Revisiting the Jack Johnson Trade

[Hank 0]

Okay, I'm well aware that I'm not an NHL GM, but this deal still makes me shake my head.

Last night on XM Home Ice they were talking to Jim Fox who does the play-by-play for Kings games. He said that watching Johnson in camp and throughout the preseason, you know he's the real deal. He can skate, pass, contribute offensively as well as hit and not make many mistakes in his own zone. And with time he'll only get better. He said it's not a stretch to believe this guy won't win some major individual awards before his career is over.

The way he described him, all I could think of was "Ray Bourque".

I know that the Canes had some serious injury issues on the backend last season as well as having problems convincing Johnson to leave school, but I still don't know why they decided to deal one of the best blue-chip blueliners in the past decade for a couple of scrubs.

Belanger and Gleason will never be in the top half of their lineups.

If the Canes were that desperate to land help on the blueline I'm sure they could have gotten more.

This deal and the Thornton deal still make me wonder if someone was smoking something.

What are your thoughts? Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture?

[Cicada 4]

well, Belanger already gone, and Gleason was never worth much anyway..

also Oleg Turnoverdovsky went to the Kings as well, as a salary dump and now he's gone to Russia, the kings don't have to worry about it.

100% Kings win

[Doctor G 0]

This trade also made me wonder. I have only seen Johnson in a handful of games so I am not ready to say he will be a great defenseman, but he has all the talent in the world and YOU do not make that trade.

As far as the Thorton trade, that is why Boston is one of the worst run organizations in hockey. They have been bad for a very long time. Jeremy Jacobs (Bettman's butt buddy) is a terrible owner and their GM's have been horrible.

[Packer487 3]

One of the worst trades in history, bar none. And if he was available for that little of a price, I wish we had found a way to get in on it. Guys of that caliber don't become available all that often, especially for a couple of scrubs.

The fact that Carolina missed the playoffs last year makes it even worse, because they obviously were looking to sure up the team for last season.

They're going to regret that move for a long, long time....

[wingsfan40 0]

One of the worst trades in history, bar none. And if he was available for that little of a price, I wish we had found a way to get in on it. Guys of that caliber don't become available all that often, especially for a couple of scrubs.

The fact that Carolina missed the playoffs last year makes it even worse, because they obviously were looking to sure up the team for last season.

They're going to regret that move for a long, long time....

I couldnt agree more

[Hank 0]

This trade also made me wonder. I have only seen Johnson in a handful of games so I am not ready to say he will be a great defenseman, but he has all the talent in the world and YOU do not make that trade.

As far as the Thorton trade, that is why Boston is one of the worst run organizations in hockey. They have been bad for a very long time. Jeremy Jacobs (Bettman's butt buddy) is a terrible owner and their GM's have been horrible.

What makes me laugh is that I have a buddy that thinks Boston got the better of that deal. He went on and on saying "You watch! Marco Sturm is going to be better than Thornton!". I laughed so hard!

Two years later I'll ask him, "Still think Boston got the better of that deal?". He's so stubborn he still stands by his statement. I guess that's why he never wins anything in our hockey pools.

[Opie 308]

I think the Wings should throw an offer at the B's for Kessel. Some stupid deal like a bag of pucks, Meech, and a ham sandwich. I bet the B's bite on it.

I would have said Bergeron but he is locked up long term, which is a move that surprises me coming out of Boston.

Where, I've never seen them give him credit for anything? Even his individual accomplishments were creditted to his teammates and playing on great teams and having great coaches.

What makes me laugh is that I have a buddy that thinks Boston got the better of that deal. He went on and on saying "You watch! Marco Sturm is going to be better than Thornton!". I laughed so hard!

Two years later I'll ask him, "Still think Boston got the better of that deal?". He's so stubborn he still stands by his statement. I guess that's why he never wins anything in our hockey pools.

That's rich, yeah Marco Sturm will eventually be better than one of the best players of the last 5 years and will be for probably the next 5.

