Official Downey On Waivers

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Somewhat. There is an age/games played (NHL and AHL) formula. The older you are (to some point) the less games you can have on your record before you have to start clearing waivers. It's a mechanism to keep teams from hoarding talent in the minors that are good enough to be NHLers elsewhere.

ah, thanks.

[Heaton 1]

...

Edited October 6, 2007 by Heaton

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Some of you should be working for Holland's PR team. I wonder if any other team's fans are so proud of the fact that their team has no enforcer. Liking your team doesn't mean you have to buy into everything the GM believes in. I'm just convinced that Holland has no clue as to what he's doing on this particular topic.

Ken Holland is not the end all says all for this team. Mike Illitch is. Holland gets input from guys like Devallano, Babcock, Yzerman and then clears it with the Illitch's. Are you telling me that the names that are listed (and the ones that are not that offer advice) have no idea how to build a hockey team. It's about getting players that fit the style, attitude, talent requirements of this franchise, not just some big guy to take a roster spot. I would love to have an enforcer, but not at the cost of losing someone that can contribute to the team in more than one way.

Edited October 6, 2007 by LIDDYGIBBY5

[puckbags 863]

The part I like about Drake is that I think he is just stupid enough to drop the gloves with anyone!! I don't give two s***s if he gets the pulp beat out himself every time..as long as he is there to drop the mitts, put a stick on someones side or dish out a big hit every once in a while to let the other teams know he's there!! There are certainly different types of toughness. Some teams have goons and some don't...Homer, Z, Dats, Lids don't drop the gloves but they go into the corners everytime without hesitation which frustrates the hell out of teams when they hit hit hit them and they just keep bouncing back!! Toughness isn't all about having a couple of morons who sit on the bench for 59 minutes and then go out and take a stupid penalty trying to start a fight!! These goons don't even see the ice in the playoffs which in turn makes it alot easier for us come playoff time because we don't have to adjust the lineup because we have been playing 4 solid lines all year!! Really what good did MrGratton do in the Downie-Mcammond situation, he got no retribution, he threw a few failed shots and now next month he's going to make a spectacle of himself trying to get someone back. What will happen though is him and some other meathead from Philly who had nothing to do with the situation will drop the gloves and beat each other up. I love watching a good fight but in the grand scheme will those two fighting really solve the eye for an eye scenarion? Not likely!! Downey will probably dress a couple of games for us, who know's he might play well, he might get in a few fights but he certainly isn't going to make teams fear us!! If we outplay team's like we did Anaheim the other night team's will fear us for the right reasons!!

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

The part I like about Drake is that I think he is just stupid enough to drop the gloves with anyone!! I don't give two s***s if he gets the pulp beat out himself every time..as long as he is there to drop the mitts, put a stick on someones side or dish out a big hit every once in a while to let the other teams know he's there!! There are certainly different types of toughness. Some teams have goons and some don't...Homer, Z, Dats, Lids don't drop the gloves but they go into the corners everytime without hesitation which frustrates the hell out of teams when they hit hit hit them and they just keep bouncing back!! Toughness isn't all about having a couple of morons who sit on the bench for 59 minutes and then go out and take a stupid penalty trying to start a fight!! These goons don't even see the ice in the playoffs which in turn makes it alot easier for us come playoff time because we don't have to adjust the lineup because we have been playing 4 solid lines all year!! Really what good did MrGratton do in the Downie-Mcammond situation, he got no retribution, he threw a few failed shots and now next month he's going to make a spectacle of himself trying to get someone back. What will happen though is him and some other meathead from Philly who had nothing to do with the situation will drop the gloves and beat each other up. I love watching a good fight but in the grand scheme will those two fighting really solve the eye for an eye scenarion? Not likely!! Downey will probably dress a couple of games for us, who know's he might play well, he might get in a few fights but he certainly isn't going to make teams fear us!! If we outplay team's like we did Anaheim the other night team's will fear us for the right reasons!!

well said. still, i think the wings could get tougher. not that downey's the answer.

