Should We Alternate Goalies in the Playoffs?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I think we should use science and fuse them into one super-goalie so we can totally dominate...

Super Mutant Goalie HaskGood to the rescue!!!!!!!!!!! All right it's Super Late () so that's the best I could come up with.

Seriously, while it'd be unrealistic to expect the Wings to keep up this frantic pace all season, if the play of neither goalie doesn't drop off all that much, I wouldn't have a problem rotating them, even if such a method is generally frowned upon in hockey.

Both of them are around the top of their games at the present moment, both have loads of experience in big games and don't get all that rattled mentally, both seem to be comfortable with their roles of not starting a majority of the games, but starting more than enough to stay fresh, both seem comfortable with the other (in the heterosexual non-perverted kinda way ).

And a big for GMRWings for starting a goalie thread that actually doesn't go on to a flame war after 3 posts where we're ranting at each other saying OMG I'M A BIG OSGOOD FAN AND HASEK SUCKS OSGOOD IS GREAT or I'M A BIG HASEK FAN AND OSGOOD SUCKS HASEK IS GREAT, YOU ARE STOOPID IF YOU AREN'T AGREEING WITH ME (not that anybody in here in this thread is doing that of course ).

Edited January 8, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Osgood is clearly better statistically thusfar, but Dom has matched him game for game over the last month and a half. And yet somehow, some people on here just want to write off Dom's successes to him stopping the pucks he's supposed to stop, while Ozzie is not only stopping every shot on his own, he's handing out pizzas in the crowd while the puck is down in the other end, and saving puppies from getting run over on Jefferson while he's at it.

I don't think I went all the way back a month and a half, but over the last 8 games Ozzy is still better statistically than Dom, even as well as Hasek has played.

Who are these people you're talking about writing off Dom's successes? With the exception of maybe one or two members, I don't think anyone has really done that now that he's got his game back together.

As for the effusive praise for Osgood, this is a Wing fan site. He leads the NHL in GAA and SV% and we're more than halfway through the season. When was the last time a Wings goaltender did that? When Zetterberg was tearing up the league, there were threads here how he could walk on water and heal the blind. It's the nature of the beast.

What do Hasek's struggles in October and Osgood's hot start mean when the Playoffs roll around? If Hasek keeps playing like he's been playing, they aren't going to sit him in the playoffs because he didn't play well against Anaheim in October. 17 games into the season, Datsyuk had 2 goals. Does that mean anything now? No!

If you look at playoff performance, it's really not even close who has had more success. Especially in the recent past.

So play in October doesn't matter but play from last season and beyond does?

Hasek obviously has the better track record and Vezinas to prove it, but (I know this will get me flack) even last season in the playoffs I thought Hasek was good, not great. He was good enough.

So he gets the start because he was really good 6 years ago? Actually I think you have to go back to late 90s for when he was truly dominant. A game stealer.

All I want is the hot goalie to start in the playoffs. If that were today, it's still Ozzy in my book. And I think goalie rotation in the post season is a bad idea.

But the unfortunate reality is Ozzy won't get the start in the playoffs over Dom unless he continues his stellar performance and Hasek plays as poorly as he did at the start of the season. Babcock has never really been a fan of Osgood's and always seems to have him on a short leash, evidenced by starting Legace over him in the playoffs, in spite of Legace obviously wearing down and having a poor finish to the season.

If the gap betwen their level of play is any smaller, odds are Hasek gets the start. Whether it's fair or not, the job is his to lose.

[Packer487 3]

Super Mutant Goalie HaskGood to the rescue!!!!!!!!!!! All right it's Super Late () so that's the best I could come up with.

I believe the pronunciation of the Super Mutant Goalie's name should be "Hahs-good". Get it?

I don't think I went all the way back a month and a half, but over the last 8 games Ozzy is still better statistically than Dom, even as well as Hasek has played.

I posted the stats from their last 10 starts earlier in the thread. I started counting right after Dom had those back-to-back starts where people wanted to run him out of the city. Seemed reasonable enough. I think Osgood had one more game since that point, but I didn't count it in the interest of having 10 games for each. Had I put that one in there, and gone "Since November 22nd" or whatever, his numbers would probably be just a tick worse than they were since I think he had a SOL in there.

The point I was trying to make is that Dom has elevated his game to the level that Osgood has been at all season.

Who are these people you're talking about writing off Dom's successes? With the exception of maybe one or two members, I don't think anyone has really done that now that he's got his game back together.

Just look around. It might be a vocal minority, but in this thread alone someone said that if Hasek starts in the playoffs it'll just be because of his name (and not like...having a 1.47/.930 over the last month and change or anything like that...just his name). You've got people in pretty much every "goalie thread" saying that Dom is just stopping shots that anyone could save, but Ozzie is stealing games--but also that the team plays better when Osgood is in net, which seems to conflict. Weird. Then you've got someone who still has a "Hasek Haters" signature--though to his credit he did give Dom a little bit of props in this thread.

