Why no Enforcer in Motown?

[N4C3R 0]

Anaheim carried George Parros and won the Stanley Cup. Buffalo carried Andrew Peters and tied us for the most points in the regular season. The Rangers renewed Colton Orr's contract (for 2 years) before adding Gomez and Drury to his protection duties. Pittsburg has invested a lot of time and money into their young elite scorers, they traded for arguably the Heavyweight Champion in the NHL when they acquired Big Georges Laraque. Alexander Ovechkin runs people knowing Donald Brashear has his back, and Todd Fedoruk continues to find work in the NHL.

I'm not talking about mindless goonery here folks, I am talking about a physically intimidating presence on our team. I'm talking about a guy we can send out there to send a message. Putting Dallas Drake on the ice for us is a nice step in the right direction, but he cannot be expected to fill the enforcer role for the team: it's simply not what he's good at.

So what is it about the current administration in Motown that we appear to be so resistant to carrying a heavyweight enforcer on the team? Babs likes the rough stuff and seems to have a good sense of when and how to utilize this aspect of the game. Bowman is the one I'm not so sure about to be honest with you. I think as long as he is consiglieri to Holland I think the honey potion being poured in that ear will continue to exclude the vision of an enforcer in Detroit.

What do you guys think? Why doesn't Detroit carry a heavyweight enforcer these days? What is ownership and management telling Hank and Dats here? Are they not worth protecting? Williams and Lebda last year showed us clearly what we lacked. Sure, it's only two incidents, I guarantee you the team chemistry solidifies if we send out a guy who grabs <insert perp name here> and gives him a good beating to remind him that running at our guys is a big ******* nono!

We proved last year that we could take a hit. It looks like we're trying to prove this year that we can start the hitting by adding a guy like Drake, but will we also make a statement about taking care of our own by carrying a heavyweight enforcer? Is it even necessary?

Discuss.

[Turretin 0]

How many enforcers does SJ have?

Did that stop Nashville?

[N4C3R 0]

How many enforcers does SJ have?

Did that stop Nashville?

Last season SJ carried Scott Parker and Nashville carried Darcy Hordichuk. Neither guy, like most enforcers, were factors in the playoffs. My contention is that their value to the team comes during the regular season, when the chemistry for the team is formed going into the playoffs.

-P

[TimeBinder 28]

Where's Big Snake? Of course we could lend our new enforcer Agalloch He won't stand for any chicanery OR laziness!!

[Turretin 0]

Last season SJ carried Scott Parker and Nashville carried Darcy Hordichuk. Neither guy, like most enforcers, were factors in the playoffs. My contention is that their value to the team comes during the regular season, when the chemistry for the team is formed going into the playoffs.

-P

I understand, I am tryig to point out that NSH took a lot of liberties in their series against SJ. If you have evidence that an enforcer reduces injuries during the regular season, I would enjoy reading it. However, I don't think it makes a difference in the playoffs (for which I blame the rule makers).

[lfd250 1]

Who are you going to sit???? What's the price of an enforcer?? According to Dumb Ass, sorry betman it's a kindler getnler NHL. IF the NHL calls it like it's suppose to and hands out stiff game penalties, are you going to pay a guy to sit around. Tootoo is a fourth liner that goes out and goones, however the nhl has his number and will just keep adding games. We just need our guys to take care of our guys.

Edited July 18, 2007 by lfd250

[N4C3R 0]

I understand, I am tryig to point out that NSH took a lot of liberties in their series against SJ. If you have evidence that an enforcer reduces injuries during the regular season, I would enjoy reading it. However, I don't think it makes a difference in the playoffs (for which I blame the rule makers).

I don't believe there are any reports out there with any sort of empirical evidence that shows carrying an enforcer on the team reduces injuries during the regular season. I agree that it also makes little if any difference in the playoffs. That said, plenty of successful teams buy into the notion that an enforcer is indispensable, and while I'm not one to go for the lemming approach, I know I feel more comfortable in any type of situation if I am with somebody who I know has my back 100% no matter what. If that situation happens to be an NHL game and my the guy that has my back is Derek Boogaard that can only be a good thing right?

-P

[gowings1985 0]

We should just sign agalloch to a 1 year deal and let his anger out on the actual opponents, not the harmless forum surfers.LOLl!!!!!!

