trade proposal

[wingsfan27 1]

Witt could be had for our 2nd rounder flat out.

the only reason i threw in hudler was cause when trade deadline comes closer and closer his trade value will go up cause teams will always be looking for defence

with the new rules the wings shouldnt have any problems scoring , only thing i question is the need for a defensive defensemen ....we lost fischer which was a big blow but getting kronwall back was HUGE , i still think we'll need something better then lilja/woolley/lebda when the games count , and chelios's old body can finally catch up to him come playoffs

[wingsfan27 1]

Yes, yes he is. Lilja has been a fantastic partner for Lidstrom this year.

Witt is a 5th/6th defenseman.

lmao

anyone playing with lidstrom looks alot better then they really are

anyone playin with detroit for that matter

im from montreal and mathieu dandenault is playing like crap but he was really good here and his speed was well used , i cant even remember him going to the net using his speed with mtl

witt is by far better then lilja , washington capitals have sucked for a long long time so he might not look like a good pick up to you but believe me he is

[Barnes52 0]

Show me where this is the reason why people are praising Lilja, and of course Witt is better than Lilja, but he's not a superstar or anything, I wouldn't even call Witt "very good" he does a good job, and he's something the Wings could use but nothing more than that.

Well, people have been singing his praises on different threads. Lilja has played well recently, no taking away from that, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves by saying Lilja is better than Witt. Lilja has had the icetime to develop and has the best defensman in the NHL as his partner to allow him to grow, Witt plays on the worst team in the NHL, goals against wise...Witt is a little overpriced, but he's still better than Lilja

[Heaton 1]

http://hockeyleaks.com/rumours.html

- Witt told reporters that Toronto and Tampa Bay are two places he'd like to be traded to

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Witt is most certainly not better than Lilja, but thanks for that lesson in "common hockey knowledge". I'm guessing you've never seen the guy play?

Looks like no one agrees with you, I hope you learned your lesson. "Witt is a little better than Woolley"...lol. I bet you think Mowers is good too!

Edited February 6, 2006 by Lou_Siffer

[gobias 0]

Yes, I certainly have been put in my place by disagreeing with 3-4 people. I'll go mope in the corner! Your hockey arguments continue to astound and impress me, oh Satan.

Fact is, Witt would be playing on our 3rd defensive pairing as he's not done anything to warrant a spot over anyone else on this club aside from Woolley. So, no thanks, I won't be trading away our valuable assets for a defenseman who gives us nothing.

It's hilarious how people think Witt is good in his own end and is a physical presence night after night. Talk about a joke, my god.

Maybe Lilja > Witt was a little overboard, but Lilja's proven he can do well here (regardless of Lidstrom) - Witt has not. Lilja could still be scoreless for all I care, the guy's not here to score.

Chalk this one up to "WOW HE BODYCHECKED SOMEONE ONCE HE MUST BE THE GRITTIEST PLAYER EVER DETROIT SUCKS AND WE NEED HIM!11!!11" kind of attitude.

Edited February 6, 2006 by gobias

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Yes, I certainly have been put in my place by disagreeing with 3-4 people. I'll go mope in the corner! Your hockey arguments continue to astound and impress me, oh Satan.

Fact is, Witt would be playing on our 3rd defensive pairing as he's not done anything to warrant a spot over anyone else on this club aside from Woolley. So, no thanks, I won't be trading away our valuable assets for a defenseman who gives us nothing.

It's hilarious how people think Witt is good in his own end and is a physical presence night after night. Talk about a joke, my god.

Maybe Lilja > Witt was a little overboard, but Lilja's proven he can do well here (regardless of Lidstrom) - Witt has not. Lilja could still be scoreless for all I care, the guy's not here to score.

Chalk this one up to "WOW HE BODYCHECKED SOMEONE ONCE HE MUST BE THE GRITTIEST PLAYER EVER DETROIT SUCKS AND WE NEED HIM!11!!11" kind of attitude.

At least Witt is sought after by several teams. Lilja was practically on a plane on his way to Europe when Kenny called him up. If Lilja turned out okay, why can't Witt? I wouldn't judge Witt on his current level of play, he's awaiting a trade. Either way, he's tougher than any player currently on the Wings and the Wings really need to toughen up.