As for the effusive praise for Osgood, this is a Wing fan site. He leads the NHL in GAA and SV% and we're more than halfway through the season. When was the last time a Wings goaltender did that? When Zetterberg was tearing up the league, there were threads here how he could walk on water and heal the blind. It's the nature of the beast.

So where's the effusive praise for a goalie that has allowed like .3 goals per game LESS over the last month and a half (and who has a very similar save percentage and more shutouts in that span)? Are people qualifying the "Datsyuk is unreal" talk by saying "Yeah, but he only scored 2 goals in the first 17"? No. All the talk about how good Kronwall has been lately (which is deserved)...does anyone qualify that by saying "Yeah but he's sucked his whole career and wasn't too good for the first month"? No. So why should Dom's October have anything to do with how he's playing NOW?

I get that Ozzie is a fan favorite. He's a great story. Guy gets run outta here a few years back. Probably won't ever play for us again. Then he turns down 46 different NHL starting jobs (to hear people around here tell it) to come back here as a backup. Has one rough year, one pretty good year. Plays his role, is entertaining as hell in the process, good guy in the room. Then he comes out like a gangbuster this year and puts together what's likely an All-Star campaign. It's almost something you couldn't make up.

What I don't get is why every compliment toward Hasek has to be taken as a knock against Osgood. Or why a lot of these people who love Osgood seem to despise Dom. People need to learn that it's ok to praise both goalies, and just because I like Hasek a lot doesn't mean I hate Osgood. I mean, in this thread alone, I praised Ozzie 14 ways from Sunday and someone still wanted to know why 19-2-1 doesn't do anything for me--because I defend Hasek. It's really strange.

So play in October doesn't matter but play from last season and beyond does?

Put it this way. Dom has been outstanding his entire career. He's won 6 Vezinas, 2 Harts, a Cup, took an average team to the Finals, just last year had us on the brink of a trip to the Finals (or a Championship--not that I really want to have that argument again...I still say Ottawa sucked)....when a guy has been that good for that long, and gets off to an .869 save percentage for the first 11 games or so, then rips off 10 games with a .930 save percentage, which one would you view as the fluke?

If the playoffs started today, I wouldn't much care what Dom did at the start of the year. I'd care how he was playing right now. And right now, he's playing awesome.

It's the same as the people who wanted Osgood to start over Legace in 2005. Did any of them care that he had sucked for pretty much the entire season? No. But he was playing better down the stretch and they wanted him in net.

All I want is the hot goalie to start in the playoffs. If that were today, it's still Ozzy in my book. And I think goalie rotation in the post season is a bad idea.

They're both hot though! That's the point I've been trying to make. If you prefer Osgood, that's fine. I can understand not wanting to send an all-star to the bench. But there are a few people here who are trying to say that Dom would only be getting the job based on his name and not his play, and as Mike Gundy would say, "THAT'S NOT TRUE! SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!"

Dom's been every bit as good for the past month and a half. And he brings some things to the table that Osgood doesn't come playoff time (like having won a series this millennium). There's a perfectly good argument to make in Dom's favor.

I'm not sure how I feel about a goalie rotation in the playoffs. Usually it doesn't work (Hello Garth Snow and Ron Hextall!). This might be a unique situation. If both goalies keep playing the way they're playing, it's not crazy to think they could be 1-2 in GAA at the very least by the end of the year. It'd be really hard to tell one of them to take a seat for the postseason. I also don't know that having a quick hook is a good idea.

It's a damn nice problem to have though, eh?

But the unfortunate reality is Ozzy won't get the start in the playoffs over Dom unless he continues his stellar performance and Hasek plays as poorly as he did at the start of the season. Babcock has never really been a fan of Osgood's and always seems to have him on a short leash, evidenced by starting Legace over him in the playoffs, in spite of Legace obviously wearing down and having a poor finish to the season.

Why is that an unfortunate reality? If Dom plays really well the rest of the year, why shouldn't he start? He's clearly been the better goalie historically, and if he plays well for the last 85% of the season, it's pretty reasonable that he would get the nod in the playoffs. Even if Osgood has a career year.

And FTR a poor finish to the season? Legace didn't lose in regulation in his last 12 starts that year and had an 11-0-1 record heading into the post-season (and had just 2 starts with less than an 88 save percentage in that span). He lost just twice in regulation over his last 24 starts. It's not like he was playing badly heading into the playoffs. No, he didn't play well in the playoffs, but Osgood hadn't really shown anything that season to deserve the starting job.

If the gap betwen their level of play is any smaller, odds are Hasek gets the start. Whether it's fair or not, the job is his to lose.

