Why isnt Osgood starting

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It has begun...

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...san_jose_l.html

Khan says not to read too much into it, but it is interesting that Dom isn't being given the usual automatic benefit of the doubt. If Osgood can keep playing solid hockey with these extra starts there is no reason to keep him stapled to the bench in favor of a guy that isn't remotely close to playing up to his abilities. Personally I'm curious to see how Dom handles what in effect is a benching. I know that when he gets shelled he usually comes back with a strong game, but a benching? When's the last time that's happened?

The plot thickens...

This is a surprising move. I know a lot of people here overstated it, but apparently Babcock wasn't happy with how Dom has performed either.

[norrisnick 1]

I agree with most of what you said, but this is a massive overstatement that's been thrown around a lot here.

Even aside from one "bad" call (are you referring to the one on Dats for interference? because that was a pretty solid call) or one bad play by Lilja, or whatever people claim is the one bad break that cost the Wings the series, they still had to win two more games against Anaheim. That's a tall order. And that was just the conference finals!

It's not like they lost in OT of game seven because of an unlucky break. They had to win 6 more games against two very good teams.

The call on Datsyuk was incredibly weak. Given the context of how the series and that game was being called. Particularly when the Ducks could hold up anyone entering their zone with impunity. And the play worse than Lilly's (at least in terms of impact) was Franzen's weak attempt to clear the zone on his backhand with less than a minute to go. He had time to go forehand and rip it down the ice. He didn't, it got knocked down, passed to Scotty, who fluttered a shot of Nick's stick and over Dom's shoulder to tie it. That puck gets cleared we win and go up 3-2 on the series.

We matched up better vs Ottawa than we did against the Ducks. We squeak by Anaheim and I like our odds to take home the silver.

[eva unit zero 271]

I agree with most of what you said, but this is a massive overstatement that's been thrown around a lot here.

Even aside from one "bad" call (are you referring to the one on Dats for interference? because that was a pretty solid call) or one bad play by Lilja, or whatever people claim is the one bad break that cost the Wings the series, they still had to win two more games against Anaheim. That's a tall order. And that was just the conference finals!

It's not like they lost in OT of game seven because of an unlucky break. They had to win 6 more games against two very good teams.

The penalty on Dats was iffy. Not because it was a questionable situation, but because borderline situations like that had been let go all game. If that call is let go, consistent with many other situations throughout the game, the Wings win game 5, instead of going to OT on a fluky PP goal. That means they have all the momentum and the advantage going into a decisive Game 6. Without the call on Dats, they have to win 5 more games, and have significantly more momentum and confidence.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The call on Datsyuk was incredibly weak. Given the context of how the series and that game was being called. Particularly when the Ducks could hold up anyone entering their zone with impunity. And the play worse than Lilly's (at least in terms of impact) was Franzen's weak attempt to clear the zone on his backhand with less than a minute to go. He had time to go forehand and rip it down the ice. He didn't, it got knocked down, passed to Scotty, who fluttered a shot of Nick's stick and over Dom's shoulder to tie it. That puck gets cleared we win and go up 3-2 on the series.

We matched up better vs Ottawa than we did against the Ducks. We squeak by Anaheim and I like our odds to take home the silver.

The penalty on Dats was iffy. Not because it was a questionable situation, but because borderline situations like that had been let go all game. If that call is let go, consistent with many other situations throughout the game, the Wings win game 5, instead of going to OT on a fluky PP goal. That means they have all the momentum and the advantage going into a decisive Game 6. Without the call on Dats, they have to win 5 more games, and have significantly more momentum and confidence.

I don't think the call on Dats was incredibly weak. To me the only reason I was surprised it was called was because of context, because it was late in the game. If memory serves, he wasn't moving his feet and pretty clearly slowed the guy up.

The Ducks definitely mastered intereference without the stick. They figured out faster than the rest of the league that as long as you've got both hands on the stick, you can pretty much set picks and run interference without getting calls.

Either way, the point is that it was more than that one call or play that kept the Wings from the Cup. To say that if they get that break, the Cup is theirs is unfounded and pretty arrogant.

Edited October 17, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[norrisnick 1]

I don't think the call on Dats was incredibly weak. To me the only reason I was surprised it was called was because of context, because it was late in the game. If memory serves, he wasn't moving his feet and pretty clearly slowed the guy up.

The Ducks definitely mastered intereference without the stick. They figured out faster than the rest of the league that as long as you've got both hands on the stick, you can pretty much set picks and run interference without getting calls.

Either way, the point is that it was more than that one call or play that kept the Wings from the Cup. To say that if they get that break, the Cup is theirs is unfounded and pretty arrogant.

