Florida Wants Hudler For Bertuzzi

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Keep in mind, if you've seen the videos of both, Bertuzzi hit Moore once and tackled him. Whether or not Moore's neck was broken by that blow or the weight of several other players piling on top has always been up for debate. Whereas Kenny went after the cameraman, not once, not twice....multiple times. After it appeared the incident was over, he did it again.

If Moore hadn't landed awkwardly or other players landed awkwardly on top of him, we wouldn't be talking about this. The result skews the perception. In no way am I defending what Bertuzzi did, but I don't see how the intent between Kenny and Bertuzzi was any different. Both were pissed. Both committed a very public act of assault. Suppose Kenny had done nothing different in repeatedly shoving the cameraman, and the cameraman had gone over a railing into the dugout, breaking his neck in the process, instead of falling to the grass?

Ive always felt this way too. In no way can you ever defend suckerpunching, but that same suckerpunch has been pulled many times and rarely does it turn out the way it did. Was it right for Bert to do it? Absolutely not. But its ridiculous to think that his end in mind was to break another guys neck. I could name off plenty of guys in this league that have done irresponsible, dirty things and because the result wasnt so severe, theyve gone unpunished.

Does anyone bring up Perezoghin taking a lumberjack chop - litterally - to another guys head in the minors? No, because the injury wasnt as severe. But it could have been. Just a few weeks ago, what if when Cajanek intentionally cracked Maltby in his face with his stick, the blade caught Maltby be in the eye and caused him to have severe eye damage. What then?

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Keep in mind, if you've seen the videos of both, Bertuzzi hit Moore once and tackled him. Whether or not Moore's neck was broken by that blow or the weight of several other players piling on top has always been up for debate. Whereas Kenny went after the cameraman, not once, not twice....multiple times. After it appeared the incident was over, he did it again.

If Moore hadn't landed awkwardly or other players landed awkwardly on top of him, we wouldn't be talking about this. The result skews the perception. In no way am I defending what Bertuzzi did, but I don't see how the intent between Kenny and Bertuzzi was any different. Both were pissed. Both committed a very public act of assault. Suppose Kenny had done nothing different in repeatedly shoving the cameraman, and the cameraman had gone over a railing into the dugout, breaking his neck in the process, instead of falling to the grass?

He did more than just "tackle" him. He had his hand on Moore's head and drug him into the ice. I don't know what Burtuzzi was trying to accomplish, but that broken neck seemed pretty intentional to me. I mean you could say all this about "ifs and buts" It doesn't matter.. Burtuzzi hit somebody from behind, then slammed his head to the ground as he appeared to be knocked out. That cameraman was aware Rogers didn't want to be filmed. It wasn't like the cameraman accidently filmed and got mauled. I don't see how you can't see the difference

[ShanahanMan 473]

He did more than just "tackle" him. He had his hand on Moore's head and drug him into the ice. I don't know what Burtuzzi was trying to accomplish, but that broken neck seemed pretty intentional to me. I mean you could say all this about "ifs and buts" It doesn't matter.. Burtuzzi hit somebody from behind, then slammed his head to the ground as he appeared to be knocked out. That cameraman was aware Rogers didn't want to be filmed. It wasn't like the cameraman accidently filmed and got mauled. I don't see how you can't see the difference

He didn't intentionally mean to injury him to the degree he did......no players do. He was just trying to defend Naslund and take out Moore......their jerseys got entangled and things got way out of hand.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Sorry, can't be bias just because he wears red and white... I'll be the first one here to take off the blinders and call it like it is... Hudler is going to be nothing more than a 20 goal scorer at best.

Only 14pts in 70 games....c'mon!!!!

....and you wish to call me "Dumb"? LoL!

We'd be lucky to get a Bertuzzi type caliber for a itty bitty Huds.

Are you really THAT dense? Do you actually watch the games, or just look at the scoresheets? How are you going to bring up how many PPG Hudler has when he only plays a few minutes per game? Here is a thread posted by eva unit zero regarding how many goals Hudler scores/How much time he plays. Hudler

On Feb. 6, he was third on the team- behind Zetterberg and Cleary; THAT is why I called you dumb. If he is a career AHL'er, then the Griffins are going to be GREAT since they'll have Kopecky, Hudler, Filpulla, Howard, Liv, and dozens of others locked up for the next 20 or so years!

