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Member Since 19 Jun 2002
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#2422225 Wings looking to trade before using buyouts

Posted by joshy207 on 25 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

The guys Holland seems to want to make available (Emmerton, Tootoo) won't get much in return, maybe a late-round pick, but would clear valuable roster space for guys who need to be here.  Both would probably end up being extra forwards next year anyway.

As for free agents, Bryan Bickell (not Bickel... Stu is a Rangers' defenseman) has one good playoff run, that's IT.  Plenty of guys have had one hot playoff and then disappeared.  John Druce, Chris Kontos, Fernando Pisani.  How about Johan Franzen?  Do we want to risk having another guy like that on a big contract?

Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar?  As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got?  I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.  


Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).  


If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.  

I want to keep him here too.  I really like what he brings to the table, especially his drive.  I think he's even more motivated after being sent down to GR again, despite being one of the Wings' best forwards when he was here.  IMO he has more value in a Wings' uniform than in a trade.

#2397108 Should Howard be benched?

Posted by joshy207 on 05 May 2013 - 09:13 PM

They didn't trust Gustavsson to play in regular season games, what makes you think they trust him in the playoffs?????  The only way Howard comes out is if he dies.  Even then, he might be better than Gustavsson.

#2387412 Which things from the past (not just Wings related) do you miss most?

Posted by joshy207 on 21 April 2013 - 02:04 PM

Actual sweaters.

No forward passing.

Goalies not being able to leave their feet.

The rover.

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#2362105 2014 Salary Cap and overpayment projections

Posted by joshy207 on 27 February 2013 - 08:27 PM

Sign Tatar (3 years, 1 mil per).

Sign Mrazek (3 years, 1.5 mil per).

Sign Datsyuk extension/restructure (7 years, 6 mil per).

Dude, none of these things can happen.  Tatar and Datsyuk are already signed through 2014 and Mrazek is signed through 2015.  You cannot re-sign a player until the final year of his contract.  That new contract does not start until the season after the current contract expires.  There is no restructuring, either.  A deal is a deal until the end unless the player is bought out.

#2355572 Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?

Posted by joshy207 on 14 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

I don't think you'd find anyone better right now than Babcock.  Sometimes I've wondered whether his message is wearing thin with the players, but then the team will snap back and play better hockey.  There are some things that frustrate me though, like hearing him say the same things over and over, like "we have to start better", "we have to play a full 60 minutes", "we have to be better prepared", "we have to work harder"... well, what happens when the bad habits continue game in and game out?  NOTHING.  Same guys, same roles.  If Franzen is lazy, scratch him.  Or bench him, make him dress and sit on the end of the bench all game.  If Cleary is hurt (last year), sit him out for 2-3 weeks and let him heal, he couldn't have gotten any worse.  If Howard has played all but 4 periods this season and will probably wear down like he kinda did after playing just about every game late last year, rest him.  Mrazek is here for a reason, to play.  If he's not going to play, tell Holland to bring McCollum or Pearce up.  Maybe ream a guy publicly, even though it's not his style.  Something's gotta give in those situations.  That said, the team's record and performance to date are better than I had expected.  Not that I thought they'd be 0-13 or anything like that, but they do show flashes of being a pretty good team.

#2342790 Everyone chill out!

Posted by joshy207 on 20 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

There's a phrase, "To whom much is given, much is expected."

Red Wings' players are given a lot.  An awful lot.  They're treated very well by ownership and management, rewarded with contracts that some of us fans say are for too long or for too much money, especially when a player is past his prime.  The players that fit into the team's structure are kept here for a long time, usually only leaving when they choose to retire or to move on.  They're largely sheltered from the public, they don't have to do all the appearances that players in less-traditional hockey markets have to do.  And they're (for the most part) adored by the team's fans.

What's expected in return is that they give 100%, play well, win more often than not, and do well in the playoffs.  Last night's game was a total failure in every way possible.  There was no effort, no emotion, no pride, no appearance of any desire to even be there playing NHL hockey.  I don't think that's what we will see all season, far from it.  But that was no way to start the season, especially after what transpired this summer and fall.  Can you imagine if that was a home game?  The stands would have (or should have) been completely empty by the third period.  It was unacceptable by anyone's standards and especially for a team that says they expect to compete for the Stanley Cup every season.

