Paralyzed Snow Angel of Defeat

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Food for thought eh?

Here's the spin of your topic: "Hasek is losing this series for us.. but I'm not whining or blaming him. Oh, and here are some statistics which show that he's responsible for our losses."

Here you go putting words in my mouth again. If you READ all of the posts you would see that I posted the Save % info in response to somebody posting his GAA. My point was that both stats should be used in judging a goalie.

Take some accountability: you started this thread because you wanted to scapegoat Hasek for our game three loss. Honestly, don't be a coward and try to avoid it with the "This is how it is.. but I'm not sure."

Again putting words in my mouth I never said, and top it off with some grade school name calling. Nice. I stand my ground on my opinion while 90% of this thread jumps on the "if you dislike Hasek you are a bad fan and don't understand hockey" bandwagon. I don't feel like the coward in that scenario. Just the minority opinion.

My one regret with starting this thread was my overdramatic thread description "could his flopping be any less effective".

I was disappointed with the loss and I've never liked Hasek at any point in his career despite how good he has been through the years. It takes more than pure talent for me to like a player. It was a stupid title for a thread. I acknowledge that and would be fine with a moderator making it less "Anti-Hasek"

When he got burned by Cheechoo his snow angel didn't work for him but that was also a really nice play by Cheechoo with no defensive help. The other instance that really pissed me off Lidstrom came to his rescue as he lay there on his back motionless. Beyond that, despite his out of position play, he's done decently well for us. But the times his unorthodox play burns us it drives me insane.

I don't think he has been as good in this series as some of you are saying, but I NEVER said he was the reason we've lost twice.

We're all Wings fans here cheering on the same side so I don't see what name calling and personal attacks accomplish here.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Wings_Fan_In_Exile

[OsGOD 3]

I tend to disagree, actually. Granted, I was unable to view Game 1 (Versus )

Are you able to see tonights game then?

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

The Paralyzed Snow Angels would be a great band name.

LOL it really is.

RAWK ON.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Are you able to see tonights game then?

Depends if it's on the Illegal Internets or not. Game 1 was supposed to be, but that was a lie. I went game-less (though it didn't appear that I missed much)!

[OsGOD 3]

Depends if it's on the Illegal Internets or not. Game 1 was supposed to be, but that was a lie. I went game-less (though it didn't appear that I missed much)!

Not at all. I would have rather Mr. Illitch refund me my ticket prices for that game as it was total crap.... Entertaining my arse. So yeah, you were actually saved from having to watch that effort. It was a true blessing in disguise

[Covenant 0]

... in a game where 25 minutes we played like mindless ass hats.

Great line!

[Grind Line 33 0]

You can't deny Hasek is playing poorly this series.

Well I certainly can and I do. Hasek made one terrible, horrible play in Game Two. I won't deny that. But that is a far cry from playing poorly in the series. Hasek's goaltending has nothing to do with the Wings being behind in the series.

The fact is that every team that scored less goals per game on average than the Wings has been eliminated from the playoffs. The Wings are scoring the least number of goals per game of any team left in the playoffs. Their goalie has the best GAA of any goalie left in the playoffs and they can't score enough to win. Those are the facts, plain and simple.

[Guest Crymson]

I agree with you, I think Hasek had done exactly what the Wings asked him to when they signed him, that is Give the Wings a chance to win every playoff game.

The last line about the opposite conclustions. That is simply the fact some people go into the game with certain expectations and if they are not met they come here and post topics. Were as some of the Fans watch the game and let the game unfold instead of having expectations.

I am one of those fans that Watch each and every game (that I can) because I want to see a good Hockey game,

Win or Lose. (hopefully a Win)

About the expectations: I totally agree, and I feel that the expectations are outrageous. Some of the fans here have no perspective on just how lucky they are to have such a good team to root for, and as a result are outrageously spoiled. If any Wing, especially the goalie, does not pull out an utterly insane game, they are outraged; if the Wings do not far-and-away hold the best record in the season, they moan and catastrophize; if the Wings lose a playoff game, they point fingers.

I always encourage those fans to spend a year rooting for the Blue Jackets in order to gain perspective; they might think a bit differently should they do this and then come back to root for the Wings.

