves, or Tootoo at the start of the year because he didn't have to.  They had some players already injured, so there was room on the roster and under the salary cap for all of them to stay.  That also gave him more time to try and work out a trade, which we all know didn't happen until Eaves was traded at the deadline.  Had everyone been healthy to start last year, those three would have been waived.


Also, DeKeyser could have been sent down without waivers last year, but that was not going to happen.

#2536336 Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

Posted by joshy207 on 16 September 2014 - 04:40 PM

That's less than I figured... I thought he'd get (and is worth) $2.75M to $3.5M.

#2534994 Las Vegas rumored to get an expansion team

Posted by joshy207 on 26 August 2014 - 11:59 PM

I think having a team in Vegas is a horrible idea.  It wouldn't be long before we're all speculating on where they would move.

#2534418 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by joshy207 on 17 August 2014 - 12:14 PM

"Tanking" implies losing on purpose.  Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick.  Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working.  It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away.  The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples.

The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series.  They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win.  2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders.  Yzerman was the consolation prize.



They didn't tank. They tried but went through a drought anyway. The whole notion of tanking is mostly a cap era phenomenon anyway. Therefore it's arrogant of you to just assume the Wings tanked the team in order to get a guy like Yzerman when you weren't even there. Because that's not what happened, and Stevie, even though he's heralded as such, was not the savior of this organization. He very well could have been the first coming of John Tavares had Wings not played their cards almost perfectly.


In regards to your above statements. Hindsight is 20/20. Just because we didn't win a cup those years doesn't mean the wings couldn't have. And the organization as well as most of us believed, and still do believe, they had a fair shot. Playing older vets kept younger players, like Nyquist, in the minors to build their confidence and develop their game better than they would being rushed into the NHL. Since vets, like you said, got essentially the same points that a rookie would have, there was more good done than harm.


I'm glad you're well-rounded in most sports. It means you obviously know that most hockey players aren't normally ready until 24, 26, or sometimes even 27, unlike most American sports where the ready-age is between 18 and 22. This organization is going to continue sheltering prospects as best they can until they hit those years despite anyone's impatient clamoring. Aside from the rare few who can truly squeak in at an earlier age.


Also, Wings players have routinely expressed their pleasure with Ken always putting together a veteran team. 


Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps.  I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations.


Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off.  http://www.sbnation....es-age-analysis

#2534015 What Might Have Been: Gretzky to Detroit?

Posted by joshy207 on 11 August 2014 - 02:50 PM

This was the summer after the "Goose Loonies" incident in Edmonton, which--according to a story about it I read a few months ago--crushed Demers.  He felt betrayed by a handful of his players and had wanted to bench the guys who were out drinking past curfew, but didn't want to handicap the rest of the team.  

Looking back at that roster and putting together a similar or slightly-better package, here's what I can come up with: (Please note, I have no idea who was a free agent that summer!)


To Detroit:

-C Wayne Gretzky

-D/W Marty McSorley

-C Mike Krushelnyski


Same package as offered to Los Angeles.


To Edmonton:

-C Adam Oates

-F Petr Klima

-1st round picks in '89, '91, '93

-$20M cash


Comparable deal to LA's, but Detroit gives Edmonton some more experienced players in Oates and Klima.

Oates really began to blossom in 1987-88, scoring 14-40--54 in 63 games.  Of course, Oates didn't score goals like Carson did, but "Oates and Kurri" would probably have been just as good--if not better--than "Hull and Oates".  Or at least it would have been a spicy breakfast!

Klima, while very talented, was a discipline problem (and supposedly the reason the Wings passed on Jagr in 1990) and was one of the ringleaders of the curfew-breaking crew.

I upped the cash to $20 to compensate Edmonton for taking on 2 older, more expensive players than Carson and Gelinas, who were 18 and 20 (and cheap) at the time of the trade.



Los Angeles continues to toil in the lower half of the Smythe Division with Winnipeg and Vancouver.

Edmonton does not experience the fall-off in '88-'89 that they did after trading with LA.  With a top 8 forward group of Kurri, Oates, Messier, Tikkanen, Simpson, Klima, Anderson, and MacTavish, they can roll out 2 high-scoring lines and a very solid 3rd line.  Rather than losing to Gretzky's Kings in the first round, they contend with Calgary for the Smythe championship, possibly Detroit for the Campbell championship, and possibly win another Stanley Cup.  Over the next several seasons, this trade would have made Edmonton stronger than the LA trade did.

Detroit ends up with 2 of the top 3 centers in the league for '88-'89, along with Gallant, MacLean, Krushelnyski, Barr, and Burr.  In real life, Yzerman had his career-best year playing mostly with Gallant and MacLean this season.  Having Gretzky on his team--and maybe his line--could have made that even better.  McSorley would have been a great third "Bruise Brother", especially considering Probert missed most of this season and didn't produce much when he did play.  It sure would have been an intimidating lineup to play against!  The Wings did finish first in the Norris that year, but with 80 points in 80 games, wouldn't have finished higher than 4th in any other division and were upset in the first round by a brutal Chicago team, who wouldn't have even come close to making the playoffs in any other division.  With Gretzky, Krushelnyski, and McSorley, the Wings fare better in the regular season and at least get by Chicago and St Louis before bowing out to Edmonton or Calgary in the Campbell final.  Over the next several seasons, the Wings are stronger with this trade than without, for several reasons.  1, Gretzky (duh).  2, it saves them from making a couple bad trades in the upcoming seasons--the Oates/MacLean for Federko/McKegney DEBACLE, and the Klima/Murphy/Graves/Sharples for Carson/McClelland deal.  Gretzky may have wanted to go to LA after a few years here, but the Wings would still have been able to get a nice package for him.  Graves might have been a long-time Wing, not Ranger.


Bottom line, if they were able to pull off this trade, I think the Wings would have ended up winning a Cup sooner than '97... maybe they would have gotten one or two in the '90-'93 window.