Complicated Osgood Question

[Tane 17]

Allright, There it is. Osgood's gonna play maybe 4 or 5 seasons after this, maybe more. He's been a winner everywhere he's gone. He gets a bad rap for not succeeding in New York or St. Louis, but He had Winning seasons on both teams, and has never had a losing seaon in his career. He Has WON a Stanley Cup, and has a second ring.

Year Team GPGSMIN W L T OTL EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO

1993-94 DET 41 37 2206 23 8 5 0 0 105 2.86 999 894 .895 2

1994-95 DET 19 19 1087 14 5 0 0 0 41 2.26 496 455 .917 1

1995-96 DET 50 47 2933 39 6 5 0 1 106 2.17 1190 1084 .911 5

1996-97 DET 47 45 2769 23 13 9 0 3 106 2.30 1175 1069 .910 6

1997-98 DET 64 64 3807 33 20 11 0 5 140 2.21 1605 1465 .913 6

1998-99 DET 63 63 3691 34 25 4 0 4 149 2.42 1654 1505 .910 3

1999-00 DET 53 52 3148 30 14 8 0 2 126 2.40 1349 1223 .907 6

2000-01 DET 52 48 2835 25 19 4 0 1 127 2.69 1310 1183 .903 1

2001-02 NYI 66 65 3743 32 25 6 0 6 156 2.50 1727 1571 .910 4

2002-03 NYI 37 36 1993 17 14 4 0 4 97 2.92 912 815 .894 2

2002-03 STL 9 9 532 4 3 2 0 1 27 3.05 241 214 .888 2

2003-04 STL 67 65 3861 31 25 8 0 3 144 2.24 1604 1460 .910 3

2005-06 DET 32 29 1846 20 6 0 5 3 85 2.76 828 743 .897 2

2006-07 DET 21 19 1161 11 3 0 6 1 46 2.38 496 450 .907 0

2007-08 DET 8 8 485 8 0 0 0 0 12 1.49 187 175 .936 0

Career 629 606 36097 344 186 66 11 34 1467 2.44 15773 14306 .907 43

Stats are a little Jumbled, but you can see what matters. No losing seasons.

I can't seem to find an all time shutout leaders list on the internet, But Ozzie ranks around 25-30 all time. He'll Probably get 400 wins.

shutouts

Terry Sawchuk, 103

George Hainsworth, 94

Martin Brodeur, 92

Glenn Hall, 84

Jacques Plante, 82

Tiny Thompson,

Alex Connell, 81

Tony Esposito,

Dominik Hasek,

Ed Belfour, 76

Lorne Chabot, 73

Harry Lumley, 71

Roy Worters, 67

Patrick Roy, 66

Turk Broda, 62

John Ross Roach, 58

Clint Benedict, 55

Bernie Parent,

Ed Giacomin, 54

Curtis Joseph, 51

21. Ken Dryden, 46

He's Current;y 16th all time in wins, and will most likely finish up in the top 10

all time wins

Patrick Roy, 551

Martin Brodeur, 494

Ed Belfour, 484

Terry Sawchuk, 447

Curtis Joseph, 446

Jacques Plante, 437

Tony Esposito, 423

Glenn Hall, 407

Grant Fuhr, 403

Mike Vernon, 385

John Vanbiesbrouck, 374

Andy Moog, 372

Tom Barrasso, 369

Dominik Hasek, 362

Rogatien Vachon, 355

16.Chris Osgood, 336

He Has Hall Of Fame Numbers without a doubt. He's won a cup. Is it enough to get him in to the Hall?

[HomeNugget 2]

if he can get us to one more cup and can make it to 400 i think he's worthy.

[Wingfan191 2]

Buccigross answered this very question in his last mailbag...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=3089750

Hey Bucci,

I just read that Chris Osgood has 339 career wins. Now, he did play on some amazing teams, but he also won a Cup as the starting goalie (1998) for the Wings and has, I believe, 43 shutouts. Is he a Hall of Famer? What if he gets to 400 wins? No matter how good your teams are, you don't do that without being very good yourself.

Take it easy,

Kurt Simer

Chris Osgood is 16th in all-time wins. No one can seem to figure out the criteria for goalies. Osgood has more wins and a lower goals-against average than Gump Worsley, but we all know Osgood is not going to end up in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

[Offsides 21]

I think he will. I think by the time he retires it'll look like a glaring omission if he's left out with his wins.