It is fair. If the goalies are close, then you go with the one who has been there recently and who is arguably the best to play the game. If Osgood is clearly better, then I have no problem saying that he should get the start come playoff time. But it doesn't make a bit of sense to use October as that determination.

[auxlepli 17]

The Wings should do whatever it takes to win the Cup. If it means alternating goalies in the playoffs then they should do it. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried. I'm of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" opinion. Alternating goalies has worked in the regular season. So do it in the post season.

[Offsides 21]

The Wings should do whatever it takes to win the Cup. If it means alternating goalies in the playoffs then they should do it. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried. I'm of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" opinion. Alternating goalies has worked in the regular season. So do it in the post season.

I am with you. They seem to motivate/feed off each other. Just because it hasn't worked before doesn't mean it won't now. Why don't we do something dynamic if we have the tools to do so? No one has two goalies that are playing THIS good. Osgood, our .. um .. backup? is the best goalie in the league. Hasek, is Hasek, he looked bad at the beginning of the season, but is playing as good as Osgood right now. They are both vets who can handle it and have won Cups and are both playing out of their heads right now.

People have to have a certain thing in their mind of what will win a Cup when there's no set formula. This might not work, but neither might starting Ozzie, Hasek, Luongo, etc. Only one team wins. I say try it. Sometimes Babs listens

[OsGOD 3]

I am with you. They seem to motivate/feed off each other. Just because it hasn't worked before doesn't mean it won't now. Why don't we do something dynamic if we have the tools to do so? No one has two goalies that are playing THIS good. Osgood, our .. um .. backup? is the best goalie in the league. Hasek, is Hasek, he looked bad at the beginning of the season, but is playing as good as Osgood right now. They are both vets who can handle it and have won Cups and are both playing out of their heads right now.

People have to have a certain thing in their mind of what will win a Cup when there's no set formula. This might not work, but neither might starting Ozzie, Hasek, Luongo, etc. Only one team wins. I say try it. Sometimes Babs listens

Sure there is... win 16 games before you lose 4 in any given series. pretty much the cup winning formula right there!

Just like the Presidents trophy winning team can win the cup by winning only home games

Carry on

[vangvace 12]

Yup continue the rotation. It keeps them both fresh and active. It's working. It avoids the scapegoat/savior theme if only one starts and things go badly.

Besides I seem to remember people saying earlier this season that there isn't a backup, it's an 1A and 1B. That sure sounds like a tandem to me.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Why is that an unfortunate reality? If Dom plays really well the rest of the year, why shouldn't he start? He's clearly been the better goalie historically, and if he plays well for the last 85% of the season, it's pretty reasonable that he would get the nod in the playoffs. Even if Osgood has a career year.

It's an unfortunate reality for Ozzy and his fans. That he can still be playing great, even better than Dom, but not get the start. Which I think is fairly likely to happen.

Again, what does history have to do with it? Yes he won a Cup 5 years ago, but that's a very long time when you're talking about a 42 year old goaltender. So you've got a 35 year old goalie who's having a career year, and a 42 year old goalie who's getting his form back. To me it's not as clear as you make it sound, just because Hasek won in 02. A lot has happened since then.

And FTR a poor finish to the season? Legace didn't lose in regulation in his last 12 starts that year and had an 11-0-1 record heading into the post-season (and had just 2 starts with less than an 88 save percentage in that span). He lost just twice in regulation over his last 24 starts. It's not like he was playing badly heading into the playoffs. No, he didn't play well in the playoffs, but Osgood hadn't really shown anything that season to deserve the starting job.

True. But that's cherry picking the stats. Look at his save percentage over the second half of the season and it tells a different story.

My memory is that the second half of the season, Legace was not the goalie he was in the first half. He became very inconsistent. And for whatever reason, Babs announced he was the starter at the All Star break. Ozzy didn't have a great season, but he played better in the second half. Though I think he was injured come playoff time anyway.

It is fair. If the goalies are close, then you go with the one who has been there recently and who is arguably the best to play the game. If Osgood is clearly better, then I have no problem saying that he should get the start come playoff time. But it doesn't make a bit of sense to use October as that determination.

It's fair because it comes down to you liking Hasek more than Osgood. If Hasek was playing better than Ozzy, but didn't get the start, would you still think it's fair? Again, you say he's arguably the best to play the game, so Hasek should start. Honestly, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but if both goalies are playing well, and Ozzy is still playing at the level he has all season, you could argue it also make sense to start the goalie that's having the hottest season of his career. Who leads the league in GAA and SV %. Because night in and night out he's performed better.

Like I said, as I see it right now, Ozzy is playing great. Dom is playing very good, but still not quite at the same level. Of course I'll get bashed for nitpicking goals, but even in the last couple months, he's let in a few very un-Hasek like goals from low percentage areas. They haven't been game breakers and he rebounds well from it, but to me, he's still not the Dominator yet.