[Dominator2005 558]

You're wrong once again. How's 1 enforcer going to change what we try to do as a team. We're still going to be a skilled puck possession team no matter what. Do Boogaard or McGrattan take away from what their teams try to accomplish? Did Dave Semenko hold the Oilers back in the 80's from being a top team? I guarantee you Downey would do more for this team than what Kopecky or Ellis can do. As I've said before, Holland is a good GM, but he's done a horrible job of managing this enforcer situation over the last 5 years. His idea of an enforcer is a guy who can score 20 goals, and not pick up any minor penalties. Well, looks like this will be another year where I'll know that I'm cheering for the pussiest team in the league, and yeah I'm a little embarassed about that to say the least.

WOW - GREAT POST MAN!!!

Because it isn't smart to pitch a fit whenever our guys get hit.

Common sense? I'd run the Ducks all night long and enjoy the PP opportunities they'd give me in return. No one in this league is afraid to hit Duck players.

Because they were valuable 2nd liners in the AHL? That roughly translates to 4th line NHL duty. What has Downey ever shown?

What has Ellis ever shown??? Grigorenko??? Sammy??? Kopecky???

Then why is it that no other enforcers ever take Pronger to task? He doesn't only hit Red Wings. Fact is he has one fight since '02. How is that possible considering every other team in the league has an enforcer that sticks up for his teammates?

He don't need to fights... he had enforcers around him in every year...

Would you rather have enforcer (player that plays for 500k) who will drop the gloves or one of the best def. dropping his gloves???

He cleared waivers, which I think tells you about all you need to know.

Yeah, that means that every other team in this league has at least one enforcer...

[Heaton 1]

Who is Carolina's enforcer? How about Nashville? Vancouver? Those teams have legitimate enforcers who regularly play? Who replaced Laraque for Edmonton?

Edited October 6, 2007 by Heaton

[Dominator2005 558]

You all need to relax

http://redwingscorner.blogspot.com/2007/10...rs-waivers.html

Aaron Downey cleared waivers, Saturday. The forward was exposed to waivers to give the team the ability to make roster moves quickly if needed. Downey will stay with the Wings (he practiced today in Chicago) and is available to play and on the roster. The waivers more or less make him pre-approved to be moved if necessary in the next 30 days or 10 games.

The Red Wings play five games in the next nine days. Two days must pass for a player to clear waivers, so there was the possibility that an injury could have caused problems. If a goalie had gotten hurt, there wouldn't have been time for a player to clear waivers and be sent down to make room for another player to come to Detroit. The Red Wings are at the roster maximum of 23 players.

As usual, Downey was the ultimate teammate when asked about being put on waivers ...

"I've been on waivers before, hoping someone would pick me up. This time, I was hoping someone wouldn't. Such a great group of guys here. I love being a Red Wings.

"I've been living in the moment for 13 years now. The game's not new to me, the role I play. When I first started (in the East Coast league), I was on 24-hour contracts. I'll just take this day and enjoy it, be thankful that I've got a job.

"The Lord willing, they'll keep me here all year."

Coach Mike Babcock ...

"We want him to be a part of our organization.

"You have to be able to replace people. If you have an injury … we just felt we had to do this."

Thanks for posting this INFO!

[norrisnick 1]

What has Ellis ever shown??? Grigorenko??? Sammy??? Kopecky???

Potential. Downey has none.

He don't need to fights... he had enforcers around him in every year...

Would you rather have enforcer (player that plays for 500k) who will drop the gloves or one of the best def. dropping his gloves???

Which is why I raised the question later, that if the cheapshot artist isn't going to have to fight anyway, what good are enforcers? Enforcers fighting enforcers don't prevent anything from happening so just cut out the middle man and don't dress an enforcer.

[Dominator2005 558]

Who is Carolina's enforcer? How about Nashville? Vancouver? Those teams have legitimate enforcers who regularly play?

