Why isnt Osgood starting

[irishtemper14+25 11]

you cant blame last night on dom...i mean we had way to many penalties which made me stop watching a few times when i saw some bulls*** penalties

[Guest jaytan]

Who do you think is better, Hasek or Samuelsson?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

If Osgood becomes the starter, then I wouldn't be surprised if Hasek just leaves Detroit. He seems like the kind of guy that won't take the backup role for anybody, especially at this point in his career. He's a very proud individual, and he's already accomplished everything there is to accomplish. He came back to win another cup, and not as a backup, but as the starter.

[OsGOD 3]

because if Ozzie was starting that would mean that Howard was backing up and Dom would no longer be with the team and it would be Oct 2008?

Have i missed a year already? Damn

[Kp-Wings 3]

Norm Maracle works for me too! Hell, bring em both back and we'll dump Ozzie and Dom! Why don't we get Kevin Hodson out of retirement while we're at it?

I hear Vincent Riendeau is still looking for work also.

[kylee 727]

If Osgood becomes the starter, then I wouldn't be surprised if Hasek just leaves Detroit. He seems like the kind of guy that won't take the backup role for anybody, especially at this point in his career. He's a very proud individual, and he's already accomplished everything there is to accomplish. He came back to win another cup, and not as a backup, but as the starter.

very good point.

that is one thing about Dom, he is very proud of himself and what he does. im not a fan of that exactly, i just want him to play like we all know he can and win big hockey games.

as much as i LOVE ozzie, if there is any type of goalie controversy with the Wings, that wont be a good thing.

i just dont know if ozzie can take us to that level of winning the Cup. i mean this isnt 9 years ago, love the guy to death, love to see him prove me wrong but, maybe a goalie tandem to the Cup? im way into that.

[Izzy24 44]

very good point.

that is one thing about Dom, he is very proud of himself and what he does. im not a fan of that exactly, i just want him to play like we all know he can and win big hockey games.

as much as i LOVE ozzie, if there is any type of goalie controversy with the Wings, that wont be a good thing.

i just dont know if ozzie can take us to that level of winning the Cup. i mean this isnt 9 years ago, love the guy to death, love to see him prove me wrong but, maybe a goalie tandem to the Cup? im way into that.

A tandem can work in the regular season, but in the playoffs you gotta pick one and go with 'em.

[Guest jaytan]

If Osgood becomes the starter, then I wouldn't be surprised if Hasek just leaves Detroit. He seems like the kind of guy that won't take the backup role for anybody, especially at this point in his career. He's a very proud individual, and he's already accomplished everything there is to accomplish. He came back to win another cup, and not as a backup, but as the starter.

Nobody else would want him. It was risky enough signing the guy last season, and now he's just overdue for major problems.

[Flip-check 6]

Who do you think is better, Hasek or Samuelsson?

As LGW's favorite whipping boy?

I say Sammy, with Hasek closing in fast. Dats in third soon depending on the mob's mood.

[Outsider 42]

Yea we wouldnt want ozzie to steal haseks spot just because he can be more solid in net and actually stop a one on one with the goalie now would we? 6 Goals? Come on, ok one of them was an empty net, one was deflected off kronwall, and one was a result the ducks forwards crashing the net. But the other 3 were his fautl, and would have eventually kept the game tied for a decent amount of time. I wouldnt mind seeing ozzie being number 1. But he has to prove himself. And hes on his way of attempting that. Losing to a team that was 2-4 by 3 goals, im sorry but thats the netminders responcibility too

Yeah. Wouldn't want that. Well.....at least Babcock wouldn't want it.

Just like he didn't want it during the '05-06 Season, when Osgood clearly outplayed Legace down the stretch. And Babcock certainly didn't want it when his chosen Starter was talking about how much he needed to go home and cuddle with his wife, or how he felt like hanging himself, when the pressure ramped up during the Play-Offs against Edmonton.

And I agree with GMRedwings1983 when he states that Hasek would probably simply leave Detroit were his #1 status so much as threatened, however temporarily, rather than stay and accept a diminished role.

[shadow47 1]

Let's be realistic here people:

--Hasek's play so far this season has been so so overall, his game against Anaheim wasn't good at all, I believe I may have said it was 'awful' to a friend of mine.