Really it's pointless. I don't want to waste time in a goalie debate any more than I already have. You and puckloo will always think Dom deserves the start, the Ozzy supporters will always think he deserves it. Right now I'd give it to Ozzy, but we've got half a season to play.

Edited January 8, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Offsides 21]

I would prefer Ozzie to be starter, but since I doubt that will happen, I will settle for a rotation. His record is almost spotless though. It's so frustrating.

[OsGOD 3]

I would prefer Ozzie to be starter, but since I doubt that will happen, I will settle for a rotation. His record is almost spotless though. It's so frustrating.

The problem is he spells his name O-S-G-O-O-D and not H-A-S-E-K or R-O-Y or L-U-O-N-G-O

the letters O,s,g,o,o,d are all silent so you never get to hear his name said at all

i.e. he is invisible to the NHL no matter leading or not... in fact the awards are by default given to the player which is right below him because osgood dne in the eyes of the hockey world... he isn't a Carey or Ward after all. he is a nobody

[puckloo39 5,686]

The problem is he spells his name O-S-G-O-O-D and not H-A-S-E-K or R-O-Y or L-U-O-N-G-O

the letters O,s,g,o,o,d are all silent so you never get to hear his name said at all

i.e. he is invisible to the NHL no matter leading or not... in fact the awards are by default given to the player which is right below him because osgood dne in the eyes of the hockey world... he isn't a Carey or Ward after all. he is a nobody

The next time someone complains about me and Packer or any other Hasek supporter "whining" about Dom not getting any love, I am going to cite this post. Good grief.

Ozzie's gotten nothing but props this season, and well deserved, of course. Hasek has turned his season around and still gets crap from people. He did last year, as well - it's never good enough, no matter what. Someone's going to carp and nitpick, and debase even a winning effort using some line of 'reasoning'. Of course, people used to do that to Ozzie as well, but not this year, if you're paying attention and are not just dwelling on perceived slights to Osgood based on past history.

I think it just comes down to who you like -- or who you hate, as is the case with some people where Dom's concerned. As Packer said, giving Ozzie credit shouldn't be a reason to dismiss Dom, or vice versa. The good thing for All-Ozzie-All-the-Time fans is that no one hates Ozzie, that I know of, anyway.

Dom got passed over for the ASG last season, when it was pretty obvious that he should be there, rather than Turco. Meh, no one here cared -- it was just Hasek who got snubbed. Certainly not me, BTW, as I didn't want him anywhere near it. That's not the point.

The point is, Dom "deserved" to go. Maybe Ozzie does too. I don't know who "deserves" to be the playoff goalie, since it's January. I would be happy with both. Honestly, if Ozzie was ASG first string goalie, got the Vezina, and was the #1/only goalie in the playoffs, I do believe some would still complain about that damned Hasek was hanging around, winning games.

edit: clarity

Edited January 8, 2008 by puckloo39

[dallas27 7]

Just look around. It might be a vocal minority, but in this thread alone someone said that if Hasek starts in the playoffs it'll just be because of his name (and not like...having a 1.47/.930 over the last month and change or anything like that...just his name). You've got people in pretty much every "goalie thread" saying that Dom is just stopping shots that anyone could save, but Ozzie is stealing games--but also that the team plays better when Osgood is in net, which seems to conflict. Weird. Then you've got someone who still has a "Hasek Haters" signature--though to his credit he did give Dom a little bit of props in this thread.

It will be because of his name. I really don't see either goalie cooling off anytime soon. SO one is named Osgood and the other is Hasek. What name do you think they will go with? EVEN if Osgood is playing better, which he is, they will still go with Hasek despite Osgood playing better because he's Hasek. It's certainly not a bad thing, but it's bs considering how Osgood has played [better] game in and game out.

You say all that matters is that who is playing better right now, yet you referred to the past in every paragraph past the one above.

Edited January 8, 2008 by dallas27

[Packer487 3]

Again, what does history have to do with it? Yes he won a Cup 5 years ago, but that's a very long time when you're talking about a 42 year old goaltender. So you've got a 35 year old goalie who's having a career year, and a 42 year old goalie who's getting his form back. To me it's not as clear as you make it sound, just because Hasek won in 02. A lot has happened since then.

He also had what? Like a .928 or something in the postseason last year? It's not like we're talking ancient history here. He won as many playoff series last year as Osgood has won since the Cup in 1998. If their play is even close, there's a reason Hasek should--and will--get the call.

True. But that's cherry picking the stats. Look at his save percentage over the second half of the season and it tells a different story.