However, none of them would do so.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

About the expectations: I totally agree, and I feel that the expectations are outrageous. Some of the fans here have no perspective on just how lucky they are to have such a good team to root for, and as a result are outrageously spoiled. If any Wing, especially the goalie, does not pull out an utterly insane game, they are outraged; if the Wings do not far-and-away hold the best record in the season, they moan and catastrophize; if the Wings lose a playoff game, they point fingers.

I always encourage those fans to spend a year rooting for the Blue Jackets in order to gain perspective; they might think a bit differently should they do this and then come back to root for the Wings.

However, none of them would do so.

Even though we've kind of butted heads in this thread I totally agree with you there (and this could be directed at me for all I know, haha).

Growing up in Arizona I became a Coyotes fan in '96 when we inherited the Jets from Winnipeg. A successful year for the Coyotes is being above .500 and even that is a rare thing these days.

Why am I a Wings fan you ask? (since I'd probably be accused of being a fair weather fan) Parents are from Kalamazoo so since I was a lil one I've been a Lions and Red Wings fan. Luckily the Wings and Coyotes rarely meet in the playoffs. Now being a Lions fan isn't so glamorous either.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Hasek may be playing good in the playoffs, but I'm sorry, in the playoffs, good just won't cut it. We need great. And so far, Hasek has played one great game. We need more out of him if we want to win this series.

I wish you Hasek lovers could look at things objectively. He wasn't stellar in the regular season, and he certianly hasn't been anything special thus far in the playoffs.

Just to make things clear, so I do get eaten by the wolves here, I AM NOT PUTTING ALL OF THE BLAME ON HASEK, I know we need to score more for him, but he has to be better. It all starts in goal. If we don't have confidence in our goaltending, that directyl effects the rest of the play.

Lack of confidence in their goalie? You think the Red Wings have lack of confidence in one of the best players to ever play his position? You must be mistaking Hasek with Manny Legace in last year’s playoffs.

It’s very annoying to think that some players can’t do any wrong at any time, and believe me, I will be the first to admit that it happens on here from time to time.

Please be more reasonable however. Other than Hasek’s bonehead play that led to the Sharks second goal in game 2 (a game in which he shut the door immediately after the brainfart and helped the team win) and quite possibly game 4 against Calgary, Hasek has done everything REASONABLY asked to help the Wings win in the playoffs.

To do what you want him to do requires him to let no more than a goal in every games and have an overall GAA of around 0.50. That’s unrealistic and UNREASONABLE. You must want Mutant Ninja Turtle Hasek, twice the size and strength of human Dominik Hasek, for the goaltending job.

A team needs to score goals to help any goalie out, whether it is Dominik Hasek, Dan Cloutier, Patrick Roy, Norm Maracle, Terry Sawchuk, or Greg Goldberg.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

About the expectations: I totally agree, and I feel that the expectations are outrageous. Some of the fans here have no perspective on just how lucky they are to have such a good team to root for, and as a result are outrageously spoiled. If any Wing, especially the goalie, does not pull out an utterly insane game, they are outraged; if the Wings do not far-and-away hold the best record in the season, they moan and catastrophize; if the Wings lose a playoff game, they point fingers.

I always encourage those fans to spend a year rooting for the Blue Jackets in order to gain perspective; they might think a bit differently should they do this and then come back to root for the Wings.

However, none of them would do so.

I don't understand you POV at all. You make it sound like this entire thread, all that has been said is if we had a better goalie we would have won. Or that it's all Doms fault we lost. I am really curious if you actually read the posts that question Hasek. It has nothing to do with Hasek not playing an 'utterly insane game', it has to do with Hasek not playing like he can. He has been good in this series, but not good enough. As I said before, I don't place all of the balme on Hasek, the team needs to get better. Every single player that puts on the winged wheel needs to step it up. But it starts in net. We need Hasek to be huge for us, and thus far in this series he hasn't been, there is no denying that.

