Hockeytown is DEAD

[betterREDthandead 58]

Downtown Detroit has a safe nightlife.

I'll take that one step further: Downtown may very well be the safest part of Detroit.

I really think the long sellout streak is now working against the attendance. Wings games have long been seen as the domain of the season-ticket holders, the corporate crowd, and those willing to either stand in long-ass lines for tickets, or pay way too much, or both. So, actually going to a Wings game isn't really thought of as a viable option unless you know someone. I grew up 20 minutes' drive from the Joe and I never went to a Wings game until after the lockout, after I had graduated college out-of-state and moved away. My folks made plenty of money but Wings tickets were still out of the question. In a nutshell, the sellout streak jacked up prices (it only made sense, economically speaking) and put tickets on a pedestal.

The economy shouldn't be an issue when other Detroit teams are drawing well. The Tigers three million is mentioned alot, but what I want to see and read is the percantage of capacity. Like somebody else posted 17,000+ is lot, especially if the Joe seats more than 20,000.

BTW where is the love, ummm I mean hate, for Bob Wojnowski and Bruce MacLeod.

Wojo and MacLeod get a pass here because they can be counted on to be worth reading almost all the time. Sharp gets picked on because he is the absolute king of pissing on parades. It's like he's only happy when the Lions suck and he gets to write sarcastic columns about the quarterback.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

To quote the caveman from the Geicho commercial - Uh, what?

[proc 0]

I don't think its been mentioned, but the Colorado Avalanche didn't sell out their opener either.

Could we be seeing a tremendous decline of interest in the NHL in the U.S.? I am sure the Canadian teams will sell out their buildings.

Edited October 5, 2007 by proc

[StevieY9802 6]

The article is dumb cause it has bee one game. And mlive's article had it in the headline that the sellout streak was over. People mention the tigers being able to bring in people but for the most part you can take a family to a tigers game. A lot more cheaper seats. Its also a lot easier when it during the summer and when you have 40,000 seats and 81 homes games you have to have cheaper prices. If you look the teams that play fewer homes games the prices are higher cause the interest is there for your casual fans because you don't have to pay attention for 82-162 games. But the economy is terrible and the prices for Wings games are too high. And guess what all 4 sports teams are doing well. When the Lions were average to bad and the pistons were around .500 and the Tigers were terrible and the Wings were winning every year its easy to draw in fans. But the Tigers have had 2 winning years in a row, the pistons have gone to 5 straight conference finals and the Lions are 3-1. I do agree marketing has to be better here and more so in the US. They have to find a way to appeal to casual fans. As for more offense maybe they really need to do something now. I wasn't for making the nets bigger until hearing Keith Jones talk about it on VS the other night and he kinda sold me on it. As for worrying about it theres no reason yet.

[WINGS TILL DEATH 9]

I know how we can fix hockey!!!! Eliminate our crappy southern market supporting commissioner Bettmen!!! Get rid of that moron and we've got really hockey back. Nowadays hockey looks like soccer on skates. Where has the hitting gone? I saw some of it in the opener, but not nearly enough. We need rivalries again like the one against the Av's. I'm starting to see one with the ducks. (Main reason for the hits and the fight) (BTW Drake wins that fight in my opinion because he had honor and took off his helmet, and in doing so got grabbed. Drake still got some punches on that visor wearing duck ****** Perry) Even people who didn't like hockey watched the rivalry games. Why? Fighting, hitting, and passion, all of which is action without goals. The NHL is fixing the wrong things. We don't need more goals; it is nice, but lack of goals was not the problem. Hockey was never broken! WHY FIX IT!!!???

About attendance my solution is GO TO THE GAMES, instead of sitting on the forums! invite your friends who don't know and don't like hockey. We can all agree that taking someone to a game is the best way to create a new fan. TV has never given our sport credit like it does football and basketball, and it never will! TV makes our players look slow, small, and the rink look tiny. For some reason in football the field looks huge on TV, and when you see it live it's not nearly what you think it is. Remember it's only 100 yards. The same occurs with basketball. The court looks way bigger then it does in actuality. If people watch our sport on TV they'll never gain respect for hockey. Take them to the games to see the speed, power, PASSION of hockey.