[Cicada 4]

it's just not necessary to carry one anymore..

yes Anaheim won the cup with an enforce. How many games did he play in the playoffs? 5...atoi 3:49..

how many did Laraque play? 2...atoi 4:24

Darcy Hordichuk? 2...atoi 3:37

Colton Orr? 4...atoi 4:57

Andrew Peters?....0...

if an enforcer isn't needed in the playoffs...WHY? do we need one in the RS...

would an enforcer have stopped Zetterberg doing his back in? would an enforcer have stopped Kopecky shattering his collarbone? would an enforcer been able to stop Samuelsson breaking his foot TWICE?

no...

we just don't need one

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Last season SJ carried Scott Parker and Nashville carried Darcy Hordichuk. Neither guy, like most enforcers, were factors in the playoffs. My contention is that their value to the team comes during the regular season, when the chemistry for the team is formed going into the playoffs.

-P

If the enforcers value is only relevant during the reg. season, the Wings proved that enforcers are no longer (if ever) necessary to win. The Wings finished first in the West, and tied for the most points in the league.

What more do you want?

[TimeBinder 28]

We should just sign agalloch to a 1 year deal and let his anger out on the actual opponents, not the harmless forum surfers.LOLl!!!!!!

Agreed, we could probably sign him cheap and give the Pain Train a run for his money.

[N4C3R 0]

If the enforcers value is only relevant during the reg. season, the Wings proved that enforcers are no longer (if ever) necessary to win. The Wings finished first in the West, and tied for the most points in the league.

What more do you want?

Maybe I'm getting too old for this new NHL. What I want is a team where guys will stand up for each other no matter what. I didn't see that when Williams and Lebda got demolished, so apparently what we need is an enforcer to do this for the team. Until I see our team react properly to a run being taken at one of our guys I'm going to continue to lobby for an enforcer. Neither Dallas Drake nor Raffi Torres are especially big guys, why didn't anyone from our team stand up for Williams and Lebda?

[gowings1985 0]

Maybe I'm getting too old for this new NHL. What I want is a team where guys will stand up for each other no matter what. I didn't see that when Williams and Lebda got demolished, so apparently what we need is an enforcer to do this for the team. Until I see our team react properly to a run being taken at one of our guys I'm going to continue to lobby for an enforcer. Neither Dallas Drake nor Raffi Torres are especially big guys, why didn't anyone from our team stand up for Williams and Lebda?

Because it's not the 1990 Red Wings, it's not how they play hockey and not how babcock wants them to. They will bank on their powerplays from idiots giving cheapshots, thats how and why they're such a great disciplined hockey team, thats all there is to it. Though I love hockey fights and physical play, there is no reason to set yourself up for disappointment when Detroit "will not" sign an enforcer, it's not necessary, they sit talented players as it is. Why add a BENDER to the mix to fill cap space and more importantly bench space?

Edited July 18, 2007 by gowings1985

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Because it's not the 1990 Red Wings, it's not how they play hockey and not how babcock wants them to. They will bank on their powerplays from idiots giving cheapshots, thats how and why they're such a great disciplined hockey team, thats all there is to it. Though I love hockey fights and physical play, there is no reason to set yourself up for disappointment when Detroit "will not" sign an enforcer, it's not necessary, they sit talented players as it is. Why add a BENDER to the mix to fill cap space and more importantly bench space?

Babcock had an enforcer in Anaheim.

[Guest DetroitIan]

A question I've been asking for far too long...But I have to keep the dream alive that maybe, just maybe, one day, we will actually have someone in the winged wheel that can actually help protect our superstars. One day....

[gowings1985 0]

Babcock had an enforcer in Anaheim.

Are we in Anaheim??????? f*** NO!! Two way different teams so that makes no sense.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Are we in Anaheim??????? f*** NO!! Two way different teams so that makes no sense.

You just made the implication that Babcock doesnt want one....so I pointed out he had one in Anaheim...and a big lug at that.

So obviously...he's not against them.

[N4C3R 0]

Are we in Anaheim??????? f*** NO!! Two way different teams so that makes no sense.

The man still makes a valid point about your claim to know how Babcock thinks about hockey. Thanks for contributing.

[Guest jaytan]

I agree wholeheartedly with the original post, but I've given up on the Wings management to ever address this issue. You know when we lost the Anaheim series? When Pronger took his shot on Holmstrom and nobody did a single thing about it or even looked like they wanted to.

Holmstrom was practically useless for the rest of the series (I wonder how much was mental), and the Ducks clearly understood that they had broken us. We played better, but they had confidence on their side and their heads were clear.

[gowings1985 0]

You just made the implication that Babcock doesnt want one....so I pointed out he had one in Anaheim...and a big lug at that.

So obviously...he's not against them.

I never said he was against them, I said that in Detroit, Babcock doesn't need one nor is there room for one, and if he wanted one Im sure he would have one by now

The man still makes a valid point about your claim to know how Babcock thinks about hockey. Thanks for contributing.

