Hockeytown is DEAD

[Avalanche Warning 0]

Yeah, big ******* deal.

Tell me again: what was the Blackhawks average attedance last year? Oh, I do believe that was around 12,000, good enough for 29th in the league.

When your own team becomes a success, then you can trash talk. I haven't seen that happen yet, though, and one meaningless win over the Wings proves nothing. The playoffs don't start in October, in case you're too young and stupid to know that.

It makes the ownership careless of the teams success.

The Toronto Maple Leafs, for example, never have to worry about building a successful team. They'll reap the benefits of the sellouts regardless, and the income brought in from TV contracts and whatever else. The Detroit Lions are another good example of that cause.

The Wings are a good team, but the ownership, as far as fan relations go, is terrible. The ridiculous ticket prices and the isolation from the players is the reason the fans don't go. Couple that with the retirement of Yzerman, the loss of Shanny and McCarty, and a not very overall exiting team, and you have a recipe for empty seats. It's as simple as that.

I see your point, but the pressure for a winner in Toronto is unbelievable. Every little move is under the microscope, but unfortunately the media and fans care more about the team than MLSE.

[Avalanche Warning 0]

Saturday.

I thought the United Center held over 20,000? The official attendance was around 18,000 on NHL.com

[Kp-Wings 3]

I thought the United Center held over 20,000? The official attendance was around 18,000 on NHL.com

The official capacity of the United Center is around 20,500. Their attendance last Saturday was around 18,150, which is clearly not a sellout.

This idiot doesn't know what he's talking about. The Blackhawks haven't sold out a game since October 5th, 2005. They've been in the bottom 5 in attendance for about 8-9 years.

I know they have an excuse because they were bad, but it's annoying as hell when this guy comes on here and preaches to us about sellouts, and yet his team has been in the 5 bottom for attendance for the past decade, and haven't sold out an actual game in over 2 years.

Ownership or not, the fact still stands: the Blackhawks have had the worst attedance in the entire league the past few years. Usually they switch off every year with some other bad team for having the worst, such as Phoenix or St. Louis, but overall they have had the worst attendance in the league for quite a while now. Even the season they last made the playoffs 2001-2002, their attendance was low.

I am fully aware of the Wings attendance issues, but this guy has no room to talk. The 'Hawks are far and beyond the least supported team in the league.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[StormJH1 231]

Wow, the Wings had attendance of 17600 for one game, and Hockeytown is dead? Hmm, let's see...even if they average that for the rest of the season, that still put them in the top half of the league. And one thing Sharp fails to take into consideration? The Michigan economy sucks, AND taxes were just raised. For the average two-parent household with two kids, living on one income making $25,000 a year, the tax increase works out to about $70. Hmm...what else could have been purchased for that $70?

Sure, the tax increase. Is it possible that taxes were raised at any other point in the past two decades? Or in states other than Michigan? We didn't see attendance this poor in those instances.

Also, you need to realize that there's a difference between reported attendance and who actually shows up to the games. If people or companies are buying tickets, and make a conscious choice not to drive downtown, park, get on the People Mover and go to a game, that worries me even more than poor sales.

I seriously doubt any one family looked at their bottom line and said "Oh crap, taxes went up, there goes our Wings game for the year." Hockey tickets are disposable income, people spend $70 a year (or much much more) on candy bars, gum, and Starbucks coffee. The point is that they're not CHOOSING to spend it on the Wings, and you can't deny that there are other reasons for that. I moved to another state (which, I suppose, partially explains this phenomenon), and I'm stunned to turn on Wings games and see all the empty seats. But then again, if I didn't stay, how can I expect others to stay and go to Wings games?

[lets go pavel 2]

Sure, the tax increase. Is it possible that taxes were raised at any other point in the past two decades? Or in states other than Michigan? We didn't see attendance this poor in those instances.