[Barnes52 0]

Yes, I certainly have been put in my place by disagreeing with 3-4 people. I'll go mope in the corner! Your hockey arguments continue to astound and impress me, oh Satan.

Fact is, Witt would be playing on our 3rd defensive pairing as he's not done anything to warrant a spot over anyone else on this club aside from Woolley. So, no thanks, I won't be trading away our valuable assets for a defenseman who gives us nothing.

It's hilarious how people think Witt is good in his own end and is a physical presence night after night. Talk about a joke, my god.

Maybe Lilja > Witt was a little overboard, but Lilja's proven he can do well here (regardless of Lidstrom) - Witt has not. Lilja could still be scoreless for all I care, the guy's not here to score.

Chalk this one up to "WOW HE BODYCHECKED SOMEONE ONCE HE MUST BE THE GRITTIEST PLAYER EVER DETROIT SUCKS AND WE NEED HIM!11!!11" kind of attitude.

At least Witt is sought after by several teams. Lilja was practically on a plane on his way to Europe when Kenny called him up. If Lilja turned out okay, why can't Witt? I wouldn't judge Witt on his current level of play, he's awaiting a trade. Either way, he's tougher than any player currently on the Wings and the Wings really need to toughen up.

Exactly! No one expected Chelios to be the horse he's been on defense for us this year, no one expected Lilja to turn out to be a decent defenseman, fact is Witt is wanted because he's physical and responsible in his own end. Imagine Witt paired with Lidstrom or Schneider? I'm sure he'd be at least as good as Lilja, but much more physical.

[wingsfan27 1]

Yes, I certainly have been put in my place by disagreeing with 3-4 people. I'll go mope in the corner! Your hockey arguments continue to astound and impress me, oh Satan.

Fact is, Witt would be playing on our 3rd defensive pairing as he's not done anything to warrant a spot over anyone else on this club aside from Woolley. So, no thanks, I won't be trading away our valuable assets for a defenseman who gives us nothing.

It's hilarious how people think Witt is good in his own end and is a physical presence night after night. Talk about a joke, my god.

Maybe Lilja > Witt was a little overboard, but Lilja's proven he can do well here (regardless of Lidstrom) - Witt has not. Lilja could still be scoreless for all I care, the guy's not here to score.

Chalk this one up to "WOW HE BODYCHECKED SOMEONE ONCE HE MUST BE THE GRITTIEST PLAYER EVER DETROIT SUCKS AND WE NEED HIM!11!!11" kind of attitude.

At least Witt is sought after by several teams. Lilja was practically on a plane on his way to Europe when Kenny called him up. If Lilja turned out okay, why can't Witt? I wouldn't judge Witt on his current level of play, he's awaiting a trade. Either way, he's tougher than any player currently on the Wings and the Wings really need to toughen up.

Exactly! No one expected Chelios to be the horse he's been on defense for us this year, no one expected Lilja to turn out to be a decent defenseman, fact is Witt is wanted because he's physical and responsible in his own end. Imagine Witt paired with Lidstrom or Schneider? I'm sure he'd be at least as good as Lilja, but much more physical.

at "least" as good as lilja lol lilja is a joke he just looks good playing with a great team like detroit , anyone can look good playing with us and especially playing with lidstrom

witt on the other hand has been playing with a s***ty team for years and has finally expressed he wants to get the heck out of town , if i remember correctly im pretty sure scotty bowman wanted to trade to get witt years ago , im sure there was a reason for that

adding witt would be a big boost for our team , especially considering chelios/schneider and lidstrom are getting older and were gonna need some help on defense besides kronwall in the years to come ....we still dont know whats gonna happen with fischer so adding a guy whos still only 30 and can play is important if you ask me

[gobias 0]

Funny how nobody wanted Witt before the lockout. But wait, he suddenly wants out of town and is the next Scott Stevens!

At least Witt is sought after by several teams. Lilja was practically on a plane on his way to Europe when Kenny called him up. If Lilja turned out okay, why can't Witt? I wouldn't judge Witt on his current level of play, he's awaiting a trade. Either way, he's tougher than any player currently on the Wings and the Wings really need to toughen up.

