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yes you can say that wayne did so much on the offense side of the puck like lemieux there defense was't what people talked about,90% of the fans like scoring.Its all about balance for me.Steve had that balance.

Well the only reason why i said that was because you only put Mario there and not Gretz, and yes your right that stevie had everything, but it wasn't the pure goal scoring like Gretz or Mario

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I think it's a privilege that Detroit has had two great players like Howe and Yzerman. If there's anybody who symbolizes the greatness that was brought back to the Wings to the levels of Howe it is Yzerman. And the game of hockey has rarely if ever had a better captain. When looking for complete players and leaders both these guys far outweigh Gretzky. On the other hand who can argue with his point totals and Lemieux's game average or Orr's offensive qualities. These guys all brought something special to the game and made it more enjoyable for all fans.

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One more thing about Steve Yzerman, I cried all 3 times he was handed Lord Stanley's Cup. He epitomizes what Detroit Red Wing hockey is all about. I know for generations past they have Howe and co. But for our generation, we have Steve Yzerman. And everything I associate with this team starts with The Captain.

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Yzerman is the 5th best player ever, behind Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux.

He is also the greatest two-way player ever, and had the single greatest two-way season (1988-89, when he scored 155 points and was a Selke contender)

However, If I were building a team of all-time all-stars to play in a tournament with other like teams, Yzerman would be my first choice. Offense is plentiful no matter where you pick. Yzerman's combination of offense, defense, and intangibles was rarely ever seen in any era.

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Yzerman is the 5th best player ever, behind Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux.

He is also the greatest two-way player ever, and had the single greatest two-way season (1988-89, when he scored 155 points and was a Selke contender)

However, If I were building a team of all-time all-stars to play in a tournament with other like teams, Yzerman would be my first choice. Offense is plentiful no matter where you pick. Yzerman's combination of offense, defense, and intangibles was rarely ever seen in any era.

That's exactly it...Stevie's got the intangibles that no one else has. That alone puts him right up there. His leadership was second to none, and his ability to inspire was, well...inspiring. And the way he played in the 2002 playoffs on nothing but sheer guts and determination is one of the greatest efforts ever in sports. I'd agree with putting him at 5th best ever. He would be the first player I would choose for my all-time all-star team, too.

Just a couple more cents here - one of the reasons Stevie never got the recognition he deserved in his prime (the years he was scoring all those goals and racking up 100+ points a season) was that Gretzky and Lemieux were doing the same thing, plus they were winning Stanley Cups, too. G and L had better teams around them, whereas the Wings were still building a winning team. They were better, but they weren't quite Stanley Cup material yet. By the time the Wings were Cup bound, Stevie had changed his game to a more defensive style, thanks to one Mr. William Scott Bowman. As a result he wasn't scoring goals at nearly the same pace he had for the six seasons prior to Bowman's arrival, yet the team was winning more and eventually did win the Cup.

Add to that the fact that Stevie has always been a rather low-key person and definitely not a media *****, and you've got a fantastic player who pretty much flew under the radar for most of his career. It really wasn't until after the Wings won the Cup in 1997 that Stevie finally started to get some of the recognition he deserved, and by then he was scoring less than 40 goals a season.

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why are people getting bent out of shape because not everyone gives Yzerman the respect we think he deserves?

The thing about homerism is that part of it is because it's your favorite team, so you're biased. But there's a legitimate part of it because you actually get to see the players more than most other hockey fans and have a more informed opinion.

I'm just thankful that we drafted Stevie and I got to watch him play for the Wings his entire career. He's everything that's good about the NHL.

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I kinda go back and forth as to who's #1 between Howe and Lemieux. As far as ability, theres no question its Mario. But the fact that Howe was more complete in that he brought a physical game makes me lean towards Gordie. But Gretzky is definitely #3 i think as well.

I still think both Wayne and Mario were better than Howe. If my team is down a goal with 1 minute left I'd take both Gretzky and Lemiuex over Howe on the ice. And I'd probably even take Yzerman over Howe in that situation too. Howe was awesome, no question about that, but I saw some games where Yzerman was able to take over games with this offensive skills.

Does anyone else remember a game in the 92-93 season where Stevie showed up to a game against the Hawks on crutches because of a bad groin? He went on to record a hattrick and 2 assists. He was absolutely dominating that game and that entire season. Man he had a sweet pair of hands and incredible vision.

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At ease Cap'n Giant Text, all is forgiven.

You're right, though, the edit is on the fritz.

EDIT: But not for long.

I also did realize the text was going to be that giant. I was really batting 1.000 yesterday ;)

One more thing about Steve Yzerman, I cried all 3 times he was handed Lord Stanley's Cup. He epitomizes what Detroit Red Wing hockey is all about. I know for generations past they have Howe and co. But for our generation, we have Steve Yzerman. And everything I associate with this team starts with The Captain.

:clap:

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At ease Cap'n Giant Text, all is forgiven.

You're right, though, the edit is on the fritz.

EDIT: But not for long.

:lol:

Did I just hear a Firefly reference? :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

- Houdini

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:lol:

Did I just hear a Firefly reference? :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

- Houdini

As sure as I know anything I know this: I didn't aim to make any reference.

I must be so good at it I keep on doin' it accidentally. :cool:

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OK, so why didn't Don Cherry say it? Saying outrageous stuff is in his job description. :P

And while Yzerman is certainly one of the greatest ever players and a sure first balllot Hall of Famer, I wouldn't call him the greatest ever. At least not when Mr. Gordon Howe might hear you.

FYI: Cherry is quoted in a book regarding Yzerman's career (which I don't have in front of me right now), saying something to the effect of: "If aliens who didn't know anything about hockey came down from Mars and asked to see the perfect hockey player, I would show them Steve Yzerman".

I'll have to dig that out when I get home tonight to verify this, and I'm not saying that Don Cherry was implying that Yzerman was the best player ever, just that he did make comments regarding his opinion of Stevie on the record which serve to illustrate the overall concensus.

[homer alert]

In the context of pure offensive prowess & with all things considered, Yzerman is top 10 material without a doubt. Beyond that, his total contribution to both the Detroit Red Wings & the sport of hockey is matched only by some very slect company throughtout the history of the sport.

The rest of the intangible, immeasureable qualities that defined his career and his character leave absolutely no doubt in my mind as to just who is the best player ever.

[/homer alert]

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I find it hard to compare two different generations of players...Howe/Orr and Yzerman... thigns were different when howe and orr were playing. Goalies had less equipment,however, curbed sticks and slap shots were just making an appearance.

We'll need a new thread to discuss the two era's

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What happened top the edit function?

Anyway, the book I mentioned earlier is simply entitled "The Captain" - apparently commissioned by the Free Press soon after Stevie announced his retirement. It's basically a biography of Yzerman's entire pro career with many quotes and commentary included from noteworthy members of the hockey community.

For what it's worth, the Don Cherry quote (pg. 124) is actually:

"There has never been a more respected hockey player to ever play in the National Hockey League than Stevie. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If someone came down from Mars and wanted to know what a hockey player was, I would show him the perfect hockey player: Stevie Wonder Yzerman."

I'm not trying to beat this to death - I just wanted to make sure I got my facts straight.

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What happened top the edit function?

I think you only have a limited amount of time to edit your posts after you post them

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