Also, you need to realize that there's a difference between reported attendance and who actually shows up to the games. If people or companies are buying tickets, and make a conscious choice not to drive downtown, park, get on the People Mover and go to a game, that worries me even more than poor sales.

I seriously doubt any one family looked at their bottom line and said "Oh crap, taxes went up, there goes our Wings game for the year." Hockey tickets are disposable income, people spend $70 a year (or much much more) on candy bars, gum, and Starbucks coffee. The point is that they're not CHOOSING to spend it on the Wings, and you can't deny that there are other reasons for that. I moved to another state (which, I suppose, partially explains this phenomenon), and I'm stunned to turn on Wings games and see all the empty seats. But then again, if I didn't stay, how can I expect others to stay and go to Wings games?

ummm ... hockey tickets for a family of 4 or even for 2 is not the same as candy bars and bubble gum ... is it disposable income ... yes ... but people aren't standing in the middle of the grocery store going "hmm ... candy bar, hockey game, candy bar, hockey game ... i think i want candy bar" ... dropping $1 for a candybar is a lot easier to do than dropping $200+ for a hockey game ... i often have a dollar i don't need, but i can't remember the last time i had $200 i didn't need ... the decision to go to a hockey game is more than just disposable income, it is a bigger occasion than purchasing candy and one where finances do figure in ...

[19 C 0]

Hockeytown is dead

- Home opener didn't sell out!!

- massive amounts of empty seats during playoffs

- being able to buy playoff tickets day of game!

- the crowd cheers more for Mo Cheese than they do when the Wings score

[joey_corleone 0]

Hockeytown is dead

- Home opener didn't sell out!!

- massive amounts of empty seats during playoffs

- being able to buy playoff tickets day of game!

- the crowd cheers more for Mo Cheese than they do when the Wings score

Yeah I thought it was pretty sad last night when the loudest parts of the game were for

1) Orange Hat Guy

2) The Knitting Lady

3) Some soldier returning from the war

Don't get me wrong, I got up and cheered for the guy too...but why is the crowd completely dead the rest of the game? Some fool from Edmonton in front of me was louder than the rest of the whole rink.

[Avalanche Warning 0]

Did this just not happen to the braves? The reason people aren't showing up to games anymore is because winning isn't special anymore. The people are used to it. Until the Jackets ,Hawks and Blues become legitimate contendors so the Wings actually have some competition, JLA will be empty.

[The Enforcer 13]

Drew Sharp-article

I cannot really explain this being so severe. I will say I had class and while I was home for the game, I couldn't be downtown for the game.

I don't buy any of the reasons given for people not showing up.

My money is on people being generally uninterested in hockey and blame ESPN and foolish Americans in general.

Anyone think a real price drop is in the future?

Nope. Illitch might tweak it a little, but no price drop. You are correct about ESPN, Hockey interest and Gary Buttf**kman generally destroying the league. I have no interest in hashing it over what we all have been bitching about. My money will not go to tickets for the Wings or any other team unless they are give-aways or free this year.

The NGBHL is dying.

[OsGOD 3]

I just think it is because Hockey sucks actually. Who cares any more hockey is the biggest joke of professional sports... if you can even call it a sport.

[BlakChamber 8]

Sure, the tax increase. Is it possible that taxes were raised at any other point in the past two decades? Or in states other than Michigan? We didn't see attendance this poor in those instances.

Also, you need to realize that there's a difference between reported attendance and who actually shows up to the games. If people or companies are buying tickets, and make a conscious choice not to drive downtown, park, get on the People Mover and go to a game, that worries me even more than poor sales.

I seriously doubt any one family looked at their bottom line and said "Oh crap, taxes went up, there goes our Wings game for the year." Hockey tickets are disposable income, people spend $70 a year (or much much more) on candy bars, gum, and Starbucks coffee. The point is that they're not CHOOSING to spend it on the Wings, and you can't deny that there are other reasons for that. I moved to another state (which, I suppose, partially explains this phenomenon), and I'm stunned to turn on Wings games and see all the empty seats. But then again, if I didn't stay, how can I expect others to stay and go to Wings games?