Edited February 20, 2007 by ZetterBurger40

[YoungGuns1340 1]

well i am in favor of trading hudler for tuzzi, but i dont like when people say hudler will amount to nothing because hes small.....can anyone say martin st. louis. hes small, quick and can score, this is what we can hope of hudler. of course not as fast a skater, but as long as huds is smart, he should be fine. so i would do the trade, but wouldnt be pissed if we ended up keeping hudler.

side note: i really cant wait and hope grigorenko will play for our team next year. i remember he was pretty much a better version of kovalchuk back in the day, and i know this because i am russian and have family in russia. and when i was talking with my uncle who lives there and brought up kovalchuk during his rookie year, he said over in russia, girgorenko(polly spelled wrong) was considered a better version of illya...so lets just hope

St. Louis is one of the best all around skaters in the league, let alone one of the fastest, likely top 5. Not to mention, his heart and effort has never been suspect, as has Hudlers.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

What Bertuzzi did was vicious... but the problem I have is when people make a terrible incident/accident into more than it was. Bertuzzi did NOT "drag Moore's head onto the ice." There was a little force called momentum and when Moore got knocked out, he stopped skating and Bertuzzi did not realize this and was already leaning forward, thus momentum carried his forward motion into the non-moving Moore. Bertuzzi could not have known that Moore was knocked unconcious and could not brace his fall. Just realize that you, like many others who don't take a good look at that footage, over-dramatize the incident after the hit from behind. I think Bertuzzi was an idiot for doing what he did, but let's not drag him down even further with that crap - the guy was obviously remorseful and apologized publicly which is noble in itself.

Read this website http://prodtsn.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=75890&hubname= the headline says

"TSN.ca Staff w/files from CP

3/11/2004 8:44:46 AM

Todd Bertuzzi gave up the right to play the rest of this season and into the playoffs the moment he sucker punched Colorado's Steve Moore, driving his head into the ice during Monday night's game. "

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

Read this website http://prodtsn.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=75890&hubname= the headline says

"TSN.ca Staff w/files from CP

3/11/2004 8:44:46 AM

Todd Bertuzzi gave up the right to play the rest of this season and into the playoffs the moment he sucker punched Colorado's Steve Moore, driving his head into the ice during Monday night's game. "

Bertuzzi did not "drive Moore's head into the ice", nor did he mean to break his neck. Do you hate Dany Heatley too, or just Todd?

[ShanahanMan 473]

Bertuzzi did not "drive Moore's head into the ice", nor did he mean to break his neck. Do you hate Dany Heatley too, or just Todd?

thats pretty extreme, man........but its true, Bertuzzi did NOT mean to drive his face into the ice.....the momentum carried both of them face first into the ice. I'm not justifying what he did but he did NOT mean to cause the damage he did.

Edited February 20, 2007 by shanahanman

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

thats pretty extreme, man.

How do you figure? Heatley KILLED A MAN and he got a free pass- Bertuzzi broke someone's neck as the result of a play that happens NIGHTLY at EVERY NHL game and has been painted as Satan himself. The double standard is ridiculous.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Hudler has been playing around 8 minutes a night with linemates who aren't exactly offensively gited. On a scoring line--say, with Lang and Cleary--and with top-six ice time, Hoodlum would do major damage. Hudler has 9 goals and 2 assists for 11 points. The guys who have been his primary linemates--Filppula, Kopecky, Norton, Ellis, Langfeld--combine for 6 goals and 6 assists for 12 points. If you assume rather than carrying about 50% of the points and 60% of the goals from his line, he would carry about 30% of each on a scoring line..that still means that in Williams' spot he would have a stat line of 15-15-30, which would put him 5th in goals and 8th in points on the team. If you assume his +/- also receives the 172% increase, that's an increase of +12 to +19, which would be fourth on the team and third among forwards, behind only Dats and Z.

Plus, if you read the first post, it says Hudler is required 'in any trade' not 'as the sole player involved' meaning any PACKAGE of players must INCLUDE Hudler.

Im sorry but to calculate stats like this means absolutely NOTHING. IF Hudler were ever on one of the top 2 lines, he would facing TOP DEFENDERS. Do you know how easy it would be for the majority of top 4 defenseman in this league to handle Hudler? You wanna bring up Steve Sullivan?? Martin St. Louis?? You have to look no further than their speed to know why they get by the way they do. Those guys do not just have speed, they are some of the fastest players in the league. Hudler has suspect skating and is average AT BEST and defenders will have a fairly easy time containing him when he cant fly by avoid their checks.

[ShanahanMan 473]

How do you figure? Heatley KILLED A MAN and he got a free pass- Bertuzzi broke someone's neck as the result of a play that happens NIGHTLY at EVERY NHL game and has been painted as Satan himself. The double standard is ridiculous.

i know....its just.....what happens off the ice and on is different. But i do know what you mean

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

How do you figure? Heatley KILLED A MAN and he got a free pass- Bertuzzi broke someone's neck as the result of a play that happens NIGHTLY at EVERY NHL game and has been painted as Satan himself. The double standard is ridiculous.