Wrong. Nashville, LA, and Carolina all were after Lilja prior to the lockout and the Preds ended up signing him. Nashville wanted to re-sign him for this season but Lilja decided to play in Europe. He changed his mind last minute and ended up on the phone with Holland. Thanks though.

Witt has been a very average defenseman his entire career. You want to argue that he's tough? Fine, he's tough when he wants to play tough. You want to argue that he's a better fit than Woolley? Go for it, I agree. Don't tell me he's a good defenseman though, that's just bogus.

no one expected Lilja to turn out to be a decent defenseman, fact is Witt is wanted because he's physical and responsible in his own end.

No one did, huh? That's why Babcock has had him with Lidstrom since day 1? Ok. Babcock and Holland both knew what they were doing when they signed Lilja and there's been numerous articles quoting those two + teammates saying how great Lilja has been for the team.

Witt responsible in his own end? Heh.

Witt COULD come here and turn out to be the second coming of Chelios, Stevens, etc etc. Or, the more likely scenario, he'll come here and suddenly all the Wings fans begging for him all season long will scratch their heads and wonder why god, why did I want this subpar defenseman who rarely plays physically? Why?! For a 2nd round pick, no less. I even wanted to trade Hudler for him, why oh why!

Pass.

Edited February 6, 2006 by gobias

[Barnes52 0]

No one did, huh? That's why Babcock has had him with Lidstrom since day 1? Ok. Babcock and Holland both knew what they were doing when they signed Lilja and there's been numerous articles quoting those two + teammates saying how great Lilja has been for the team.

Babcock paired Lilja with Lidstrom because Lilja was supposed to be the "stay at home" tough defenseman that they needed. Lilja was supposed to compliment Lidstrom with his size and grit to Lidstrom's finesse and talent. They also knew that Lidstrom, as a fellow Swede, would work well with Lilja. In the past, Lidstrom has also brought along all his defensive partners he's been paired with....guys like Murphy/Dandenault etc..so it'd make sense to pair the two together. Lilja was not a top 4 defenseman until Fischer went down. Yes, Lilja has really stepped up lately, he's performed well, but he still is not capable of being a tough, gritty, mean defenseman this team really needs.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Funny how nobody wanted Witt before the lockout. But wait, he suddenly wants out of town and is the next Scott Stevens!

Wrong. Nashville, LA, and Carolina all were after Lilja prior to the lockout and the Preds ended up signing him. Nashville wanted to re-sign him for this season but Lilja decided to play in Europe. He changed his mind last minute and ended up on the phone with Holland. Thanks though.

Witt has been a very average defenseman his entire career. You want to argue that he's tough? Fine, he's tough when he wants to play tough. You want to argue that he's a better fit than Woolley? Go for it, I agree. Don't tell me he's a good defenseman though, that's just bogus.

People have been asking for Witt for a long time. Not just since after the lockout. Witt's clearly an above average defenseman. His game may have slipped this last few seasons, but it's not like there's no explanation. Washington has been awful. He's been a solid stay at home defenseman his entire career. Anything else is bogus. Not only is he better than Woolley, but he's also better than Lilja. If given the opportunity to play in Detroit he'd prove it. If Lilja had offers on the table why did he want to return to Europe? Doesn't sound like anything someone with a quality offer would do.

[gobias 0]

It's a pretty well known fact that Nashville wanted to re-sign him. He had already made up his mind to play in Europe and for whatever reason he decided to take the offer Holland gave him. Nashville would've re-signed him had they known he changed his mind. Ken Daniels has been through the story 100 times on FSN.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree. I think Witt is an extremely overrated defenseman, you folks disagree, so be it.

Edited February 7, 2006 by gobias

[RyanBarnes! 293]

It's a pretty well known fact that Nashville wanted to re-sign him. He had already made up his mind to play in Europe and for whatever reason he decided to take the offer Holland gave him. Nashville would've re-signed him had they known he changed his mind. Ken Daniels has been through the story 100 times on FSN.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree. I think Witt is an extremely overrated defenseman, you folks disagree, so be it.

Still, the question remains. Why would Lilja decide to go to Europe rather than to play in the NHL if he had a quality deal on the table? Since he is suspended in Sweden he couldn't go home. He was probably going to Switzerland, but that isn't exactly a top tier league, which leaves me thinking Nashville didn't value his services enough to offer him a good deal.