Carolina is much tougher than Red Wings - They have Commodore, Gleason, Walker even Brind'Amour...

Nashville - Hordichuk, Tootoo, Webber...

Vancouver - Bieksa...

[Guest micah]

You're embarassed to cheer for the Wings? That's sad. Particularly since not fighting =/= *****. Homer doesn't fight, but he's tougher than 99% of the league.

I am too. Not fighting when your teamate, freind or family member gets picked on does = ***** in my book.

As far as Homer, if he didn't wear extra armour to help him do his job, I'd respect him. If he had enough self-respect to physically respond to the people who cheapshot him and his teamates, I'd respect him. I would be willing to stand next to a grenade that was about to blow if I had special gear that would keep me from getting hurt, that doesn't make me tough..

[TheBadOne 0]

Jesus Christ, Downey gets thrown on waivers and now we start picking apart every miniscule detail about the team.

I'm glad everyone's passionate about this, but there's a few things I'd like to point out.

- Detroit's one of the few teams in the league who don't carry emphasis on having an enforcer. The guy they signed for that role who's in his early thirties and, aside from that knockout to Boulerice, hasn't had what many consider to be a winning fight record. Is he an upgrade over Norton? Yes. But are the other teams going to waive their 20-something enforcer who outsizes Downey so they can claim him from Detroit? No. Detroit may as well waive him now, since it's early in the season, so that if the time comes to send him to GR later on, they don't risk losing him if in the event that 30 days from now, another team's enforcer is on the IR and they want a toughguy. Downey understands this, and has been nothing but classy because of it. I'm glad he wasn't claimed and I hope that he remains in the organization for as long as possible.

- For the "is toughness essential to winning" debate, I've said it once and I'll say it again, yes, yes, yes it does. Look at the final four teams in the '07 playoffs. Detroit was the only one that didn't carry and emphasis on having a fighter or having that element built into their team and they were eliminated by the Ducks, who even with Parros in the press box, still had O'Donnell, Moen, and Thornton running around to take care of the tough stuff. They went on to face the winners of the Ottawa - Buffalo series. Did those two teams emphasize on toughtness?

That said about toughness being essential to winning, The 96-97 Red Wings would have wiped their ass with the 06-07 Ducks, and that's a fact!

- Folks, do you think that Zetterberg is sitting around his house calling Ellis useless because Downey was waived? No. Do you think Datsyuk is telling his relatives how much of a fatass Grigorenko is for taking a spot away from their enforcer? No. Why? Because they're a team. While it's alright to be critical of whether or not toughness doesn't take priority, or if someone's the best player for a particular spot, lets not attack the players who've either gone above and beyond their expectations and capabilities to earn an NHL roster spot or players who are viewed as essential to the future success of the organization. Yes, I hope that the Wings start taking fighting more seriously, and I hope players like Gelech, Keefe, Jarram, and Clark (or comparable players) one day pan out and make for a crushing 3rd or 4th line. Until then, we've dedicated ourselves to support an organization that hasn't missed the playoffs since our goaltending platoon consisted of Stefan, Hanlon, and St. Laurent. The front office hasn't necessarily been as fan friendly as teams in other markets, but they've consistently put perennial winners on the ice for us to cheer for despite all the obstacles in their way. I admit I'm disappointed that Grigorenko didn't take coming to North America as seriously as we hoped (coming up to training camp overweight, not learning any English whatsoever), and I'm also disappointed in Kopecky's ability to take shifts off. But I can't comprehend the mentality that allows people to attack Ellis after everything he's done for the Red Wings. Year after year after year he's worked harder and harder to go from an undrafted free agent who was playing in the ECHL to landing an NHL depth job with the most prolific team in the league after being the leader of the Griffins. I don't know about you, but that justifies respect from me.

Well, here's to hoping the Wings win tonight. Go Wings.

[Dominator2005 558]

Potential. Downey has none.