Now don't go too overboard on this, but you do realize that broken necks can relate to getting killed, right? This may be a little over some peoples heads but there was a wrestler named Owen Hart and he fell and broke his neck and was killed.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[Rice 42]

Now don't go too overboard on this, but you do realize that broken necks can relate to getting killed, right? This may be a little over some peoples heads but there was a wrestler named Owen Hart and he fell and broke his neck and was killed.

Apparently you missed the point.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Now don't go too overboard on this, but you do realize that broken necks can relate to getting killed, right? This may be a little over some peoples heads but there was a wrestler named Owen Hart and he fell and broke his neck and was killed.

.....i'm sure everyone on this board knows a broken neck can cause serious injury and death. the fact is theres a difference from intentionally breaking a neck or accidentally.

"On November 8, 2005, Moore's Toronto-based lawyer, Tim Danson, said that Moore was skating and doing regular workouts, but continued to suffer concussion-related symptoms". He's not wheel-chair confined or anything........time to let this go. Bertuzzi is already gonna have to give out at least 20 million in Moore's repeated lawsuit attempts

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Apparently you missed the point.

No, my point is that Bertuzzi could have just as easily killed Moore. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you. People are charged with crimes. It does matter if they meant to do it or if they didn't mean to do it. BUT they are still charged. A man could have been killed and most of you just say "he didn't mean to do it, doesn't matter"

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[ShanahanMan 473]

No, my point is that Bertuzzi could have just as easily killed Moore. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you.

argh........he hit him in the side of the head......yes, this i know.....but as for fractured neck, "Bertuzzi grabbed hold of Moore's jersey and their momentum carried the two entangled players to the ice.". stop making this guy out to be a cold-blooded killer.

Edited February 20, 2007 by shanahanman

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Read this website http://prodtsn.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=75890&hubname= the headline says

"TSN.ca Staff w/files from CP

3/11/2004 8:44:46 AM

Todd Bertuzzi gave up the right to play the rest of this season and into the playoffs the moment he sucker punched Colorado's Steve Moore, driving his head into the ice during Monday night's game. "

Yeah, sometimes when you read the news and believe every single word put into it, you become the one who is being sucker-punched... Have you actually seen the clip of the incident? Because if you actually watch it, you'll start to remember that good old force called momentum.

[betterREDthandead 58]

He did more than just "tackle" him. He had his hand on Moore's head and drug him into the ice. I don't know what Burtuzzi was trying to accomplish, but that broken neck seemed pretty intentional to me. I mean you could say all this about "ifs and buts" It doesn't matter.. Burtuzzi hit somebody from behind, then slammed his head to the ground as he appeared to be knocked out. That cameraman was aware Rogers didn't want to be filmed. It wasn't like the cameraman accidently filmed and got mauled. I don't see how you can't see the difference

We can sit here all night and all day tomorrow discussing the minute details of just exactly how Moore ended up on the ice. It's been done. What I have no doubt about is this: I don't believe, and I don't see how anyone can believe, that Bertuzzi ever thought to himself, "OK, that Steve Moore, he's a punk, and I'm gonna end his career right here and now. Gonna break his neck. Try and paralyze him. When I'm through with him he'll never play hockey again." That's ridiculous.

As for the cameraman knowing Rogers didn't want to be filmed, great. Moore was no innocent puppy dog either. Again, we can go back and forth all night about who brought what upon themselves. It's irrelevant.

[Rice 42]

No, my point is that Bertuzzi could have just as easily killed Moore. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you.

Oh, really? I didn't realize that.

ZB40's point was that Bertuzzi sacrificed a season and has gone through a lot of grief for something accidental. There was no intent to break Moore's neck. By putting yourself out there as a player you are willing to take the risk of something like that happening. Heatley, on the other hand was being an idiot in a fast car and killed his teammate, yet he hasn't received nearly as much criticism as Bertuzzi has. Double standard.

Edited February 20, 2007 by ARice89

[betterREDthandead 58]

No, my point is that Bertuzzi could have just as easily killed Moore. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you. People are charged with crimes. It does matter if they meant to do it or if they didn't mean to do it. BUT they are still charged. A man could have been killed and most of you just say "he didn't mean to do it, doesn't matter"

Actually, that's precisely the reason Heatley didn't serve any jail time. So it does matter.

