Wings Goaltending

[IceMunkee 15]

would this be the same john ferguson jr they just s***-canned? well if he says so it must be true ...

I did not know that!!! LOL!!! Officially sixer, ur a tool.

[sixer 37]

Take it for what it is, that's all.

[sixer 37]

One last thing I forgot to mention is that at the start of the season Ozzie was a backup and was considered to be a good goalie. He's never been considered to be one of the elite goalies in the NHL.

In front a good team ozzie is a good goalie, but these aweseome first half stats and all-star appearance are getting to everyone's heads. His awesome stats were as result of one of the best seasons in Redwings history. And, because he only had two play every second game and face minimal shots with low quality scoring chances, he was well rested and no doubt that's why his stats are so good. That's why at the break it was like wow, Ozzie is going to the all star game.

Bowman never wanted to rely on Ozzie and he should never play more then 40-50 games in a year. He's average and will never be more.

[Barrie 900]

I said the same thing. Hasek is more important to this team than LGW fans want to admit, and so are Raffi and Kronner.

The real issue is not the goaltending -- it's the lack of scoring that concerns me more.

Right.

Also, the team as a whole hasn't been playing well. If we were outshooting teams 35-19, but losing 4-3, then yes, this is a goaltending problem, but that's not been happening. The last 5 games (I've seen 3 of them), we've been getting pushed around and are having problems getting to the front of the net, but Ozzie's been getting blamed.

However, this is nothing new, we're Red Wings fans, and we blame the goaltending first. It goes back to the early 90's to Chelevdae, then Essena, Osgood, Vernon, Osgood again, Legace, CuJo, Hasek, and back again on Osgood.

When we won our Stanley Cups, the team was playing outstanding hockey. If you look around the League, the teams that depend just on their Goaltening (Buffalo in the late 90's, Toronto 99-04, Flames in 04, Oilers in 06, etc), NEVER win a Championship. Roy and Brodeur are Champions because they had outstanding teams in front of them. When they lost, it was their team that wasn't playing well.

[Guest Crymson]

I'll try not to mention Top Notch Goalie too often, but serioulsy, I'm very suprised with the lack of concern over our goaltending for the upcoming playoffs.

Forget regular season, you should all know that, make the playoffs with home ice and your in the best possible position you can be, there are no byes in the NHL.

Is no one worried that our top goalie, Hasek, is injury prone and might not be able to play the entire playoffs and given that we don't have a serious top notch goalie that can bring us the cup. You need consistent top goaltending and someone that can make a few game winning saves!

Ozzie is a backup and his days are over. Without a good performance from our offense and defense he can't win us games. He is and never will be a top notch goalie despite what many of you think. He's always had a top team in front of him outplaying the opposing team and limiting the number of good chances on him. He was shown at the all-star game that he can't compete with the big boys, not too mention he can't control rebounds.

We need to trade Ozzie at his bargain salary, while many still think that, and get someone like Toskala who the leafs are willing to deal. This would solidify our Stanley Cup Run without a doubt!!! Other Top Notch Goalies would be available for Osgood plus possible combination of prospects/picks.

Howard would be great as a backup until he's ready later down the road to take over number 1, but in 2008-2009 we cannot play with Osgood as a Starter, mark my roads.

If Hasek goes down in the playoffs, were done, even if we pickup Hossa or Sundin and another D Man.

Make it happen Kenny!!!

Did you just bump this thread from last season?

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

I've said this all season long, and I'll say it again.

The Wings won't win the Cup with the tandem of Osgood and Hasek.

HAHA.

Riight. Hasek & Ozzie suck. Worst tandem in the league. What are they? 1&2 in the league? Poor poor Wings. They are getting nowhere with those two washed up losers.

I mean seriously, do some of you SEE or read over the things you post? They are so outrageous and ridiculous. I would love to post about a page or more on this topic, but I decided against it because believe me it wouldn't be pretty at all.

Edited February 16, 2008 by HockeyCrazy3033

[MonkeyGoalie 14]

I've said this all season long, and I'll say it again.

The Wings won't win the Cup with the tandem of Osgood and Hasek.

Thanks for the info Miss Cleo

[sixer 37]

One last thing I forgot to mention is that at the start of the season Ozzie was a backup and was considered to be a good goalie. He's never been considered to be one of the elite goalies in the NHL.