Yeah and Monkeys might fly out of my but!!

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

I think the Wings should throw an offer at the B's for Kessel. Some stupid deal like a bag of pucks, Meech, and a ham sandwich. I bet the B's bite on it.

I would have said Bergeron but he is locked up long term, which is a move that surprises me coming out of Boston.

That's rich, yeah Marco Sturm will eventually be better than one of the best players of the last 5 years and will be for probably the next 5.

Yeah and Monkeys might fly out of my but!!

I like the way you think.

Who do you think has the worst management..

1. Boston

2. NYI

3. Phoenix

4. other?

I threw Phoenix in because I've followed that Franchise since the move from Winnepeg and they have made some boneheaded trades & signings and remained bad for over a decade. (example Briere and a 2nd for Gratton and a 3rd).

I still think the Islanders are the biggest morons.

[Izzy24 44]

As bad as the Johnson trade looks now, I think it'll look even worse once we see what he can do.

[Opie 308]

Being from New England and having lived here all my life, watching the Red Sox swoon and rebuild, then watching the Pats swoon and rebuild, and now it looks like the C's will do it too.

Then there are the B's, and people wonder why I am not a B's fan!

I have watched too, too much of them developing talent only to trade it for a multiple player deal.

Or picking up a guy too late in his career to get 2-3 very good years out of them and then have to eat the rest of a 6 year deal.

They are the worst judge of when to get rid of or pick up talent.

[Hank 0]

I think the Wings should throw an offer at the B's for Kessel. Some stupid deal like a bag of pucks, Meech, and a ham sandwich. I bet the B's bite on it.

LOL. The only thing that would prevent this deal is Jacobs' hatred of Illitch.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Hank

[Opie 308]

LOL. The only thing that would prevent this deal is Jacobs hatred of Illitch.

Yeah but he loves ham sandwiches, that would be the kicker. The slice of pig flesh with some mustard and cheese and this man will love Illitch forever and we could use the B's as a second farm team. Just let them draft and build up good players only to trade them to Detroit for Pork Products and By Products!!

[Hank 0]

Yeah but he loves ham sandwiches, that would be the kicker. The slice of pig flesh with some mustard and cheese and this man will love Illitch forever and we could use the B's as a second farm team. Just let them draft and build up good players only to trade them to Detroit for Pork Products and By Products!!

If they threw in a giant vault for Jacobs to swim around in his money, I think this deal could happen.

Nobody likes swimming in money like Scrooge Jacobs.

Now if the vault came filled with Ham sandwiches, then we'd probably get Chara and Bergeron too!

Edited September 25, 2007 by Hank

[Turkey 0]

I couldn't agree more. I was totally baffled when this trade was made and I remain baffled. Seems like a panic move to me. I suppose there could have been some kind of personality issue between Johnson and the 'Canes front office but I can't imagine it was so bad as to trade him away for nothing, which is basically what they did.

[#1redwingfan 0]

i heard he didnt want to play in carolina... which didnt make sense because they just won the cup. i could be wrong, but i just remember hearing it.

[Hank 0]

i heard he didnt want to play in carolina... which didnt make sense because they just won the cup. i could be wrong, but i just remember hearing it.

That could be true. But I GOTTA believe that they could have gotten more than Belanger and Gleason for him.

There were plenty of rumours circulating that the Pens were offering Jordan Staal for him.

Can you imagine the Pens with Johnson? With Whitney they'd have the best young 1-2 defenseman punch in the league as well as the best 1-2 punch down the middle with Sid and Malkin. Yow!

Recchi-Crosby-Sykora

Roberts-Malkin-Armstrong

Malone-Christianson-Talbot

Ruutu-Stone -Laraque

Whitney-Gonchar

Johnson-Letang

Sydor-Orpik

Fluery

Sabourin

This lineup isn't fair (even if you keep the real roster with Staal instead of Johnson).

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Okay, I'm well aware that I'm not an NHL GM, but this deal still makes me shake my head.