--The Dom is not the goalie he once was, injuries and age have slowed his reflexes considerably, he is still capable obviously but no one should think he is a spry 37 year old anymore. Dom's last invincible year was early 1999-2000 season. Those who've followed his career have seen it peak in around 1998-99, then drop off slightly every year, even in '02. His time in Ottawa was like a renaissance, to me he seemed finally to be a dominant force again, it was 2001 again the way he looked, unfortunately we know what happened. The guy is only human and is trying the best he can is the point.

--Osgood has looked fine, even good in games this year. Not stellar by any means, but less shaky than DH. That said, we are 7 games in as has been mentioned. The Wings are going to make the playoffs guaranteed so regular season is just glorified preseason and should be treated so by fans who can actually tie their belt on correctly. Does it matter if Hasek is flaky in early games as long as he's going at the end?

--Anyone who watched the Vancouver opener last year will not be concerned with DH's lack of quality playing at this point in time this season.

--I know it seems easy to slag Hasek because he's not the perfect technical goalie, the young people just getting into hockey in the last 5 years or so are not going to figure it out that it just makes you sound ignorant, Hasek has had more success and prominence than Luongo, Kipprusoff, all your favorites, all those you perceive to be "perfect goalies". Brodeur is the only one in Dom's league and he plays basically the same style. Hasek gets the press for his flopping but both of these guys play an old-school one knee down/half butterfly/pad stack/flop type game, so get off the Dom for his style, it is plenty effective overall.

--There is no precedent for Hasek leaving a team if reduced to backup, no reason to even think that would happen. Dom is totally professional to a fault and if that was what was being asked of him I'm confident he would be fine with it. He would practice his hardest everytime he got on the ice to win back his job (see 1995 season for evidence of this), but if he couldn't he would support the team and respect the contract he signed with Holland and Detroit.

[Duck Guy 86]

all goalies have bad nights..

[Hiei 192]

Except Bip. His pads are so goddamn big he stops the shots that are heading for the net above the glass!

Leave Dom In. If this happens again, put Ozzy in. Nip it in the butt early in the season!

[interminded 1]

all goalies have bad nights..

A look at the goalie stats on october 17 (nhl.com)

18 Roberto Luongo VAN 6 148 .897 3 3 0 17 3.17 165 0 0 2 0 322:00

19 Evgeni Nabokov SJS 6 120 .896 3 2 1 14 2.40 134 0 0 1 0 349:51

20 Tomas Vokoun FLA 4 109 .893 2 2 0 13 3.28 122 1 0 0 0 238:25

21 Dwayne Roloson EDM 5 107 .892 1 3 0 13 2.81 120 0 0 0 0 278:01

22 Ryan Miller BUF 4 92 .885 2 2 0 12 3.04 104 1 0 0 0 237:15

23 Martin Brodeur NJD 4 94 .878 1 3 0 13 3.26 107 0 0 0 0 239:12

24 Vesa Toskala TOR 4 129 .878 1 3 0 18 4.48 147 0 0 0 0 240:56

25 Marc-Andre Fleury PIT 4 92 .876 2 2 0 13 3.82 105 0 0 0 0 203:34

26 Chris Mason NSH 5 112 .875 2 3 0 16 3.75 128 1 0 0 0 256:12

27 Miikka Kiprusoff CGY 5 119 .875 2 2 1 17 3.33 136 0 0 0 2 306:20

28 Dominik Hasek DET 5 104 .874 2 2 1 15 2.94 119 0 0 1 4 306:21

These are some pretty impressive names, aren't they ? All of them have a save percentage under .900 and with the exception of Nabokov and Roloson they all have a GAA above 3.00. I remember Martin Brodeur have a equally shaky start last year... in the end he won the Vezina winning every stat-category.

I bet they all will look fine after 82 games.

So will Dom.

So will Ozzie.

As they looked last year.

Goaltending wasn't and isn't the issue.

[raidedredwing2 0]

Technically, the Ducks are one of the worse teams in the league. Check the standings (before the Wings game of course).

Ozzie beat the Kings, who beat the Ducks. And before the game last night the Kings offense wwas much more potent than the Ducks. And the same goes for the Flames. So...

My opinion, if Hasek give one away against the Sharks like he did with the Ducks, put Ozzie in and ride him until he fails like Hasek did.

Totally Agree.

Hasek can be great, but im not convinced that being the number 1 guy is solely based on his past numbers / MVP's / Trophies / ECT. This is now, and the game has changed alot since then.