As for being a spoiled fan, you are wrong. I'm not spoiled, I am a HUGE Toronto fan. I love the Leafs, outside of the Wings, they are my favorite team. How do you think I felt when they got eliminated on the last day via shootout? Yeah, I wasn't happy, but I enjoyed the race, and the great hockey that was played. Another thing I don't understand, is why would you as a fan of Team X, watch a game and not want them to win? It just doesn't make sense. If you are watching Team X just to watch them, that's fine, but don't call yourself a fan if you aren't pulling for them. Don't question my team loyalty, or passion by suggesting I root for another team in order to 'gain perspective'. It insults my intelegance.

When I watch the Wings play, I want them to win every night. I realize this is impossible, but it doesn't stop me from hoping for the best. I am a Lions fan. I know what it's like to root for a team that never has a real chance to win. But every Sunday I turn on the TV and hope they win, and when they don't, I am let down just like every other true fan is.

The bottom line is you need to learn how to have a proper conversation, or maybe even a debate if that's what you want to call it. You claim we say things we didn't say. You assume things when in reality you have no idea. And you badger people for having an opinon different than yours. Learn how to think like an adult.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The title of my thread is overdramatic and sends off a vibe that people would think I said Hasek sucks and is to blame for everything wrong in the world. I titled this thread after being pissed off with two specific plays, neither of which directly led to the game three loss, but nevertheless pissed me off enough to ***** about it.

And have we all learned something today then like Stan does everyday in South Park? Don’t create threads when you are pissed off and when you aren’t thinking completely straight then, then you won’t be misperceived.

Obviously criticizing a Red Wing on a Red Wings forum is a bad idea (some people can't seem to handle it without getting their panties up in a bunch). It leads to negative conversations such as this, which nobody needs.

Players get critiqued in here all the time. I cannot stand Hasek’s crease wandering and criticize him for that a good bit. Have you seen the endless amount of Lang and Samuelsson bashing threads this season? How about Bertuzzi’s recent thread? If I invested a dollar in every Lang and Samuelsson thread created these past two seasons critiquing those guys, I’d be a multi-millionaire by now.

Hasek is not a Greek god, but he is a very good ‘tender now even at over 40, he’s doing a solid job overall during these playoffs, and he can be criticized (and is being criticized during these playoffs) just like any other player.

I’m sorry for being snarky in these responses here, but some obvious common sense is lacking in recent posts in this thread. We all need to have some more sense.

Edited May 2, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[motorcitykid 42]

Hard to believe.. but Lidstrom has been a huge problem in games 3 and 4. Way too many turnovers. Too many soft clearing attempts.

Weird to say it, but those words are true.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Lack of confidence in their goalie? You think the Red Wings have lack of confidence in one of the best players to ever play his position? You must be mistaking Hasek with Manny Legace in last year’s playoffs.

It’s very annoying to think that some players can’t do any wrong at any time, and believe me, I will be the first to admit that it happens on here from time to time.

Please be more reasonable however. Other than Hasek’s bonehead play that led to the Sharks second goal in game 2 (a game in which he shut the door immediately after the brainfart and helped the team win) and quite possibly game 4 against Calgary, Hasek has done everything REASONABLY asked to help the Wings win in the playoffs.

To do what you want him to do requires him to let no more than a goal in every games and have an overall GAA of around 0.50. That’s unrealistic and UNREASONABLE. You must want Mutant Ninja Turtle Hasek, twice the size and strength of human Dominik Hasek, for the goaltending job.

A team needs to score goals to help any goalie out, whether it is Dominik Hasek, Dan Cloutier, Patrick Roy, Norm Maracle, Terry Sawchuk, or Greg Goldberg.

When you see Dom come out of the net to play the puck, what's your first thought? Try not to lie to yourself, everyone thinks the same thing, 'oh s***!' The Wings aren't playing like a team that has confidence in it's goaltender. I am not asking anything unreasonable from Hasek, just simply that he plays better.

If you want to talk about GAA, Haseks is 2.00 this series. With the our forwards not putting up big number, we need Dom to step it up. As I have said all along, SO DO THE FORWARDS!!! But there is no denying it starts in goal.

Tonight we need Hasek to be HUGE for us in the first period, and steal one for us. No team in this era can win a Cup without great goaltending, and in this series, we aren't getting that.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

When you see Dom come out of the net to play the puck, what's your first thought? Try not to lie to yourself, everyone thinks the same thing, 'oh s***!'