A couple of you have said the team is due for an overhaul.  I couldn't agree more.  The locker room seems to have become a country club over the last few seasons, there is no price to be paid for under-performing.  Nobody gets traded away, nobody gets let go, nobody gets benched.  Helm's line was the team's best line in way too many games last year.  Other guys continually disappear for long stretches but continue to play here.  Players who don't "fit the system" aren't looked at as possible acquisitions.  Now, what we have is a collection of redundant players and a team that can't adapt to an opponent who outworks the Wings or who can shut down their puck-possession style.  They couldn't dump and chase if their lives depended on it.  An aggressive forecheck is out of the question, 3 or 4 players excepted.  And there's no real hope coming up through the ranks.  Yes, Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, and Sheahan are all NHL-ready or very close, but what are those guys going to do when they get here?  3rd line, maybe fill in on the 2nd line?  We don't have anyone like Tarasenko, Skinner, Henrique, Andrew Shaw... someone who can quickly step in and produce at an NHL level.  Andersson and Sheahan project as 3rd liners and Nyquist and Tatar have talent but are small.  Same as the roster we have now.  It's time for an organizational shift, this season or this off-season.

#2339385 Brunner's nickname

Posted by joshy207 on 11 January 2013 - 07:04 PM


#2338022 Which players will get bought out?

Posted by joshy207 on 06 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

They could also use the open roster spots so guys like Tatar, Andersson, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Frk, etc. actually have a shot at making the NHL before they're 26 and washed up.

#2332358 Best pure goal scorer for the Wings

Posted by joshy207 on 21 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

None of the guys listed are "pure" goal scorers. That label is reserved for elite snipers like Stamkos and Hossa. Hudler was probably the closest thing we had to a goal-scorer last year, and that was mostly because he didn't do anything else very well.

#2328837 Doan staying in PHX 4 yrs $21.2 mill

Posted by joshy207 on 15 September 2012 - 12:21 AM

If Doan retires during the term of the contract, his cap hit still counts against the Coyotes. Good way to help keep them above the floor.

Here's the best part of this: The Coyotes are owned and operated by the NHL. They haven't been sold yet. So, the league, which is about to lock out the players, just overpaid a guy with a contract that *could* be used to help circumvent the salary floor AND they gave him a $2M signing bonus, which is guaranteed money, lockout or not.

This league is effed. It needs to go away. I'm sick of Bettman and the two-faced owners and GMs. Time for someone to start up a rival league, do it right with reasonable contracts, reasonable ticket prices, teams in solid hockey markets only, fewer teams (20 sounds good), a shorter season...

#2324097 Our current forwards.

Posted by joshy207 on 06 August 2012 - 11:49 PM

I'll agree, the major problems have been lack of postseason scoring and soft defense. Those have been the problems since 2009, but Holland's done little to nothing to address those issues.

#2320837 Another option - Wait for 2013

Posted by joshy207 on 21 July 2012 - 01:31 AM

No. No. No.

Last July, Holland didn't like what he saw going on with the available free agent crop, so he waited for 2012, when Suter, Parise, and a LOT more guys were going to be UFAs. Well, what happened? Most of the quality players re-signed with their teams during the season, so the 2012 free agent pool ended up being very shallow after the top 2 players. And we all know what happened with them. Next year will just be more of the same. Holland needs to find the right moves and act NOW.

#2319344 The biggest difference in the Nashville series

Posted by joshy207 on 15 July 2012 - 06:18 PM

Goaltending is about the last thing you can blame for the Wings losing the series.
-The Wings were absolutely atrocious in their own zone. Turned the puck over way too much and couldn't cover anyone in front of the net. Howard had no chance on half the Predators' goals.
-The Wings' forwards were just as bad. They couldn't score in a house of ill repute with a truck full of $100s. They wouldn't go to the net to create in-tight scoring chances or battle for rebounds. They were smaller and slower than Nashville, and it showed, bigtime.
-The Predators were so motivated for that series. That team was built to beat Detroit. They succeeded. That may as well have been their Stanley Cup, because Phoenix walked all over them as easily as they walked all over us.
-The Wings appeared to not be motivated at all. Missing Helm was a part of that. Nobody else brings his energy. How many games in the regular season was Helm's line the team's best? (The answer is WAY TOO MANY!) But another part of that is, I get the sense that these players know they'll be here year after year, they aren't traded away, they are re-signed as long as they fit under the cap, and they aren't really forced out the door until it's painfully obvious they need to retire. If they don't win the Cup, a series, whatever, they think, oh, it's ok, we'll be back next year. There's no price to pay for underachieving, and that's what drives me crazy.

#2319212 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by joshy207 on 14 July 2012 - 10:15 PM

Same old s*** from Holland.

He's done nothing of significance the last several deadlines and offseasons.

This offseason, his big accomplishment is signing a 4th liner that any GM could have signed and that old goof Samuelsson, who we don't need at this point. And that's coming off three early playoff exits in a row and the retirement of your best player for the last decade.