While I doubt that there are that many people that would have gone to the games but for the tax hike, when you factor in the overall economy of the state and the fact that taxes are going up, more people are probably going to tighten up spending with their disposable income.

[joey_corleone 0]

While I doubt that there are that many people that would have gone to the games but for the tax hike, when you factor in the overall economy of the state and the fact that taxes are going up, more people are probably going to tighten up spending with their disposable income.

I would definitely say the changes to the league are effecting attendance. Bettman has truly ruined our game. It took him over a decade to do it, but finally he has met his goal. The NHL is a complete joke. It's not the game we grew up with, it's not the game the players grew up with.

[OsGOD 3]

Hey guess what our economy is doing SO WELL 1,100 MORE people are jobless down here who used to work for Chrysler as recent as yesterday... And also guess what? the UAW is planning a strike as early as midnight tomorrow which will cause my company to layoff people... Just found out that little tidbit about 25 mins ago... so as much as i Love hockey and would love to spend $100 to see a game as I have in the past... i have to say EFFFFF attending a game now. Other thigs are more important.. am i a lesser caring fan because I watch them on TV... hell nooo... wait about 8 more years of not winning and I bet the people chastsing those living here not attending will have fallen by the wayside.

Edited October 9, 2007 by OsGOD

[Guest jaytan]

It's tough, though, because you HAVE to take a better European player over a weaker North American player. I don't think you can take a player just because of where he is from. It's about winning.

One thing you're forgetting here: A lot of European guys may be "better", technically, than their North American counterparts, but often the desire to succeed in the NHL (and the work ethic to do so) is lacking. Many of these guys could care less about the Stanley Cup. After all, they didn't grow up dreaming about winning it one day, and their heros are maybe as likely to be guys who starred in the Olympics or maybe even in their local leagues than guys like Yzerman, Gretzky, Messier and the like.

It takes an incredible mix of dedication, mental and physical toughness, guts, passion, skill and intelligence to be able to succeed in the NHL. It's not all about your stickhandling skills or how well you can skate.

You know there has to be a reason that no European player has ever captained a team to the Stanley Cup and that it took until '02 for a European goalie to win one (on a loaded team coached by the best coach in NHL history).

It's nice to have a few really skilled International players on your team, but you need a bunch of good homegrown boys to really have a chance. If you doubt that, just look at who has been winning lately.

[CopenhagenWing 38]

One thing you're forgetting here: A lot of European guys may be "better", technically, than their North American counterparts, but often the desire to succeed in the NHL (and the work ethic to do so) is lacking. Many of these guys could care less about the Stanley Cup. After all, they didn't grow up dreaming about winning it one day, and their heros are maybe as likely to be guys who starred in the Olympics or maybe even in their local leagues than guys like Yzerman, Gretzky, Messier and the like.

It takes an incredible mix of dedication, mental and physical toughness, guts, passion, skill and intelligence to be able to succeed in the NHL. It's not all about your stickhandling skills or how well you can skate.

You know there has to be a reason that no European player has ever captained a team to the Stanley Cup and that it took until '02 for a European goalie to win one (on a loaded team coached by the best coach in NHL history).

It's nice to have a few really skilled International players on your team, but you need a bunch of good homegrown boys to really have a chance. If you doubt that, just look at who has been winning lately.

Been drinking that Cherry-flavoured KoolAid, have you?

[BlakChamber 8]

Why do the Lions, Pistons and Tigers still sellout then?

Tigers are winning again and have 9 or 10 different ticket options that are cheaper than the cheapest Wings tickets on Ticketmaster. And the only team in baseball that sells out every game is the Red Sox.

The Lions almost always do well, but there's only 8 home games a year. So season tickets aren't as big a deal. And, according to ESPN, the Lions have been at about 95% the past 5 years.

Plus Detroit is a baseball and football town first.