[therock48880 14]

Hasek's always been a slow starter, even in the SIX years that he won the Vezina. I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. I don't hear people saying Lidstrom should be benched and he's playing terrible. Actually, the whole defense, Hasek included, is playing terrible, in my opinion.

To be far to Hasek. he's old But if he wants to win needs to push himself , and o better. To be honest when hasek is in net he makes me nervous . Im prob not the only one that thinks that. I raither have soemone who is more stand up , and save for save raither then floppin and hopin to save it. I feel that Ozzi should be the start if hasek keeps doing this. Thats my opinion.

Hasek makes you more nervous than Osgood? That's hillarious.

[puckloo39 5,686]

shadow and interminded, very good reviews and stats... but only of interest to those who intend to be fair-minded and reasonable about the current situation in the Red Wings' goal, seven games into the season.

Thank you for the great attempt to put some perspective on the "goalie problem" in Detroit. Dom will be fine. So will Ozzie. But, as shadow said, Dom's a total, proven professional and without question, a team player. If Detroit management decides they want him gone, Dom will be packing his bags before Kenny gets the words out of his mouth.

But I wouldn't expect that to happen.

Edited October 17, 2007 by puckloo39

[b.shanafan14 733]

I feel that many people are committed Hasek fans, which is fine, to each his own. To me Dom has always come off as a bit arrogant at times. Some may see it as a competitive streak, and sometimes it is. But I do think that a lot of people have the Mike Babcock way of thinking, with the "this player is better despite resent/consistent performance". Look at how long Hudler got sent down to GR or next to no minutes when he would be great when he was in there. Yes, Hasek has flashes of brilliance when he is flopping around kicking puck. But his play at this point of his career is not sufficient for success. This season, yes, very slow start, but if there is anytime to win games, its early in the season. Osgood may not be brilliant but his a extremely consistent and is rarely flat on his back, which is a chronic problem with Dom. In the elimination game last playoffs, Dom played horrible, like a cardboard cut out, gets hit with the puck, falls flat on his back, 1 or 2 times a good 5 feet away from the goal. I know people think you can't ice Dom because he won't get better or that he is still better than Osgood, definately welcome to their argument and opinion, but mine is this:

When is Dom's play gonna be bad enough and Osgood's play gonna be good enough, to consider Ozzie for a greater role?

[Dominator2005 558]

Every year same "questions/speculations"... Hasek is old, injury prone...

He played ONLY 5 games so far - HE IS SLOW STARTER - you don't win STANLEY CUP IN OCTOBER!!! i don't think that Hasek is problem - our DEF is weak Lilja, Lebda and even Kronwall - they can be better for sure... We have 1 line scoring and that's it...

[MJN 0]

I'd say people rely too much on the past for the current argument of Ozzie vs Dom. I agree that when you compare Ozzie and Dom in the history of their careers that Dom will be regarded as the better goalie of all time. Likewise as was earlier pointed out, Ozzie used to let in 800 foot shots.

Looking at this season so far, and maybe even to the second half of last season, I personally believe that Ozzie's performances have looked much stronger than Dom's.

Dom no longer stands on his head like he used to. He let's in chippy goals and seems to get rattled a lot easier. Now that's not to say he can't turn it around and have an incredible season or a playoff.

I also feel irrespective of who's behind Dom, one thing I've sensed is that his reaction time and his positioning while far better than the majority of goalies in the league seems slower and wackier than it used to be. I was actually way more impressed and inspired by Bryzgalov's performance the other night.

Ozzie of course is no spring chicken, but I think he's more spry at this point. Ozzie probably isn't the answer either, rather I think what some of us are sensing is that Dom, while good, doesn't compare to Giguere or Luongo or even early season Bryzgalov. That head to head, he'll be good for saving us a goal or two when we need it, but that we' may fall to a mightier new young turk like we have in playoffs past. While he's still magical, he's no longer magical in the way that he was.

