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joshy207

Member Since 19 Jun 2002
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 01:55 PM
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#2443307 Will young talent ever speak out against Wings philosophy?

Posted by joshy207 on 11 October 2013 - 03:15 AM

 

Somethings you were unaware of or simply forgot in your rant:

 

Tatar was in the AHL (tearing it up mind you) during the push for the playoffs at the end of the season. His last game with the Wings was 3/10.

 

The Wings offered Brunner basically the same offer he signed, but they offered it to him before Free Agency even began, and BRUNNER TURNED IT DOWN. Him not being here has nothing to do with Holland and Babcock!

 

Also the biggest reasons the Wings still made the playoffs was the TWO WAY play (yes offense and defense) of guys like Dats and Z, you know vets, and the other was the play of Howard.

 

Brunner scored 5 points in the month of April, you know the stretch run, in which a vet by the name of Dan Cleary had the same Point Total?

 

Nyquist put up 4 points in the month of April, the same as Flip, a vet who plays a two way game, yet was just let go for under performing and the money he wanted.

 

For contrast purposes Z had 13 points in April and Dats had 14.

 

So other than stating facts that are simply not facts and/or ignoring the contributions of the Vets,  your post was spot on!

Your points are valid, so please don't think I'm upset, but I can answer them:

-I know Tatar was in the AHL from March on.  I was disappointed when he was sent back down.  I thought when he was here, he was the 2nd best forward in the lineup behind Datsyuk.  Tatar made something happen on most of his shifts.  Few other guys were doing that at that time.

-Brunner did turn down a decent offer, yes.  That's on him and his agent.  I was disappointed that Holland didn't do more to keep Brunner, but giving away the farm would not have been a smart move.

-I said ONE OF the biggest reasons the Wings made the playoffs was the play of the young guys.  One of.  But a big one.  Had they come up and not performed, this team would not have made the post-season.  As it is, they made it on the last day, by one point.  The #1 reason they made it was Jimmy Howard's play.  He was rock-solid from about 3 weeks in until the very end.  Team MVP, no question.  Datsyuk's and Zetterberg's play and leadership were also huge.

-As for the points in April, that's fine.  I'll still argue that the third line of Andersson, Brunner, and Nyquist was an important part of the Wings' making the playoffs and advancing as far as they did.

-Filppula DID underperform.  He has every season but 2011-12.  For all his talent, he should produce more than he does.  I see he's off to a good start in Tampa... it'll be interesting to see how his season goes.

-Dan Cleary has been brutal for the last two years.  Brutal.  He had a good, productive playoffs, yes... but he's back to being brutal so far this year.

-I did not "ignore" the contributions of veteran players, my post was not meant to be a complete and total summary of last season.  I was simply pointing out how some important parts of last year's team are being pushed aside at this time for players that I feel have less to offer.




#2442974 Will young talent ever speak out against Wings philosophy?

Posted by joshy207 on 10 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

I agree I thought last year was the perfect mix of veterans and youngsters with the forward group.
Youngsters together on the third line playing against other teams third pairing D makes a lot of sense to me and it seemed to work out well.


Maybe too many youngsters on the defensive corps

It's kind of strange. I think we would benefit from more youngsters on offense, like the third line of Nyquist Andy and Tatar, but last year I think we would have benefited in the playoffs with the veteran experience of Ian White over the inexperience of young Smith.
Yes Babcock chooses opposite. Hmm.

 

I agree.  One of the reasons the Wings even made the playoffs was because of the play of Brunner, Andersson, Nyquist, and Tatar.  But it wasn't the Wings' plan to have them in the lineup (except Brunner, who was a low-risk gamble).  So, as a thank-you to those players, Andersson gets saddled with 2 corpses for linemates, Tatar gets a seat in the press box, Brunner gets some black added to his uniform (NJ, where he has 3G/1A in 4GP but is a -3), and Nyquist isn't even in the league right now.  Nice reward, eh?

At some point, leaving a player in the AHL becomes counterproductive.  The AHL game is noticeably slower than the NHL game.  There's only so much you can learn there.  You cannot adjust to NHL play in the AHL.  Andersson, Nyquist, and Tatar all showed very well in the NHL last year, showed they were ready for regular NHL duty.  Brunner also proved he can play in the league.  Why was that not good enough for Holland and Babcock?