Last night on XM Home Ice they were talking to Jim Fox who does the play-by-play for Kings games. He said that watching Johnson in camp and throughout the preseason, you know he's the real deal. He can skate, pass, contribute offensively as well as hit and not make many mistakes in his own zone. And with time he'll only get better. He said it's not a stretch to believe this guy won't win some major individual awards before his career is over.

The way he described him, all I could think of was "Ray Bourque".

I know that the Canes had some serious injury issues on the backend last season as well as having problems convincing Johnson to leave school, but I still don't know why they decided to deal one of the best blue-chip blueliners in the past decade for a couple of scrubs.

Belanger and Gleason will never be in the top half of their lineups.

If the Canes were that desperate to land help on the blueline I'm sure they could have gotten more.

This deal and the Thornton deal still make me wonder if someone was smoking something.

What are your thoughts? Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture?

Well, you pointed out some of the issues. Part of me wonders if Johnson didn't want to play in Carolina period. A little Lindros "i won't play in Quebec" type deal. That we'll never know.

As for Gleason. He's not spectacular at all but I think the Canes saw some good things in him. I remember watching him play and noting how big he was and that he could stand up and fight a bit if need be.

He's a solid 215 lbs and his first full tilt in LA on a bad team he was an even player through 78 games. Add in the 21 points and he showed some signs of being pretty good.

Don't forget Gleason was also a 1st round pick and is only 24 years old.

In the end, Johnson should be the far superior player to Gleason. Although I think Gleason has good upside. The discrepancy is so noticeable though that I can only assume he told somebody in the Cane brass, "I ain't playing for you guys"

[Hank 0]

Well, you pointed out some of the issues. Part of me wonders if Johnson didn't want to play in Carolina period. A little Lindros "i won't play in Quebec" type deal. That we'll never know.

As for Gleason. He's not spectacular at all but I think the Canes saw some good things in him. I remember watching him play and noting how big he was and that he could stand up and fight a bit if need be.

He's a solid 215 lbs and his first full tilt in LA on a bad team he was an even player through 78 games. Add in the 21 points and he showed some signs of being pretty good.

Don't forget Gleason was also a 1st round pick and is only 24 years old.

In the end, Johnson should be the far superior player to Gleason. Although I think Gleason has good upside. The discrepancy is so noticeable though that I can only assume he told somebody in the Cane brass, "I ain't playing for you guys"

I have nothing against Gleason but the most he'll ever be is a 5th or 6th dman. The only chance he has of being anything higher is if he goes to a really, really bad team.

He reminds me a lot of Lebda. They can both skate, are sound in their zone, can make a nice first-pass at times, but will never be confused for a top dman in the league.

Gleason was a first round draft pick but so was Dan Cleary, Todd Warrener and Jason Bonsignore. It doesn't always mean they should have been drafted that high.

However, I do agree with a lot that you say about Gleason but in my mind, there is nothing in his game that says "we need to trade the highest ranked dman outside of the NHL for him".

They could have gotten a lot more and it's hard to believe that with a few more days and phone calls this couldn't have been done.

Like a lot of people here have said, I really believe this deal, over the next 10 years, will go down as one of the worst and most lopsided deals in league history. Right up there with:

Russ Courtnall for John Kordic

Gilmour for <a bunch of crap from Toronto>

Adam Oates for Bernie Federko (I know there were more guys involved - McKegney, but this is what it boiled down to)

Thornton for Sturm, Stuart and Primeau

Luongo and Jokinen for Parrish and Kvasha

Edited September 25, 2007 by Hank

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Luongo and Kraijeck for Bert and Allen looks pretty bad right about now too.

Luongo being the best goalie in the league and Bertuzzi having been on 2 different teams since Florida.

The Johnson trade is looking horrible too, Carolina were desperate though, and Johnson wasent gonna come and play.

Thornton trade is by far the worst, Sturm is a 2nd line 25-30 goal scorer, Wayne Primeau's on the Flames, and Stuart is on the Kings.

