Hasek..

[Outsider 42]

when I see you on the wings payroll as a 3 time 50 game winning coach behind the bench of an NHL team I will take your judgement into account, but until then you are nothing more than an armchair coach with an opinion posting on an internet forum.

Carry on

Last time I checked, this was a message board, it's purpose to allow fans of ALL opinions to express their thoughts.

And Babcock was on the Wings payroll when he made the bone-headed decision to name Legace the Starting goaltender for the Detroit Red Wings before his OTHER option in net had so much as played a single Game.

The decision to name Legace the Play-Off Starter with months to go before the Post Season even began was equally mystifying.

But hey! That worked out great, so he was right.

Right?

[Superman54 91]

Yes but this thread has gotten 176 posts now, so it is an interest to some people. Hey I hope Hasek comes back and plays amazing, and proves my doubts wrong. But weather you like or hate the goalie threads, they are one of the most popular if not #1 thread people discuss on. You just have to ignore those idiotic posts some people write, and try and have a good debate. Hell this is the #1 thread ive been looking at today, considering its kept me entertained. Goalie discussion will always be here, mainly because of the goaltenders we have, and the way this season went about. So you just gotta stay away from them if you do not like it, because there is no point getting yourself worked up over it.

[Viperar 16]

Last time I checked, this was a message board, it's purpose to allow fans of ALL opinions to express their thoughts.

And Babcock was on the Wings payroll when he made the bone-headed decision to name Legace the Starting goaltender for the Detroit Red Wings before his OTHER option in net had so much as played a single Game.

The decision to name Legace the Play-Off Starter with months to go before the Post Season even began was equally mystifying.

But hey! That worked out great, so he was right.

Right?

Well if life is so hard as a fan under Babs, maybe you shoudl follow suit with those Islanders fans in your avatar.

[gcom007 1,465]

True, but far, FAR more would want his head grilled in a barbeque.

Me I'm more of a middle man who has never understood the obnoxious over-obession on goaltenders here.

More often than not I'm a middleman. I wasn't when Legace was around. I said all season long going with him as the starter into the playoffs was a big mistake and look where it got them. This year, I feel it's a similar situation. You've got a big name goalie who's old and hasn't played well and another guy who's had an All Star year. Of course the big name guy goes in the playoffs, but is it really the best move? Especially at this point, you've gotta at least wonder.

What makes this situation worse is that I'm still not at all convinced that much of the decision-making doesn't have to do with worrying about how Hasek will respond in the locker room given his well-known past. You go with Osgood and should he fumble which you also have to ask after the 2nd half, can you trust that Hasek's going to have his head on straight to come in and make it happen? I'm not so sure. I don't think anyone can deny that he's got about as delicate of an ego as anyone. Again, you can call it conjecture, but his history is pretty clear and you've gotta consider it.

And that's not so cool. It shouldn't be that way and that's what makes it hard this year. Again, can you honestly say if it said, oh, Turco or Kiprusoff on the back of Hasek's jersey this year that he would've started over Osgood? I don't think you can. And you can't argue with the fact that Hasek's 43 and hasn't proven much this year and now at this point, all things considered, he hasn't proven much in the playoffs either.

Now, I'm not arguing they should put Osgood in now at all so much as trying to illustrate why I think there's more substance to the goalie issue this year. Last year? None. This year? Plenty. Given that a lot of Detroit fans dig the whole team aspect the Wings tend to embody, it's also tough to get over certain aspects of Hasek's personality, history and the crap he has put this team and the fans through. I don't like that aspect of his personality but ultimately I'm committed to winning. Last year Hasek had all my support despite the fact that I didn't feel he was as strong as he once was. He still had a solid season and he had a solid playoffs as well, but I think he definitely proved that he wasn't the goalie he once was when it counted.

Again, I'm committed to winning. Hasek has not convinced me this year that he's the best guy we've got when we need to win. Thus far in the playoffs, he has done nothing to convince me otherwise. Again, watch some other games if you think he's been great. Watch highlights from tonights 1-0 Canadians victory over Boston. Hasek ain't even close to great right now compared to most of the other goalies in the playoffs. That's the bottom line. Stats aren't everything but they're something and they're quite telling right now.

