NHL GM's Declare War on Goalies

[Guest Crymson]

Thank goodness. Has anyone ever noticed that goalies like Brodeur, Hasek and Osgood thrive on skill, whereas goalies like Giguere and (lately) Legace thrive on equipment? It's insulting.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

If they make the nets bigger, all records after that decision is made need to have an asterisk. Esposito, Howe, Lafleur, Gretzky, and Lemieux all shot at a 4x6 goal with right angles and the vertical and horizontal sides to the goal were parallel to each other.

I do not want bigger goals or a goal with a curved crossbar. Smaller pads is what is needed.

[Dabura 12,232]

Modifing tools of one person while not modifiying others seems rather, "fixing" the outcomes of the games.

You're over-complicating the issue.

Goalies are taking liberties with their equipment. It's ridiculous. Skaters are, for the most part, not taking liberties with their equipment. That's not ridiculous.

The ridiculous party is being put under the microscope. Why? Because it's the ridiculous party, not the sensible one.

[Hank 0]

been a goalie my whole life...and it hurts that i have to agree with the equipment getting smaller.

its now up to the equipment companies to step up and protect these guys while reducing size.

I agree. But I have a friend that works for Brian's and he said it would be financial suicide to do it on their own.

He said every goalie in the NHL would ban their equipment if they proved that they could make equipment half as big but just as safe.

Once the NHL sets the standard, the manufacturers will begin making it.

[Hank 0]

You really think that all the goal scoring in the 80's would have been possible against the pads players deal with today? I think you put Gretzky against Giggy, and there's no broken records. Hell, Crosby and Ovechkin are the best out there today, and arguably bigger, faster, better than Gretzky was, and they aren't really even coming close to the rate of scoring Gretzky did.

Gretzky wouldn't have even come close to 200 points in today's NHL. He'd be a 120 point player at the very best. And certainly not a 92 goal scorer.

It's a wonder that players like Ovechkin or Kovalchuk can even get close to 60 goals.

I don't know why people think making the tenders smaller will result in 10-9 games. It will be closer to what the golden era of hockey was, around 7 gpg. Defenses will still be stifling, coaches will still refuse to send in more than 2 forecheckers, and players will collapse on their goalies even more.

But at least now guys won't see zero net when they're in the slot. It might even make some players shoot the puck when in that situation instead of passing like they do now.

[Guest Crymson]

We don't need this. Hockey has enough offense. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken.

At this point, as concerns skaters vs goalies, it's a toss-up on any given night whether one will be competing against skill in net or big pads in net. It's not right.

[Guest Crymson]

Gretzky wouldn't have even come close to 200 points in today's NHL. He'd be a 120 point player at the very best. And certainly not a 92 goal scorer.

It's a wonder that players like Ovechkin or Kovalchuk can even get close to 60 goals.

I don't know why people think making the tenders smaller will result in 10-9 games. It will be closer to what the golden era of hockey was, around 7 gpg. Defenses will still be stifling, coaches will still refuse to send in more than 2 forecheckers, and players will collapse on their goalies even more.

But at least now guys won't see zero net when they're in the slot. It might even make some players shoot the puck when in that situation instead of passing like they do now.

Remember that Hasek was the first goalie to really consistently average well over a .900 SV%. This was before the time of big pads. Only when pads got huge did this sort of SV% become relatively normal. Hasek did it with skill; Roy and those who came after it did it with the help of a lot of net-blocking mass.

[Hank 0]

At this point, as concerns skaters vs goalies, it's a toss-up on any given night whether one will be competing against skill in net or big pads in net. It's not right.

Especially when a team earns an odd man rush or quality scoring chance and you see on the replay how a part of the goalies inflated padding stopped the puck without the goalie even moving.

I'm actually surprised at how goalies rage against the idea of smaller gear. I'm not a goalie but I want to see a return of the art of goaltending - where athleticism and skill are reasons for great saves, not sofa cushions under the jersey.

