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i expect them to look like they give a s***.

You forgot Dallas Drake. An unforgivable lapse.

wings fans have higher standards, and with good reason. we aren't the ******* blue jackets here we expect more.

What's worse - he could go blind.

No one here thinks he's the reincarnation of Terry Sawchuk, nor did anyone think so when we re-signed him. We needed a back-up goalie for Howard after Ozzie retired, and we got one.

At the same time, people seem to think questioning lack of effort means the OP is saying "being 5 and 2 sucks!" His original post was mostly about lack of effort. Yet most of the responses were essentially "we're 5-2. Shut the F up!" and basically ignoring what I think is a relevant point regardless of their record. Made even more relevant based on Babcock's reaction to last night's game. It seems like most people reacted to the post title (which was probably poorly chosen) and not the content of his actual post.

Helm doesn't have the offense to play on the top line. He creates plays with speed and tenacity, not pure skill. Z is still better than 90% of the league. If that's nothing special, I don't want to know what you think of the rest of the roster.

Me too. Those were the days before the thought police started patrolling.* The only players acceptable to rip on are Ericsson and sometimes Hudler. Osgood used to be fair game too but sadly he retired. I understand that no one wants a forum of mindfly's around here, but there's still constructive talk to be had when the team doesn't play well, even if it's critical. A forum full of "Holland is great! Babcock is great! The Wings are great! I'm sure it'll get better!" doesn't interest me much. I don't think a trade is necessarily a solution, but Babs was obviously pissed by the players lack of effort last night. We're not imagining it. The first couple seasons Babcock had guys working hard and doing all the little things right. Maybe the novelty of his message is wearing off. I certainly wouldn't want to get rid of a coach as great as Babs and am not suggesting that, but complacency has been a repeating theme with this team the last couple seasons. Franzen just about openly says he gets bored with the regular season. EDIT: and yes I know the team is 5-2. I'm not saying the Wings are doomed. It's obviously early in the season and on paper they're off to a great start. But doesn't "lack of effort" and phrases like it from the coach and players sound really familiar from last season? More than thinking it's a fatal flaw, it's a worry from me that things haven't changed. *I'm not referring to the moderators

I think it's the manner of the losses, not the losses themselves. Not that I'm panicking or complaining, just saying. Though Zetterberg needs to get his s*** together.

It's only two games--preceded by five games of very good hockey--and yours is a knee-jerk reaction of the worst sort. Get a grip. On a minor note--and for your own future reference--it seems that you have a very flawed understanding of roster limits. The Wings are at the maximum roster size right now. They cannot simply make players healthy scratches and call up others to replace them. They may only exceed the roster limit via call-ups if the call-ups are replacing injured players. Please note that I find the entirety of your post ludicrous and only wrote this clarification for your own benefit.

FIRE SALE!! FIRE SALE!!

Meanwhile, the Pens continue to dominate without Crosby and Malkin.

I don't believe "uninspired" play for a period here and there allows for 5 goals in total for the first 4 games. The typical remnants of the type of uninspired hockey you speak of, that does in fact sometimes plague the Red Wings, is the team winning a 1 goal game when they were up far more than that, or off to a typical slow start, getting behind, and coming back to win by a goal or two, or coming one goal short. The first 5 games were decisive victories played with a stifling defence and playing for a full 60+ minute game. The last two games were very uncharacteristic of the Red Wings, but that s*** happens to teams during the regular season as they're not robots. Maybe you confused the lethargic Wings with the lethargic crowds in the lower bowl at the Joe? I'm not sure but you certainly aren't shooting anywhere near on target with your assertion of how the Wings played the first 5 games.

He's a Red Wing, thus I want him to do well. I don't care if he's the worst player on the team - when he's on the ice, I want him to succeed. Most people here know I carry no love for Todd Bertuzzi, but that doesn't mean I hope he sucks. If he sucks, our team suffers. Same with Conklin. He's not the best goalie on the team this season, he's not even the best goalie our team has ever had in its history, but when he goes between the pipes, I hope he turns into the reincarnation of Terry Sawchuk.

Now's the time to trade Lids and Dats, Kenny, they're both getting older! Quick! Before I have to pop another Xanax or Ritalin!

In 2007-08 the Red Wings' first 7 games were 4-2-1 (9 pts) -- pretty sure we remember how that season ended. So far they have 5-2-0 (10 pts) and are on pace for 117. So, following a horrendous 5-2 start, without reservation, we begin another season episode of Panic time!

Nothing against Babcock as he is the best coach in the NHL, but we have heard that from him multiple times every regular season since the Wings won it all. The effort wasn't there is the most repeated phrase coming from that locker room.

Zetterberg/Kindl +1st for Bogosian!!!!! Call up Nyquist!! DO IT NOW! DON'T WAIT UNTIL THE TEN GAME MARK OR UNTIL HE'S HEALTHY!!

Saying it's just two games and to not worry about it is no better than saying what the OP did. Simple fact is the past two games they have played lethargic, undisciplined hockey. Taking seven penalties in one game is pathetic and worthy of a practice with no pucks. While I don't think it would affect the Wings but this type of play devolps bad habits. I don't know about the rest of you but the last thing I want going into Friday is a Red Wings team with bad habits. Some quotes He went on to question their effort the past two games as well. But everyone here in their infinite wisdom, moreso than Babcock himself, say don't worry aboot it so all is well. I'm not saying hit the panic button or do a trade in the immediate future or what have you, but to sit there and say absolutely nothing is wrong when the coach himself is claiming otherwise, is kind of silly

Lol?

Yes, how dare Jimmy Howard spend a couple days with his wife, who just pushed something the size of a watermelon out of a hole the size of a lemon, and thus is probably still in some discomfort, on top of getting used to having a newborn in the house. The cad. The scoundrel. The bastard. Thank God you're here to help us see the way clearly.

Come now, there's not a season goes by that every team in the league doesn't suffer losses like this one. You can expect more, but this is the reality of your present universe. That said, although the Wings' 5-2 start is nice, it's hardly special. There are four other teams in the West that have more or less equaled that start -- the Wings have work to do.

Helm on the first line? Surely that will fix the two goals in two games issue.

Not totally. I was, however, pretty sure that if we didn't, they would.

Stay classy Wings fans. He dropped like a ton of bricks and you can hear him screaming as he goes into the dressing room holding his face. Clearly this was more than a little cut. According to Bob McKenzie he's seeing an eye specialist but there's too much swelling to know anything.