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Member Since 19 Jun 2002
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#2524698 Dan Cleary may return...sigh

Posted by joshy207 on 19 June 2014 - 08:31 PM

I think this will be like the maltby deal. I can't see him wanting to play in the ahl. And if he does play on the wings then it will be because he earned it. Maybe he busts his ass in the offseason and gets in beast mode for one last hoorah. Or maybe his body can't do what his mind wants to and he realizes it and hangs em up. His knees are pretty much shot.


This will be exactly like the Maltby situation... which was an embarrassing for the organization and the player.  I don't think Cleary sees himself as anything but a viable NHLer and he'll be pissed if/when they try to send him down.  Remember him bitching about being a healthy scratch?

#2518275 Will Mantha join GR after the QMJHL playoffs?

Posted by joshy207 on 29 April 2014 - 08:22 PM

Mantha's Val d'Or Foreurs just won their semifinal Game 7, so they're now in the QMJHL final.  Mantha had no points, -1, 2 shots.  His team was outshot 41-16, but won 3-2.

#2518235 Ken Holland Quotes (Apr 29th

Posted by joshy207 on 29 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

I don't care if we lose Babcock or not, and I also wouldn't want to resign Legwand for $5M, but there is no way he will be our #4 center anyhow.  Whatever, I just think since we gave up a ton (in comparison to others on Trade Day) that Legwand should at least be in the immediate future plans for a couple of seasons...but again, not at $5M.


I do not like that they say that hey are going to build the D from within...I do like our kids, but I just think we need a vet or two to bridge the gap while the kids gain experience. BUT, I do feel that Marchenko, Sproul and Ouellet are going good solid players and am excited to see their progress.  If they aren't going to bolster their D with better NHL players, then they damn well better convince Howard to waive his NTC because he proved this season that he cannot make the save when needed and needs a BETTER defense in front of him, not a greener one... Damn Holland, you are going to have $20M available and you want to fill you roster full of rookies? Why save the cap Kenny, so you can acquire that player at the deadline? Give us all a break!


I think the Wings might have been a little disappointed overall in Legwand... he had some really good games when he first got here and showed some flashes after that, but for the most part, he played his way down to 4th-line wing.  I can't see the Wings being excited to bring him back (even after what they gave up to get him) and I can't see him rushing to sign here and play 4th-line minutes again (even though he's a local and had wanted to be here).  Had he produced more, I wouldn't have been surprised to hear that the Wings wanted him back...

And I agree with you on the D, they really do need a vet for a year or two, someone solid and responsible.  I do want to see Sproul, Marchenko, Ouellet, and maybe the other guys, but don't want to have to rely on them just yet.



It seems like the organization is talking out of both sides of its mouth... they are going to build from within (so, YOUTH) but they expect to be much better and make a deep run in the playoffs next year.  Are they "blaming" the 93-point, 8th place finish and the 5-game first-round elimination on injuries?  They were a factor, yes, but this is also a team in decline.  Its key players are old, half of its support players were replaced during the season, and it has no budding superstars on the immediate horizon.  Yet Holland wants to keep the band together.  He won't trade anyone away because he never does, it sounds like he's not going to pursue any free agents of consequence (they might throw off his 2006-based team salary structure)... does he really think everything is just roses?

#2517476 A plea to Holland.

Posted by joshy207 on 26 April 2014 - 11:13 PM

I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


Here are the players between the ages of 25 and 31:  Abdelkader, Helm, Kindl, Miller, Quincey, Ericsson, Eaves, Weiss, Emmerton, Tootoo, Gustavsson, and Howard.  ZERO top-6 forwards, 3 bottom-6 forwards, 2 top-4 defensemen, 2 goalies, an injured free-agent signee, and 3 guys we've exiled to the minors or traded away.  Not exactly a core to build a team around.  There's a generation gap here--all the top players are aging, this group in the middle, and some young up-and-comers who aren't quite ready for playoff success yet.  This is the price the Wings are paying for years of success, low draft positions, and trading away first-round picks.  Pretty much every good team is led by guys between 25 and 31.  Detroit is led by guys over 31.  They'll either have to trade for top players in that age group or ride out the youth movement for another year or two before reaping the benefits of it.

#2517396 A plea to Holland.