I'm sure everyone on the team, in the building, watching at home, and probably even himself think that. But so long as he gets the job done, who cares?

The Wings aren't playing like a team that has confidence in it's goaltender.

That's just nuts. Wings have nothing but confidence in Hasek, they've had it all season.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I'm sure everyone on the team, in the building, watching at home, and probably even himself think that. But so long as he gets the job done, who cares?

That's just nuts. Wings have nothing but confidence in Hasek, they've had it all season.

The problem is he doesn't get teh job done when he plays the puck. I'm not even talking about the Thornton goal, that's gunna happen every now and again to any goalie who plays the puck. I'm talking about all the little misques that he makes. Something as simple as which side he leaves the puck on for the dman to pick up. Watch for it this game, whenever he handles the puck it's almost always a chore for the dman to figure out what the hell is going on.

Hah, all season long they have had confidence? Why didn't Hasek make road trips? Why didn't he ever play back to back games? They were worried about him getting injured, or too tired. If you have 100% confidence in your goaltender, like say Vancouver or New Jersey does in their netminders, it shows. Actions speak louder than words, just look at the way Detroit plays, they don't pinch, ever. And on the odd occasion that they do, someone is always covering the pincher. That does not bode well for the confidence in Hasek thoery.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

The problem is he doesn't get teh job done when he plays the puck. I'm not even talking about the Thornton goal, that's gunna happen every now and again to any goalie who plays the puck. I'm talking about all the little misques that he makes. Something as simple as which side he leaves the puck on for the dman to pick up. Watch for it this game, whenever he handles the puck it's almost always a chore for the dman to figure out what the hell is going on.

I should've been more clear, I meant "get the job done" as in goaltending in general.

Hah, all season long they have had confidence? Why didn't Hasek make road trips? Why didn't he ever play back to back games? They were worried about him getting injured, or too tired. If you have 100% confidence in your goaltender, like say Vancouver or New Jersey does in their netminders, it shows.

I'm talking about confidence in the goaltender's ABILITY. Everybody knows about his injury past. Totally different, unrelated things.

Actions speak louder than words, just look at the way Detroit plays, they don't pinch, ever.

Cheli pinched on the play that developed into Pavel's winning goal in Game 2.

And on the odd occasion that they do, someone is always covering the pincher.

WHICH TEAM supports their Dmen pinching without support? I'm sure the coach comes out there and diagrams ways for his team to surrender 2-on-1s.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[puckloo39 5,686]

psstt! everybody, just walk away slowly... if you don't respond, he will stop. He's grasping at straws now, and not willing to listen to anything else but his own negative words.

If this guy doesn't understand why Dom didn't play back-to-backs and several other obvious points, it's clear he hasn't been paying attention most of the season. If he had, he'd know it's not a lack of confidence, or lack of desire to play or anything else relating to Dom's abilities.

[bogeygolfer 4]

It's really effective, he can't be blamed for rebound goals, thats the defences problems

[Guest Crymson]

psstt! everybody, just walk away slowly... if you don't respond, he will stop. He's grasping at straws now, and not willing to listen to anything else but his own negative words.

If this guy doesn't understand why Dom didn't play back-to-backs and several other obvious points, it's clear he hasn't been paying attention most of the season. If he had, he'd know it's not a lack of confidence, or lack of desire to play or anything else relating to Dom's abilities.

LOL--he played back-to-back games for the first time against Calgary in games 5 and 6, and look what happened!!

... we won both games, one of which was in Calgary. Heh. 'Nuff said.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You are a fuzz knocker, you know that? (I could've said something more obnoxious, but decided to be nice)

When you see Dom come out of the net to play the puck, what's your first thought? Try not to lie to yourself, everyone thinks the same thing, 'oh s***!' The Wings aren't playing like a team that has confidence in it's goaltender. I am not asking anything unreasonable from Hasek, just simply that he plays better.

If you want to talk about GAA, Haseks is 2.00 this series. With the our forwards not putting up big number, we need Dom to step it up. As I have said all along, SO DO THE FORWARDS!!! But there is no denying it starts in goal.