And lastly, while I don't expect this to happen, should we lose Game 4, unless Hasek truly is great, I think if you forget about names on the back of the jersey, you go with Osgood in game 5 if only to shake things up. Even if we lost I doubt it'd happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't. Just look at Legace a few years back. He should've been done and granted Osgood ended up injured, they were going to sink with Legace. It shouldn't have happened. Oh well. And also, I still think we'll win in 5 anyways, though I'm not convinced Hasek will rise above average play in the process. We'll get out of this one still easy enough I think, but round 2 is going to be very, very telling.

[gcom007 1,465]

Yes but this thread has gotten 176 posts now, so it is an interest to some people. Hey I hope Hasek comes back and plays amazing, and proves my doubts wrong. But weather you like or hate the goalie threads, they are one of the most popular if not #1 thread people discuss on. You just have to ignore those idiotic posts some people write, and try and have a good debate. Hell this is the #1 thread ive been looking at today, considering its kept me entertained. Goalie discussion will always be here, mainly because of the goaltenders we have, and the way this season went about. So you just gotta stay away from them if you do not like it, because there is no point getting yourself worked up over it.

I'm in them a lot because I find goalies to be the most fascinating. There's so many extra psychological factors at play and it's such an important position. The drastic rise and fall of goalies year to year is enough to prove that. Jim Carrey anyone? It's just a fascinating topic to me. And also, so incredibly important.

[Outsider 42]

Well if life is so hard as a fan under Babs, maybe you shoudl follow suit with those Islanders fans in your avatar.

LOL....

Of all the smug......

Unbelievable. Of course....when you're finished "policing" this thread, I'm sure there are others you can rid of any dissenting opinions, no?

For the record, I'm an ISLANDERS fan. so I know a bit about Coaching/Management/Fans who insist on sticking with a goalie based upon "name" or "reputation" or "potential" alone.

Works every time.

Perhaps I've been mistaken from the gate, and fans of Teams other than the Wings are no longer welcome here?

If that's the case, kindly show me your credentials as Owner/Supreme Grand High Poster on this forum, and I'll no longer post anything other than that which you find agreeable.

Until then.....Carry on......

[Viperar 16]

LOL....

Of all the smug......

Unbelievable. Of course....when you're finished "policing" this thread, I'm sure there are others you can rid of any dissenting opinions, no?

For the record, I'm an ISLANDERS fan. so I know a bit about Coaching/Management/Fans who insist on sticking with a goalie based upon "name" or "reputation" or "potential" alone.

Works every time.

Perhaps I've been mistaken from the gate, and fans of Teams other than the Wings are no longer welcome here?

If that's the case, kindly show me your credentials as Owner/Supreme Grand High Poster on this forum, and I'll no longer post anything other than that which you find agreeable.

Until then.....Carry on......

No dude, carry on, I am serious, I just think its hysterical that some people think they know better than an NHL coach about hockey. Yes coaches make mistakes, theyre human, thats all I can say for the Legace decision.

I am sorry I didn't mean to knock the Islanders, and I realize some of my posts might have been hypocritical but seeing so many of these threads gets ridiculous.

I am also sorry you're an Islanders fan

[HenrikRules40 14]

For as HIGH as everyone talks Hasek up, throwing out how he was the best goalie in the NHL in the second half, and against playoff teams, how he has stole however many games it was and this and that, I would have guessed you would have a better answer than

He's a damn good goalie, I EXPECT him, being Dominik Hasek, to make those saves on the 3rd and 4th goal, which he could have had both (the fourth one was from a couple feet in front of the blue line, come on, good shot or not he has to stop that) and should have.

I guess I find it funny that how everyone that loves Hasek will state every single PERSONAL accolade he has attained but then fall back on isn't hockey a team game or it's not his fault. Well, then throw every single personal accolade he has won in the trash. Because the team won them. Not him.

He has brain farts like he has the past two games better teams are going to eat him up.

I gotta agree that I have very high expectations of Dom. But I have faith he will have a huge game tomorrow. We know he's capable. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any of us say because we aren't going to change each others opinions on Red Wings goalies.

Go Wings?

[gcom007 1,465]

And Babcock was on the Wings payroll when he made the bone-headed decision to name Legace the Starting goaltender for the Detroit Red Wings before his OTHER option in net had so much as played a single Game.

The decision to name Legace the Play-Off Starter with months to go before the Post Season even began was equally mystifying.

But hey! That worked out great, so he was right!