Are there better defensive players than Brunner, Tatar, and Nyquist?  Yes.  But defensive awareness comes with experience, which you can only get with experience.  You have to play.  In the NHL.  Was Yzerman a good defensive player in the first half of his career?  NO.  The vast majority of NHLers aren't.  It's not fair to expect that from rookies.

If anyone can explain to me the benefits (short-term and long-term) of playing Samuelsson, Cleary, and Bertuzzi over Nyquist and Tatar, please, go for it!




#2439226 Petr Mrazek or Jonas Gustvsson

Posted by joshy207 on 26 September 2013 - 09:44 PM

I like Mrazek.  A lot.  I think he's going to be a very good to great goalie, and I want to see him in a Wings uniform for a long time.  But not this year.  I'd rather he play 50-55 games in GR than 15-20 in Detroit.  Call him up occasionally for a spot start, yes.  Call him up if one of the Wings' goalies gets hurt.  And if Howard has to miss any games (knock on wood!!) then Mrazek takes over and Gustavsson remains the backup.  Next year, if Mrazek has another season like last year, he becomes the backup.  Over the length of Howard's contract, Mrazek should play more games each year, transitioning into the starter's role as Howard ages.




#2434580 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by joshy207 on 01 September 2013 - 11:23 AM

Wow.  Bum.  And now the primary Compliance Buyout candidate next summer unless he proves he actually cares enough about his job to actually do it.




#2425558 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by joshy207 on 03 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

I thought I would start a thread tonight for those fans who take the time to look at the big picture - rather than broadcast any anger towards one of the best GM's in the NHL just because it didn't go our way today. So before you elect Paul Holmgren as our next GM, consider that since 2007 he has signed 6 contracts to a combined 61 years and $374.5 Millon to players who are NOT currently playing for Philadelphia. (Shea Weber, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Danny Briere, Ilya Bryzalov, and Chris Pronger) you can also add James Van Riemsdyk to that list.

Here are 5 overreaction's I have been exposed to since 10 AM this morning.

1. Vincent Lecavalier - I"ll admit I was intrigued by the possibility of him centering our second line next year...but that's about it. He is 33 years old, is already too slow, and now playing with house money for the duration of this ridiculous 5 year contract. My question is: How motivated is this Stanley Cup champ, who hasn't played more than 65 games or scored more than 25 goals since 09-10, and hasn't been a + player since 06-07 going to be for the next 5 years? Sadly enough, at the same age, Johan Franzen has actually put up better all around numbers since then and who on this site hasn't posted in a "trade Franzen" thread.

2. David Clarkson - Thank God. Why does anyone want this guy signed to a long term contract at 6+ Million per season. Those figures are entering Datsyuk range, and are already in Zetterberg range. Congratulatons on your one 30 goal season Dave, but considering that Hakan Loob, Stephane Richer, Jonathon Cheechoo, Wayne Babych and Dino Cicarelli all scored 50 once... No Thanks.

3. Buyouts - There are like 1 or 2 good centres left in this years free agent crop that 29 other teams have interest in, meaning we probably aren't going to get who we want (Stephen Weiss) because someone will overspend when it's the wrong thing to do (Philadelphia). Collatarally, this means that with 10+ million in the bank and very few targets to spend it on right now, why would we burn our last compliance buyout on either Sammy or Bert who both have 1 year remaining on their contracts, when we still have 4 players signed until at least 2019. The point is, we aren't spending 10 Mill this summer on free agents meaning there is no point in getting rid of any assets simply for cap relief.

4. Lack of Team Talent? - We played Chicago harder than anyone they met en route to winning the cup, and had 3 chances to eliminate them. As of right now, the team will be adding Helm, Bertuzzi, Dekeyser, and Tatar to next years full time roster and losing Filpulla and White for sure. Brunner and Cleary remain to be seen, but can someone tell me how next years team isn't better than last years based on injuries alone, and before you take into account the development of all of our rookies?

5. The Time Is Now - Has anyone seen next years free agent class? Before you erase Vincent Lecavalier from your CapGeek thread team, and visit nhltraderumours.com to pencil someone else into our top 6 while maintaining about $14,000 in Cap Space, consider the future.