[Spongewingredpants 75]

cause he is still the backup goalie

[puckloo39 5,686]

I'd say people rely too much on the past for the current argument of Ozzie vs Dom. I agree that when you compare

Ozzie of course is no spring chicken, but I think he's more spry at this point. Ozzie probably isn't the answer either, rather I think what some of us are sensing is that Dom, while good, doesn't compare to Giguere or Luongo or even early season Bryzgalov. That head to head, he'll be good for saving us a goal or two when we need it, but that we' may fall to a mightier new young turk like we have in playoffs past. While he's still magical, he's no longer magical in the way that he was.

actually, if Dom had one more game and as many minutes and SA as Luongo, they just might compare or Dom could be ahead of him. IM did the homework on this in his earlier post:

18 Roberto Luongo VAN 6 148 .897 3 3 0 17 3.17 165 0 0 2 0 322:00

28 Dominik Hasek DET 5 104 .874 2 2 1 15 2.94 119 0 0 1 4 306:21

Luongo is not great either, yet. Giguere isn't playing at all, still IR from his surgery. I do understand that it's tempting to say Hasek is over, and Luongo is king after 5 or 6 games, but who knows? Dom will never be 'good enough' for Detroit, but neither will Ozzie.

[Packer487 3]

This thread made me laugh a lot.

Yes, Ozzie played really well the other night. Yes, Dom has struggled somewhat in the early going. But it's been 5 games for Dom (and 2 for Ozzie against two stellar hockey teams. It's a little bit early to be like "Play Ozzie until Dom gets his head straight". Dom starts slow every season.

We're going to have the division clinched by March. We still won the Western Conference regular season title last year with Dom struggling in the early going. In the first 15 games last year, he gave up 4+ goals three times. Want to know how many times he did it the rest of the regular season? Twice.

The guy posted a 1.79, .923 in the playoffs last year. I think he's probably earned the right to not have people calling for his head after 5 regular season games.

Ozzie's doing a fine job in his role, but he's not unseating the greatest goalie to ever play the game. Especially based on wins over Edmonton and LA.

There are a lot of things about this team to worry about, but Dominik Hasek probably shouldn't be one of them. It's not like we haven't seen this before. It has a happy ending. Don't worry.

Worry about the fact that we can't score unless our top line (or Draper, strangely enough) is out there. Worry about the fact that Flip has shown exactly nothing this season. Worry about how I haven't heard Jiri Hudler's name once this season outside of shootouts. Worry about how our $3 million man on the blueline hasn't put a point yet and has the 2nd worst +/- on the team (though he has succeeding in going 2 weeks without getting hurt, so that's progress).

But Dom? Dom's fine. And it's beyond asinine to suggest that he should be benched at this point, or that we shouldn't have brought him back, or that Osgood is the better goalie(??!!). I mean seriously? You guys do know that we tied for the top spot in the league last year and we were one bad call away from probably winning the Stanley Cup right?

But Osgood is better.

And to cite his consistency as the reason why? Jesus. He was pretty good last year--I gave him all the credit in the world for his performances against Nashville down the stretch--but the year before the guy couldn't stop a goddamn beach ball....

This is great stuff.

[norrisnick 1]

It has begun...

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...san_jose_l.html

Update from practice Wednesday in San Jose: In a bit of a surprise, Wings coach Mike Babcock said he's starting Chris Osgood instead of Dominik Thursday against the Sharks. Babcock said it's simply a case of Osgood is playing better. I wouldn't read too much into it. There's no goalie controversy, Hasek is still the No. 1 guy, but Osgood is coming off a strong performance in L.A., while Hasek, who's lost two in a row in regulation, wasn't particularly sharp in Anaheim.

Khan says not to read too much into it, but it is interesting that Dom isn't being given the usual automatic benefit of the doubt. If Osgood can keep playing solid hockey with these extra starts there is no reason to keep him stapled to the bench in favor of a guy that isn't remotely close to playing up to his abilities. Personally I'm curious to see how Dom handles what in effect is a benching. I know that when he gets shelled he usually comes back with a strong game, but a benching? When's the last time that's happened?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

But Dom? Dom's fine. And it's beyond asinine to suggest that he should be benched at this point, or that we shouldn't have brought him back, or that Osgood is the better goalie(??!!). I mean seriously? You guys do know that we tied for the top spot in the league last year and we were one bad call away from probably winning the Stanley Cup right?

I agree with most of what you said, but this is a massive overstatement that's been thrown around a lot here.

Even aside from one "bad" call (are you referring to the one on Dats for interference? because that was a pretty solid call) or one bad play by Lilja, or whatever people claim is the one bad break that cost the Wings the series, they still had to win two more games against Anaheim. That's a tall order. And that was just the conference finals!

It's not like they lost in OT of game seven because of an unlucky break. They had to win 6 more games against two very good teams.