Florida Wants Hudler For Bertuzzi

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Heres an interesting stat for the Hudler debate:

Of the 9 goals that Hudler has scored, and of the 18 possible defenseman on the ice when Hudler scores, only 3 would be considered top 3 defenders, and of those 3, one is notoriously known for being a pylon in his own end.

Against NSH - Weber, Hamhuis

Against SJ - Gorges, Vlasic

Against SJ - Gorges, Mclaren

Against EDM - Smid, Greene

Against EDM - Smid, Smith*

Against CBJ - A. Johnson, Tollefson

Against Dal - Boucher*, Daley

Against NYR - Tyutin, Girardi

Against MTL - Komisarek, Souray*

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Are you kidding me? Drinking and driving while killing someone will get you jailed. Heatley didn't serve any jail time because he's a huge star and stars don't go to jail. Drinking and driving alone gets you jailed

Heatley wasn't drinking and driving.

He was driving recklessly, but he was not drunk.

His blood alcohol level was well below the legal limit.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

People need to take actions for what they've done. Accident or not, you have to take responsibility. You can't just ignore the situation because it was accidental. Do you guys disagree with that?

Bertuzzi does and has taken responsibility for the accident that occured by a) apologizing whole-heartedly publicly on television and b) paying lawsuits to Moore.

What else would you expect Bert to do? Stop playing hockey forever? I think that even Moore wouldn't wish that upon anyone so long as they realize what they did was wrong.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Oh, really? I didn't realize that.

ZB40's point was that Bertuzzi sacrificed a season and has gone through a lot of grief for something accidental. There was no intent to break Moore's neck. By putting yourself out there as a player you are willing to take the risk of something like that happening. Heatley, on the other hand was being an idiot in a fast car and killed his teammate, yet he hasn't received nearly as much criticism as Bertuzzi has. Double standard.

I'm not sure I said anything about Heatley before your post. No disrespect, but wouldn't you have to agree that both of the moves were very stupid and irresponsible?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

To say Hudler is so great because he scores every X number of minutes is bunk. If he were in a top 6 role, he wouldnt be continually facing off against the 3rd pairing and rookie/sophomore defenseman. Theres no telling what that could do to a 5'8 guy with little speed and skating ability.

[Rice 42]

I'm not sure I said anything about Heatley before your post. No disrespect, but wouldn't you have to agree that both of the moves were very stupid and irresponsible?

Of course both moves were stupid. Either way, what does the whole Bertuzzi/Moore incident have to do with him coming to the Wings?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

I'm not sure I said anything about Heatley before your post. No disrespect, but wouldn't you have to agree that both of the moves were very stupid and irresponsible?

No one is debating that.... haha

I guarantee that everyone here thinks that both moves were stupid and irresponsible, so how does this all play into Bertuzzi potentially playing for the Wings?

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Heatley wasn't drinking and driving.

He was driving recklessly, but he was not drunk.

His blood alcohol level was well below the legal limit.

Ok, that's fine. But any normal person driving reckless that kills another person is going to do some time. Right?

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

On top of what everyone else has already said, what Bertuzzi did happens EVERY NIGHT in the NHL. Players take hacks, whacks, and cheapshots all the time! The only difference between every other incident and Bert's is that a freak fall broke Moore's neck. Maltby takes shots after the whistle, so does Holmstrom, and half of the rest of the team- What if Homer crashed the crease, landed on a goaltender, and broke his neck. What Bert did happens ALL the time- yes, even at the hands of our Red Wings.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

No one is debating that.... haha

I guarantee that everyone here thinks that both moves were stupid and irresponsible, so how does this all play into Bertuzzi potentially playing for the Wings?

You're right

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Ok, that's fine. But any normal person driving reckless that kills another person is going to do some time. Right?

Not necessarily.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Ok, that's fine. But any normal person driving reckless that kills another person is going to do some time. Right?

If the family decides to press charges against said person, yes. But the Snyder family decided that it was something that didn't warrant Heatley having to pay other than emotionally.

Your right

That doesn't answer why this plays into Bert playing for the Wings.

[King Henrik40 0]

Heres an interesting stat for the Hudler debate:

Of the 9 goals that Hudler has scored, and of the 18 possible defenseman on the ice when Hudler scores, only 3 would be considered top 3 defenders, and of those 3, one is notoriously known for being a pylon in his own end.

Against NSH - Weber, Hamhuis

Against SJ - Gorges, Vlasic

Against SJ - Gorges, Mclaren

Against EDM - Smid, Greene

Against EDM - Smid, Smith*

Against CBJ - A. Johnson, Tollefson

Against Dal - Boucher*, Daley

Against NYR - Tyutin, Girardi

Against MTL - Komisarek, Souray*

Wow you need a girl man, where do you even get a stat like that?