Which is why I raised the question later, that if the cheapshot artist isn't going to have to fight anyway, what good are enforcers? Enforcers fighting enforcers don't prevent anything from happening so just cut out the middle man and don't dress an enforcer.

Potential of what??? to be 15th forward - depth forwards??? Please stop that s*** with potential - look at Kronvall he has ''potential'' to be off. def. but he can't play more than 65 games a year and he can't score... and we pay him $3M.

[Heaton 1]

Carolina is much tougher than Red Wings - They have Commodore, Gleason, Walker even Brind'Amour...

Nashville - Hordichuk, Tootoo, Webber...

Vancouver - Bieksa...

You claimed no one would pick up Downey because every team has an enforcer, I'm not concerned about their team toughness. Carolina, Nashville, Vancouver, even Edmonton don't have enforcers in the sense that you guys clamor about. They have guys who fight, no enforcers. Tootoo can play the game, so he plays and he fights, Weber is one of the best young defensemen in the game and the same goes with Bieska.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Heaton

[Dominator2005 558]

Who is Carolina's enforcer? How about Nashville? Vancouver? Those teams have legitimate enforcers who regularly play? Who replaced Laraque for Edmonton?

Winchester - now he's Dallas Stars... Still thay have Greene, Sourray... those guys can/will drop their gloves to protect their teammates...

[puckbags 863]

Potential. Downey has none.

Which is why I raised the question later, that if the cheapshot artist isn't going to have to fight anyway, what good are enforcers? Enforcers fighting enforcers don't prevent anything from happening so just cut out the middle man and don't dress an enforcer.

Exactly..enforcers fight enforcers just because thats what people in the stands want to see. It doesn't really solve anything. If we dress 4 goons it's not going to stop Pronger or some other idiot from cheapshotting one of our good players. So in essence Pronger cheap shots one of our players and then Downey fight's Parros, whats the point of that? Pronger pay's no price!!

[Heaton 1]

Winchester - now he's Dallas Stars... Still thay have Greene, Sourray... those guys can/will drop their gloves to protect their teammates...

And none are enforcers, don't beat around the bush just say it, none of the teams I mentioned have enforcers, they have players who will fight. McGrattan is an enforcer, Parros is an enforcer, Boogaard is an enforcer, Sheldon Souray is an offensive defensemen who fights on certain occasions.

[norrisnick 1]

I am too. Not fighting when your teamate, freind or family member gets picked on does = ***** in my book.

As far as Homer, if he didn't wear extra armour to help him do his job, I'd respect him. If he had enough self-respect to physically respond to the people who cheapshot him and his teamates, I'd respect him. I would be willing to stand next to a grenade that was about to blow if I had special gear that would keep me from getting hurt, that doesn't make me tough..

Picked on? These guys are professional world class athletes. Men in the primes of their lives. Not your kid sister. For f***'s sake, man. Get a grip.

If Homer weren't wearing the armor he does, he'd need dialysis. And it isn't all encompasing. There are vast swatches of unprotected Holmstrom sticking out. Areas that the puck, and guys like Pronger hit on a game to game basis.

[esteef 2,679]

Potential. Downey has none.

Which is why I raised the question later, that if the cheapshot artist isn't going to have to fight anyway, what good are enforcers? Enforcers fighting enforcers don't prevent anything from happening so just cut out the middle man and don't dress an enforcer.

If enforcers are so useless as you claim, why have there always been enforcers? I mean, if they don't stop or deter a damned thing from happening, why do GMs, owners, and coaches (who are all smarter than us at putting teams together by the way), always have them on their teams? By your rationale enforcers should've never existed in the first place, since they bring nothing to the table.

esteef

[Dominator2005 558]

You claimed no one would pick up Downey because every team has an enforcer, I'm not concerned about their team toughness. Carolina, Nashville, Vancouver, even Edmonton don't have enforcers in the sense that you guys clamor about. They have guys who fight, no enforcers. Tootoo can play the game, so he plays and he fights, Weber is one of the best young defensemen in the game and the same goes with Bieska.