Tonight we need Hasek to be HUGE for us in the first period, and steal one for us. No team in this era can win a Cup without great goaltending, and in this series, we aren't getting that.

See one of my recent posts. I said clearly I hate his crease wandering. It's not going to change for you, me or anybody else though.

Again, this isn't Manny Legace we are talking about. Unless Hasek is just totally stinking up the joint, which is rare, I question any hockey player's sanity that doesn't have confidence in him. Hasek is not stinking up the joint.

Hah, all season long they have had confidence? Why didn't Hasek make road trips? Why didn't he ever play back to back games? They were worried about him getting injured, or too tired. If you have 100% confidence in your goaltender, like say Vancouver or New Jersey does in their netminders, it shows. Actions speak louder than words, just look at the way Detroit plays, they don't pinch, ever. And on the odd occasion that they do, someone is always covering the pincher. That does not bode well for the confidence in Hasek thoery.

Good grief... :nonono:

Hasek didn't make the road trips to prepare him for just these moments for the playoffs when games were played on consecutive nights. Because they have to sense to realize he's a seasoned veteran who needs rest every now and then. This has absolutely ZERO to do with a confidence issue. This was planned out all season well before the playoffs started.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

You are a fuzz knocker, you know that? (I could've said something more obnoxious, but decided to be nice)

See one of my recent posts. I said clearly I hate his crease wandering. It's not going to change for you, me or anybody else though.

Again, this isn't Manny Legace we are talking about. Unless Hasek is just totally stinking up the joint, which is rare, I question any hockey player's sanity that doesn't have confidence in him. Hasek is not stinking up the joint.

Good grief... :nonono:

Hasek didn't make the road trips to prepare him for just these moments for the playoffs when games were played on consecutive nights. Because they have to sense to realize he's a seasoned veteran who needs rest every now and then. This has absolutely ZERO to do with a confidence issue. This was planned out all season well before the playoffs started.

It's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't think Dom is god, that he isn't playing great. Put him in a San Jose jersey, and it's at least 2-1 Detroit.

If you don't think so, well, I guess your love affair with Hasek has got you blinded. The only goalie (still in the playoffs) playing worse than Hasek is Emery. So yeah, let's rally around Hasek because he is playing his best hockey. You people are comical. If we could get the Dom from game 6 against Calgary in net every night, we'd be up 3-0 no doubt. But instead we are getting the Dom that has 2-3 HUGE brainfarts every night. So go ahead, call me names, it makes me laugh. I'm not the one who is blinded by the homer lenses.

And one last question, have you guys EVER looked at anything from a different POV than your own? You might want to try it, you could learn something.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

It's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't think Dom is god, that he isn't playing great. Put him in a San Jose jersey, and it's at least 2-1 Detroit.

And you know this how?

If you don't think so, well, I guess your love affair with Hasek has got you blinded.

I actually don't like Hasek all that much actually and was not happy that he was initially re-signed here.

The only goalie (still in the playoffs) playing worse than Hasek is Emery. So yeah, let's rally around Hasek because he is playing his best hockey. You people are comical. If we could get the Dom from game 6 against Calgary in net every night, we'd be up 3-0 no doubt. But instead we are getting the Dom that has 2-3 HUGE brainfarts every night. So go ahead, call me names, it makes me laugh. I'm not the one who is blinded by the homer lenses.

Seems like everybody rallied for a win after being down 2-0 last night. Heaven forbid it be guys like Lang and Hasek as well.

And one last question, have you guys EVER looked at anything from a different POV than your own? You might want to try it, you could learn something.

We get that he's a pain in the a** with his crease wandering. We just recognize that he is still a good goalie despite a few flaws. You should ask that same question to yourself about different POV.

Edited May 3, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

*cough* just thought I'd give this thread a bump, for no particular reason.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Wonder where the two main bashers are this morning? Nothing to say??? Helloooooo????

Ironic potential fact: the nominees for Vezina are very likely going to be playing golf soon, while the ignored Hasek is still battling in the playoffs.

Who's left? Oh, yea, that Hasek guy is still there.