[HenryMalredo 2]

He won't be in. He has some good stats, but he got them on stacked teams, and the HHOF isn't very stat-centric anyways.

[OsGOD 3]

Buccigross answered this very question in his last mailbag...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=3089750

Hey Bucci,

I just read that Chris Osgood has 339 career wins. Now, he did play on some amazing teams, but he also won a Cup as the starting goalie (1998) for the Wings and has, I believe, 43 shutouts. Is he a Hall of Famer? What if he gets to 400 wins? No matter how good your teams are, you don't do that without being very good yourself.

Take it easy,

Kurt Simer

Chris Osgood is 16th in all-time wins. No one can seem to figure out the criteria for goalies. Osgood has more wins and a lower goals-against average than Gump Worsley, but we all know Osgood is not going to end up in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Luckily that is just Buccigross answering that question... Those who actually vote on it... thats the really people i care about to be quite honest.

[redmathew 0]

i say he will, but not right away, hes goin to be on the waiting list for awhile after he hangs'em up

[toby91_ca 620]

Let's be honest, ignore stats, how many actually think of him as one of the elite goalies over the past 20 years? I can't imagine there are many that do. His number of wins is clearly a benefit from playing with the Wings.

[Offsides 21]

There's a reason why Ozzie wins...and it's not been because he's been on the Wings or he'd have sucked elsewhere.

[toby91_ca 620]

There's a reason why Ozzie wins...and it's not been because he's been on the Wings or he'd have sucked elsewhere.

You are not objective.

[FinRedWing 172]

Maybe. If he's not treated like Glenn Anderson.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

He most definitely should be. I think if he gets 400 wins then it's a definite yes.

[Offsides 21]

You are not objective.

It doesn't matter if I'm objective, I never said anything that wasn't true. Labeling me as an Osgood fan doesn't make anything I say less valid.

[toby91_ca 620]

It doesn't matter if I'm objective, I never said anything that wasn't true. Labeling me as an Osgood fan doesn't make anything I say less valid.

His number of wins are inflated because he played for the Wings......I don't think he was the main reason they won all those games.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

His number of wins are inflated because he played for the Wings......I don't think he was the main reason they won all those games.

He wasn't the 'main' reason. No one said that. BUT he was a big reason why. The whole thing about him winning because he was on the Wings doesn't mean anything anymore, nor is it true. Why? Because he was on two MUCH lesser teams, and was still successful.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

His number of wins are inflated because he played for the Wings......I don't think he was the main reason they won all those games.

Yeah, and you can say the same for almost EVERY winning goalie. Brodeur played on stacked teams in the nineties and early 2000's. Roy certainly played on exclusively good teams.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Let's be honest, ignore stats, how many actually think of him as one of the elite goalies over the past 20 years? I can't imagine there are many that do. His number of wins is clearly a benefit from playing with the Wings.

He won't be in. He has some good stats, but he got them on stacked teams, and the HHOF isn't very stat-centric anyways.

...uh...

...did Patrick Roy play on crappy teams? Could one argue that half of his wins are because he played on great Montreal and Colorado teams? Didn't Broduer play for one of the best (if not the best) defensive teams to play in the 90's? Is it fair to say that half of his wins could be credited to the defensive system and all star players he played with? If you are saying Osgood only has as many wins as he does because of a stacked team, then this can be true of the others. BTW, the ONLY stacked team the Wings EVER had was 2001-2002 and guess what? Osgood didn't play for that team. No way can you call the 90's Wings teams STACKED. The Wings didn't start throwing money around like it was growing on trees until AFTER 1998. I think it's safe to say Osgood's record was helped by playing with a great defensive team in front of him, but no more than Broduer or Roy was. The only reason he MAY not make the HOF is because of WHERE he played. Nobody cares about players in Detroit, especially the news media and the NHL. Same reason Yzerman was NEVER looked upon as equal to Gretzky and Lemeiux. Look at the teams Gretzky played for in Edmonton, is it safe to say that half of his points should be credited to the likes of Messier, Anderson, Coffey, Kuri and the bunch? Yzerman played for the Dead Wings and was putting up 50 and 60 goals and over 100 points year after year. He WAS the Wings in the 80's. Say what you will about Hasek & Vernon, but Osgood has been the best Wings goalie since Terry Sawchuk, period. He deserves to be in the hall, he deserves his number retired he deserves to be making the money of a Khabibulan & Hasek AND he deserves his credit for the career numbers he put up, just has much credit as Broduer and Roy get for theirs...