My memory is that the second half of the season, Legace was not the goalie he was in the first half. He became very inconsistent. And for whatever reason, Babs announced he was the starter at the All Star break. Ozzy didn't have a great season, but he played better in the second half. Though I think he was injured come playoff time anyway.

For the whole season, Legace had a 2.19, .915 and was 37-8-3.

For the last 12 games, he was 11-0-1 with a 2.20 and a .919 save percentage. (March 9 to April 17)

For the last 24 games, he was 19-2-3 with a 2.20 and a .917 save percentage. (Jan 24 to April 17)

He did have one rough stretch, giving up 3, 5, 3, 5, 3, 4, 3 during Mid February to Mid March but rebounding to give up 17 over his last 9 starts heading into the post-season.

To compare:

For the whole season, Osgood was 20-6-5 with a 2.76 and an .897 save percentage.

From March 9 to April 17, he was 6-1-2 with a 2.72 goals against and a .903 save percentage. He gave up 6 in his last start, which skews things a little I suppose, but he gave up 2 or less in 4 of those starts, and 3 or more in 5.

From Jan 24 to April 17, we'd only be including 2 additional starts, a shutout win where he made 24 saves, and a game where he gave up 3 goals on 10 shots over two periods and got a no decision. So he'd have like a 2.60 and a .904 over that period.

I never understood the "start Osgood" talk back then. He hadn't played well for much of the season. Granted he had improved from God-awful to passable, but Legace was still playing much better hockey any way you look at it.

It's fair because it comes down to you liking Hasek more than Osgood. If Hasek was playing better than Ozzy, but didn't get the start, would you still think it's fair? Again, you say he's arguably the best to play the game, so Hasek should start. Honestly, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but if both goalies are playing well, and Ozzy is still playing at the level he has all season, you could argue it also make sense to start the goalie that's having the hottest season of his career. Who leads the league in GAA and SV %. Because night in and night out he's performed better.

If Osgood was the legendary goalie and the level of play was close, I'd probably understand if Hasek didn't get the nod. And I've already said that if Osgood is playing clearly at a higher level than Dom, to go ahead and start him. He's not at this point.

If Osgood leads the league in goals against and save percentage, but ignoring October, Dom meets or exceeds those numbers, then I don't much care what happened in October. It'd be a distant memory by the time the playoffs roll around. And since the end of November, Dom has been allowing less goals per start, and stopping just 4 out of every 1,000 pucks less than Osgood.

Like I said, as I see it right now, Ozzy is playing great. Dom is playing very good, but still not quite at the same level. Of course I'll get bashed for nitpicking goals, but even in the last couple months, he's let in a few very un-Hasek like goals from low percentage areas. They haven't been game breakers and he rebounds well from it, but to me, he's still not the Dominator yet.

Well you, sir, have some pretty darn high standards. If giving up less than a goal and a half per game and stopping 93 out of every 100 shots is only "very good" then I don't know what to tell ya. I can only remember one truly bad goal (that unscreened wrist shot from the blueline) since he got his mojo back.

Really it's pointless. I don't want to waste time in a goalie debate any more than I already have. You and puckloo will always think Dom deserves the start, the Ozzy supporters will always think he deserves it. Right now I'd give it to Ozzy, but we've got half a season to play.

And the last sentence really says it all. There's a lot of time left in the season. Plenty of time for Dom to slump again or Ozzie to cool off. Or one of them could get injured, since they've both had injury problems over the years. Who knows, this may even be answered for us....

[Packer487 3]

It will be because of his name. I really don't see either goalie cooling off anytime soon. SO one is named Osgood and the other is Hasek. What name do you think they will go with? EVEN if Osgood is playing better, which he is, they will still go with Hasek despite Osgood playing better because he's Hasek. It's certainly not a bad thing, but it's bs considering how Osgood has played [better] game in and game out.

So basically what you're saying is that if Hasek continues to play at the level he's playing at (1.47 goals against, .930 save percentage, 2 shutouts in the last 10 starts) for the rest of the season, he'd only be starting the playoffs because of his name? I'm simply speechless.

You say all that matters is that who is playing better right now, yet you referred to the past in every paragraph past the one above.

Let's see if I can come up with an analogy to make this a little easier to understand. Nick Lidstrom has been the best defenseman in the league for years. Say next year starts and he's -15 over the first 10 games or so and clearly not playing well. Maybe he's a little dinged up too. Then he comes back and is +20 over the next 10 games.

I'm saying "Hey, maybe those first ten games were a fluke. He's been the best for a long time. He's been nothing but great in his entire career and he's playing really well right now. Maybe we should give him a pass on the way this season started since I don't think it's an issue anymore."

You're saying "He's playing really well right now. I don't care how good he has been in the past. But he sucked for those ten games so he's still really not all that good and even if he plays great for the rest of the season, I'm still not forgetting those ten games."