Funny, I just brought that up as well. I really, really like the fact that Babcock's a loyal guy and tries to empower people by instilling confidence in them and giving them assurance of that. I think that's a strong suit of his, but at the same time, I think it's also a weakness that he'll have to learn to balance in time. I don't doubt that he will though. Maybe this is the year he really learns that lesson.

The Legace issue was a little cloudier because Osgood had injuries that year and neither goalie has the prolific profile of a guy like Hasek. This year, it's a lot more cut and dry. You've gotta figure he knows deep down that he's gambling on Hasek this year all things considered. I'm sure he's recalled the Legace situation numerous times down the stretch. He's riding the hope that the difference here is that, well, Hasek will become "The Dominator." Meanwhile, in doing so, he's benched the guy who clearly was the better goalie down the stretch.

Should things continue as they're going, I think Babcock learns an important lesson this year. It'd be a sucky way to learn and I certainly hope Hasek can turn it around and go out on top, but at the very least I think Babcock would be a better coach moving forward from the experience. As much as the regular season and playoffs are different games, at the same time, you can't ignore what's happening in the regular season altogether either.

[Viperar 16]

gcom is a living example of how goalie discussion can be civil...

[HenrikRules40 14]

gcom is a living example of how goalie discussion can be civil...

And you're an example of? JK JK JK!

[Viperar 16]

And you're an example of? JK JK JK!

an ass?

[gcom007 1,465]

No dude, carry on, I am serious, I just think its hysterical that some people think they know better than an NHL coach about hockey. Yes coaches make mistakes, theyre human, thats all I can say for the Legace decision.

I know he knows way more than me. But I also think there are certain things that are easier for people on the outside of a situation to accept or see. At this point though, my argument has more to do with psychology than hockey. Basically, it's the whole head/heart thing. If I'm in the room with these guys everyday and all, I think it makes a lot of the decisions a hell of a lot harder. I'm not hating on Babcock here either. I think he's a great coach, but a human too. It ain't easy any way you shake it. I know he ultimately is trying to do what he thinks is best. Sometimes I just think a more detached party might have a more realistic idea of what that is at the end of the day. Loyalty is so important to life, sports, hockey, the Wings, Babcock...but it can bite you in the butt too and you just have to deal...

[HenrikRules40 14]

an ass?

I didn't say it!

[BlueMonk 102]

He's riding the hope that the difference here is that, well, Hasek will become "The Dominator." Meanwhile, in doing so, he's benched the guy who clearly was the better goalie down the stretch.

This isn't true, though. Osgood's performance dropped off sharply down the stretch. His post All-Star numbers are not good: 7-6-2 record and a .893 save percentage. Hasek's numbers were better during the same stretch, although still not stellar by any means.

[gcom007 1,465]

gcom is a living example of how goalie discussion can be civil...

Wow. I'm surprised to see this. I think it helps that despite my thoughts on Hasek, my allegiance is to the team and winning first and foremost. I don't have an agenda. I just enjoy the discussion of this topic which is why I tend to be involved. I don't think many people here realize how much I would love to see Hasek go out on top to cap off a great career that's gotten ugly at the end. I'm hardly the biggest Hasek fan for a number of reasons, but I have respect for what he's done in his career and I try to think the best of guys in general if I can. As said, I'd love to see him turn it around. But eh, like I've also said, I'm just not really convinced it's going to happen when we face tougher teams and real adversity.

[gcom007 1,465]

This isn't true, though. Osgood's performance dropped off sharply down the stretch. His post All-Star numbers are not good: 7-6-2 record and a .893 save percentage. Hasek's numbers were better during the same stretch, although still not stellar by any means.

Osgood certainly didn't look as sharp in the second half as he did in the first. I absolutely agree. In the first half he rose above the mediocre play of the team and won games they shouldn't have. You didn't see that so much in the second half. A couple blatant stinker games for sure on his back. But, at the same time, and even I didn't give him this at first as I ragged on him through it, a lot of the games where he got hammered almost half our freaking team was injured. I mean, remember those games where Lebda and Lilja were our top two defensemen while the Griffins defense squad filled out the other spots, plus injuries up front and a general team slump. I'm not saying he couldn't have played better at all because he could've like he did earlier on, but that's a lot going against him and you have to consider it. Hasek was conveniently injured for much of this time as well if you remember...

