We shouldn't trade CLEARY or WILLIAMS

[redwinger4747 6]

Guys are getting really hard on Cleary and especially Williams a lot lately. I think it would be a mistake to trade either of these guys. Williams is definately having a down year, but he's shown he has great skill with the puck, epecially on break aways and shootouts. Last year he put up 21 goals when playing with better players and I think he would do the same if he had a better center than Lang(who should not stay next season). These two are 28 (Cleary) and 26 (Williams) years old and hold a valuable part of our future. They might each be 25 goal scorers with a good center and are our only good young north American forwards on the team right now. I love Europeans like Dats and Z, but I think you need a mix to win the cup.

Edited February 18, 2007 by redwinger4747

[BlakChamber 8]

This is Cleary's 7th season in the NHL. I doubt he's going to get that much better.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Who said anything about trading Cleary? Despite his lack of production lately he's still a key player on this team. He's got A LOT of heart and plays his ass off every shift. I'm sure he'll get back to his ways of how he was a few months ago. Cleary's an asset on this team and I highly doubt the Wings would trade him.

As for Williams? I'm sorry but I've pretty much given up on the guy. Great guy, but I wouldn't be so disappointed if he was traded. Better him than say a player like Hudler who has GREAT skill and will dominate with more ice time.

[Rice 42]

I dont have any problems with Cleary, but Williams is useless. The fact that you brought up his skill in the shootout further illustrates that.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Guys are getting really hard on Cleary and especially Williams a lot lately. I think it would be a mistake to trade either of these guys. Williams is definately having a down year, but he's shown he has great skill with the puck, epecially on break aways and shootouts. Last year he put up 21 goals when playing with better players and I think he would do the same if he had a better center than Lang(who should not stay next season). These two are 28 (Cleary) and 26 (Williams) years old and hold a valuable part of our future. They might each be 25 goal scorers with a good center and are our only good young north American forwards on the team right now. I love Europeans like Dats and Z, but I think you need a mix to win the cup.

You need players who make the other players around them better. Not guys who need great players around them to be good.

Actually, in the case of Williams and Cleary, they need to become good role players.

Williams is 26 and played his first games in the NHL 6 years ago. He's had time to develop. Time is running out.

Cleary is a different story. He was on a hot streak, but I don't know that anyone truly expected that level of scoring to continue. Still he's big and a more complete player than Williams. (and less of a liability).

EDITed for grammar.

Edited February 18, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[edicius 3,269]

Williams has been given his shots time and time again by Babcock. And inexplicably, Babcock continues to give him his shots. He's a liability on the power play, a liability defensively and good god, he missed an empty net from less than 10 feet away last night. The only reason he got a goal last night was due to the unselfishness of Datsyuk. Maybe he'd be more productive, more useful on another team.

Of course, given Babcock's love affair with him, I have a feeling we won't see him going anywhere this season.

[Zeke 5]

I dont have any problems with Cleary, but Williams is useless. The fact that you brought up his skill in the shootout further illustrates that.

Williams has not been the same since his concussion.Cleary is fast and hardworking,so I'd keep him. Lang on that line...lets not go there right now.

[GuloGulo 0]

Cleary is a jack of many trades. If he can't score he can play energy line. He can play checking line.

Williams can't do all that.

[Zeta Power 40 1]

Cleary digs in the corners and doesn't throw the puck like a retard. Williams just lounges around the ice really doing nothing. Cleary waits patiently with the puck and makes the right plays. Williams is afraid to get hit and makes dumb decisions. Keep Cleary, Bye JWiliiams.

[Guest Crymson]

Cleary's big change this year is work ethic. He admits as much. Clearly it has helped tremendously. He is quite possibly the best ~minimum salary player in the league--20 goals, 32 points, and he can hit, deflect, and fly on the ice, and he's a great team player. To say that he is a great deal is a massive understatement.

Williams? He has had enough time. He was hit or miss.. unfortunately, he turned out to be a miss on this team. I think he might do better on one of the lower-tier teams in the league.

EDIT: As I've said, Lang is holding Cleary down. When Lang was playing like himself earlier this season, Cleary could score, and score well at that. However, he's not the sort of player who can create plays by himself.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Crymson

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I'm glad that Cleary is signed for another year, not because i think he's great, but because we'd probably see Holland jump the gun and sign him to an extension right now (for double the current salary i'd bet) like we did Samuelsson and Lilja last year. When someone comes out of nowhere with a good season, you have to procede cautiously and consider that it may be a fluke.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Guys are getting really hard on Cleary and especially Williams a lot lately. I think it would be a mistake to trade either of these guys. Williams is definately having a down year, but he's shown he has great skill with the puck, epecially on break aways and shootouts. Last year he put up 21 goals when playing with better players and I think he would do the same if he had a better center than Lang(who should not stay next season). These two are 28 (Cleary) and 26 (Williams) years old and hold a valuable part of our future. They might each be 25 goal scorers with a good center and are our only good young north American forwards on the team right now. I love Europeans like Dats and Z, but I think you need a mix to win the cup.

There are alot of people of LGW that have short memories. Come playoff time, all you Lang haters disappear every year. Lang is not fast but he is big and strong and can fight for the puck in front of the net and that is exactly what we need come playoff time. The last 2 or 3 years he has been one of our best forwards in the playoffs. Why in the hell would we want to get rid of him? Ok so he doesn't bust his ass in the regular season. I'm ok with that as long as he shows up in the playoffs.

[Zetter is Better 0]

I think we sould trade Williams and Lilypad for an enforcer or a policeman, but who would take them?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

This is Cleary's 7th season in the NHL. I doubt he's going to get that much better.