There was a time when I loved watching saves on replays but some of the saves that make the top 10 these days are ridiculous. Does anyone remember Pierre McGuire going bonkers over some stops by Giggy in last years conference finals? Every save he went nuts over was a belly pad save. When's the last time anyone here saw Giggy make a sprawling kick or glove save? It doesn't happen because he's not quick or skilled enough to do them. Instead we have analysts going bananas over a routine save that sunk into their ginormous belly pads.

P.S. Phil Esposito said that his brother Tony is able to put one of his old trappers entirely in the mit of a new glove. Why did the gloves have to get bigger? I don't think goalies hands got that much bigger from 40 years ago.

[Vilmer 0]

It's about time!

[Hank 0]

Remember that Hasek was the first goalie to really consistently average well over a .900 SV%. This was before the time of big pads. Only when pads got huge did this sort of SV% become relatively normal. Hasek did it with skill; Roy and those who came after it did it with the help of a lot of net-blocking mass.

That's what I'm talking about in regards to the return of the Art of Goaltending. Watching Hasek was really a treat. He was so athletic and acrobatic that he was one of only a few goalies that was worth the price of admission.

With slimmer, smaller equipment, the fan is going to be treated to goalies that are truly athletic.

I really do believe that if this new standard is enforced we'll see what happened to Jason Allison happen to Giguere. He simply has no real athletic ability to perform well with fair equipment.

Luongo's gear is horrible too, but the scary thing about him is he has skill to boot. You know he's still going to be great even with slimmed down stuff.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Hank

[The_Cub 0]

I just want a guy flying down the wing shooting from the faceoff dot have a slight chance scoring.

Giguere while he does look like a blob on the ice is positionally a very good goalie.

Edited February 20, 2008 by The_Cub

[eva unit zero 271]

Remember that Hasek was the first goalie to really consistently average well over a .900 SV%. This was before the time of big pads. Only when pads got huge did this sort of SV% become relatively normal. Hasek did it with skill; Roy and those who came after it did it with the help of a lot of net-blocking mass.

Just so you know, Chris Osgood has been sub-.900 exactly twice in his career. He's also never used oversized gear; the gear he uses now is the same size as his gear from his rookie season.

Also, Roy was over .900 a few times before Hasek won a Vezina.

That said, I have maintained for years that most goalies nowadays are good enough to have been top-ten netminders had they played in the 80s. The equipment is only part of it.

[eva unit zero 271]

I really do believe that if this new standard is enforced we'll see what happened to Jason Allison happen to Giguere. He simply has no real athletic ability to perform well with fair equipment.

Jason Allison is out of the league because he is slow, not because he can't play. Assuming he's done, he might be the only guy in league history whose last season was close to a point per game, and he actively pursued a contract the next year with no takers.

[Duck Guy 86]

I just want a guy flying down the wing shooting from the faceoff dot have a slight chance scoring.

Giguere while he does look like a blob on the ice is positionally a very good goalie.

True. Everyone seems to think it is his equipment and ONLY his equipment that makes him a good goalie. You don't see him flip around alot not because of him being slow or that his gear is "big" it is because he is rarely out of position. And he is on a team with a ridiculous amount of skill on D. If you see a goalie flipping it usually means that the goalie was not in a great position to start out with and made a mistake and is trying to recover... no?. I find it hard to believe that giggys gear got him a cup and a conn smyth (when his team didn't even win the cup). I think he is easy to target because of what team he plays for. And if the goalie equipment gets reduced the amount of injuries will increase even if that means 1 more goalie will get injured that is 1 too many.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Duck Guy

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

But with the improved technology in the new wave of sticks, while the techniques are the same... the outcome is a lot different. The philosophy is the same... the Tools used are vastly different (new and improved so to speak)

Same can be said about goalies... they can still kick their legs out to make saves... thats still the exact same... but the tools are different.

Goalie equipment has been vastly improved since the old days. I can remember an old leather pair of pads that I had that would get so waterlogged by the end of a game that I could barely move my legs.

If you are going to make the skaters go back to old equipment then the goalies should have to wear old pads as well- oh and no helmet, just the Jason mask.