When a guy has been outstanding for years, and years, and years, is arguably the best to ever play the game, and had a very solid season as recently as last year, it's really not all that hard to understand why I'm like "Hey, maybe those first ten games don't really matter so much. Especially when we're looking down the road at the playoffs."

[dallas27 7]

So basically what you're saying is that if Hasek continues to play at the level he's playing at (1.47 goals against, .930 save percentage, 2 shutouts in the last 10 starts) for the rest of the season, he'd only be starting the playoffs because of his name? I'm simply speechless.

Good God you both are impossible to talk to. What's Osgood's stats again? Even better than Hasek? Oh yea. They ARE. WHY THE HELL CAN'T YOU ADMIT THAT OSGOOD HAS BEEN BETTER FOR THE WHOLE SEASON? Are you that proud? Really? Are you? Everything points to Osgood playing better this season. Record. Stats. Everything. So yes. Hasek would be starting because his name is Hasek and everything that is associated with his name. Again, I wouldn't complain. I would just think it's bs that you have a goalie who, throughout the whole season has proved that he has been the better goalie, would be getting shafted because anything negative towards Hasek IS simply dismissed.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Good God you both are impossible to talk to. What's Osgood's stats again? Even better than Hasek? Oh yea. They ARE. WHY THE HELL CAN'T YOU ADMIT THAT OSGOOD HAS BEEN BETTER FOR THE WHOLE SEASON? Are you that proud? Really? Are you? Everything points to Osgood playing better this season. Record. Stats. Everything. So yes. Hasek would be starting because his name is Hasek and everything that is associated with his name. Again, I wouldn't complain. I would just think it's bs that you have a goalie who, throughout the whole season has proved that he has been the better goalie, would be getting shafted because anything negative towards Hasek IS simply dismissed.

Ozzie has only been better then first quarter of season. He and Hasek have been about the same level recently. It would be stupid to declare Ozzie automatically the starter in the playoffs in spring just because of what he did in fall.

[gcom007 1,465]

Skipping Hasek's October, he still isn't putting up as strong of numbers as Osgood. This is just factually wrong. He's not putting up bad numbers, but they're simply not as strong as Osgood's. Look at Osgood's record. Look at the GAA. Look at the SV%. Look at how many games Osgood's had where he's let in more than 2 goals against good and bad teams. There's no comparison. It doesn't make Hasek's numbers bad, but it does make them below Osgood's any way you shake it.

Furthermore, skipping stats, Osgood's still been the better goalie. Hasek's played more than well enough to win and turned in some excellent efforts but has also left in quite a few notable soft goals and had games where really the best you can say is that he played well enough to win. I ain't hatin', just saying...

Meanwhile, no one can really say that Osgood has had a single solitary bad game all year. You can't expect a goalie to be perfect, but Osgood has performed his duty about as flawlessly as can be reasonably expected. You simply can't argue with that. He can't really do anything better. The numbers and record substantiate this claim. Even when looking at his two losses you have one where he was coming back probably too early from being sick with the flu and another game where the team was completely outplayed and the tying goal to send it to OT and an eventual shootout loss shouldn't have even been allowed. Again, he's played as flawlessly as can be reasonably expected.

You absolutely, without a doubt cannot say that about Hasek nomatter how many months you skip over. Well, maybe if you skip over October-December and just count his last start you can say it. Again, I'm not saying he's played bad. He's played far better and quite well since shaking what has come to be known as his "slump," but he still has not performed at the same level as Osgood has all year any way you shake it.

So to the topic at hand? I could see a tandem through the first two rounds but after that someone should be the starter unless things hit the wall sooner or we go 8-0 maybe. But that's just the only way I could possibly see it happening. By that I mean, I don't think it's realistic. If the season ends today, skipping bias you have Osgood starting but unfortunately, that's not realistic so Hasek would start. Yes, his name matters. Get over it. At this point, I don't think either one would hurt or help us more than the other as in most nights they play well enough to win and what tends to make us or break us in the playoffs always tends to be our skaters. We've had perfect playoff goaltending and we still lost early when our skaters didn't do anything else.

[Packer487 3]

Good God you both are impossible to talk to. What's Osgood's stats again? Even better than Hasek? Oh yea. They ARE. WHY THE HELL CAN'T YOU ADMIT THAT OSGOOD HAS BEEN BETTER FOR THE WHOLE SEASON? Are you that proud? Really? Are you?

This was an exact quote from me in this thread not even 24 hours ago:

"[Osgood's numbers don't] do anything for me? Go back and look at the adjectives I've used to describe Osgood in this thread alone. I said even said he belongs in the All-Star game.

Hasek hasn't been as good as Osgood this season. But over the last month and a half, he has been."