#30 will not hang in the rafters, I'm sorry. No one likes Oz more than I do, but they guy has benefited quite a bit fromt he teams he has been on. He was never the weak point, but he was also never the game changer. Sure you can point to a few saves that changed games, but when can you say Osgood stole a series like say Kiprusoff did against the wings a few years back.

With that said, I said before the season that I would have liked to have seen an Osgood/Howard combo rather than Dom. Yeah he is all world when he is on, but he isnt always on

...uh, he has never stole a series? Let's see, 1998, Dallas, Jamie Langenbruner just scored in OT with a clearing shot from the center ice! HUGE momentumn swing, how does Osgood respond? Does he slam his stick, does he lose confidence? Nope, comes back the next game and shuts them out, STEALING the momentum back from the Stars, thus reclaiming the series that with one shot tilted heavily in their favor...

Edited November 10, 2007 by LeftWinger

[Demolition Man 0]

...uh...

...did Patrick Roy play on crappy teams? Could one argue that half of his wins are because he played on great Montreal and Colorado teams? Didn't Broduer play for one of the best (if not the best) defensive teams to play in the 90's? Is it fair to say that half of his wins could be credited to the defensive system and all star players he played with? If you are saying Osgood only has as many wins as he does because of a stacked team, then this can be true of the others. BTW, the ONLY stacked team the Wings EVER had was 2001-2002 and guess what? Osgood didn't play for that team. No way can you call the 90's Wings teams STACKED. The Wings didn't start throwing money around like it was growing on trees until AFTER 1998. I think it's safe to say Osgood's record was helped by playing with a great defensive team in front of him, but no more than Broduer or Roy was. The only reason he MAY not make the HOF is because of WHERE he played. Nobody cares about players in Detroit, especially the news media and the NHL. Same reason Yzerman was NEVER looked upon as equal to Gretzky and Lemeiux. Look at the teams Gretzky played for in Edmonton, is it safe to say that half of his points should be credited to the likes of Messier, Anderson, Coffey, Kuri and the bunch? Yzerman played for the Dead Wings and was putting up 50 and 60 goals and over 100 points year after year. He WAS the Wings in the 80's. Say what you will about Hasek & Vernon, but Osgood has been the best Wings goalie since Terry Sawchuk, period. He deserves to be in the hall, he deserves his number retired he deserves to be making the money of a Khabibulan & Hasek AND he deserves his credit for the career numbers he put up, just has much credit as Broduer and Roy get for theirs...

...uh, he has never stole a series? Let's see, 1998, Dallas, Jamie Langenbruner just scored in OT with a clearing shot from the center ice! HUGE momentumn swing, how does Osgood respond? Does he slam his stick, does he lose confidence? Nope, comes back the next game and shuts them out, STEALING the momentum back from the Stars, thus reclaiming the series that with one shot tilted heavily in their favor...

Very well said.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Demolition Man

[russianswede919293 95]

Yes he is Hall Worthy...But then again I though Vernon was too.

[eva unit zero 271]

His number of wins are inflated because he played for the Wings......I don't think he was the main reason they won all those games.

Osgood has never had a losing season. His worst season for GAA was 2.95, spent playing while injured and splitting time between two terrible defensive teams that were missing defensemen. Osgood has the numbers and accomplishments to put him in the Hall. Osgood may not have been the main reason the Wings wee dominant all through the 90s, but he was absolutely a huge reason in several of those seasons, most notably 96. Osgood went 39-6-5 in 95-96, when Mike Vernon went 21-7-2. Osgood had nearly twice as many wins as his backup, who had finished fourth in Vezina voting the previous season in his first year with the team, and was an All-Star six of eight seasons on his previous team. Maybe his wins total would be lower on bad teams had he been on bottom feeders for his career...but that would be the case with ANYBODY.

[dustin35 0]

The thing I hate the most is the only reason ozzie gets a bad rap is cuz of them few long goals in the 98 playoffs. take them away and he has no flaws in his career. it was once said he was only good cuz of his team but he proved that wrong playing with the isles and blues. ozzie has hall of fame numbers now in 5 years or so when hes done It would be a slap in the face if he didnt go to the hall of fame.

The thing I hate the most is the only reason ozzie gets a bad rap is cuz of them few long goals in the 98 playoffs. take them away and he has no flaws in his career. it was once said he was only good cuz of his team but he proved that wrong playing with the isles and blues. ozzie has hall of fame numbers now in 5 years or so when hes done It would be a slap in the face if he didnt go to the hall of fame.