Unfounded? I disagree. Arrogant? What's wrong with that?

[Guest jaytan]

I'm glad Babs had the stones to make this call so soon. Obviously, it's not a huge thing yet, but if Hasek is still capable of being a decent No. 1 goaltender in this league, maybe this will wake him up to the fact that he's going to have to play like one to have real job security.

I sure hope Ozzie plays well.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Unfounded? I disagree. Arrogant? What's wrong with that?

as for the unfounded part, the basic point is that you can't know what would've happened. that's why you play the games.

There have been several years where Detroit looked like the team to roll easily to the Conference Finals, if not the Cup. But it didn't exactly pan out.

I'm glad Babs had the stones to make this call so soon. Obviously, it's not a huge thing yet, but if Hasek is still capable of being a decent No. 1 goaltender in this league, maybe this will wake him up to the fact that he's going to have to play like one to have real job security.

I sure hope Ozzie plays well.

Hopefully dom will get pissed and come back on fire, like he does after he gets chased from the net.

I'm pretty sure he's got some crazy number of shutouts the game after he's been pulled.

But if Ozzy plays well, then that's a great problem to have.

[norrisnick 1]

as for the unfounded part, the basic point is that you can't know what would've happened. that's why you play the games.

There have been several years where Detroit looked like the team to roll easily to the Conference Finals, if not the Cup. But it didn't exactly pan out.

I merely said I liked the odds. As for your last point, it's not as if I said that on the eve of the playoffs. We were a bad call, bad bounce, or bad turnover (take your pick) from being a win away from the Finals. At that point it is not at all presumptuous to believe we had a team good enough to win the Cup. Can you imagine the confidence boost of beating the big bad Flames, the big bad Sharks, and big bad Ducks in succession? The Sens were one big line and little else. The Ducks shut down the line and the team. IMO, we would have been capable of doing the same.

[Kp-Wings 3]

But if Ozzy plays well, then that's a great problem to have.

Other then the fact that Hasek will probably walk out and leave if he is downgraded to being the backup goalie.

If Osgood played that increadibly well, then it wouldn't be a big deal. Hell, we'd have 2.5 million more in cap room if Hasek left, and just bring up Howard as the backup.

The thing is, I really doubt that will happen. For one, Osgood has only played in 2 games this year. That's not enough to make a final judgement on.

Secondly, as mad as I was at Hasek after Monday's game, there is no denying his talent. He has a way of bouncing back after absolutley horrible starts, so hopefully it'll happen again this year.

It'll be a waiting progress right now. The Wings were below .500 at the end of October last season, but that really didn't effect them in the long run. We'll see what happens.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I merely said I liked the odds. As for your last point, it's not as if I said that on the eve of the playoffs. We were a bad call, bad bounce, or bad turnover (take your pick) from being a win away from the Finals. At that point it is not at all presumptuous to believe we had a team good enough to win the Cup. Can you imagine the confidence boost of beating the big bad Flames, the big bad Sharks, and big bad Ducks in succession? The Sens were one big line and little else. The Ducks shut down the line and the team. IMO, we would have been capable of doing the same.

I agree that at that point, it's not presumptious to believe we had a team good enough to win the Cup.

That's different than saying we were basically one bad bounce away from winning the Stanley Cup.

It all looks good on paper, but you gotta play the game on the ice.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

God I hate when my teams lose games. Not so much because they lost, more so because it’s so annoying seeing/hearing the IQ levels of fans significantly drop after a loss and go to panic mode in sports media outlets.

I don’t have a strong positive or negative bias towards either Hasek or Osgood, I like both goalies the same/am indifferent towards them, but let’s get serious here. And for the big Osgood fans, THIS IS NO KNOCK ON OSGOOD as Osgood is the man to me as well.

Now…

1. It’s not even 10 games into the season. This isn’t college or pro football where you only have an 11-16 game season. You play at least 80 games in a hockey season. Hell, you play probably a rough estimate of 35 games by December. Even the 35 games are PLENTY OF TIME for Hasek to have plenty of shutout/1-goal/2-goal games and rack up some more wins.

2. Hasek is known to start slow then eventually crank it up a few notches later in a season.

3. Now I’ve never played goalie or hockey for that matter, but I think it is accurately safe to assume this, despite me being a mentally challenged adult. Hasek flopping around like a fish and doing snow angels may not work for other goalies, but it has worked for him his entire career and helped him gain multiple Vezina trophies. It is his own style that has worked best for him. It’s so fricken annoying when fans keep saying that he should change his playing style completely after a loss or two when the style is unique to him and has made him one of the best goalies of his time. Hasek is not going to change his style anytime soon just to please fans that might not like him, his playing style, or ones that are over-panicking.