[hckypete96 3]

- Witt told reporters that Toronto and Tampa Bay are two places he'd like to be traded to

exactly. where are people getting theses rumors from that witt wants to come to detroit? i would love to see a link of something linking witt and detroit. just because people on this forum want witt to come here doesn't mean holland is even considering acquiring him. i do love the leopold idea however. he is a great young defensemen and would look nice in the winged wheel in my opinion.

[wingsfan27 1]

It's a pretty well known fact that Nashville wanted to re-sign him. He had already made up his mind to play in Europe and for whatever reason he decided to take the offer Holland gave him. Nashville would've re-signed him had they known he changed his mind. Ken Daniels has been through the story 100 times on FSN.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree. I think Witt is an extremely overrated defenseman, you folks disagree, so be it.

for someone who keeps saying how we know nothing about hockey and were idiots for thinking witt is better then lilja(which he is by a mile) who do you keep saying "nashville wanted to re sign him"

he never played for nashville !

so stop saying it

and since your so convinced lilja is amazing id love to hear how GREAT he would be in a washington capitals uniform rather a wings one lmao

your dillusional

[RyanBarnes! 293]

It's a pretty well known fact that Nashville wanted to re-sign him. He had already made up his mind to play in Europe and for whatever reason he decided to take the offer Holland gave him. Nashville would've re-signed him had they known he changed his mind. Ken Daniels has been through the story 100 times on FSN.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree. I think Witt is an extremely overrated defenseman, you folks disagree, so be it.

for someone who keeps saying how we know nothing about hockey and were idiots for thinking witt is better then lilja(which he is by a mile) who do you keep saying "nashville wanted to re sign him"

he never played for nashville !

so stop saying it

Lilja never played any games for Nashville, but he was signed by them prior to the lockout.

[gobias 0]

It's a pretty well known fact that Nashville wanted to re-sign him. He had already made up his mind to play in Europe and for whatever reason he decided to take the offer Holland gave him. Nashville would've re-signed him had they known he changed his mind. Ken Daniels has been through the story 100 times on FSN.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree. I think Witt is an extremely overrated defenseman, you folks disagree, so be it.

for someone who keeps saying how we know nothing about hockey and were idiots for thinking witt is better then lilja(which he is by a mile) who do you keep saying "nashville wanted to re sign him"

he never played for nashville !

so stop saying it

and since your so convinced lilja is amazing id love to hear how GREAT he would be in a washington capitals uniform rather a wings one lmao

your dillusional

Um, first, some other dude said I had lacked common hockey knowledge - not the other way around.

Secondly, Lilja was signed by Nashville during the lockout season.

Thanks a million though.

[fatcat6 0]

I'd like Witt here, but only because of the experience part of it. And he is tough.

Lilja hasn't been bad, but I'm not going agree with gobias and say that he's better. Witt has been around longer, and his experience would also help. And also gobias, Lilja is going to be 31 years old this year, and that shows that he's not great then Witt. You don't break into the NHL on a fluke chance.

Witt proved that he was ready to come in the NHL when he got his chance to prove it, and so yeah, Witt is better in some ways. But I'm not going to start dreaming of trades to come up with for him, because I don't want Witt through a trade.

[Seth 0]

No, I'm not intimately familiar with the scrubs/prospects you have lined up, but you follow a fairly regular MO.  Underrate our skill and overrate other teams' size. 

I am, however, familliar with Orszagh.  He is a decently good checking line player... that the Blues acquired via waivers after the Predators unceremoniously let him go because of an injury.  If he were in anyway the "missing piece" the Preds wouldn't have let him go in the first place, and for nothing.  On a team where he'd get 2nd line time (not on Detroit) he's a decent 15/30 type guy that is sound defensively.  Not what we need.  Same goes for the freshly drafted defenseman in the Dub and a Junior first liner in the NCAA.  How do these two help us this season and why would the Blues, a rebuilding team, even contemplate giving up these 'highly touted' prospects?

Now that we've boiled down the acquisitions to a checking line grinder and two big bodies at least 2-3 years away from the big show (if they even make it pro), lets see what we give up.