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

If the family decides to press charges against said person, yes. But the Snyder family decided that it was something that didn't warrant Heatley having to pay other than emotionally.

That doesn't answer why this plays into Bert playing for the Wings.

no, you're right this doesn't play into the wings. everyone could argue to the break of dawn. I'm not going to change your opinions and vice versa.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Heres an interesting stat for the Hudler debate:

Of the 9 goals that Hudler has scored, and of the 18 possible defenseman on the ice when Hudler scores, only 3 would be considered top 3 defenders, and of those 3, one is notoriously known for being a pylon in his own end.

Against NSH - Weber, Hamhuis

Against SJ - Gorges, Vlasic

Against SJ - Gorges, Mclaren

Against EDM - Smid, Greene

Against EDM - Smid, Smith*

Against CBJ - A. Johnson, Tollefson

Against Dal - Boucher*, Daley

Against NYR - Tyutin, Girardi

Against MTL - Komisarek, Souray*

WHO on God's green earth do you think Hudler would be playing against? Why would top d-men be matched against him (a rookie on the 3rd/4th line)- your argument is really based on hypotheticals. Hudler has been put in a situation and has made the most of it, just as he will as he continues to develop and move up in the pecking order.

[eva unit zero 271]

On top of what everyone else has already said, what Bertuzzi did happens EVERY NIGHT in the NHL. Players take hacks, whacks, and cheapshots all the time! The only difference between every other incident and Bert's is that a freak fall broke Moore's neck. Maltby takes shots after the whistle, so does Holmstrom, and half of the rest of the team- What if Homer crashed the crease, landed on a goaltender, and broke his neck. What Bert did happens ALL the time- yes, even at the hands of our Red Wings.

Except what Bert did was unusual for the following reasons:

Moore's hit on Naslund was clean. No penalty, no suspension. Clean hit that happened to result in injury.

Bertuzzi and other Canucks repeatedly issued threats against Moore well in advance of the game in which they were carried out.

Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier in that game, and held his own. Normally, this would be the point at which it would be 'done' in most situations. Moore hit Naslund, and he paid the price of having to fight Cooke.

Bertuzzi wasn't happy with this outcome. He wanted Moore to pay by being injured. So when on the ice together, Bertuzzi grabbed Moore by the back of the jersey and followed him around the ice, totally ignoring the play. When Moore refused t ofight Bertuzzi--having already fought Cooke--Bertuzzi sucker punched Moore in the back fo the head, knocking him out instantly. Bertuzzi proceeded to ride Moore's head into the ice, breaking his neck.

Even without the injury, that situation is an extremely rare case.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

No, my point is that Bertuzzi could have just as easily killed Moore. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you. People are charged with crimes. It does matter if they meant to do it or if they didn't mean to do it. BUT they are still charged. A man could have been killed and most of you just say "he didn't mean to do it, doesn't matter"

Did you know that a puck to the chest stopped Pronger's heart for nearly a minute? Do you know that your heart stopping can kill you? Perhaps we should suspend any player who fires a puck above 80 mph.

Mudvayne, by your logic, hitting a guy in a hockey game shoulder to shoulder and causing a concussion could be penalized with assualt and battery charges. Guys like Torres, Morrow, Vishnevski, et al dont mean to do, but what you're saying is that intent doesnt matter, only result.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Except what Bert did was unusual for the following reasons:

Moore's hit on Naslund was clean. No penalty, no suspension. Clean hit that happened to result in injury.

Bertuzzi and other Canucks repeatedly issued threats against Moore well in advance of the game in which they were carried out.

Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier in that game, and held his own. Normally, this would be the point at which it would be 'done' in most situations. Moore hit Naslund, and he paid the price of having to fight Cooke.

Bertuzzi wasn't happy with this outcome. He wanted Moore to pay by being injured. So when on the ice together, Bertuzzi grabbed Moore by the back of the jersey and followed him around the ice, totally ignoring the play. When Moore refused t ofight Bertuzzi--having already fought Cooke--Bertuzzi sucker punched Moore in the back fo the head, knocking him out instantly. Bertuzzi proceeded to ride Moore's head into the ice, breaking his neck.

Even without the injury, that situation is an extremely rare case.

I don't disagree with you at all that there was some ill-will and that Bertuzzi was going after him, but I'm just saying that this stuff happens every night.

Did you know that a puck to the chest stopped Pronger's heart for nearly a minute? Do you know that your heart stopping can kill you? Perhaps we should suspend any player who fires a puck above 80 mph.

Mudvayne, by your logic, hitting a guy in a hockey game shoulder to shoulder and causing a concussion could be penalized with assualt and battery charges. Guys like Torres, Morrow, Vishnevski, et al dont mean to do, but what you're saying is that intent doesnt matter, only result.