When I was back home in CA I went to EVERY single Wings and Ducks game, and sometimes Wings and Coyotes games. Every-time I lost my voice from cheering, and trashed talking till I got on the 55 Freeway back home, or the hotel in Phoenix. Having passion ignites it in others. If your friend who knows nothing of hockey see the passion that you and other fans have for the team and the game they WILL become addicted and feel a sense of social belonging to the sport. "This is Passion! This is love! This is HOCKEY! "

Edited October 5, 2007 by WINGS TILL DEATH

[Nero 20]

I cannot afford tickets.

And I would prefer to actually watch the game. "Obstructed view" does not sound pleasant. Can anyone comment on the $9 seats? Maybe I'll show up if they are not as bad as they sound.

[eva unit zero 271]

I know how we can fix hockey!!!! Eliminate our crappy southern market supporting commissioner Bettmen!!! Get rid of that moron and we've got really hockey back. Nowadays hockey looks like soccer on skates. Where has the hitting gone? I saw some of it in the opener, but not nearly enough. We need rivalries again like the one against the Av's. I'm starting to see one with the ducks. (Main reason for the hits and the fight) (BTW Drake wins that fight in my opinion because he had honor and took off his helmet, and in doing so got grabbed. Drake still got some punches on that visor wearing duck ****** Perry) Even people who didn't like hockey watched the rivalry games. Why? Fighting, hitting, and passion, all of which is action without goals. The NHL is fixing the wrong things. We don't need more goals; it is nice, but lack of goals was not the problem. Hockey was never broken! WHY FIX IT!!!???

You think hockey looks like soccer now? You weren't watching during the late 90s then. Most games for most teams were boring as s*** because they all played safe defense and no-risk offense, combined with clutch and grab tactics that took away any chance for exciting plays going either way. When pylons like Rob Blake and Derian Hatcher get Norris nominations, you know there is a problem with the game of hockey.

About attendance my solution is GO TO THE GAMES, instead of sitting on the forums! invite your friends who don't know and don't like hockey. We can all agree that taking someone to a game is the best way to create a new fan. TV has never given our sport credit like it does football and basketball, and it never will! TV makes our players look slow, small, and the rink look tiny. For some reason in football the field looks huge on TV, and when you see it live it's not nearly what you think it is. Remember it's only 100 yards. The same occurs with basketball. The court looks way bigger then it does in actuality. If people watch our sport on TV they'll never gain respect for hockey. Take them to the games to see the speed, power, PASSION of hockey.

When I was back home in CA I went to EVERY single Wings and Ducks game, and sometimes Wings and Coyotes games. Every-time I lost my voice from cheering, and trashed talking till I got on the 55 Freeway back home, or the hotel in Phoenix. Having passion ignites it in others. If your friend who knows nothing of hockey see the passion that you and other fans have for the team and the game they WILL become addicted and feel a sense of social belonging to the sport. "This is Passion! This is love! This is HOCKEY! "

The best way to make a hockey fan is not for them to watch a game; it's for them to pick up a stick and play some street/roller hockey with friends.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

I don't think its been mentioned, but the Colorado Avalanche didn't sell out their opener either.

Could we be seeing a tremendous decline of interest in the NHL in the U.S.? I am sure the Canadian teams will sell out their buildings.

yeah, and their sellout streak actually ended last season i believe. i mean, they didn't have a single seat filled for the playoffs. seriously though, i think their streak ended last regular season. so those are two of the strongest markets in the west right there. probably the two strongest us markets, maybe the wild.

[Jwo 7]

I don't think its been mentioned, but the Colorado Avalanche didn't sell out their opener either.

Could we be seeing a tremendous decline of interest in the NHL in the U.S.? I am sure the Canadian teams will sell out their buildings.

The The Edmonton Oilers only had 16,839 and Ottawa Senators only had 19,857 both did not sell out even with the loonie being worth more than the American Dollar as most Canadians are shoving down us American throats about.

[auxlepli 17]

I cannot afford tickets.