4. It’s not accurate to make assumptions about either goalie playing well or crappy against the best/worst teams in the league right now, because the season is not even a month old and we don’t know which teams are going to completely dominate yet or just fall into the crapper. Maybe the Hawks will finally get it together this season and contend for a playoff spot or make it. Maybe Anaheim will wake up from their early season lull and jet lag overseas soon and find their groove. Maybe the Kings will stink it up (Osgood’s win) this year. Nobody completely knows yet.

5. See numbers 1-4 and repeat multiple times.

Babcock's got a hold of this if Hasek completely falls in the s**tter, as briefly referenced in the MLive article. But it’s so damn early right now, and this is one of the best goalies ever to play the sport. I’m not trying to attack any one specific person and I know I'm coming off like a jackass in this post in the wrong way, but some of the reactions in here are just ridiculous and this thread has very little logic.

We have to think people, not idiotically overreact. Two different things. I know the people who have posted in here are much smarter than some of the posts they doled out in this thread.

Edited October 17, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[therock48880 14]

I agree that at that point, it's not presumptious to believe we had a team good enough to win the Cup.

That's different than saying we were basically one bad bounce away from winning the Stanley Cup.

It all looks good on paper, but you gotta play the game on the ice.

I completely agree. It cracks me up when I read comments like the wings were a bad call from winning the Cup. (not referring to you NN). That call didn't take place in game 7 of the Cup finals. There was a LOT of hockey left to be played. Could the wings have beaten Ottawa? Absolutely. Could they have suffered an emotional letdown after getting through the Western Conference and ended up losing to Ottawa, not to mention the physical beating that they took in the playoffs? Absolutely. The fact is, the Wings weren't quite good enough to win last year. They were very close, but not quite there. It's that simple.

God I hate when my teams lose games. Not so much because they lost, more so because it’s so annoying seeing/hearing the IQ levels of fans significantly drop after a loss and go to panic mode in sports media outlets.

IT"S BEEN 7 GAMES PEOPLE! Dom isn't the only goalie in the nhl that's gotten off to a rocky start. Are the Vancouver fans calling for Luongo to retire and be replaced by someone else? I doubt it. For anyone to suggest, which someone did in this thread, that Hasek should retire and Howard should back up Osgood is amazing considering it's been SEVEN GAMES. Forgetting Osgood and Hasek, the effect that would have on Howard would be extremely negative. The kid needs to play in GR. So, everyone take a Xanax and relax a little.

[norrisnick 1]

I completely agree. It cracks me up when I read comments like the wings were a bad call from winning the Cup. (not referring to you NN). That call didn't take place in game 7 of the Cup finals. There was a LOT of hockey left to be played. Could the wings have beaten Ottawa? Absolutely. Could they have suffered an emotional letdown after getting through the Western Conference and ended up losing to Ottawa, not to mention the physical beating that they took in the playoffs? Absolutely. The fact is, the Wings weren't quite good enough to win last year. They were very close, but not quite there. It's that simple.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The loss in the WCF had nothing to do with not being good enough.

[Heaton 1]

And Babcock isn't really a big Osgood supporter.

[GSBrooks13 204]

Mike Babcock has announced that Osgood will get the start against San Jose because of the fact that he has played better than Hasek.

And just for the record I think Dom should have just retired after being HORRIBLE in the playoffs. But instead I have to sit here and watch him throw away games and valuable points. Oh well.. Detroit will win the cup this year with or without Hasek.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Mike Babcock has announced that Osgood will get the start against San Jose because of the fact that he has played better than Hasek.

And just for the record I think Dom should have just retired after being HORRIBLE in the playoffs. But instead I have to sit here and watch him throw away games and valuable points. Oh well.. Detroit will win the cup this year with or without Hasek.

Yeah he was so horrible that he got us 2 games from the Stanley Cup Finals. CoughcoughDUMBASScoughcough

[puckloo39 5,686]

Yeah he was so horrible that he got us 2 games from the Stanley Cup Finals. CoughcoughDUMBASScoughcough

gotta love it when people actually join the forum just to "contribute" comments like the guy you answered, huh, DetroitIan?

[RedRockit 0]

Yeah he was so horrible that he got us 2 games from the Stanley Cup Finals. CoughcoughDUMBASScoughcough

I originally wanted to chime in on this thread to me-too SouthernWingsFan's post, but I really wanna me-too this one, too.

So me-too both you two. Twice.

Edited October 18, 2007 by RedRockit

[GSBrooks13 204]

Well im sorry for being honest.. I will admit last season he was great.. and the first round and a half of the playoffs he was good but by the time Anaheim was done with him I had to close my eyes everytime they took a shot because I got tired of Dom falling on his ass and making the save only to be completely out of position allowing an easy tap in..