Not sure about the Pistons, I'd imagine they offer cheaper seating options.

As I've said before, there's no one single reason the Wings haven't been selling out. It's not just the economy, its not just ticket prices, its not just a bunch of other things, its a combination of a variety of factors. The economy is just one of them.

[Guest jaytan]

If I have been, I think it was laced with a bit of truth serum.

[StormJH1 231]

ummm ... hockey tickets for a family of 4 or even for 2 is not the same as candy bars and bubble gum ... is it disposable income ... yes ... but people aren't standing in the middle of the grocery store going "hmm ... candy bar, hockey game, candy bar, hockey game ... i think i want candy bar" ... dropping $1 for a candybar is a lot easier to do than dropping $200+ for a hockey game ... i often have a dollar i don't need, but i can't remember the last time i had $200 i didn't need ... the decision to go to a hockey game is more than just disposable income, it is a bigger occasion than purchasing candy and one where finances do figure in ...

Okay, fine. Then why are we not seeing similar declines in attendance for the Pistons (who have more expensive tickets)? And why do Lions games continue to sell out and the Tigers continue to grow in popularity?

I think the success of these other teams certainly has some impact, and I'll buy that over the "economy sucks" rationale. But there has to be something else. And I think that "something" is that fans don't identify with this franchise anymore. Drew Sharp said it was because they were more European, but I think it's more a facet of the leadership of this team having zero personality. It's almost unfathomable to think about something as exciting as the Blood Bath game and rivalry with Colorado happen in this decade. And to the fans, anything short of the Western Conference Finals is "been there done that," which is sad because you could argue the team's success in today's league is more remarkable than the days where we were outspending most teams by a 2 to 1 margin.

Tigers are winning again and have 9 or 10 different ticket options that are cheaper than the cheapest Wings tickets on Ticketmaster. And the only team in baseball that sells out every game is the Red Sox.

The Lions almost always do well, but there's only 8 home games a year. So season tickets aren't as big a deal. And, according to ESPN, the Lions have been at about 95% the past 5 years.

Plus Detroit is a baseball and football town first.

Not sure about the Pistons, I'd imagine they offer cheaper seating options.

As I've said before, there's no one single reason the Wings haven't been selling out. It's not just the economy, its not just ticket prices, its not just a bunch of other things, its a combination of a variety of factors. The economy is just one of them.

You're absolutely right that there is a combination of factors explaining the problems with the Wings, but...

Detroit is NOT a baseball and football town first and foremost. Detroit is a good sports town, but it's a bandwagon town. Certain teams (Wings included) have had stretches where they disappear from the radar altogether. This absolutely was a hockey town in the 90's, but it was hard not to be with the kind of team we got to watch. But the Tigers weren't relevant until they surprised everyone and got good 2 years ago...that doesn't make this a "baseball town". And if you know anything about NFL fan bases, this is not a good NFL fan base. Detroiters are ashamed of the Lions, half of the fans watch them like a comedy, to see how they're going to screw up next.

[OsGOD 3]

Why do the Lions, Pistons and Tigers still sellout then?

Well lions because its only what like 10 games opposed to 41... and the Pistons haven't started yet... so well you can't just assume they will now considering the layoffs and tax hikes just took effect yesterday.

Tigers... because they are a family friendly price structure... Same owner... way different experience for you wallet.

[Barrie 900]

I don't see how a packed arena/stadium would result in the team losing. Look at Red Sox and Yankees.How would Montreal have 26 Stanley Cups?

When the Yankees and Canadiens lose attendance suffers, and the ownerships know that.

I think when you mentioned in another post that the fans and the media care more about the Leafs than the ownership, does answer my statement. It's similar to the Cubs and Lions. You never want to put ownership in a position where they feel they really don't have to improve the team inorder to sell tickets and make a profit. I don't see any point in packing the joint, when a team is losing, or if like in the current Wings case, you have some issues with the players.