So you're in the "can't teach an old dog new tricks" camp?

I'm the opposite. With a good coach and proper motivation a depressingly average player can have an explosion of hard work and goal scoring like never before in his career. I think Cleary's season this year proves that.

He just needs to have another burst of goals to prove to himself that it wasn't a "fluke". But regardless of whether he scores like he did in October again- he's playing like a fiend out there and getting knee deep in gritty puck battles on the boards. I'm LOVING how Cleary plays- like someone who appreciates his place on the team and is constantly giving a solid and useful effort.

Throw a decent winger out with him and watch him rack up the points again.

[wingslogo19 281]

I would take Cleary's 20 goals any season with the wings.. I don't think anyone expected him to score that many goals thus far through the season but there's no complaint from me, i think its great... He works hard, which is the main thing he bust his ass from end to end... Willy on the other hand has had plenty of time to develop and hasn't really done a whole lot.. I think that kenny would be crazy to trade away cleary he's a good player

[Majsheppard 203]

Cleary is actually a huge reason we are as good as we are.

Williams is just lost on our team. He doesn't belong and that is the complete thought you should have when it comes to him.

I do think he could be valuable to somebody, just not us.

This is what I propose, trade him to Chicago for Smolinski, and trade Lang for some prospects. Then pull the trigger on a winger at the deadline.

That would balance out our lines for sure and make us a bit more formitable.

Zetter Pavel Homer

Cleary/Tkachuck/Roberts? Draper/Lang? Samuelsson/Bertuzzi/Guerin?

Maltby Draper/Smolinski? Franzen

Hudler Filppula Langfield/Samuelsson

That looks like what we are looking at.

[Griffin 0]

what do you think we can get for williams or lang at this time?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I hate to be so blunt, but Williams sucks. He went 1-3 on EMPTY NET SHOTS. Hes reached a new low and is getting paid more than HOLMSTROM to be the worst player on the ice every game.

[Majsheppard 203]

what do you think we can get for williams or lang at this time?

Well considering what we paid for Lang, and the fact that he isn't horrible we can still get something.

No way will it be what we paid, but I would imagine a prospect in the mid to early rounds and a middle round draft pick plus some sort of conditional pick could be involved.

Best bet is Williams and a conditional pick prob around the third for Smolinski. I think that might fly, if not maybe we can convince them to take Lilja as well.

Also I wish someone would take Girotinkov in one of our trades, I think that is never going to pan out.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Majsheppard

[Schneids_is_awesome 0]

This is Cleary's 7th season in the NHL. I doubt he's going to get that much better.

Yea, well this little quote would have been believable at the beginning of this year, as Cleary seemed destined for the fourth line for the rest of his career. But with a 20 goal season, i don't understand how you could say he can't get much better. He's proven all of us wrong once and he's matured a lot in the past few seasons--he is continuing to improve.

So you're in the "can't teach an old dog new tricks" camp?

I'm the opposite. With a good coach and proper motivation a depressingly average player can have an explosion of hard work and goal scoring like never before in his career. I think Cleary's season this year proves that.

He just needs to have another burst of goals to prove to himself that it wasn't a "fluke". But regardless of whether he scores like he did in October again- he's playing like a fiend out there and getting knee deep in gritty puck battles on the boards. I'm LOVING how Cleary plays- like someone who appreciates his place on the team and is constantly giving a solid and useful effort.

Throw a decent winger out with him and watch him rack up the points again.

Sorry Drake, didn't see your response. I agree 100%

Edited February 18, 2007 by Schneids_is_awesome

[Vancouver Wings Fan 0]

An addition without giving up too much is what all contending teams are looking for. Kenny is wise and will try to do the best he can to get a good fit for the team.

What scares me is the thought of bringing in Todd Bertuzzi. Giving up any fuutre talent for that bad apple, in my opinion, would be a case of subtraction by addition! He had a reputation in Vancouver as a self centered, arrogant, under acheiver - not what a team that wins the President's Trophy consitently and bows out in the early rounds needs in the dressing room.

[BlakChamber 8]

I like how Cleary is playing too. I'm just saying I don't see him getting better and better. I'm certainly not in support of trading him though.

Time will tell if we're seeing the real Dan Cleary who wasn't used properly before, or we're just seeing a guy having a fluke season.

[wingslogo19 281]

I like how Cleary is playing too. I'm just saying I don't see him getting better and better. I'm certainly not in support of trading him though.

Time will tell if we're seeing the real Dan Cleary who wasn't used properly before, or we're just seeing a guy having a fluke season.

Nope it would be crazy to trade him that's forsure, but i think you right about the part where he's not going to turn into a super star, but if he could score 20 goals a season for the wings it would be a great thing

[Airborn 0]

What scares me is the thought of bringing in Todd Bertuzzi. Giving up any fuutre talent for that bad apple, in my opinion, would be a case of subtraction by addition! He had a reputation in Vancouver as a self centered, arrogant, under acheiver - not what a team that wins the President's Trophy consitently and bows out in the early rounds needs in the dressing room.

Brett Hull had the same reputation coming in, but the leadership in the Wings locker room kept him in check. With all the leaders we have on this team, the guy's attitude is the least of my worries. I'm more conserned with his health and rust, considering he's missed most of the season.

[wingslogo19 281]

Brett Hull had the same reputation coming in, but the leadership in the Wings locker room kept him in check. With all the leaders we have on this team, the guy's attitude is the least of my worries. I'm more conserned with his health and rust, considering he's missed most of the season.

Hey at least he's had a point per game this season .. 7 games played and 7 points