joshy207

I think this off-season will go very far in defining Ken Holland as a GM.  It will show whether his inactivity at the last 2 trade deadlines and last summer were smart move (saving cap and roster space for a big free agent push this summer) or if he lacks the ability or desire to make necessary changes to the makeup of his club in order to stay competitive.

I've been pretty critical of Holland's moves (or more specifically, lack thereof) when it appears the Wings are stale and in need of a wakeup call.  I feel he's hung on to some players for too long (Chelios, Maltby, Holmstrom, and now Bertuzzi) at the expense of critical NHL development time for some of the younger players, I think he lets prospects sit in Grand Rapids for too long--Brendan Smith should have been with the Wings for most, if not all, of last season and basically been Nick Lidstrom's shadow, playing with him in all situations (what better way to learn??), and I can't take him seriously when he says he expects his team to compete for the Stanley Cup every year, but there are no repercussions for players who woefully underperform when the team falls short (i.e., nobody "essential" gets traded away, which sends a message to all remaining players).

I can't give credit to Holland (as GM) for the '97 or '98 Cups, as he was in the process of being handed that team just as they reached the top of the league.  The '98 team was on a mission after the limo accident.  The '02 Cup, he'll get credit, but he had Ilitch's open bank vault and fit the right pieces into place.  The '08 Cup and '09 final, that's all him.  21 straight playoff appearances is very impressive.  But the last 4 Cup champs were teams that missed the playoffs in the first season after the lockout, and 3 of the 4 Conference finalists this year missed the playoffs that season.  Those teams have had better chances to restock their systems with higher draft picks.

In my opinion, Holland cannot afford to miss out on the best players available, whether it's through free agency or trade.  Time for change, time for improvement.

Guys like Helm aren't uncommon, but he fits so well here, it'd take a lot for me to trade him.  I'd say he's the 3rd most important forward behind Datsyuk and Zetterberg.  He drives the bottom 2 lines, as already stated.  Miller was useless without him late in the season, and Helm's line was the Wings' best on a lot of nights (far too many, really).
I would have Franzen out the door before I could hang up the phone if I was in charge, though...

I agree with you, that's the risk you run.  But it's never really been in Holland's nature to grant spots on the team to guys based on talent alone.  I'm not really worried though, with Smith, Dekeyser, and Ouellet developing I think we're in pretty good shape in the "Prospects with Potential" department.

Edit:  Well I guess I should take a step back.  Is the kid so skilled that he's in the Toews, Crosby, Stamkos department?  I mean, is it completely obvious to anyone whose ever seen him play that he's going to be elite, and practically is already?  If he's that good, then sure.  If not, we've got a development program for a reason.

Dekeyser isn't Red Wings property.  He's still in school at Western Michigan and he's still a free agent.

I honestly don't expect Datsyuk to be here in 5 years.  To me, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to play forever.  (I could be totally wrong on this though.)  I wouldn't be surprised to see him go back to Russia after his contract is up, either to play in the KHL or to retire.
Franzen and Zetterberg...  they have contracts until the end of time, but again, who knows how long they'll actually play.  I think, health willing, Zetterberg will be here in 5 years, 36 isn't that old.  But his back issues (and any other, future injury) could prevent that.  Franzen, IMO, is less likely to still be playing then.  If he's as disinterested in the regular season as he's reportedly said, or as his play sometimes indicates, he may not want to go through the daily grind in his mid- to late-30s.  Especially if he rediscovers the physical side of the game.
One positive to either Franzen or Zetterberg retiring early... their contracts were signed (way) before the age of 35, so their cap hit disappears if they hang 'em up.

If the Devils lose, which I am confident they will, I still see Parise walking away. Why? Because the Devils are not that good of a team heading into the future. Marty may or may not retire after this year, but regardless once he is gone, their team will not be nearly as good and I think Parise knows that.

Change "Devils" to "Red Wings" and "Brodeur" to "Lidstrom" and you still have a true statement.

Fedorov was 6'1".

In today's game, teams are blocking all kinds of shots.  Clogging/taking away shooting lanes, collapsing in front of the net, facing the puck... The Wings are going to have to mix up their style of play and find other ways to score if they want to be successful, especially in the playoffs.  Drive the net more, trying to catch the opponent off guard or force a mistake rather than lulling them to sleep with puck-possesion all day, every day... dump-and-chase when puck possession isn't working or when they're playing a weak defensive opponent... cycle the puck down low more and create openings rather than just feeding everything up top...  a healthy mix will produce better results.

Just because, here's a timeline of the NHL teams and when they entered the NHL.

1917- Montreal, Toronto
1924- Boston
1926- Chicago, NYR
1932- Detroit
1967 (Expansion)- Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, St. Louis, Dallas (Minnesota and California)
1970- Vancouver, Buffalo
1972- NYI, Carolina (Hartford), Calgary (Atlanta)
1974- Washington, New Jersey (Kansas City and Colorado)
1979- Colorado (Quebec), Edmonton, Phoenix (Winnipeg)
1991- San Jose
1992- Ottawa, Tampa Bay
1993- Anaheim, Florida
1998- Nashville
1999- Atlanta
2000- Minnesota, Columbus

Detroit entered the league in 1926 with Chicago and NYR, and Hartford joined with the other WHA teams in 1979

I keep wondering - sometimes out loud - if any of tha Wings are watching these four Western teams play.  Why the hell couldn't our guys figure it out.  That you have to play the puck ALL over the offensive zone, not just the sides.  And SHOOT THE DAMN PUCK!!!