In front a good team ozzie is a good goalie, but these aweseome first half stats and all-star appearance are getting to everyone's heads. His awesome stats were as result of one of the best seasons in Redwings history. And, because he only had two play every second game and face minimal shots with low quality scoring chances, he was well rested and no doubt that's why his stats are so good. That's why at the break it was like wow, Ozzie is going to the all star game.

Bowman never wanted to rely on Ozzie and he should never play more then 40-50 games in a year. He's average and will never be more.

Which point do you disagree with Crymson?

[imisssergei 0]

WOW!!!! Your as close minded and short sighted as the other guy. How can you possibly say that Hasek has not stolen games for us. It is clear you barely watch the games. Wow. He leads the F'n league in GAA!!!

Call it what you want to call it, but the Wings aren't strong enough to win the Cup with either Hasek or Osgood.

And no, Hasek has not stolen a game this season. How does a goaltenders GAA translate in any manner to stealing games?

Just so we are clear, my definition of stealing a game is the Wings winning a game they had no chance of being in. Example, if the Wings would have beaten the Jackets 4-3 instead of losing 5-1, Osgood would have stolen that game.

The Wings have a great regular season team. They have, at best, a mediocre playoff team.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I've said this all season long, and I'll say it again.

The Wings won't win the Cup with the tandem of Osgood and Hasek.

And you know this how?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The Wings can win the cup with Hasek, the Wings will not win this year if Hasek gets injured in the playoffs and Average Ozzie goes in Net. Period.

ps. Osgood has played horrible over the past 10 games, being pulled four times and an ERA of over 4.00 and save % below 850. This isn't a one or two game thing.

The Key point everyone is missing is Osgood doesn't steal games for us. Our offense and defence do. HE IS AVERAGE.

If we play poorly, average ozzie is exposed. The difference with Vokoun, Toskala, and so forth is they steal games where the leafs play poorly. Look at last Saturday against Detroit, text book example! Most of the game was in the Leafs end, he stole the game from Detroit!

You clearly weren't around here for the beginning of the season.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Take it for what it is, that's all.

We want you to stop posting in this thread.

Take it for what it is, that's all.

[lets go pavel 2]

The Wings have a great regular season team. They have, at best, a mediocre playoff team.

and you're basing this on ... what? it's great to say things over and over, but some explanation as to how you're arriving at your psychic premonitions would make for much better conversation ...

[imisssergei 0]

and you're basing this on ... what? it's great to say things over and over, but some explanation as to how you're arriving at your psychic premonitions would make for much better conversation ...

The regular season part needs no explanation. We have all seen them dominate.

But what does it take to succeed in the playoffs?

Scoring from all 4 lines, 4 solid defensive lines, at least 1 great pair and 2 pretty good pair of dmen, and stellar goaltending.

The Wings have 4 solid defensive lines. They have 1 great d pairing, 2 average pairings. At best, they have above average goalies.

They do not have secondary scoring. It's the most glaring hole on the team. No Rex, Flip, Sammy, Franzen, and Cleary aren't cutting it. Outside of ZHD, Cleary (40) is the only forward with more than 35 points.

On defense, outside of Lidstrom and Raffy, no dman has more than 25 points. Even further, Kronwall has 25 points, past him, the next best is Lebda with 12. In addition, the Wings don't have a true 'tough' dman on the squad. Not a single player on the roster strikes any sense of fear into opponents.

Finally, it's my opinion, so that's all that really matters. But can you justify why you think they will win the Cup?

[imisssergei 0]

And you know this how?

The same way I knew Kronwall would get injured this season.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Osgood is still traumatized from his experiences during All-star weekend.

[Guest Canadian Wings]

Goaltending is fine........ we need d!

uhhh no it's not.

lets see with the possibility of hasek injured

osgood against giguere in a series

osgood against nabokov in a series

osgood against turco in a series

osgood against lugongo in a series

well, u get my drift. it'll be 06' all over again!

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'll try not to mention Top Notch Goalie too often, but serioulsy, I'm very suprised with the lack of concern over our goaltending for the upcoming playoffs.

Forget regular season, you should all know that, make the playoffs with home ice and your in the best possible position you can be, there are no byes in the NHL.

Is no one worried that our top goalie, Hasek, is injury prone and might not be able to play the entire playoffs and given that we don't have a serious top notch goalie that can bring us the cup. You need consistent top goaltending and someone that can make a few game winning saves!