Posted by joshy207 on 26 April 2014 - 07:47 PM

I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered. I'd rather keep the kids that are up, surround them with capable vets and return to a one or two rookies a year tradition. We've got so many kids coming up we will have to trade some anyway. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


Young teams need to learn how to win.  This year's active playoff roster only had 5 guys who played in the '08 Cup finals--Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Helm, and Kronwall.  The young players have gained invaluable experience over the past season or two, they'll continue to grow and improve, and I think we're looking at a very, very strong Red Wings team in 2 years if they continue to mix in the youth and stop bringing back veterans who have nothing left in the tank.  Adding a good veteran on D would help also.

The young guys haven't "failed miserably".  This team wasn't all that good, wasn't supposed to beat the #1 team in the NHL, and barely made the playoffs, aided by the epic collapse of 2 other teams.  The playoffs are a different animal, it takes time for them to be able to figure it out.  Look at Datsyuk... 3 goals in his first 42 playoff games!  He had 3 this series alone.  At least now, they've gone through that experience in 2014 rather than 2015 or 2016, as the organization had originally planned.

This is the new course.  The future has already begun.

#2506986 A plea to Holland.

Posted by joshy207 on 07 April 2014 - 01:24 PM

Don't get me wrong, joshy, I totally get where you're coming from. I just don't think there's much of an actual organizational problem here. Maybe some issues with the way a few specific cases have been handled, but any true red flags regarding The Process?


My biggest issue is that this is the automatic way it's done.  The roster is always full of veterans so there's little room for any of the prospects to even get a chance until someone gets hurt or until they've run out of waiver options.  I'm sure it's because Babcock and Holland don't generally trust rookies/young players until they prove their worthiness, but maybe that's changed this year.  I think it has with Babcock, and I hope it has with Holland.  Not completely, I don't think they should abandon the process and rush Mantha, Pulkkinen, Athanasiou, Mrazek, and some of the young defensemen all up here next year, but start leaving room for some of them to get a decent taste of NHL action and go from there.

#2506966 A plea to Holland.

Posted by joshy207 on 07 April 2014 - 11:32 AM

I believe it works in some cases and not as well in others.  Of course, pretty much everyone but the high-end draft picks will spend time in the minors, that's the way player development works.  Exceptions like DeKeyser, Justin Schultz, and a few other college free agents have spent 3-4 extra developmental years in college.  The key is calling them up at the right time... not rushing them and putting them in situations where they can't succeed, but not leaving them in the AHL for too long and stunting their development.

I agree on Sheahan and Jurco, neither were ready last year and probably weren't this September.  Also agree on Callahan and Ferraro, who I think will be either marginal 4th-liners or AHL journeymen.  But if Tatar and Nyquist were ready last year, why not have them up full-time?  (It has worked out for the best, as they're the top 2 forwards playing right now, but that could have still happened had they been full-timers last year.)

My biggest case against "overripening" is Brendan Smith.  Babcock declared him NHL-ready 2 years before he cracked the Wings' lineup full-time, but by leaving him in Grand Rapids, they not only allowed him to stay at a level where he was able to cover up for his mistakes because the game is slower, but they also missed out on a chance for him to watch and learn from one of the best defensemen to ever play the game, if not THE best.  I wonder out loud if staying in Grand Rapids for so long actually stunted his development, and if that's why we watch him mix flashes of brilliance in with consistent mistakes.  Maybe some of those mistakes became habits in Grand Rapids because they didn't hurt him or the team.


Next year, the Wings have absolutely no reason to send Sheahan down.  Jurco, IMO, should stay in Detroit too.  His offensive numbers don't quite indicate how well he has been playing, but that will come with a little more time and patience.  Glendening can go either way, he's a nice defensive 4th-line center and pest, but doesn't provide anything offensively.  Callahan only got one game to prove he's worth re-signing before he runs out of waiver exemptions, and that is not enough of a chance.  If he's re-signed, they'll risk losing him on waivers if he doesn't make the roster.  Same with Ferraro, who I think has less of a chance of returning.  Pulkkinen looked alright in his time up here, but should start the year in GR and be the first callup for a top-9 replacement role.  It's been said Mantha will have a chance to compete for a spot... let's hope there is one available for him to possibly fill.


Back to the original topic though, right now Kindl and Lashoff are pretty much the best option available for the third pairing.  I think Kindl's been a disappointment, given his apparent jump forward last year and the shiny new 4-year contract it earned him.  Lashoff doesn't provide much offensively, but is generally dependable defensively for a bottom-pairing guy and can play with a little edge.  And yes, he's only 23, so he's still young.

