unsaddleddonald

This.
The Miller signing is inconsequential. Not signing him wouldn't have solved our roster issue. Drew Miller only makes us better. You can't ask for more from a 4th liner than what he gives.

Im FOR Miller.

This.
The Miller signing is inconsequential. Not signing him wouldn't have solved our roster issue. Drew Miller only makes us better. You can't ask for more from a 4th liner than what he gives.

Serious question: what were Orr's actual defensive abilities like?
My impression of him as always been he was a forward who played defense (Sergei Fedorov). Was he a Karlsson/Letang?

Butterfly goaltending basically didn't exist in the 70's, pads were very heavy and small, and goalies were ENCOURAGED to stay standing and not to go down. Couple that with a near complete lack of defensive and positioning structure at the time and you have a recipe for the unheard of point production of the 70's and 80's. Simply put...Lidstrom putting up 70 plus points in 2000 is like Orr putting up 115 or more in the early 70's. Except Lidstrom did it without rushing the puck like a forward...even if Orr was better, I don't think its near as far apart as some people will tell you.

Its stuff like this that makes comparing players from different eras very hard. I think Orr would still be good but not otherworldly dominating good. Orr revolutionalized hockey for defenseman, he was a great skater, scorer, and he would fight. He was Wayne Gretzky on defense. Your right though. The game has become incredibly more refined, coached, and defended. I think its starting to settle into the zone where it won't change much anymore without large rule changes because they've really exploited out the games deficiencies. That said, Lidstrom played during the end of the freewheeling era, the dead puck era, and the post cap era. His most clear dominance though was during the dead puck era when some teams top scorer would have 55 points. This guy was putting up 70 from defence without rushing the puck like Orr. He did all this while being the best defensive defenseman in the game with little to no physical game...I believe he was the best ever during the most refined era of hockey to date.

Serious question: what were Orr's actual defensive abilities like?
My impression of him as always been he was a forward who played defense (Sergei Fedorov). Was he a Karlsson/Letang?

Filppula slew foot.

Filppula slew foot.

I agree it would take a gun to my head to make me choose, but in that scenario it would have to be Marchand - he's a dick, but Shaw is in a class by himself these days.

Ugh... Honestly, my initial reaction to that question feels as if it has the same sentiment as which would you rather have, chlamydia or gonorrhea?
But I honestly do get the spirit you intended behind the question and I agree with your answer. I just despise both players these days.
If they were to ever come on board as Red Wings then we'll see what happens. The 'most severe' case of this phenomenon in my lifetime was the conversion of Chris Chelios. Believe it or not, in his case I still mostly say, "I support whoever wears the Winged Wheel" instead of someone like say Zetterberg who I'm extremely happy is a Red Wing.

This is huge for free agents considering the Wings.

I'm not saying that I personally have a solution, but I know what we already have and what we need.
Like Clarkson or Horton as was mentioned.

I agree with everyone leaning towards the idea that we already have enough smallish forwards who are pass first.
Give me size and goal scoring before Weiss

I don't understand Doug Wilson. He hasn't changed anything in, what, 5-6 years? They haven't won and they haven't really even come close. I don't consider getting to the Conference Finals two years in a row with a 1-8 record being close. I remember when there were supposed to be big changes when they were eliminated from the Ducks in '09 in the first round. They aren't going anywhere.
With the Pens, they have had better teams since '09 and they haven't really threatened. Granted, I think the only team in the East that could have beaten them last year was the Flyers and this year was the Bruins, but Bylsma's inability to adjust in a 7 game series is very telling. He is Erik Spoelstra of the Heat without the results...

The Sharks somehow end up as a train wreck one way or another in the playoffs. The diving, the invisibility of star players, etc. The Sharks have a few good players, but that's about it. Jumbo Joe and Marleau are definitely on the decline. The Sharks are the team that can't win a Cup but will make sure the opponent that beats them goes on to lose the next round. Congrats, you are good enough to take a toll on a team but aren't good enough to win. Everything else about that organization is going to have to change if they really want to win a Cup. McLellan is definitely not helping things change around there, especially when he had to tell the refs to stop calling his players out for diving. Maybe he cannot make the changes he wants to yet because of current players or politics. You figure he would try emulate Babs after working in Detroit.
Bylsma being extended is shocking. You figure he would have been the fall guy for all the playoff blunders that have plagued the Penguins since 2009. You might say who is going to replace Bylsma, but the truth is it looks like anyone could do that. Maybe Bylsma is on a short leash as the head coach. There is definitely a strong sense of arrogance that the Penguins have had, and I think that is a terrible attitude to take into a playoffs series. During the Islanders series he let his team run loose and play like crap. If Nabokov were a better goaltender the Pens would have been beat by the Islanders. His players decided that they were going to play when they wanted to. The success against the Senators is nothing new, and I thoroughly expected Pens to beat the Senators in the fashion that they did. It is clear to me that Bylsma is struggling to coach that team, given by the performance of his team and his inability to make adjustments.