Ozzie is a backup and his days are over. Without a good performance from our offense and defense he can't win us games. He is and never will be a top notch goalie despite what many of you think. He's always had a top team in front of him outplaying the opposing team and limiting the number of good chances on him. He was shown at the all-star game that he can't compete with the big boys, not too mention he can't control rebounds.

We need to trade Ozzie at his bargain salary, while many still think that, and get someone like Toskala who the leafs are willing to deal. This would solidify our Stanley Cup Run without a doubt!!! Other Top Notch Goalies would be available for Osgood plus possible combination of prospects/picks.

Howard would be great as a backup until he's ready later down the road to take over number 1, but in 2008-2009 we cannot play with Osgood as a Starter, mark my roads.

If Hasek goes down in the playoffs, were done, even if we pickup Hossa or Sundin and another D Man.

Make it happen Kenny!!!

LMAO at Vesa Toskala. This is the funniest, yet saddest post I have ever read.

I would call you an idiot, but your post speaks for itself.

[Izzy24 44]

Top Notch Goalie

[lets go pavel 2]

The regular season part needs no explanation. We have all seen them dominate.

But what does it take to succeed in the playoffs?

Scoring from all 4 lines, 4 solid defensive lines, at least 1 great pair and 2 pretty good pair of dmen, and stellar goaltending.

The Wings have 4 solid defensive lines. They have 1 great d pairing, 2 average pairings. At best, they have above average goalies.

They do not have secondary scoring. It's the most glaring hole on the team. No Rex, Flip, Sammy, Franzen, and Cleary aren't cutting it. Outside of ZHD, Cleary (40) is the only forward with more than 35 points.

On defense, outside of Lidstrom and Raffy, no dman has more than 25 points. Even further, Kronwall has 25 points, past him, the next best is Lebda with 12. In addition, the Wings don't have a true 'tough' dman on the squad. Not a single player on the roster strikes any sense of fear into opponents.

Finally, it's my opinion, so that's all that really matters. But can you justify why you think they will win the Cup?

i think they have as good a shot as anyone, i certainly wouldn't count them out ... i do think hasek/ozzie are capable of getting us there, and that i guess is just a matter of opinion, it can't really be proven one way or the other ...

as for secondary scoring, we all agree we need more, but here's the interesting thing - every team does ... i just compared the 8 western conference playoff teams if the season ended today ... we have 10 players with 20+ points, only nashville and colorado are better with 11 ... we have 8 players with 30+ points, the next closest are minnesota and nashville with 6 ... we have 5 players with 40+ points, only calgary can match that ... we have as much if not more secondary scoring than anyone in the west ...

as for our defensemen scoring, only 3 of those same 8 "playoff" teams teams have 3 d-men with 20+ points: detroit (25, 46, 57), anaheim (20, 28, 39), and nashville (22, 23, 32) ... the rest have 2, except san jose with 1 ... obviously anaheim's #s don't take into account niedermayer, but even so it would be hard to say that we don't have stellar scoring from the blueline ...

i agree that we could use some bigger physical players, i don't think anyone would disagree, but i wouldn't say we can't win the cup without it ... i think there's a decent chance that will be addressed at the deadline ... holland tried last year with bert, we'll see what there is this year ... i think there's also a decent chance that mccarty will be back up before long - we'll have to see what he can bring, but he's obviously in grand rapids so the organization can see what he's got left, and from the sounds of it he's doing pretty well ...

so in summary i think we have the scoring, defense, goaltending, experience from last year, veteran presence, speed, youth, heart ... add maybe one more goal scorer and physical depth defenseman and i think we have what it takes ... we've at least got as good of a shot as anyone else ...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The same way I knew Kronwall would get injured this season.

So if you already know that the Wings cannot win the Cup with Hasek and/or Osgood, and I think it's safe to say they will be the goaltenders for the playoffs, why are you even wasting time to watch this season then since it will already end in disappointment for you I am assuming?

Edited February 17, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Hasek will be our playoff goalie and I would not have it any other way.