And dont call me a dumbass because I am not saying that losing in the Playoffs was Doms fault.. I mean in the end it was a series of events that lead to Anaheim winning. I am just saying Dom should have retired and if there is going to be a goalie controversy in Detroit it should be Howard and Osgood.

Now you can bash me all you want because I dont care.. I am a Detroit Red Wings fan and I always will be but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that any other fan would think.

[RedRockit 0]

Well im sorry for being honest.. I will admit last season he was great.. and the first round and a half of the playoffs he was good but by the time Anaheim was done with him I had to close my eyes everytime they took a shot because I got tired of Dom falling on his ass and making the save only to be completely out of position allowing an easy tap in..

And dont call me a dumbass because I am not saying that losing in the Playoffs was Doms fault.. I mean in the end it was a series of events that lead to Anaheim winning. I am just saying Dom should have retired and if there is going to be a goalie controversy in Detroit it should be Howard and Osgood.

Now you can bash me all you want because I dont care.. I am a Detroit Red Wings fan and I always will be but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that any other fan would think.

I won't baxh you, and of course you have a right to your opinion, but you need to go back and take a long hard look at those GA's.

And IMHO, we never would have played as long as we did in the season w/o Dom.

(and I'm am Osgood luvva)

[russianswede919293 95]

Nobody should read too far into this. Every goaltender has hot and cold streaks. It is a matter of Ozzie being hot and Dom being a little cold. Babcockles just wants to get 3 out of 4 points to end this road trip and he probably feels that on a west coast road trip early in the season its important to win these match-ups. Oz has played like a beast lately and Babcock wants to ride that hot streak before it dies down (we all know Oz can be a bit streaky), and Dom has been a bit cold, and maybe he thinks Ozzie can turn momentum around and steal one how he has been playing so that the team plays better D in front of Dom which will get his confidence back up and get him going. Ozzie playing a few more games than last year is a good thing because Hasek will be more rested come playoff time and that is when we need him most. So no reading into this anymore than riding a hot goalie and trying to turn momentum around, because to be honest the team sucked the last 2 games and was pretty lucky they turned things around in the LA game as well.

[GSBrooks13 204]

Unfortunatley I have taken a long hard look at those goals and maybe I am being hard on Dom because Dom falling on his ass is what you expect when you have Dom in net. But watching the goals that go in as a result of his flopping around makes me think it would be great to have a bit of a more conventional goalie in net.

I have nothing against Dom because he did take us withing 2 games of the Finals but I cant help but think if he has more than 20 shots on him in a game you're asking for trouble. If you look at a lot of Doms saves in a 15 shot game id say a majority of them are because the other teams player couldnt get the puck up over the snow angel.

And just so everyone knows Dom's not so amazing play against Anaheim in the playoffs did not piss me off nearly as much as Lilja's amazing give away..

But it doesn't really matter what any of us think because in the end it will be Dom as the #1 goalie this year in Detroit and hopefully this is just a cold streak. I guess we will see where Dom really stands when he starts against Phoenix..

[gcom007 1,465]

Wow...I'm borderline surprised...not shocked. As said, I wasn't that impressed with Hasek most of last year and this year something that's definitely deeper than "slow start" has seemed off about Hasek to while Osgood has continued to play well and dare I say still be improving in different aspects of his game? The great thing about being more of a mental goalie as opposed to a flopper is that even as you get older, it's easier to play more consistent. And yeah, again, I'm no Osgood lover nor Hasek hater...I call it how I see it and honestly, since 2nd half of last season, I've felt that Osgoods been the better goalie.

[Guest DetroitIan]

gotta love it when people actually join the forum just to "contribute" comments like the guy you answered, huh, DetroitIan?

Yeah it's pretty sad. People like that just boggle the mind.

[maltbyrocks18 0]

I'd start Chris Chelios. What's to stop him from posting 60 shutouts this season?

On a serious note, I wish we hadn't spent the money to re-sign Hasek and said all offseason that we shouldn't. Ozzie's taken us to the Cup before and he can still handle it. And he doesn't scare me like Hasek does sometimes.

Of course, now that we've signed Hasek on for another year, it would be stupid not to use him. I think they should basically split the regular season until Hasek's injury occurs. Then Ozzie can carry the load for the rest of the season.

like last season??

hasek is a slow starter, this same thing happened last season as well. It is way to early for anything like a starter change when a team hasn't even played 10 games yet, let alone the goalie in question.

I mean with this logic, we should make osgood starter with draper first line center and put dats on the grind line. i mean obviously draper has proven hes the better goal scorer right???