I don't understand Doug Wilson. He hasn't changed anything in, what, 5-6 years? They haven't won and they haven't really even come close. I don't consider getting to the Conference Finals two years in a row with a 1-8 record being close. I remember when there were supposed to be big changes when they were eliminated from the Ducks in '09 in the first round. They aren't going anywhere.
With the Pens, they have had better teams since '09 and they haven't really threatened. Granted, I think the only team in the East that could have beaten them last year was the Flyers and this year was the Bruins, but Bylsma's inability to adjust in a 7 game series is very telling. He is Erik Spoelstra of the Heat without the results...

I don't understand Doug Wilson. He hasn't changed anything in, what, 5-6 years? They haven't won and they haven't really even come close. I don't consider getting to the Conference Finals two years in a row with a 1-8 record being close. I remember when there were supposed to be big changes when they were eliminated from the Ducks in '09 in the first round. They aren't going anywhere.
With the Pens, they have had better teams since '09 and they haven't really threatened. Granted, I think the only team in the East that could have beaten them last year was the Flyers and this year was the Bruins, but Bylsma's inability to adjust in a 7 game series is very telling. He is Erik Spoelstra of the Heat without the results...

I agree. He'll be getting his BIG payday this offseason from someone.

Yeah but now is now. Besides who would you rather see win the Cup this year anyway. I say Buston! I'll hate them next season.

It's funny to me how we are cheering them now, but Boston may turn out to be our biggest rival next year.

I can't get over the fact that after the FA sweepstakes for guys like Richards they could be bought out.

I'm a sucker for professionalism. LOVE how the Bruins are handling scoring goals. Just going about their business...no flashy celebrations.
By the way, how much is Horton increasing his value for free agency?!?!? DAMMIT!!!!

I can't get over how much more excited I am for the future than I was even 2 months ago.
Things will get better....soon.

No this isn't me expecting a last game Wednesday.
I have been lucky enough to cheer for a team where every year was a competetive year. I arrived in Vancouver in 94 just after the riots and was very interested in this game called hockey. My cousin was watching the Canucks play the Wings and he was being all gooey about how this Canucks team was just one win away from winning the 'cup'. What 'cup'? The 'Stanley Cup'! The cup that caused the riots, he says. In the Philippines, we last took a stand and marched the streets, peacefully, for our rights. What is this cup that can cause a riot?
The wings won that day and my cousin was angry. I said to myself: 'I'm gonna cheer for those guys'. I don't want a team that caused riots!.
I go to school and I play hockey for the first time. I passed the puck to my goalie and i scored on my own net. My whole team was dejected but they said 'it's ok, we'll score back'. Although I scored another goal on my own net I remembered what it was like to play the game. I watched highlights on tsn and followed the wings religiously. NHL 91 was my very first video game. NHL 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 all followed.
I put my faith in the wings. I prayed for them. I cried for them and I trusted in them. Every success they had, I felt, was also my success. I had something to believe in.
96 was a major year for me and all wings fans because this was the Yzerman goal. I remember me sitting down in front of the TV then jumping uncontrollably. It was 'our year'. Finally after losing last year. Then we face the avs and draper gets hit. We lose the series.
I was still in grade school and had been bullied so I just went home, waited for wings highlights and got my taste of success. Then March arrives and mccarty pummels lemieux, scores the winning goal and exacts the full revenge. I felt a sense of euphoria knowing that there's always a next time. We win the cup despite being underdogs to the flyers. I watch vlad's crash video. I was dejected. Next year we play our hearts out after losing a key player and sweep washington. I see Stevie put the cup on vlad's lap and wheel him around while the whole team was behind him. I cried. I get teary eyed even now. They did something more than for themselves. I applied that in my life.
Mediocre years came but I still got to watch hall of fame players wear a wings jersey. Fedorov, larionov, coffey, ciccarelli, vernon, shanny, hull, robitaille, murphy, clark, cujo.
Then 02. Hasek takes us to the finals and during the year I watched Zata and Datsyuk play alongside Hull...i knew they'd be superstars. 08 and 09 come and last year.
I reflect back and realized that I've been very lucky. I watched hall of famers, loved the game and applied everything the wings did, to my life. I go through hard times and know there will be a next time. I go through good times and enjoy it cuz there might never be that chance again. I never regretted anything. Last year was when the last of my childhood heroes left. Lids and homer. I loved them both. Then I look back at this team that they built. They're young and inexperienced still. But, like I did, believed.
In a year that 29 teams would have used to tank and get first pick, we go to second round and take the best team to 7. I never once doubted. I prepared for the worst and always expected the best. It has been a joy to watch the new era carry that torch. In retrospect, we should have been all playing golf after the season. But this team made it possible for more palpatations and for wings fans everywhere to still believe.
Let's go red wings *clap* *clap**clapclapclap*!