Ok, but I never said Babcock wasn't for enforcers so you don't make sense either

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that Detroit is no longer a "goon" hockey team, or even a physical hockey team for that matter, all you have to do is watch any NHL game these days to know that even putting an enforcer on the ice is a liability (to take a penalty, make a bad play, get matched up against an opposing 1st line), Detroit simply doesn't play that game. Im not claiming to know any of Babcocks personal strategies, but as a long time player and fan it's obivous how Babcock runs his team...Disciplined and skilled, name one disciplined and skilled enforcer out there that wouldn't be a liability or complete waste of money and space on the wings??? I'm sure people agree and disagree but this is the truth and us "old school" hockey fans just need to accept it...

~R.I.P. THE LEGEND OF KOCUR AND PROBERT~

Edited July 18, 2007 by gowings1985

[Guest nutz2u]

Our pisspoor powerplay was a joke, ranked 21st out of 30 teams last season. Boy that really made dirtbags like Elbows Pronger think twice and three times b4 running guys into next week.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Our pisspoor powerplay was a joke, ranked 21st out of 30 teams last season. Boy that really made dirtbags like Elbows Pronger think twice and three times b4 running guys into next week.

Preach on brotha!

[gowings1985 0]

Our pisspoor powerplay was a joke, ranked 21st out of 30 teams last season. Boy that really made dirtbags like Elbows Pronger think twice and three times b4 running guys into next week.

Ok well im done explaining and supporting the decisions of professional general managers to a bunch of retards...an enforcer wouldn't have touched the ice in that playoff series and even "if" one had gone after Pronger, would it have changed the fact that Holmstrom got injured...No, so you people are just like the fans who want revenge all the time and don't care about the scoreboard at the end of the game

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

With all of the cheapshots that this team was on the receiving end of last year, you'd think Holland would have learned his lesson by now. This year we need an enforcer more than anybody, especially since our roster isn't as deep as it's been in past years, thus we can't afford more injuries. As for those of you who are concerned with enforcers taking up roster spots, don't forget that we had a lot of fourth liners last year that couldn't produce any numbers either, such as Langeld, Hussey, Kopecky, Ellis, etc.

[stormboy 47]

I agree wholeheartedly with the original post, but I've given up on the Wings management to ever address this issue. You know when we lost the Anaheim series? When Pronger took his shot on Holmstrom and nobody did a single thing about it or even looked like they wanted to.

Holmstrom was practically useless for the rest of the series (I wonder how much was mental), and the Ducks clearly understood that they had broken us. We played better, but they had confidence on their side and their heads were clear.

i think i disagree with this post. didn't homer get another assist after coming back that very game? yes, our powerplay was weak last season. but if that's better this season, i think the way to get back at cheap shots is by scoring on the team. i, for one, really respect that the wings are a classy organization. someone takes a cheap shot at homer, they don't respond by stooping to the same level.

now, i can see the value of someone wanting to take on pronger in a fair fight after his hit on homer. but what if they lose? how does that get the team pumped up any more? i think if you get angry at a cheap shot, take it out by digging deep and playing hockey with heart, anger and determination. i don't think that having a fight is necessary to get players going.

i'll agree that the wings maybe showed a lack of resolve after the hit on homer. i'm not sure if that's something that can be addressed or not. i guess the bottom line for me is that if having an enforcer helps you win games, then do it. i guess i'm not convinced that having someone who throws punches would have made pronger not hit homer like that. i could be wrong, but i'm not convinced.

and i agree with the posters who have asked who are we going to sit if we add someone who gets eight points a season and two hundred penalty minutes? maybe one of the new kids. but i woudn't want to give up kopecky's roster spot so that some guy can be a -10 and occasionally fight someone. it doesn't seem to make sense.

With all of the cheapshots that this team was on the receiving end of last year, you'd think Holland would have learned his lesson by now. This year we need an enforcer more than anybody, especially since our roster isn't as deep as it's been in past years, thus we can't afford more injuries. As for those of you who are concerned with enforcers taking up roster spots, don't forget that we had a lot of fourth liners last year that couldn't produce any numbers either, such as Langeld, Hussey, Kopecky, Ellis, etc.

that last bit is a good point. i got pretty tired of watching ellis skate around the ice and accomplish nothing. i guess having a bruiser couldn't have been much WORSE, although ellis -- while not producing anything -- wasn't guilty of a lot of bad givaways leading to goals, either.

i'd be interested to hear from a fan that watches every game of a team with an enforcer in today's NHL with the instigator rule and everything if they feel it's reduced "cheap shots." there's not really a way to view that statistically; you kind of just have to watch the games.