[wings_fanatic 677]

What the hell are you all worried about... really? Dom is fine, he has not been "injury prone" at all this season... This hip thing is just precautionary... Ken Holland literally said Dom would play right now if it was playoffs... so its not bad at all... they just don't want to risk anything. So, quit worrying, we will have the best goalie in the league playing for us come playoffs, and Friday against Calgary, Dominik Hasek. AND... Dom plays even better in playoffs... lets not forget he was the 2nd best goalie in the playoffs last year... so wings will be fine... quit worring...

[imisssergei 0]

i think they have as good a shot as anyone, i certainly wouldn't count them out ... i do think hasek/ozzie are capable of getting us there, and that i guess is just a matter of opinion, it can't really be proven one way or the other ...

as for secondary scoring, we all agree we need more, but here's the interesting thing - every team does ... i just compared the 8 western conference playoff teams if the season ended today ... we have 10 players with 20+ points, only nashville and colorado are better with 11 ... we have 8 players with 30+ points, the next closest are minnesota and nashville with 6 ... we have 5 players with 40+ points, only calgary can match that ... we have as much if not more secondary scoring than anyone in the west ...

as for our defensemen scoring, only 3 of those same 8 "playoff" teams teams have 3 d-men with 20+ points: detroit (25, 46, 57), anaheim (20, 28, 39), and nashville (22, 23, 32) ... the rest have 2, except san jose with 1 ... obviously anaheim's #s don't take into account niedermayer, but even so it would be hard to say that we don't have stellar scoring from the blueline ...

i agree that we could use some bigger physical players, i don't think anyone would disagree, but i wouldn't say we can't win the cup without it ... i think there's a decent chance that will be addressed at the deadline ... holland tried last year with bert, we'll see what there is this year ... i think there's also a decent chance that mccarty will be back up before long - we'll have to see what he can bring, but he's obviously in grand rapids so the organization can see what he's got left, and from the sounds of it he's doing pretty well ...

so in summary i think we have the scoring, defense, goaltending, experience from last year, veteran presence, speed, youth, heart ... add maybe one more goal scorer and physical depth defenseman and i think we have what it takes ... we've at least got as good of a shot as anyone else ...

I didn't say anything detrimental about the defensive scoring. I merely wanted to bring some light to it. Did I purposefully imply that it could be better? Yes, but I feel it could, and should be improved with the acquisition of a Brent Sopel type player. A move such as this would also help the physcial side of things. Not that Sopel is an intimidating force, but he is moreso than Lilja.

If you want to make a good comparison as to how good this team is, let's look at last years team.

Our are Matty, Bert, Calder, Markov and Lang.

In are Raffy, Downie, coupled with Rex and Flip playing bigger roles.

Offensively, the Wings lost Lang and his 19 goals and 33 assists, and Markov's physical presence. Bert and Calder are moot for this since a) they were rentals, and b) I said so.

The Wings essentially replaced Lang with Flip. He won't come near Lang's numbers. On the surface, Rex's numbers look bigger than last years. But if you take into account that he had played the majority of the season with Flip, who is stepping it up, and also at times with Datsyuk or Hank, you get a better look at why they aren't much better. Currently Rex has 34 points, last year he managed only 25. But last year he had 15 goals, thus far he has 11. He might hit 15.

On the blueline, I think most would agree offensively Matty and Raffy are a wash. I also think most people would agree that Matty is more physical, while Raffy is more defensively. This means that the Wings got slightly better defensively, but slightly less physical with these two. Losing Markov the Wings lost their only true physical dman. Couple that with the physicality lost with Matty and the Wings have a pretty big hole in the way of physical play. Again, I'm not saying the Wings need a big bruiser back there, someone like Sopel would fit good.

In net the Wings have and older version of what they had last year.

All in all, the Wings are weaker this year than last. So what makes you feel so strongly about them winning the Cup this year?

[imisssergei 0]

So if you already know that the Wings cannot win the Cup with Hasek and/or Osgood, and I think it's safe to say they will be the goaltenders for the playoffs, why are you even wasting time to watch this season then since it will already end in disappointment for you I am assuming?

The same reason I watched 3 games yesterday, and 3 more tonight. The same reason I grab my gear and goto the rink at 11:40pm for pickup. The same reason I've watched the Wings in the 80's.

I. Love. Hockey.

EDIT: Also, like I said, barring any big deals, they won't win the Cup with Osgood and Hasek in net. Neither guy is good enough to make up for the shortcomings of this team.

Edited February 17, 2008 by imisssergei