Hockeytown USA was a marketing campaign before the 1996 season when Hockey was the #1 sport in the city. Since the early 90's, Detroit clearly was the best Hockey market in the USA, so the campaign fit. It's only been since last year's playoffs where the Tigers, Pistons, and Lions have passed the Wings in popularity, due to Yzerman retiring, the lack of North American talent, the lock out, the high price in tickets, and the salary cap.

The marketing campaign has been very successful for the team, and due to the fact that it's been just recently the ticket sales have dropped, I don't see the need to pull the plug on the title of Hockeytown USA when we're 3 games into the season. I'm sure the team will use it the rest of the year, and see if they want to continue with it or not in 2008-09.

Detroit is NOT a baseball and football town first and foremost. Detroit is a good sports town, but it's a bandwagon town. Certain teams (Wings included) have had stretches where they disappear from the radar altogether. This absolutely was a hockey town in the 90's, but it was hard not to be with the kind of team we got to watch. But the Tigers weren't relevant until they surprised everyone and got good 2 years ago...that doesn't make this a "baseball town".

Right. This town is filled with fans similar to your's truly. I appreciate and enjoy all of the major North American Sports. I don't have the time and money to support all the teams, so naturally I'll follow the winner.

However I see nothing wrong with that. The Tigers, Pistons, Wings all know they need to win to get fan support. Not only do they compete against teams in their own Leagues, but also with the teams in their own city. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Tigers, Pistons, and Wings are all among the best teams in their Sport. Since 2002 all have either won their Sports Championship or made it to the Championship. I think the Detroit Sports fan make their teams better.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Tonight would have been the perfect night for Downey to play. Why he didn't I will never know. A Downey vs. Souray or Downey vs. Torres fight would have made my night.

As soon as i seen #8 on the ice it felt like a punch to the gut...since i knew then Downey wasnt in. I quickly downed my beer and headed immediately to the concession for more. Even at 8.25 a piece i knew i was going to need it!

A kind of interesting comparison i thought up as for the whole euro thing not selling to the fans, is with wrestling. Remember the days where WCW continuously marched out these all world skilled guys from Mexico and Japan...and no one gave 2 flying s***s about them? Everyone turned over to RAW. The point is you've gotta have personality and character for people to care, like its been pointed out this team is filled with so many bland guys. I mean, can you even imagine somebody calling up a store and saying..."Hi, do have any Mikael Samuelsson jerseys in XL?" The guy on the other end would probably be dumbfounded as to who that even is! This is supposed to be our second line forward and the fans could care less about him. Zetterberg has a little charisma to him, but Datsyuk has zippo. He's all flashy plays and thats it. Offers absolutely nothing for the fans to connect with off the ice. Holmstrom is probably the only guy who's an exception and the fans have really taken to...because of the way he plays and takes abuse. Its a blue collar city here, we like guys who get knocked down and come back for more! Of course marketing is also a problem, as we dont even get the chance to know these guys at all. But its more- so the roster.

[Heaton 1]

I was pretty surprised that no one on the Oilers did a thing after the 5th or 6th time Hemsky got run by one of the Wings. You would've thought Torres or Souray would've let someone know to cut it out, but no one cared. Strange!

[Guest jaytan]

...Sure do miss Sean Avery these days.

[Wing-in-avs-town 123]

Bottom line, the Joe looked emptier last night, than it did against the ducks. I don't know how'd they could do it, but let the upper level fans fill in the lower bowl for the 3rd period or something. It really looks empty to everyone watching.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I was pretty surprised that no one on the Oilers did a thing after the 5th or 6th time Hemsky got run by one of the Wings. You would've thought Torres or Souray would've let someone know to cut it out, but no one cared. Strange!

Maybe it came across different on tv, but the only big hit i recall seeing is two Edmonton players colliding with each other. Cleary threw one pretty good one, maybe thats one that youre referring to, and that was basically it. I didnt notice Hemsky getting run..