[stillwater 186]

"how about everyone stfu and let the coach make the decisions about who starts in net. If babs deems ozzie fit to be in net instead of Hasek, it will come."

Might just as well lock the thread, and shut down the forum, then we'll all have more time to await the coaches decision ... but I don't see how the coaches decision has anything to do with this discussion. A reasonable exchange of opinions and ideas, without personal insult seems to me what should happen on a discussion board. You don't like it, don't bother clicking on the thread.

Good thing for everyone here, we have someone like you to dictate forum decorum.

[cboth686 0]

WOW..just wow. Are you even a Red Wings fan? Because only a person who has NO idea about Wings can post something like that. Of course that Dom is past his prime, just like goalie at the age of 40+! And Ozzie is classy guy, just FYI.

Too bad that you are not Wings GM, now it's just dumb Kenny who has no idea about our goalies whatsoever.

HAHA Yeah, I'm not a Red Wings fan, that's why I come to this site, to waste my time and try and plant seeds of negativity. You tool! Of course I'm a Red Wings fan! I'm also their biggest critic, and FYI, I've been a Red Wings fan for over 13+ Years, and I'm only 22. Which would mean yeah, I've been cheering for them since they acquired Vernon.

PS- I live in Calgary and proudly cheer for the Wings, so don't test my loyalty. You can't say crap about being a true fan until you cheer for an opposing team in Canada. If you do, GOOD ON YA.

[Wingfan191 2]

Every goalie has a bad game, look what happened to Backstrom and Turco tonight. Even Biron/Huet are letting in 3 or more goals a game. I think Price and Fleury have been the best goalies so far in the playoffs (though Fleury hasn't exactly been tested as much as the stats are showing, it's not the same Ottawa team that was 1st in scoring this year).

I just don't see a need to jump on Hasek's back for one sub-par outing out of 3 games. If he f's up Wednesday, then I'd be willing to put Ozzie in.

[jpfalcon09 0]

This thread is still going on? Seriously? God, it seems like Dom must've just let Nashville score at will with all the whiners in this thread. Makes me question how many people on here REALLY know the game of hockey and how to make informed decisions.

A couple of things to address from reading nearly two pages of mindless chatter back and forth.

#1) Goalies can actually skate, and are typically the best skaters on a team. Until you learn how to actually do what they do, don't sound like a fool saying it. Lateral movement and pivoting, along with strong pushes are something not many "normal" skaters can do well.

#2) If sports were based on knee-jerk reactions, like changing goaltenders after a bad game, or playing a backup QB after your star QB has a bad game, then I don't think any one team would have much success. I doubt the Patriots would sit Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, even if he had 6 INTs. The Wings are gonna do the same with Dom.

#3) If you're a fan of Osgood and solely Osgood, then don't comment on how bad you want Hasek to ride the pine. You root for the jersey, not for the player, and to suggest that the Wings would be better off with Osgood in goal is walking a thin line. He's been through his own share of weak goals in his playoff career, so be careful what you say.

Close this thread after Game 4, it won't be needed for the rest of the series.

[Packer487 3]

I wonder what you guys would say about Dom if those posts in game 2 and 3, would have gone in. 3 goals in less then 2 minutes, both times! Its just sad to see the Posts bailing us out. Wings all around need to get better, yes even Hasek. I expect a very strong effort from our defensive end for game 4. I mean this is the Nashville Predators, our defense is not gonna get easier then this.

And what would you say about Dom if the shot by Arnott was an inch off and it hit the goal post and the shot by Weber got blocked on the way through? Holy crap! We're up 3-0 and Dom's GAA is still like 1.66!

And for the record, the post doesn't "Bail us out". The shot wasn't on net, it didn't go in. Was it close? Sure. But so are the shots that miss the post by an inch. So are chances where the goalie was out of position and the dman blocked it. So are the chances where a player has an empty net and fans or the puck hops over his stick. You just don't get a nice "PING" when those happen. It's amazing that we're actually counting posts against him now.

You are correct that the Wings as a whole, including Hasek, need to be better. It was one game. The defense sucked balls, Hasek gave up a bad third goal. But guess what? The Penguins are the only team left in the postseason that hasn't lost. This team isn't perfect and people tend to forget (like on the Arnott goal) that the other guys are paid professionals as well. Sometimes it's not that the goalie or defense did anything wrong....the other guys can do things correctly.