We don't have those types of players.  Holland is the one who should really be watching this.  But he's probably too busy liking his team.

Hollands problem is, he likes this team.  He refuses to ditch certain players who haven't shown up that last few playoffs.  He rewards veterans with contract just because they were/are loyal to him. He let's Nick Lidstrom tell HIM what he wants to make. He is still waiting for "playoff Franzen" to show up and he still believes that UFA's will flock to Detroit, just because of their history PLUS they will more than welcome accepting 1/3 less salary for that same reason...

Couldn't agree more.  And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer... and I think it's the less, the better for Lidstrom.  I don't think he wants to play with a bunch of new guys, he'd rather have as much of this team back as possible.  And I think that's what he's going to get.  Holland seems to not want to lose Lidstrom (can't say I blame him, but...) and will do whatever it takes to retain him, including putting the band back together.


-Stuart out, Smith in full-time.
-Nyquist may replace one of Hudler, Emmerton, or Mursak.
-Conklin out, MacDonald in if healthy, otherwise enter a veteran backup.
Meet your new Wings, same as the old Wings...


And, "We like our team" is the new "Our power play is our enforcer."  PUUUUUKE.

-I'm really glad Holland decided to extend Bertuzzi.  2 more years AND a raise?  Brilliant.  If he hadn't gotten that offer then, I doubt he would get it now.  (And no, this is not hindsight, this is exactly what I said when I read the news.)
-If I could find someone to take on Franzen's contract, I'd give them 2 or 3 prospects just to say "thanks!"  Lazy, floating, inconsistent albatross.  When he was drafted, he was a hardworking defensive center.  Where did that guy go?
-If Ericsson is our best defensive defenseman, we have huge problems.  He's too mistake-prone to be considered "good" and too soft to be conisdered "tough".  He plays like he's 5'10".  He's ok on the third-pair, but he isn't a top-4 guy and never will be.  And for that, he's way overpaid.
-Smith and Nyquist need to be on this roster next year, unless they are traded.  Which I would consider as part of packages.  Tatar should be given every chance to win a spot as well, again, unless dealt.
-I don't expect to see Suter or Parise sign here, in fact I'd be shocked if they do.  I just don't see Holland shelling out the money necessary to get them.  If he didn't like last year's market prices (just ask Wisniewski, lol) then he definitely won't like this year's.  I expect Suter and Parise to get around $9M per year, each.
-I think the best way to rebuild this team is through trades.  Zetterberg, while immensely important here, would have extremely high value to some other franchises looking for someone to build a solid foundation around.  Could get a top-end sniper in return.  I would entertain offers for everybody on the roster or in the system at this point.  You never know, you might get one you like.

At this rate, 6th is exactly where they'll end up.

Something is seriously lacking in this team lately.

Desire, desperation, fear of losing their job for underperfoming.  It's a country club down at the Joe.

Changes will come this offseason

That won't happen as long as Holland is still GM.  He has a huge boner for this roster as it stands.  That's why, despite him saying the team "NEEDS TO GET BETTER" after being eliminated by San Jose AGAIN last spring, nothing changed.  He replaced Rafalski with White, Salei with Commodore, Modano and Draper with Emmerton and Mursak, and Osgood with Conklin.  4 of those guys retired and had to be replaced.  White is the only one who's really panned out well.  What else?  NOTHING.  Is the team "BETTER"?  NO  And the only deadline move the last 2 years was getting Quincey back... aka fixing a mistake from several years ago.  NOTHING WILL CHANGE.  EVER.

No one really "likes" playing for Nashville, it's just what professional players are supposed to say until they get traded somewhere better.  

I'll bet Mike Fisher likes playing in Nashville, it makes his wife happy...  haha

Sheahan signed with Grand Rapids, not Detroit, so the Wings can't call him up at all this season.  It seems like, as someone speculated in another thread, that they're keeping a contract spot open for free agent Danny DeKeyser from WMU.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign with Detroit as soon as Western's NCAA run is over.

Emmerton's been here all season.  He was a often healthy scratch earlier in the season, but has taken on a regular role with all the injuries.

I think a big part of the Wings' problem is complacency.  The team rarely seems to play with any sense of urgency, and when they do, it's too little, too late.  Underperforming players are almost never scratched or benched unless they're fourth liners or sixth defensemen.  Franzen being demoted to the third line was, honestly, surprising.  When's the last time a regular player was traded away or not re-signed in free agency?  (Hossa was a cap issue, and I don't count Kopecky, he missed almost every playoff game.)  They know they'll be back next year, whether they meet expectations or not.  There is no fear of losing their jobs.
I heard an interesting quote on the radio around the trade deadline... basically it said the Wings overvalue their players and prospects, and undervalue players and prospects from other teams.  Kind of goes along with Wisniewski's quote from last summer that the Wings "don't pay market value".  Also explains why Holland didn't really improve the team last summer (despite the fact that he said the team "has to get better") or at the deadline this year.  Money is no excuse, he had PLENTY of room under the salary cap.
If there's an early exit from the playoffs this year, there NEEDS to be change.  Whether it's trading away a few regular players, firing Babcock (maybe the players are tuning him out?), or even Holland, something would need to be done.  But the loyalty begins at the very top, so as long as Mr. Ilitch is still in charge, I don't see much change on the horizon.