 

I also agree with you on Lecavalier (length of contract) and Clarkson (value of contract), but disagree on the rest.

 

The buyouts are all about roster space for younger players and (hopefully) an incoming free agent or two.  Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson, Smith, DeKeyser, and Lashoff need to have regular roles on this team.  Tatar and Nyquist should probably start the season on the top 2 lines, see how they do with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen.  If it isn't working, then make a change.  DeKeyser, if he plays the way he did in his short stint last year, will be the #2 defenseman by Thanksgiving.  Lashoff is a capable, defense-first guy, something this team lacks.  He should rotate in and out of the 3rd pairing.

 

Talent and hard work are two completely different things.  Some players have talent, some work hard, and some do both.  Same with teams.  Detroit got a 3-1 lead over Chicago by playing hard and getting under Chicago's skin.  Toews was completely neutralized for the first half of that series, and was actually a detriment to his team because of the way the Wings played against him.  That was hard work, not talent, on the Wings' part.  Based on talent, this team has 3 top-6 forwards and 1 top-3 defenseman right now.  The rest are bottom-6 and bottom-3 guys.

 

The same thing was said last year about this year's FA class.  And the year before about last year's class.  And so on and so on.  Most of the good ones will re-sign with their current teams.

 

Holland has exposed himself over the last few years.  This team has not gotten better.  Some of its draft picks and undrafted free agents are working out, some will be very good in the near future.  But he has not added significant pieces in forever.  He also has not gotten rid of enough "dead weight" either.  He hangs on to guys for too long.  He overvalues his own players and undervalues everyone else's.  He seems reluctant, if not downright afraid, to make a move.  One thing he does very well is work with the guys on his staff, listens to them and trusts their opinions.  But how much of Holland's "magic" really was Scotty Bowman, Jim Nill, his scouts, and Mike Ilitch's wallet?  The more time goes on, I think it's becoming evident that it's at least a big part of it.




#2423164 Finnish club Jokerit moving to KHL

Posted by joshy207 on 28 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

With native-born players leaving for North America and the KHL already, I wonder if they feel the quality of their league is dropping and a move to the KHL would give their fans better hockey to watch.  A move like this could work if other clubs follow suit and help transform the KHL from a mostly-Russian league to a full European/Asian league with teams all over the map.




#2422278 drew miller signing a mistake - who are we gonna get rid of?

Posted by joshy207 on 25 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

It sounds like there will be some moves, even if it's just buyouts, letting UFAs walk, and trading away extra players.

 

I like the Miller signing, the cap hit might be just a hair over what I expected, but I have no problem with it.  He's a much better value than Tootoo at $1.9M...




#2422225 Wings looking to trade before using buyouts

Posted by joshy207 on 25 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

The guys Holland seems to want to make available (Emmerton, Tootoo) won't get much in return, maybe a late-round pick, but would clear valuable roster space for guys who need to be here.  Both would probably end up being extra forwards next year anyway.

As for free agents, Bryan Bickell (not Bickel... Stu is a Rangers' defenseman) has one good playoff run, that's IT.  Plenty of guys have had one hot playoff and then disappeared.  John Druce, Chris Kontos, Fernando Pisani.  How about Johan Franzen?  Do we want to risk having another guy like that on a big contract?



Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar?  As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got?  I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.  

 

Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).  

 

If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.  

I want to keep him here too.  I really like what he brings to the table, especially his drive.  I think he's even more motivated after being sent down to GR again, despite being one of the Wings' best forwards when he was here.  IMO he has more value in a Wings' uniform than in a trade.




#2397108 Should Howard be benched?

Posted by joshy207 on 05 May 2013 - 09:13 PM

They didn't trust Gustavsson to play in regular season games, what makes you think they trust him in the playoffs?????  The only way Howard comes out is if he dies.  Even then, he might be better than Gustavsson.




#2387412 Which things from the past (not just Wings related) do you miss most?

Posted by joshy207 on 21 April 2013 - 02:04 PM

Actual sweaters.

No forward passing.

Goalies not being able to leave their feet.

The rover.