I don't know what our record will be next season, but the offseason up until now has been a disaster. But Holland's mentality is, "All is well"

Couldn't agree more!!!

This is what it is like trying to talk to some members of this board right now

This can be said for people on both sides of the argument.

That defense sounds better to me than Doughty, Greene, Mitchell, Martinez, Voynov and Scuderi
Salvador, Zidlicky, Harrold, Fayne, Volchenkov and Greene

You mean both the defenses that just played for the Stanley Cup? Granted, neither are standout D corps and Detroit's isn't terrible, but both NJ's and LA's are solid.

21 straight playoff appearances (might I mind you the longest streak in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS HISTORY)

Not true. While it is the longest ACTIVE streak in the North American Big 4 pro sports, it is only tied for 5th in NHL history and tied for 6th overall, behind Boston Bruins (29 years), Chicago Blackhawks (28), St Louis Blues (25), Montreal Canadiens (22), Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers (22), and tied with Montreal and Portland TrailBlazers at 21 straight years. (via Wikipedia)

Wait Ian White, the defenseman that was +23 and 32 points for 2.8 million isn't very good? He is better than Ehroff, Kaberle, Goligoski, Bogosian, Girardi, Bouwmeester, Fowler, Erik Johnson etc. He played very very well last season. Yikes.

As someone already stated, White spent most of the season paired with Lidstrom. Most of these players would have had at least similar seasons, if not better, than White's. He was not the same without Lidstrom. And Cam Fowler is what, 20? When's the last time Detroit had a defenseman good enough to play in the NHL at that young age??

Since when is making the playoffs year in, year out "not doing anything"?
In 2010 Red Wings had very little assets.

Since he didn't have to do anything to have the team make the playoffs again. Question is, is just making the playoffs good enough for a franchise that says they expect to comepte for the Cup EVERY YEAR? Is it good enough for you?
And whose fault is it that they didn't have anyone tradeable in 2010? Certainly not mine... not yours... it is Ken Holland's.

There is absolutely nothing better any of you could have done. Period.

That's a pretty easy statement to make when there's no way to prove it right or wrong...

I'm of the opinion that the reason we're the dominant force in the league is because we scout, draft, and develop talent better than just about anyone. Pair that with the fact that the organization treats players well and therefore, they're willing to stay at almost any cost. In my opinion, that's were Ken Holland earns all his accolades. He doesn't really splash in free agency or the trade deadline, but his ability to consistently produce homegrown talent, and keep it around, makes him one of the best in the league. Not because he does or doesn't spend too much money.

That first sentence is an outdated cliche. Every organization scouts Canada, the US, and Europe/Russia thoroughly. Gone are the days of slipping Pavel Datsyuk through the cracks because nobody else saw him playing in his third-tier league. Long gone are the days of drafting Nick Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov anywhere outside the top 5 because you weren't sure you could get them to come to the NHL. Detroit was a pioneer in Europe, but the rest of the league has followed. And every team produces late-round gems, not just Detroit. Actually, if you compare every team's draft history over the last 15-20 years, Detroit's does not really stand out, there are a handful of teams I'd put as equal or better in the scouting/drafting/developing department.
And yes, the Wings' organization treats the players VERY well... they're generally sheltered from the media and public, the Wings were one of the first teams to fly a private plane, and there are a lot of little perks we don't get to see. But that falls largely on Ilitch, it's his organizational policy, not Holland's. Holland is a benefactor of that policy himself, being a former minor-league player turned scout turned GM. He's been a part of the organization since 1983. He's just following along the company line.
My biggest issue with "keeping homegrown talent" is that, despite obvious shortcomings in some postseasons, the same players are kept around year after year after year. Holland has said (and I don't know where to find the quote, so I'll paraphrase) that he "doesn't believe in trading away assets. Once you get them, you hang on to them." Well, sometimes those assets underachieve when they're being counted on the most. Sometimes trading away one asset (for equal value in return) can inject new life into the rest of the remaining players, as they may decide they don't want to be traded away too, so maybe they better pick it up. Just because you have a recipe that works, doesn't mean you don't tinker with that recipe a little, including removing an ingredient and replacing it with something different. Because right now, I think the Wings' core is very, very complacent, and that's not a good thing in my opinion.

#2318682 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by joshy207 on 12 July 2012 - 02:37 PM

Holland was relatively inactive last offseason, citing the lack of quality free agents and the high prices of those who were available, and was holding off on spending big until this summer, when the UFA class was much better. Well, look what happened... most of the top pending UFAs re-signed during the season. We were left with two big players, both of whom Holland just missed out on getting. Now he's likely saving for next off-season, but who knows what players will actually be available?