[eva unit zero 271]

...Hudler was better at every stage in his career than Datsyuk? Well except this one. Why is it that Hudler has been in the minors his entire career and Dats has NEVER? And they have been in the organization pretty much the same amount of time. (Datsyuk' rookie year being the year they drafted Hudler.) Hmmmm, I guess being good in the minors does not translate into the big leagues. I know, now you are going to say the same about Abdelkader, but if you look at redwingscentral.com prospect report, Justin is #6 right now, Hudler was never in the top 5, so he was never considered better by the scouts at that point in his career... That was my point...

Hudler is an NHLer who is showing high level natural scoring ability in the NHL. At this age, Datsyuk was a 9 goal, 26 point scorer in the Russian league.

Hudler had 6 points in 11 games in Russia as an 18 year old...Datsyuk had 4 points in 18 games in the same league at the same age, and it was the first year in Russian Elite league for each. Hudler had already been established as a star since age 15 in Czech league, which is considered not far below Russian league. Dats had never played at that level before. When Hudler was a top player in the AHL at age 21, Dats was a 4 point player in 15 games in Russia. When Hudler scored 3 points on the fourth line in the NHL in 12 games, Dats was a mediocre player in second-tier Russia.

Face it...Hudler has CONSISTENTLY been superior at all levels and in all leagues. His developmental rate has at the very least matched, and more likely exceeded Datsyuk's.

Oh, and on the subject of size:

Datsyuk was 180 lbs in 01-02...he is now listed at 202. Hudler is listed at 180, and is a year younger than Dats was in 01-02.

...all I was saying is if we had to get rid of Hudler, lets face it, it's gonna take someone to get someone, we would still have plenty of younger prospects with just as good as potential as Hudler, if not better...

It's universally agreed the Wings need a scoring winger. Hudler has shown he can be that scoring winger at the NHL level. He is easily the best goal scorer of all the prospects and rookies in the system.

...would you rather trade Abdelkader or Hudler for Bertuzzi?

Both would be overpayment.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Hudler is an NHLer who is showing high level natural scoring ability in the NHL. At this age, Datsyuk was a 9 goal, 26 point scorer in the Russian league.

Hudler had 6 points in 11 games in Russia as an 18 year old...Datsyuk had 4 points in 18 games in the same league at the same age, and it was the first year in Russian Elite league for each. Hudler had already been established as a star since age 15 in Czech league, which is considered not far below Russian league. Dats had never played at that level before. When Hudler was a top player in the AHL at age 21, Dats was a 4 point player in 15 games in Russia. When Hudler scored 3 points on the fourth line in the NHL in 12 games, Dats was a mediocre player in second-tier Russia.

Face it...Hudler has CONSISTENTLY been superior at all levels and in all leagues. His developmental rate has at the very least matched, and more likely exceeded Datsyuk's.

Oh, and on the subject of size:

Datsyuk was 180 lbs in 01-02...he is now listed at 202. Hudler is listed at 180, and is a year younger than Dats was in 01-02.

It's universally agreed the Wings need a scoring winger. Hudler has shown he can be that scoring winger at the NHL level. He is easily the best goal scorer of all the prospects and rookies in the system.

Both would be overpayment.

Yes Hudler COULD be the scoring winger we need, but that scoring winger being Hudler would be an easy shut-down for opposing team's defense... We need a big strong scoring winger, not a small, average skating scoring winger... That is the whole point to getting Bert.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

We can sit here all night and all day tomorrow discussing the minute details of just exactly how Moore ended up on the ice. It's been done. What I have no doubt about is this: I don't believe, and I don't see how anyone can believe, that Bertuzzi ever thought to himself, "OK, that Steve Moore, he's a punk, and I'm gonna end his career right here and now. Gonna break his neck. Try and paralyze him. When I'm through with him he'll never play hockey again." That's ridiculous.

As for the cameraman knowing Rogers didn't want to be filmed, great. Moore was no innocent puppy dog either. Again, we can go back and forth all night about who brought what upon themselves. It's irrelevant.

People need to take actions for what they've done. Accident or not, you have to take responsibility. You can't just ignore the situation because it was accidental. Do you guys disagree with that?

[Rice 42]

People need to take actions for what they've done. Accident or not, you have to take responsibility. You can't just ignore the situation because it was accidental. Do you guys disagree with that?

What does that have to do with Bertuzzi playing for the Red Wings? I think that's what this argument comes down to.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Actually, that's precisely the reason Heatley didn't serve any jail time. So it does matter.

Are you kidding me? Drinking and driving while killing someone will get you jailed. Heatley didn't serve any jail time because he's a huge star and stars don't go to jail. Drinking and driving alone gets you jailed