Wings to make offer for Sundin?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

upshall is 24 yrs old , his highest point total in his career is 24 pts and hes on pace for 27 ....... ya hes so much better then emmerton , thats why holland talks highly about him and hes one of our top ranked prospects

ryan parent i dont know much about but then again its basically meech or pyett and helm so its 2 for one

Upshall hasnt played a full injury free NHL season, when he does, he'll get 60-70 points easy.

Ryan Parent is a big, tough, talented defenseman. I like Meech and Pyett, but they cant even touch Parent.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Sundin has already made a lot of noise about wanting to stay in Toronto... and that if the organization decides to trade him to gain some prospects/picks he would consider allowing the NTC to be waived to "help the organization". All he talks about is helping Toronto. I don't think there's any chance he'd stay with us if he were traded here. I don't want a rental player.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

And Kenny won't give that much up.

100% agree, which is why we wont have Sundin. Its not as if Toronto has to trade Sundin, they are going to move him only if its an offer they cant turn down. There will always be those few teams every year willing to sell the farm to make a run....the fact the rentals havent panned out recently has no bearing on it.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Kindl

Hudler

1st

3rd (with that turning into a 1st if he re-signs)

Like it or not, thats reality.

i think your off on that 1 lol ..... just my opinion , itll be interesting to see if a team will be stupid enough to give up a 20+ goal scorer a top defensive prospect and those picks .... we'll see

[MacK_Attack 108]

and as good as sundin started the year hes cooled off ...... and forsberg is forsberg hes won the cup and knows what it takes to win , hes a winner , sundin has won crap playin for that leafs team ....... i dont think sundin is gonna get 2 top prospects another player and 2 picks or whatever it is that guy thinks the leafs will get

If you expected Sundin to maintain the 130 point pace he started out with than I think your expectations of him are way off. He's on pace for 90-100 points and that's pretty much where he should be.

There are some differences between Forsberg last year and Sundin this year that make Sundin more valuable on the trade market than Forsberg:

- Forsberg, while still very good, was not quite what he used to be. Mats is still producing at a world-class pace. I think Forsberg was point-per-game or slightly less last year. Pretty good, but that's a huge drop-off from normal Forsberg outputs.

- The trade deadline this year is going to feature far fewer top-notch forwards. In fact, Mats might be the only one to be had. That's huge for trade value. Simple supply and demand.

- Forsberg's injury history drove his value down because he was chronically injured. Mats has been relatively injury-free for his entire career and certainly has not had any chronic injuries.

Edited January 7, 2008 by MacK_Attack

[Guest wingswillwincup]

There is not one single can't-miss prospect in the system. I know what potential is there, but up and down the list there is absolutely nobody you can look at and guarantee will be an everyday player in the NHL. Closest we have is Howard, who I expect is good enough to be at least a backup, but you never know.

Therefore I expect it will probably take a player off the roster to get Sundin. This Emmerton-Pyett-Helm stuff won't cut it and we can stop pretending it will. As long as we don't give up Flip, I would just drool to have Sundin in the Winged Wheel.

i think kindl is a cant miss , only time will tell but he almost made the team a few yrs ago as a 19 yr old and can log 20-30 minutes a night , im not giivng up on him after an average or bad ahl season ..... i also think axelsson is gonna be a good one he gets me really excited

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i would trade any minor league player or picks before i trade hudler of filpula,

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Upshall hasnt played a full injury free NHL season, when he does, he'll get 60-70 points easy.

Ryan Parent is a big, tough, talented defenseman. I like Meech and Pyett, but they cant even touch Parent.

i dont know about 60-70 pts easily

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3132

even when playing hes on pace for 30-40 pts , that 60-70 pts comment is a bold statement , + they got alot better forwards ahead of him he wont get much ice time in philly , hes a 3rd liner ..... 30-40 pts a yr

parent i havent really seen him play but ... again its pyett or meech AND helm , so its 2 for 1 basically

[high_stick69 7]

Who is going to give Toronto their team for Sundin? Let them keep him if the asking price is so high. If he is sooooooo great and such an incredible world class player, then why would they want to trade him? The answer is: depth. They will look pretty stupid if they ask too much for Sundin, get stuck with him and continue to suck. Go ahead and keep Sundin, and keep losing Toronto! You're not going to get a Hershel Walker trade out of Detroit.

[VM1138 1,921]

Only players worth getting rid of for Sundin: Kopecky, Howard, Meech.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Who is going to give Toronto their team for Sundin? Let them keep him if the asking price is so high. If he is sooooooo great and such an incredible world class player, then why would they want to trade him? The answer is: depth. They will look pretty stupid if they ask too much for Sundin, get stuck with him and continue to suck. Go ahead and keep Sundin, and keep losing Toronto! You're not going to get a Hershel Walker trade out of Detroit.