And I would prefer to actually watch the game. "Obstructed view" does not sound pleasant. Can anyone comment on the $9 seats? Maybe I'll show up if they are not as bad as they sound.

The best seat in any house were the corners looking into the bench. That's where scouts sit, so I've read. It took me two seasons to figure that out on my own before I read it. Anyway, when the NHL put up the safety nets, that's when I couldn't sit there anymore. I hate sitting behind safety nets, whether at a hockey or baseball game. It literally gives me headaches. White safety nets are much, much better, and I sat behind them at Yost without any problems. Still don't like them, but I can tolerate them much better. So now I like sitting above the glass behind the penalty boxes. That way I can still see into the benches. So if you're sitting behind the safety nets, and black ones at that, it's obstructed view IMO. That's where I think the $9 seats are if I'm not mistaken, and I have no interest in those at all.

[Jwo 7]

They need to make those $9 seats more convenient for people to get. Ticketmaster.com does not sell them.

[Guest jaytan]

I cannot afford tickets.

And I would prefer to actually watch the game. "Obstructed view" does not sound pleasant. Can anyone comment on the $9 seats? Maybe I'll show up if they are not as bad as they sound.

Well, the way things are going now, you could probably just buy the $9 tickets then sneak down to some better seats. I bet the ushers won't even care, since it'll look better on TV.

[johnnyoski 0]

Here's an interesting Q&A that Drew Sharp had today. Its taken directly from the Freep.

Grosse Pointe: Drew, besides ticket prices, do you think the poor turnout for the Wings opener is a reflection of the absence of Yzerman or do you think it may be time for the Wings to build a new arena?

Drew Sharp (3:04 p.m.): -- The Wings absolutely need a new arena and they also need the NHL to assist in underwriting some of the construction costs. It's imperative for the NHL's long term survival to make sure that one of its strongest brands -- the Detroit Red Wings -- has facilities that are indicative of its importance. Bettman is worried more about keeping a garbage franchise in Nashville.

I also believe the Wings suffer from a lack of dominant North American stars that the locals can more easily relate to. Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are tremendous players and equally tremendous people but Detroit remains inherently a provincial, blue collar town that better relates to those who are more like their neighbors.

That's not Kenny Holland's fault. His job is keep a winning team on the ice and he's done that through mining European talent like nobody else. When you're consistently drafting low like he does, he's getting players who slipped lower in the draft than they should have and those guys are usually European players.

I usually disagree with the guy but I've gotta admit he's absolutely right about Bettman. He's spending too much time worrying about expansion and relocation that he has other core issues like this he should be addressing.

[auxlepli 17]

I usually disagree with the guy but I've gotta admit he's absolutely right about Bettman. He's spending too much time worrying about expansion and relocation that he has other core issues like this he should be addressing.

That's true about Bettman.

There's a point to be made about lack of Canadian stars. While I disagree with that sentiment, I've met Wings fans who agree with it.

[Viperar 16]

The non-sellout crowds are really getting to me. Its sad looking at articles about hockeytown is dead and all this stuff all the time.

Would a new arena really fix this? I have my doubts

[Guest jaytan]

I think it would help. Everyone likes a fancy new stadium.

Plus, they might build it a bit smaller and with better sightlines.

[auxlepli 17]

Better sightlines? JLA probably has the best in the League. Better than any other arena where I've seen a game. Even the Masterminds said if a new arena is built they want the same sightlines, and I agree with them. Even before I read that, that's what I've proposed if a new arena is built. So yeah, a new arena would attract sellouts, at least for a year or two. As long as it's one bowl, same sightlines, and downtown, I could go along with a new arena. LOL, not like it needs my approval, but that's my opinion.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Now that I've seen that only a few teams sold out their home opener, I'm getting pretty scared. Has hockey really lost the interest of that many of its fans? Is it because the cup matchup last year was absolute s***? If this trend continues, it could easily mean the extinction of the NHL. Its already on the endangered list.

hey, at least Dallas is looking pretty packed.