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#2362105 2014 Salary Cap and overpayment projections

Posted by joshy207 on 27 February 2013 - 08:27 PM

Sign Tatar (3 years, 1 mil per).

Sign Mrazek (3 years, 1.5 mil per).

Sign Datsyuk extension/restructure (7 years, 6 mil per).

Dude, none of these things can happen.  Tatar and Datsyuk are already signed through 2014 and Mrazek is signed through 2015.  You cannot re-sign a player until the final year of his contract.  That new contract does not start until the season after the current contract expires.  There is no restructuring, either.  A deal is a deal until the end unless the player is bought out.




#2355572 Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?

Posted by joshy207 on 14 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

I don't think you'd find anyone better right now than Babcock.  Sometimes I've wondered whether his message is wearing thin with the players, but then the team will snap back and play better hockey.  There are some things that frustrate me though, like hearing him say the same things over and over, like "we have to start better", "we have to play a full 60 minutes", "we have to be better prepared", "we have to work harder"... well, what happens when the bad habits continue game in and game out?  NOTHING.  Same guys, same roles.  If Franzen is lazy, scratch him.  Or bench him, make him dress and sit on the end of the bench all game.  If Cleary is hurt (last year), sit him out for 2-3 weeks and let him heal, he couldn't have gotten any worse.  If Howard has played all but 4 periods this season and will probably wear down like he kinda did after playing just about every game late last year, rest him.  Mrazek is here for a reason, to play.  If he's not going to play, tell Holland to bring McCollum or Pearce up.  Maybe ream a guy publicly, even though it's not his style.  Something's gotta give in those situations.  That said, the team's record and performance to date are better than I had expected.  Not that I thought they'd be 0-13 or anything like that, but they do show flashes of being a pretty good team.




#2342790 Everyone chill out!

Posted by joshy207 on 20 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

There's a phrase, "To whom much is given, much is expected."

Red Wings' players are given a lot.  An awful lot.  They're treated very well by ownership and management, rewarded with contracts that some of us fans say are for too long or for too much money, especially when a player is past his prime.  The players that fit into the team's structure are kept here for a long time, usually only leaving when they choose to retire or to move on.  They're largely sheltered from the public, they don't have to do all the appearances that players in less-traditional hockey markets have to do.  And they're (for the most part) adored by the team's fans.

What's expected in return is that they give 100%, play well, win more often than not, and do well in the playoffs.  Last night's game was a total failure in every way possible.  There was no effort, no emotion, no pride, no appearance of any desire to even be there playing NHL hockey.  I don't think that's what we will see all season, far from it.  But that was no way to start the season, especially after what transpired this summer and fall.  Can you imagine if that was a home game?  The stands would have (or should have) been completely empty by the third period.  It was unacceptable by anyone's standards and especially for a team that says they expect to compete for the Stanley Cup every season.

A couple of you have said the team is due for an overhaul.  I couldn't agree more.  The locker room seems to have become a country club over the last few seasons, there is no price to be paid for under-performing.  Nobody gets traded away, nobody gets let go, nobody gets benched.  Helm's line was the team's best line in way too many games last year.  Other guys continually disappear for long stretches but continue to play here.  Players who don't "fit the system" aren't looked at as possible acquisitions.  Now, what we have is a collection of redundant players and a team that can't adapt to an opponent who outworks the Wings or who can shut down their puck-possession style.  They couldn't dump and chase if their lives depended on it.  An aggressive forecheck is out of the question, 3 or 4 players excepted.  And there's no real hope coming up through the ranks.  Yes, Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, and Sheahan are all NHL-ready or very close, but what are those guys going to do when they get here?  3rd line, maybe fill in on the 2nd line?  We don't have anyone like Tarasenko, Skinner, Henrique, Andrew Shaw... someone who can quickly step in and produce at an NHL level.  Andersson and Sheahan project as 3rd liners and Nyquist and Tatar have talent but are small.  Same as the roster we have now.  It's time for an organizational shift, this season or this off-season.




#2339385 Brunner's nickname

Posted by joshy207 on 11 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

Brunnerer




#2338022 Which players will get bought out?

Posted by joshy207 on 06 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

They could also use the open roster spots so guys like Tatar, Andersson, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Frk, etc. actually have a shot at making the NHL before they're 26 and washed up.