[interminded 1]

I think Ozzie wil get in the HOF.

As mentioned earlier though... he will have to wait for it.

Kind of an Vanbiesbrouck scenario.

Although it was "easier" for him because he's the winningest US-born goalie. So that gives him an edge.

If Ozzie gets his 400 carreer wins, he has a very good shot, IMO.

[eva unit zero 271]

If Ozzie gets 400 wins, there's no way he doesn't get in.

That would be like the Ciccarelli thing, except Osgood has always been one of the good guys. Dino has the numbers to be in, but his personal conduct has kept him out...Ozzie will have the numbers to be in...and his personal conduct has been excellent.

[toby91_ca 620]

BTW, the ONLY stacked team the Wings EVER had was 2001-2002 and guess what? Osgood didn't play for that team.

Do you really believe that? Can you really say with a straight face that the 95/96 team wasn't stacked? They were pretty much stacked for most of the 90s.

In terms of Roy and Brodeur, the Canadiens and Devils were not crappy teams, but they were not comparable to Detroit.

He wasn't the 'main' reason. No one said that. BUT he was a big reason why. The whole thing about him winning because he was on the Wings doesn't mean anything anymore, nor is it true. Why? Because he was on two MUCH lesser teams, and was still successful.

Thinking he didn't benefit from playign on Detroit in terms of his number of wins is just strange, I don't see it as an opinion. He has 344 wins, 260 came playing with the Wings.

His winning percentage with the Wings = .641, with other teams = .525 (still good, but had he not played with the Wings, he would have far less wins).

01/02 season with New York, his teammate Garth Snow had a better winning %

02/03 season with St. Louis, his teammate Brathwaite had a better winning %

03/04 season with St. Louis, his teammate Brent Johnson (far less games however) had a better winning %.

I'm not trying to say those goalies were better than him, just disputing that he is hall worthy because of the number of wins he has.

[eva unit zero 271]

Do you really believe that? Can you really say with a straight face that the 95/96 team wasn't stacked? They were pretty much stacked for most of the 90s.

In terms of Roy and Brodeur, the Canadiens and Devils were not crappy teams, but they were not comparable to Detroit.

The Devils and Canadiens were pretty damn good for a long time. the Devils from 95 to 2001 scored basically the same amount of goals as Detroit did and the Devils generally allowed fewer shots; yet Brodeur is usually said to have played for weak teams while Osgood had some sort of 90s dynasty?

One of Roy's major accomplishments was leading the 'horrible' 1993 Canadiens to the Cup. That 'horrible' Canadiens team finished the regular season with 'only' 102 points, good for 6th overall. And this, BTW, was in what was likely Patty Roy's WORST regular season performance. If Roy plays like Roy in the regular season...the Canadiens likely have the talent to win the President's trophy. In the playoffs they only played one team with a better record; Quebec. Ok, what about 86? Well, in 86, the Canadiens finished 7th overall, but only played one opponent who had a better record; the Calgary Flames, who only posted a couple more points (6th overall if I recall correctly) and were playing rookie goaltender Mike Vernon. Roy's great successes in leading bad teams to the Cup are just myths. Those were good teams that benefitted from other good teams failing.

Thinking he didn't benefit from playign on Detroit in terms of his number of wins is just strange, I don't see it as an opinion. He has 344 wins, 260 came playing with the Wings.

His winning percentage with the Wings = .641, with other teams = .525 (still good, but had he not played with the Wings, he would have far less wins).

01/02 season with New York, his teammate Garth Snow had a better winning %

02/03 season with St. Louis, his teammate Brathwaite had a better winning %

03/04 season with St. Louis, his teammate Brent Johnson (far less games however) had a better winning %.

I'm not trying to say those goalies were better than him, just disputing that he is hall worthy because of the number of wins he has.

The 95-96 Wings might have been stacked. But at the same time, they don't win 62 games without Osgood playing as out of his mind as he did that season. Osgood won 39 games and lost 6. Beforey o usay 'stacked team' remember that Mike Vernon, on the same stacked team, won 21 and lost 7. Vernon, who was fourth in Vezina voting the year prior, and would win the Conn Smythe a year LATER, couldn't TOUCH Ozzie's performance in 95-96. Ozzie was absolutely robbed of the Vezina that season, despite the fact that he was the only guy at or near the top of every goaltending statistic.

Edited November 10, 2007 by eva unit zero