I don't really know what you want me to say. I've said it time and time again: For the season as a whole, Osgood has been better than Hasek. For the season as a whole, Osgood has been outstanding. For the last month and a half, Dom has been every bit as good.

Do you understand that? Do you? Do you? Do you? Do you do you do you? Huh? Yes? No? Maybe? Possibly? Only on Wednesdays? Should I say it slower? Huh? Yes? Perhaps?

Everything points to Osgood playing better this season. Record. Stats. Everything. So yes. Hasek would be starting because his name is Hasek and everything that is associated with his name. Again, I wouldn't complain. I would just think it's bs that you have a goalie who, throughout the whole season has proved that he has been the better goalie, would be getting shafted because anything negative towards Hasek IS simply dismissed.

You said yourself that you don't see either goalie cooling off. So it's really your position that if Dom keeps this up for the rest of the regular season (Probably another 20 starts or so) and ends up posting a 29-8-4 record with a 1.86 goals against, and a .913 save percentage (but like 24-3-3, 1.47/.930 over the last 3/4 of the season) that he really wouldn't have any business starting in the playoffs, and that he'd only be given that job because of his name?

That makes about as much sense as saying that come April, Babcock should be like "Dom, you've given up .3 goals per game less than Ozzie over the last five and a half months, but you sucked in October, so take a seat buddy."

Skipping Hasek's October, he still isn't putting up as strong of numbers as Osgood. This is just factually wrong. He's not putting up bad numbers, but they're simply not as strong as Osgood's. Look at Osgood's record. Look at the GAA. Look at the SV%. Look at how many games Osgood's had where he's let in more than 2 goals against good and bad teams. There's no comparison. It doesn't make Hasek's numbers bad, but it does make them below Osgood's any way you shake it.

He's putting up as good, if not better, numbers since he "got his game back" after those two starts that had a lot of people wanting to run him out of the city. I've posted the numbers in this thread. It's not factually wrong.

[OsGOD 3]

The point is, Dom "deserved" to go. Maybe Ozzie does too. I don't know who "deserves" to be the playoff goalie, since it's January. I would be happy with both.

I would have to say the League leader would deserve to start for any team in the entire NHL in the playoffs... but i just look at league leading being the the best. This isn't a freak accident or like a WOW ozzie is player of the week... His league leading stats has been going on for a few months now....

The #1 deserves to play... if not its just silly. Lets call up Howard and let him start if that is the case... if leading stats don't matter.

But who really cares... none of this goalie talk even matters if we don't get Sergei back at the deadline.... No Sergei = No Cup.... ye hath been cursed!

Edited January 8, 2008 by OsGOD

[HenryMalredo 2]

I would have to say the League leader would deserve to start for any team in the entire NHL in the playoffs... but i just look at league leading being the the best. This isn't a freak accident or like a WOW ozzie is player of the week... His league leading stats has been going on for a few months now....

The #1 deserves to play... if not its just silly. Lets call up Howard and let him start if that is the case... if leading stats don't matter.

But who really cares... none of this goalie talk even matters if we don't get Sergei back at the deadline.... No Sergei = No Cup.... ye hath been cursed!

So in the hypothetical situation that Osgood slips quite a bit near the end of the season, but still has good stats due to his dominance at the beginning of the year, you would think that he should still start in the playoffs since he had a good start to the season?

[dallas27 7]

This was an exact quote from me in this thread not even 24 hours ago:

"[Osgood's numbers don't] do anything for me? Go back and look at the adjectives I've used to describe Osgood in this thread alone. I said even said he belongs in the All-Star game.

Hasek hasn't been as good as Osgood this season. But over the last month and a half, he has been."

I don't really know what you want me to say. I've said it time and time again: For the season as a whole, Osgood has been better than Hasek. For the season as a whole, Osgood has been outstanding. For the last month and a half, Dom has been every bit as good.

Do you understand that? Do you? Do you? Do you? Do you do you do you? Huh? Yes? No? Maybe? Possibly? Only on Wednesdays? Should I say it slower? Huh? Yes? Perhaps?

I'm wondering why it doesn't surprise me that you go to U of M. But stats still indicate that Osgood has been better.

You said yourself that you don't see either goalie cooling off. So it's really your position that if Dom keeps this up for the rest of the regular season (Probably another 20 starts or so) and ends up posting a 29-8-4 record with a 1.86 goals against, and a .913 save percentage (but like 24-3-3, 1.47/.930 over the last 3/4 of the season) that he really wouldn't have any business starting in the playoffs, and that he'd only be given that job because of his name?

And two can play that game. If Osgood keeps up his performance he has played better than Hasek the whole season. And his stats would be marginally better most likely. So what then? I know where you stand. Even though Osgood would have better stats than Hasek, Hasek would have somewhat similar stats (dismissing October and November (which he was horrific) and all his bad starts, obviously, so really it's like 1/2) you would want him to start simply because you like him better. I have no problem with Dom starting. He's playing much better in the last month. I just feel that Osgood has been the more consistent, better goaltender, who happens to lead the league in GAA and SV% and he's done it the whole season. So he should get the nod.