THEY HAVE PLAYERS THAT CAN DROP THEIR GLOVES AND PROTECT THEIR TEAMMATES... WE DON'T HAVE THEM!

Hordichuk is still in Nashville - as far as I remember.

All those teams have pretty tough players/goons in their farm system... Who can we call up if we need to???

[Guest micah]

Bad One - you'll not hear me attack Ellis....I will however attack Grigs all days long for being a lazy waste of space who quite apparently has not taken the biggest opportunity of his life very seriously. I would have thought that they had books on tape (learn the language bum, how long ago did tyou find out you might be coming over?!) and excersize bikes in Russia. I can give Kieth Tkachuk a pass on being a lazy fatass, at least he had proven his worth before his laziness took over. If I were in charge (and thankfully I'm not, because we'd never win a game, lol) Grigs would be bound for Siberia right now...he can catch a bus to Moscow for all I care. If you're not going to take your shot seriously, I'd find someone who is and use you as an example.

Picked on? These guys are professional world class athletes. Men in the primes of their lives. Not your kid sister. For f***'s sake, man. Get a grip.

Actually, I'm pretty sure my kids sister could handle herself better than Hudler could handle himself.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Who is Carolina's enforcer? How about Nashville? Vancouver? Those teams have legitimate enforcers who regularly play? Who replaced Laraque for Edmonton?

Carolina - Scott Walker/Mike Commodore

Nashville - Darcy Hordichuk

Edmonton - Zach Stortini

Vancouver - Brad Isbister/Jeff Cowan.

They all have enforcers. And they have other guys that are willing

Carolina -Gleason, Wallin, Adams, Brind'amour

Nashville - Weber, Tootoo, Ortmeyer

Edmonton - Torres, Souray, Greene

Vancouver - Mitchell, Bieksa.

Those are all tough teams, with tough players and enforcers.

[Heaton 1]

Heh, I guess the term enforcer has gotten watered down a lot if Jed Ortmeyer is considered one. I always associated enforcers as guys people feared on the ice like Laraque and McGrattan, I don't think anyone fears Nicklas Wallin or Tim Gleason.

I'm not arguing whether or not these teams fight, I'm arguing semantics.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Heaton

[norrisnick 1]

If enforcers are so useless as you claim, why have there always been enforcers? I mean, if they don't stop or deter a damned thing from happening, why do GMs, owners, and coaches (who are all smarter than us at putting teams together by the way), always have them on their teams? By your rationale enforcers should've never existed in the first place, since they bring nothing to the table.

esteef

There haven't always been enforcers. The NHL was around for 40-50 years before the first real enforcer was brought into the fold (John Ferguson Sr.). Didn't hurt that he could play and ended up in the HOF. Or guys like Robinson and Gillies that were HOF talents, but also were the toughest SOBs on their respective dynasties. The Bullies took it to an extreme. IMO a lot of teams tried to copy one or the other format, but not every fighter can end up as good as Ferguson or Gilies. Or even Probert.

But to address the point at hand, don't Kenny, Scotty, Nill, Ilitch, Stevie, and Babcock full under the same class of guys that know more than you or I about building a team? They haven't iced an enforcer in years. Strange that.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

If enforcers are so useless as you claim, why have there always been enforcers? I mean, if they don't stop or deter a damned thing from happening, why do GMs, owners, and coaches (who are all smarter than us at putting teams together by the way), always have them on their teams? By your rationale enforcers should've never existed in the first place, since they bring nothing to the table.

esteef

Thank you for that post. I agree with everything you say, and it's amazing how people here have so bought into Holland's bulls*** that they've forgotten that no other organization has the same idiotic philosophy on this subject that the Wings have. Enforcers have existed for a long time in hockey, and they haven't been on teams just for the sake of being on teams.