#2506934 A plea to Holland.

Posted by joshy207 on 07 April 2014 - 02:14 AM

I would re-call Nathan Paetsch and pair him with Smith on the 3rd when E is back. He is an elite skater and has vast experience. 

Def for the next 4 games, the Griffs are in their p/o we need 3 pts to make sure the game in Buffalo is a must win now.


Paetsch is not under contract to Detroit, he cannot simply be "recalled".  Detroit would have to sign him first... which may be possible, I think they are sitting at 49 contracts right now.


I can't believe no one has challenged the idea that this year proves mgmt is stupid in leaving players down to "overripe." If anything, this year has proven that the Wings are correct in leaving the kids in the minors as long as they do. Everyone who is on the team now and spent time in Grand Rapids is ready to play in the NHL now, including a few that none of us expected to be playing this soon. That tells me that that they are doing the right thing, not the wrong thing.


You are contradicting yourself all over this post.

Are you saying that this year proves overripening is stupid, and you can't believe nobody has said you're wrong?  Or the opposite?  Because your first two sentences are total opposites.

The Wings did not think they could count on Jurco or Sheahan this year.  Instead, those two players are on what has been the Wings' best line many nights.  They did not expect Nyquist and Tatar to be the major contributors they have become.  Last year, they did not expect to have Andersson, Nyquist, Tatar, or Lashoff in the lineup, let alone contribute the way they did.  Most of the other "cup of coffee" call-ups have played quite well, too.

If someone that "none of us expected to be playing this soon" is getting regular icetime and contributing in the NHL, that player was NOT overripened.  That would include Jurco and Sheahan this year, and others like Helm and Kronwall who were called up full-time before they ran out of waiver exemptions.

If anything, the last two years have PROVEN that the Wings DO NOT NEED to leave prospects in the AHL as long as they do with little-to-no NHL playing time.  Their AHL coaching staff is doing a phenomenal job of developing these players, and those players should be rewarded with opportunities to make the Wings' roster out of training camp and/or having chances to be called up and play regularly during the season without having to wait for the injury bug to strike.

#2499580 QMJHL player loses a finger blocking a shot

Posted by joshy207 on 23 March 2014 - 03:06 PM

Gloves are not that heavy-duty.  It's not surprising at all that an 80-90mph slap shot can do that kind of damage to a finger if it gets pinched between the puck and stick.  The foam (and maybe plastic) will give enough for that to happen.

#2483083 NHL players will not participate in 2018 Olympics (Mod Post #99)

Posted by joshy207 on 09 February 2014 - 08:47 PM

Olympic Hockey will never be good again.  I sincerely hope the World Cup will be revived in the next couple years.  This sport needs ultra-high-level international competition.

On the World Cup subject, I'd like to see them have the top 7 countries (USA, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Czech, Slovakia, Russia) and an 8th team made up of players from all other countries, an IIHF/"World" team.

#2478769 Sammy Waived

Posted by joshy207 on 29 January 2014 - 04:04 PM

If he retires, his entire cap hit counts against the Wings.  If he stays with GR, they at least get the $100K in relief from sending him down.  So there's that.

#2473816 Would Samuelsson ever consider retiring mid-season?

Posted by joshy207 on 18 January 2014 - 12:17 PM

I'm sure Samuelsson has pride and that he'd rather be playing and isn't happy sitting out or playing few minutes when he does dress.

#2473557 Andersson out...Emmerton up

Posted by joshy207 on 16 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

The injury "thing" is beyond ridiculous...

#2471498 Pissed off: JJ speaking out

Posted by joshy207 on 09 January 2014 - 03:29 PM

I think the main thing to take from this article is the unprofessionalism displayed by USA Hockey and its officials.  This type of insider information, while craved by all of us, should never be released to the public.  If after the announcement, a coach, GM, or other official wants to say "this is why we took/didn't take Player X", that's fine, but it can then be a more polished statement.  Also, players who have been part of the program for years--like Johnson--and were passed over deserved a call before the announcement.  It's just the right thing to do.

#2471496 Look who's top in GR scoring

Posted by joshy207 on 09 January 2014 - 03:20 PM

How about just referring to players by their NAMES?