That makes about as much sense as saying that come April, Babcock should be like "Dom, you've given up .3 goals per game less than Ozzie over the last five and a half months, but you sucked in October, so take a seat buddy."

Don't look at the GAA, look at the SV%. On a team like Detroit GAA is going to be padded.

Edited January 9, 2008 by dallas27

[IceMunkee 15]

I am in favor of continuing the tandem through the playoff's if both goalies are still dominating. What is sad is that we cannot just realize that we may have the best goaltending tandem in history. No I would hate to say the word playoff's in my post becuase god knows as soon as I do that the wings will lose every game and not ever make the playoff's cuase my typed words effect the game like that.

[imisssergei 0]

Wow, everyone, RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First, to answer the thread question: No, rotating goalies in the playoffs never works. Show me one team that won the Cup with two goaltenders getting equal play (barring and injuries)? You can't. It's never happened. You have to go with one guy. If he fails, make a switch.

Now for the fun stuff...

As much as I hate Hasek (which is A s*** TON) I think he will get the nod in the playoffs. I'd rather see Ozzie in net, he is having an out of the world season. You can throw out all the stats in the world you want to. You can skew them anyway you want to give the goalie of your choice the better showing. It doesn't matter. Just for reference, per TSN, here are the projected stats for each goalie:

Hasek: GP 40 W 25 L 11 T 4 MIN 2374.62 GA 87 SA 840 SO 4 GAA% 2.21 SA% .896

Osgood: GP 44 W 36 L 4 T 2 MIN 2589.5 GA 73 SA 1064 SO 4 GAA% 1.68 SA% .932

IMHO, if things with both goalies stay status quo, I think Babs needs to start Ozzie. He would have proven over the course of the season to be the better goalie, NOW. I don't care what Hasek did in 2000, or in October. I don't care if Ozzie hasn't won a playoff series since 1903. The better goalie should start. Now, if for some reason Ozzie starts playing awful for a 5+ game stretch, then I'd be fine with Hasek starting. Why 5+ games? I think with the way Ozzie is playing, you need to give him a few games to pull back into shape, just like Dom got 3 months to get back into shape, it's only fair.

However, the real reason I think Ozzie should start, is that he fits better into the style of play that the Wings use. We all know the Wings play a puck possesion style. They don't allow many shots, about 23 per game. Dom is the type of goaltender that needs to have a lot of action to be involved, and preform well. If he doesn't see a lot of shots, he feels the need to play the puck. We've all seen Dom wander. Don't tell me you aren't holding your breath hoping he doesn't screw it up! WE ALL ARE!! Now, regardless if you are going to be honest about how you feel when Dom plays the puck, there is no denying, it's an adventure every time he touches it. In the playoffs, I don't want that kind of an adventure. But I also want my goalie to be in the game.

With the way Ozzie is playing, I really don't think Babs can't pass over him in the playoffs, if things stay status quo. It's like having a world class chef go grocery shopping with you, help you prepare a meal, but when it comes time to eat the meal, asking him to sit and watch. It just wouldn't be right.

[imisssergei 0]

Don't look at the GAA, look at the SV%. On a team like Detroit GAA is going to be padded.

I think you are confused about how goaltending stats are calculated my friend.

GAA is calculated by taking the number of goals allowed per 60 minutes played, rounded to two decimal points. To get the number, multiply the total number of goals allowed by 60 and divide by the total number of minutes played.

If anything, the SV% would be skewed. For reference, SV% is calculated by taking the number saves made divided by the total number of shots on goal, expressed in three decimal places.

So what was that about U of M math again?

Edited January 9, 2008 by imisssergei

[dallas27 7]

I think you are confused about how goaltending stats are calculated my friend.

GAA is calculated by taking the number of goals allowed per 60 minutes played, rounded to two decimal points. To get the number, multiply the total number of goals allowed by 60 and divide by the total number of minutes played.

If anything, the SV% would be skewed. For reference, SV% is calculated by taking the number saves made divided by the total number of shots on goal, expressed in three decimal places.

So what was that about U of M math again?

One can maintain a respectable GAA while having a sub .900 SV% i.e. Dominik Hasek or Turco because they face so few shots.

Last time I heard. Anything hovering around 2 or 2.5 is a respectable number for GAA, especially in the "new" NHL. Anything under .900 for SV%. Ehhhhhhhh, not quite. I would be willing to bet that doesn't quite cut it

So I'm sorta inclined to look at the percentage of shots a goalie stops rather than the average amount of goals he lets in.

Where you were trying to go with that, I dunno