All equipment has improved, often so far that you can get superior protection with smaller size.

In fact, since the goalie equipment technology has improved so much it should have been getting smaller, not larger.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, harold...but then I looked at Giguere's size as compared to Brodeur, who has much smaller pads.

Giguere: 6'1", 200lbs.

Brodeur: 6'2", 215lbs.

Marty's actually bigger than Giguere and uses significantly smaller pads. With the Brodeur factor in play, I don't think Giguere can justify that max-size equipment.

I almost fell out of my chair seeing that. I would LOVE to see Giguere wearing Marty's pads and see what happens to his stats.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Hockeytown0001

[Hank 0]

I almost fell out of my chair seeing that. I would LOVE to see Giguere wearing Marty's pads and see what happens to his stats.

Can you say ECHL?

In fact, since the goalie equipment technology has improved so much it should have been getting smaller, not larger.

My thoughts exactly.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Just think! If they actually succeed in shrinking the equipment, Samuelsson would be a 50 goal scorer!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I'd rather see goalie equipment get shrinked as opposed to making nets bigger.

That being said though, I think it is really stupid how people give guys like Giguere s**t for his equipment. Does the equipment help? Without question, to a certain degree. Would he be terrible without the big equipment? No. He's still a solid goaltender and saying otherwise is just plain dumb.

As long as they play within the rules, equipment and everything else, I don't see why there should be such a giant uproar like there is on here at times concerning this. If this is a problem and people want to fix it, reducet the equipment size then. I don't see why athletes and fans regarding this have to make this so hard.

[tweekvp 0]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember anyone talking about goalies being great positionally 10 years ago.

With wider equipment a goalie that is challenging takes up a lot more net based on simple geometry.

I really believe the goalies would be just as safe with smaller equipment and the NHL would benefit. If the only objections are coming from goalies I say just get it done. I doubt the goalies overall will give up $millions every year for a couple inches of equipment.

Just my opinion though.

[auxlepli 17]

OsGod which would you rather see in future NHL games - bigger nets or smaller goalie gear? One or the other is going to happen. There's not a third option.

One pill makes makes nets larger, one pill makes goalies smaller.

The one that Bettman gave us hasn't done anything at all.

Don't ask Michelin Man, he's already 10 feet tall, err wide.

Edited February 21, 2008 by auxlepli

[Izzy24 44]

OsGod which would you rather see in future NHL games - bigger nets or smaller goalie gear? One or the other is going to happen. There's not a third option.

One pill makes makes nets larger, one pill makes goalies smaller.

The one that Bettman gave us hasn't done anything at all.

Don't ask Michelin Man, he's already 10 feet tall, err wide.

Does this have anything to do with ****** smoking caterpillars?

[puckloo39 5,686]

enough already, leave the goalies alone

Ray Slover from The Sporting News thinks unstable franchises, rotten TV coverage and the price of beer are all more of a problem to the game of hockey than goalies. He gets a tad sarcastic about it all.

I think one reason goaltenders' equipment is more protective now than, say 30 years ago, has to do with the fact that the skaters/shooters now are huge, incredibly strong guys, compared to the hockey players of that era. Players now are bigger, stronger and they have better equipment. I don't see the problem with protecting the goalies or at least giving them a fighting chance with equipment that has kept pace with the tools provided to the skaters.

I for one don't really care to see games with scores that look like basketball games instead of hockey games. A timely, well-executed goal is a thing of beauty, and usually well-earned, if the player is skilled enough to get it past your typical "top notch" NHL goaltender. I think game after game of seeing the goalies get shelled every night would actually get stale pretty quick.

The tough part is the subjectiveness of who decides which goalie's equipment is over the line in terms of size, if that is the opinion at issue. Maybe we should regulate the height and weight of the goalies, so they're all the same height and weight.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Does this have anything to do with ****** smoking caterpillars?

possibly...

[vangvace 12]

Does this have anything to do with ****** smoking caterpillars?

don't forget you're talking to a neo generation