For that package you'd want to toss away the 3rd leading scorer in the top developmental league, a defenseman putting up decent numbers in the 2nd or 3rd best pro league in the world, a 1st round pick, and a 2nd/3rd rounder.  Holy overpayment, Batman!

I stand by the statement that Hudler alone could land at least two of them.  As could Blatak and a 2nd/3rd.  As could the 1st.

peace bub

yawn....you done? Should I get a ladder to help bring you down? and by the way "scrub" is an interesting way to describe a player who has put up 30 points or more since 2001. But hey I guess your the hockey guru right? I mean its not as if anybody should challenge your knowledge or your opinion of how this organization could improve itself. Holy Marbles Robin! I think Norris might be a little touchy when someone else has a thought.....shhhh shhhhh But hey I think its cool that as a Mod you go around and post posts with negitivity towards other posters, great way to like not abuse power or be an arse ya know.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Seth

[norrisnick 1]

yawn....you done? Should I get a ladder to help bring you down? and by the way "scrub" is an interesting way to describe a player who has put up 30 points or more since 2001. But hey I guess your the hockey guru right? I mean its not as if anybody should challenge your knowledge or your opinion of how this organization could improve itself. Holy Marbles Robin! I think Norris might be a little touchy when someone else has a thought.....shhhh shhhhh But hey I think its cool that as a Mod you go around and post posts with negitivity towards other posters, great way to like not abuse power or be an arse ya know.

Your ride his here.

peace

[eva unit zero 271]

Babcock paired Lilja with Lidstrom because Lilja was supposed to be the "stay at home" tough defenseman that they needed. Lilja was supposed to compliment Lidstrom with his size and grit to Lidstrom's finesse and talent. They also knew that Lidstrom, as a fellow Swede, would work well with Lilja. In the past, Lidstrom has also brought along all his defensive partners he's been paired with....guys like Murphy/Dandenault etc..so it'd make sense to pair the two together. Lilja was not a top 4 defenseman until Fischer went down. Yes, Lilja has really stepped up lately, he's performed well, but he still is not capable of being a tough, gritty, mean defenseman this team really needs.

Lilja was a top four defenseman when Kronwall went out.

As for your other comments..

Yes..Nicklas Lidstrom made Larry Murphy a good defenseman. Especially considering Lidstrom had never even been top four in Norris voting until he played with Murphy, and Murphy had been top four SEVERAL times by that point.

Dandenault..meh. But it shocks me that you would basically compare Murphy and Dandenault, considering they were two TOTALLY different players..Murphy being an offensive whiz who was very positionally sound and underrated defensively, while Dandenault was a lightning bolt who could contribute offensively but was not very good in his own end, as he was a converted winger.

As for Lilja, his play has improved since Fischer went down.

As for Witt, he's too expensive for what he would actually provide. Both in terms of salary and trade cost. Would be nice to have him, but not at his price. I'll take a guy like Ruslan Salei, who could be picked up cheaper, makes less, and is a better player.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

As for Witt, he's too expensive for what he would actually provide. Both in terms of salary and trade cost. Would be nice to have him, but not at his price. I'll take a guy like Ruslan Salei, who could be picked up cheaper, makes less, and is a better player.

FYI, Salei ($1.8) does not make less than Witt ($1.67).

[Seth 0]

just so you know norrisnick Orszagh got another goal last night. And great way to prove my point I bring stats, logic, and discussion...you contiune with jabs, insults and much much more. Tell ya what why don't we spare this thread and however many more. From this point on anytime you wanna post garbage like this you just PM me? Fair enough, will that work for you?

[gobias 0]

Seth, you're the only one posting garbage. NN posted his exact reasoning as to why he thinks Orszagh is a 3rd liner and retorted with a big "yawn".

You do realize in his first 3 seasons he's done pretty much nothing to warrant any praise for his offense? And that you want to trade Hudler, arguably our top offensive prospect (Grigorenko, mebbe), for Orszagh and some guys that are most likely going to amount to nothing? And you want to throw in a 1st? And you want to throw in another prospect of ours?

It's one thing to suggest a bad trade, it's completely different to completely ignore any argument other than "IM RUBBER YOU'RE GLUE LOLOL" and act like everyone else is a complete moron because they don't agree with you.