Because he's 37 years old, the team is going nowhere and they have a chance to not only provide Mats with a chance to win a Cup, but to get a great head-start on re-modeling the team. It makes perfect sense for them to move Mats in the next six weeks.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Because he's 37 years old, the team is going nowhere and they have a chance to not only provide Mats with a chance to win a Cup, but to get a great head-start on re-modeling the team. It makes perfect sense for them to move Mats in the next six weeks.

Exactly.

[ethier_marc 1]

There won't be any announcement that he's waived his no-trade clause, if he does -- the announcement will be that he's been traded. To us, hopefully, for a sack of pucks and a Shooter Tutor

[YoungGuns1340 1]

One point a lot of people seem to be missing:

Sundin LOVES Toronto. He doesnt want to leave. Hell probably want to re-sign with Toronto, but if Toronto does approach him about being traded, you can be damn sure that he'll have a VERY short list of teams Toronto can work with. Im talking 3 or 4 teams. If hes loathe to even talk about a trade, theres no way hes going to the team that may or may not be a contender. IMO, hes gonna want to go to a team where he doesnt have to complete the puzzle, but can put that team over the top. Youre talking about Detroit, Ottawa, maybe Anaheim and Dallas. Its doubtful Toronto gives Sundin to a big rival, and its doubtful Anaheim has the space while Dallas itself is a longshot. And you can be sure the mini swedish all-star team will help with that. Im not saying hes only going to accept a trade here, but I dont think hes gonna want to head off to San Jose where their defense is inexperienced and their offense nearly non-existant, for example. Dont get me wrong, Detroit will still have to give up a lot, but the reduced competition will definitely help.

That being said, its gonna have to be something like

a 1st rounder (probably a sub 25 pick at best)

a conditional 1st or 2nd, contingent upon where Detroit lands in the playoffs

One of Smith or Kindl

One of Mursak, Ryno, or Emmerton.

IMO, thats fine by me. Dont get me wrong, I love those guys, but one of the reasons you have prospects is precisely for occasions like this. If we traded Kindl, I still like the look of a squad in 5 years that features Rafalski, Kronwall, Lebda, Smith, Ericsson, Quincey, plus UFAs for example. If we traded Mursak, Id still like the look of a forward corps that featured Hank, Datsyuk, Filppula, Hudler, Ryno, Axelsson, Emmerton, plus UFAs.

Id take a cup over the potential of a prospect any day. I think the Wings are as close as you can get to a Stanley Cup right now, and Sundin would be a ridiculous addition to the squad.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

There won't be any announcement that he's waived his no-trade clause, if he does -- the announcement will be that he's been traded. To us, hopefully, for a sack of pucks and a Shooter Tutor

So in other words, you're saying Sundin for Samuelsson straight up?

[stormboy 47]

as of dec. five. just sayin'.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Su...o?urn=nhl,56026

"...he says he already has chosen the team and the city where he will end his career. "It's right here," Sundin insisted yesterday at the Toronto Maple Leafs' Easter Seals skate. "I have no wish to move."

[shannyfan1414 0]

I have to say that i'm not interested strickly because he would be a rental player. I hate that whole situaiton and i would hate us to give up Hudler only to lose Mats at the end of the season.

Give them Sammy and Lilja and no more.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

as of dec. five. just sayin'.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Su...o?urn=nhl,56026

"...he says he already has chosen the team and the city where he will end his career. "It's right here," Sundin insisted yesterday at the Toronto Maple Leafs' Easter Seals skate. "I have no wish to move."

I can't believe that he's so contented with never winning a Cup. I predict that he'll go Cup hunting eventually, just like Ray Bourque did.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

as of dec. five. just sayin'.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Su...o?urn=nhl,56026

"...he says he already has chosen the team and the city where he will end his career. "It's right here," Sundin insisted yesterday at the Toronto Maple Leafs' Easter Seals skate. "I have no wish to move to win a Stanley Cup."

Fixed. Its a nice statement, but why the hell not accept a trade to a place where you have a great chance of winning, which will in turn give the Leafs some great prospects, which in turn will improve your team that you have the option of returning to.

Im betting if management approaches him about a good trade to Detroit, hed do it. After all, if he loves the team so much, why not facilitate a trade that would be in the Leafs best interest.

PS. There have been a lot more recent developments in the Sundin trade situation in recent weeks, and they all point to management wanting to trade him.

Edited January 7, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[betterREDthandead 58]

Fixed. Its a nice statement, but why the hell not accept a trade to a place where you have a great chance of winning, which will in turn give the Leafs some great prospects, which in turn will improve your team that you have the option of returning to.

Im betting if management approaches him about a good trade to Detroit, hed do it. After all, if he loves the team so much, why not facilitate a trade that would be in the Leafs best interest.

Maybe he doesn't just love the Leafs, he loves being on the Leafs. Maybe he feels like Ray Bourque cheapened himself by accepting a trade to a random team just to win a Cup. Maybe he feels like a championship wouldn't mean as much to him if he wasn't a Leaf when he won it.