Good point

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Did you know that a puck to the chest stopped Pronger's heart for nearly a minute? Do you know that your heart stopping can kill you? Perhaps we should suspend any player who fires a puck above 80 mph.

Mudvayne, by your logic, hitting a guy in a hockey game shoulder to shoulder and causing a concussion could be penalized with assualt and battery charges. Guys like Torres, Morrow, Vishnevski, et al dont mean to do, but what you're saying is that intent doesnt matter, only result.

What Bertuzzi did was outside the bounds of normal hockey play.

we're not talking about a slapshot, or a legal hit. He skated up behind Moore and suckerpunched him in the back of the head.

That is nowhere near the same as a slapshot or legal check.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Did you know that a puck to the chest stopped Pronger's heart for nearly a minute? Do you know that your heart stopping can kill you? Perhaps we should suspend any player who fires a puck above 80 mph.

Mudvayne, by your logic, hitting a guy in a hockey game shoulder to shoulder and causing a concussion could be penalized with assualt and battery charges. Guys like Torres, Morrow, Vishnevski, et al dont mean to do, but what you're saying is that intent doesnt matter, only result.

I don't want to argue anymore. Call me wrong if you want, does any of it matter

[YoungGuns1340 1]

WHO on God's green earth do you think Hudler would be playing against? Why would top d-men be matched against him (a rookie on the 3rd/4th line)- your argument is really based on hypotheticals. Hudler has been put in a situation and has made the most of it, just as he will as he continues to develop and move up in the pecking order.

You COMPLETELY missed the point. Thanks for playing.

Let me fill you in. My post was in response to one that said, because Hudler scores X amount of goals on the 4th line, he will score 2X goals on the first line. That is ridiculous to say, because should Hudler play on a 2nd line, he would not be facing rookie/bottom pairing defenseman.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

What Bertuzzi did was outside the bounds of normal hockey play.

we're not talking about a slapshot, or a legal hit. He skated up behind Moore and suckerpunched him in the back of the head.

That is nowhere near the same as a slapshot or legal check.

The argument is that of intent, it is an exaggeration, but the same idea. Bert did what many players do every night- retaliation is a part of hockey, unfortunately, so are freak accidents.

[eva unit zero 271]

Heres an interesting stat for the Hudler debate:

Of the 9 goals that Hudler has scored, and of the 18 possible defenseman on the ice when Hudler scores, only 3 would be considered top 3 defenders, and of those 3, one is notoriously known for being a pylon in his own end.

Against NSH - Weber, Hamhuis

Against SJ - Gorges, Vlasic

Against SJ - Gorges, Mclaren

Against EDM - Smid, Greene

Against EDM - Smid, Smith*

Against CBJ - A. Johnson, Tollefson

Against Dal - Boucher*, Daley

Against NYR - Tyutin, Girardi

Against MTL - Komisarek, Souray*

Who would you expect the opposition to put out against Detroit's fourth line?

If you assume that Hudler's line plays 8 minutes, break it down a bit;

The top four defensemen on a team usually play about 90 minutes. That means about 45 minutes during the game when one of the top four is on the ice. Assume the first line plays 21 minutes, the second line 18, the third line 13, and the fourth line 8. That means, if you cut the time off at the top, that top-four defensemen should play the first line and second lines all the time, and 6 minutes against the third line. That would suggest that the fourth line should realistically NEVER see top-four defensemen. That Hudler has scored at least three of nine goals against such types would be a POSITIVE for him, given how little he plays them.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The argument is that of intent, it is an exaggeration, but the same idea. Bert did what many players do every night- retaliation is a part of hockey, unfortunately, so are freak accidents.

True.

Bert kept saying (as other have said in similar incidents): "I didn't mean to hurt him."

which is a lie. Of course he meant to hurt him. you don't skate up behind someone, punch them in the back of the head as hard as you can unless you inted to hurt them.

The part everyone doesn't say is "that bad." He meant to hurt Moore, but not that bad.

[Rice 42]

Who would you expect the opposition to put out against Detroit's fourth line?

If you assume that Hudler's line plays 8 minutes, break it down a bit;

The top four defensemen on a team usually play about 90 minutes. That means about 45 minutes during the game when one of the top four is on the ice. Assume the first line plays 21 minutes, the second line 18, the third line 13, and the fourth line 8. That means, if you cut the time off at the top, that top-four defensemen should play the first line and second lines all the time, and 6 minutes against the third line. That would suggest that the fourth line should realistically NEVER see top-four defensemen. That Hudler has scored at least three of nine goals against such types would be a POSITIVE for him, given how little he plays them.

Eva, you've reached an all-time low with the whole statistics thing.

Do you really beleive that if you double Hudler's TOI you double his production too?

Sorry man, that's just not the way it works.