Edited October 6, 2007 by ShanahanMan

[rivieraillusions 0]

Somebody may have mentioned these things, but I'm not going to read every post in this thread so here goes: there are a few things to consider when thinking about why Detroit didn't sell out it's home opener. First in my mind is this: the team lacks character. Yes, they are very skilled and are a great team, but can anyone relate to a single player like they used to relate to Steve, Brendan, or Darren? I don't buy the whole "the wings lack good north american players" crap either - it doesn't matter where they're from, it's their attitude and likeability that matter most with fans. In a town full of blue-collar types, who wants to go see a team that backs down more often than not when challenged physically. Yes, Drake is an improvement in that area and it was nice to see him scrap with Perry. However, watching Samuelson gingerly skate up to Getzlaf, who had the puck, and get smoked before he could even lay a hit was totally embarrassing. Yes, the economy in general (not just in Michigan) isn't helping but the fact that the Red Wings have not lowered ticket prices since the lockout is a complete joke. They used to turn a profit with a payroll in the 60-70 million range - think of the profit they're turning now. I don't think the Illitch's are going to be in the poor-house if they lower the prices a bit and throw in some good promotions.

[rufonz 0]

Hey people... I'm new to the forum, but I wanted to toss in my 2cents(I know your not interested). I'm a canadian who likes the wings(though not my favorite team) and I found this declaration of hockeytown being dead disturbing.

First, the many responses here prove hockeytown isn't dead, imo. Second, you guys still draw more than any other american market, so hockeytown USA is alive and well.

I'm sure all your suggestions for why the opener didn't sell out are all true. The economy, red wing fans definitely being spoiled, european players, the success of other sports teams in detroit, etc... but one of my theories is... and I'm not sure how much hockey media you get there.... the national media in the states only seems to mention hockey when someone gets hurt or when they want to bash its popularity. We get a lot of your tv up here and anytime hockey is mentioned its one of the two. Up here the media treats hockey like a religion, and you can imagine the frenzy that stirs. When do you guys ever see the national media talking about another team? Its a tragedy considering how great the sport is. It should speak for itself. Is there a rivalry anymore? If the national media even paid a fraction the attention the canadian media does to hockey this would not be an issue, at least in my opinion. And blame that on the nhl perhaps, or blame it on the lockout, but my feeling is that plays a huge role in the apathy of all the great american hockey markets.

Hoceky is too deeply ingrained in detroit for it to die out, which makes this a phase, and that guys article stupid.

[auxlepli 17]

Up here the media treats hockey like a religion, and you can imagine the frenzy that stirs.

I wish I lived in Canada. Windsor would be ideal.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Yeah, perhaps the most shocking thing to me in all of this is that a LOT of other teams didn't sell out for opening night (Edmonton, Colorado, etc.). I'm worried about the Wings' attendance figures, but it has sort of become a bit of a prevailing theme throughout the week. This isn't just a problem in Detroit, which is much more frightening.

[OsGOD 3]

I cannot afford tickets.

And I would prefer to actually watch the game. "Obstructed view" does not sound pleasant. Can anyone comment on the $9 seats? Maybe I'll show up if they are not as bad as they sound.

I'll bit.

The are finally priced correctly as to what they offer you... enterance into the arena and nothing more.

From what I can tell from the seats i have almost bought in that range they are like the upper bowl last 3-4 rows in the corners...

The obstructed views comes from two sources... 1 is a bill board (digital where they have the hands clapping and such) sitting behind them makes it tough. the other is because the rows flatten out... the stadium seating goes away. if anything happens on the ice and people stand you will be left out because you can't see anything. In those situations i used to get the very last row so that i can sit o the tops of my chairs and see some of the action

[Kp-Wings 3]

^^^I bought the obstructed view seats, and they were pretty bad like you said. So, I just moved to better ones. Empty seats were in abundance at the home opener, so I had plenty to choose from. None of the ushors cared, either, which was nice.

[mooose kiiisses 0]

I have a theory... the seats at JLA are red and so are Wings' home jerseys so when fans wear their red sweaters they blend into the seats and nobody can see them sitting there and therefor everyone thinks the Joe is empty.

I can wish can't I?