If Sundin wants to retire a Leaf after a long Maple Leaf career, good on him. I don't see why Yzerman should be applauded for wanting to retire a Wing but Sundin would be criticized for doing essentially the same thing. And we Wings fans shouldn't feel snubbed or insulted if Sundin doesn't want to leave Toronto.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

One point a lot of people seem to be missing:

Sundin LOVES Toronto. He doesnt want to leave. Hell probably want to re-sign with Toronto, but if Toronto does approach him about being traded, you can be damn sure that he'll have a VERY short list of teams Toronto can work with. Im talking 3 or 4 teams. If hes loathe to even talk about a trade, theres no way hes going to the team that may or may not be a contender. IMO, hes gonna want to go to a team where he doesnt have to complete the puzzle, but can put that team over the top. Youre talking about Detroit, Ottawa, maybe Anaheim and Dallas. Its doubtful Toronto gives Sundin to a big rival, and its doubtful Anaheim has the space while Dallas itself is a longshot. And you can be sure the mini swedish all-star team will help with that. Im not saying hes only going to accept a trade here, but I dont think hes gonna want to head off to San Jose where their defense is inexperienced and their offense nearly non-existant, for example. Dont get me wrong, Detroit will still have to give up a lot, but the reduced competition will definitely help.

That being said, its gonna have to be something like

a 1st rounder (probably a sub 25 pick at best)

a conditional 1st or 2nd, contingent upon where Detroit lands in the playoffs

One of Smith or Kindl

One of Mursak, Ryno, or Emmerton.

IMO, thats fine by me. Dont get me wrong, I love those guys, but one of the reasons you have prospects is precisely for occasions like this. If we traded Kindl, I still like the look of a squad in 5 years that features Rafalski, Kronwall, Lebda, Smith, Ericsson, Quincey, plus UFAs for example. If we traded Mursak, Id still like the look of a forward corps that featured Hank, Datsyuk, Filppula, Hudler, Ryno, Axelsson, Emmerton, plus UFAs.

Id take a cup over the potential of a prospect any day. I think the Wings are as close as you can get to a Stanley Cup right now, and Sundin would be a ridiculous addition to the squad.

i still think were fine offensivly , id much rather get a physical defensemen ...... that being said i got no problem with giving up an emmerton or mursak , my problem is giving up a kindl or smith who show great promise , id much rather give a pyett meech or quincey , or heck even 2 of 3 .... rafalski in 3 -4 yrs when those guys could be in the lineup will be around 40 and on the decline ... lebda who knows if he will be here since his salary will go up and might just go elsewhere , anyways as much as id love sundin we need a physical defensemen to pound some guys , thats my main concern on this team

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Fixed. Its a nice statement, but why the hell not accept a trade to a place where you have a great chance of winning, which will in turn give the Leafs some great prospects, which in turn will improve your team that you have the option of returning to.

Im betting if management approaches him about a good trade to Detroit, hed do it. After all, if he loves the team so much, why not facilitate a trade that would be in the Leafs best interest.

PS. There have been a lot more recent developments in the Sundin trade situation in recent weeks, and they all point to management wanting to trade him.

sundin loving toronto so much just means he will go back when the season ends which means it would be even more stupid of us to give up a kindl or smith and an option of one of the 3 guys you mentioned , its not worth giving up 2 of our top prospects for a rental especially when were the number 1 scoring team in the nhl

these guys should end up with numbers around ....

zetterberg 40-55 goals

datsyuk 30-40 goals

holmsrom 30-40 goals

cleary 25- 30 goals

filppula 20-30 goals

hudler 15-25 goals

then we got

samuelsson

franzen

draper

all 10-15 goals

we are good upfront no need to give up the farm for a rental

[Lou_Siffer 1]

i dont know about 60-70 pts easily

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3132

even when playing hes on pace for 30-40 pts , that 60-70 pts comment is a bold statement , + they got alot better forwards ahead of him he wont get much ice time in philly , hes a 3rd liner ..... 30-40 pts a yr

parent i havent really seen him play but ... again its pyett or meech AND helm , so its 2 for 1 basically

2 for 1 doesnt mean squat! Its about the quality, not the quantity...its a point i dont think you're understanding. If the Leafs were offered the choice between Kindl alone or all 3 of Meech, Pyett, and Helm...they'd take Kindl without even thinking about it.

[Grittzkey 1]

Sundin, i wouldnt give them Hudler, who has been putting on points game in,game out. for a player who will be a wing for 1 year, comprared to a player who will be here for the next who knows how long.

Hudler is a beast in his own right, Why trade him for a old bald man.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Sundin is an amazing player with great poise and great confidence. Maybe the best when it comes to those two. His style of play would be welcome on this team and any team for that matter, and also we need his vocal leadership in the room. What's to stop us from getting Sundin? Honestly.

If it means making this team better, I'm for it. 1st round picks in 08, and 09... I'd give up. Alot of our second and third rate players, I'd give up. Sundin is a good player who still puts up great numbers on a team that ultimately just has him. Him on a team loaded with skilled fellow countrymen... He'd be nuts.

I'd say we make an offer.