None of those deals are as bad as every trade the Isles have ever made.

Luongo, Jokinen, Bertuzzi, Chara, a 1st rounder that turned into Jason Spezza, and alot more. They'd be a powerhouse now if they hadent traded all there stars away.

[Izzy24 44]

Check out

, poor Cory Schneider.

[theman19 47]

let me clear the air in this one. As someone who lives in North Carolina i can tell you Jack Johnson basically pulled an Eric Lindros but he did it alot smoother. He made it very clear to Carolina that he was never going to play for there team. To the media however he was like "oh i'm going to finish school blah blah, i won't play for four years,..blah blah" The whole time he's telling Carolina managment i'm not playing for your team, as he rejects contract after contract by Carolina. His Dad also told the Carolina media that no matter where he plays he's going to be the highest paid player. So, after saying he's going to finish school for two years,...he's traded and immediately signs a contract.

Now i'm not saying he's evil, or anything else, it was probably a good business move on his part and Yes Carolina got totally hosed on this trade. But, it wasn't a case of Carolina just being dumb for dumb sake,...Johnson orchistrated this whole thing behind the scenes.

[#1redwingfan 0]

let me clear the air in this one. As someone who lives in North Carolina i can tell you Jack Johnson basically pulled an Eric Lindros but he did it alot smoother. He made it very clear to Carolina that he was never going to play for there team. To the media however he was like "oh i'm going to finish school blah blah, i won't play for four years,..blah blah" The whole time he's telling Carolina managment i'm not playing for your team, as he rejects contract after contract by Carolina. His Dad also told the Carolina media that no matter where he plays he's going to be the highest paid player. So, after saying he's going to finish school for two years,...he's traded and immediately signs a contract.

Now i'm not saying he's evil, or anything else, it was probably a good business move on his part and Yes Carolina got totally hosed on this trade. But, it wasn't a case of Carolina just being dumb for dumb sake,...Johnson orchistrated this whole thing behind the scenes.

yeah this was the impression i was under

[Turkey 0]

Check out

, poor Cory Schneider.

Yeah, I love the decapitation shot. That is a fabulous vid. Some of the Jack Johnson stuff on Youtube is priceless.

[Guest Crymson]

I like the way you think.

Who do you think has the worst management..

1. Boston

2. NYI

3. Phoenix

4. other?

I threw Phoenix in because I've followed that Franchise since the move from Winnepeg and they have made some boneheaded trades & signings and remained bad for over a decade. (example Briere and a 2nd for Gratton and a 3rd).

I still think the Islanders are the biggest morons.

Chicago.

[eva unit zero 271]

Luongo, Jokinen, Bertuzzi, Chara, a 1st rounder that turned into Jason Spezza, and alot more. They'd be a powerhouse now if they hadent traded all there stars away.

Bertuzzi was a third liner who was not showing any signs of improving. Chara was the team's 5th defenseman and was in general a disappointment on the Isle. Jokinen was a huge bust for the Islanders. All of those guys performed FAR better after leaving than they ever indicated they were capable of while in the uniform. And they aren't even close to the wost deals ever made, as the Islanders got some decent talent coming back to them. Parrish and Kvasha both led the Islanders in scoring, something Jokinen never did. Chara was behind Eric Cairns on the depth chart before he was traded...Cairns wouldn't even have made Ottawa's lineup during Chara's time there. Spezza and Luongo were the only players traded away who weren't considered busts at that point. Luongo was expendable because the team felt Dipietro was the better looking prospect, which for a team that was often forced to trade players due to salary has definitely held true today; the Isles will be able to hold onto Dipietro for his career, while Florida was forced to trade Luongo due to salary demands, as the Isles would have been. Not to mention, Florida dealt Luongo away for less in return, even though he was worth considerably more than when the Isles dealt him. Yes, on the whole the Isles have been hosed. But none of their multitude of bad deals has ever really been nearly as bad as some of the other deals that have gone down around the league that are mentioned in this thread.