For as HIGH as everyone talks Hasek up, throwing out how he was the best goalie in the NHL in the second half, and against playoff teams, how he has stole however many games it was and this and that, I would have guessed you would have a better answer than rolleyes.gif

What am I supposed to say to a post with such cutting commentary as "Why did we carry Hasek's creaky carcass all season if the defense has to be absolutely perfect for him to make saves?" By and large, goalies don't stop shots that change direction at the last second. They don't consistently stop two-on-ones when the defenseman lets the pass get through and the shot gets one-timed.

The third goal wasn't good--and Hasek's stand-up enough to admit it. The fourth one was a gorgeous shot that they guy liteally couldn't have placed any better. He had about an inch window to squeeze that puck through and he did it.

Did he play an amazing game in Game 3? Absolutely not. I've never said it, I've never insinuated it. But the statement I was responding to was absolutely asinine. He didn't play well for a game. It happens. For the record, Kronwall, Stuart, Chelios, Lilja, and a few others all did things that hurt this team in Game 3. And it's pretty clear that it was a major exaggeration to say Dom needs the defense to be perfect to succeed (or to suggest that anyone blames the defense any time a goal goes in and the defense wasn't perfect). It is nice when they're remotely competent, however. And they weren't on the second goal.

There's one team in the entire NHL Playoffs that hasn't lost yet. People just need to take a pill and calm the **** down. It's been the most annoying thing about this board all year--people flip out and resort to blaming the goalie whenever we lose a game. It's the message board version of Robert Lang. It's lazy and it sucks.

He's a damn good goalie, I EXPECT him, being Dominik Hasek, to make those saves on the 3rd and 4th goal, which he could have had both (the fourth one was from a couple feet in front of the blue line, come on, good shot or not he has to stop that) and should have.

You need to watch the clip of the 4th goal again. It wasn't a couple feet. Arnott was at the top of the faceoff circle and he put an absolute laser into the top corner. Again, these guys get paid too. Every goal doesn't mean someone f***ed up.

I guess I find it funny that how everyone that loves Hasek will state every single PERSONAL accolade he has attained but then fall back on isn't hockey a team game or it's not his fault. Well, then throw every single personal accolade he has won in the trash. Because the team won them. Not him.

I have no problem calling a spade a spade. The third goal sucked. Datsyuk might have screened him just a tick, but Dom was pissed at himself for missing it and he should've stopped it. Maybe if he threw his arms out to the side like Osgood does after basically every single goal, people would have cut him some slack.

But blaming him for the first, second, or fourth goals is pretty absurd IMO. Just because the first and second goals occured in quick succession doesn't mean he had a chance on either one of them. We've had the tendency to give up goals rapid-fire the last couple of games. It just means that EVERYONE needs to do a better job of refocusing after a goal. And maybe don't do things like change lines 3 seconds after the puck is dropped and we don't get it in deep in the Nashville zone. Just a thought...

No one has said that Hasek was amazing in Game 3. Just that he didn't suck as badly as the dips***s that want to blame the goalie after every loss think.

We're still fine. We're winning this series in 5, 6 at most. Most of us wouldn't have predicted a sweep and Nashville was at home with their backs to the wall. It sucked how we lost that game, but it happens. I'm sure Calgary ain't thrilled tonight when they had a chance to bury San Jose and blew it. I guess Kipper isn't as money as everyone thought either. OMG PLAY CUJO! I'm sure Dallas isn't thrilled that they lost a game when they had a chance to bury the defending champs. But Turco sucks. Shouldn't have traded Smith. Nosir. Washington should probably be looking to Kolzig right now. New Jersey? Hope they've got a goalie in their system somewhere because Brodeur is pretty clearly past his prime. And Lunqvist gave up 4 and lost a game. He sucks too.

He has brain farts like he has the past two games better teams are going to eat him up.

Ditto the defense. Hard to not call it a brain fart when Stuart leaves the zone and Kronwall does nothing. Or when Chelios heads off the ice 3 seconds after the puck drops and we haven't gotten it in deep, then Lilja completely takes himself out of position.

Everyone needs to play better. And they will. We're fine.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Packer487

[The Noodle 39 14]

For as HIGH as everyone talks Hasek up, throwing out how he was the best goalie in the NHL in the second half, and against playoff teams, how he has stole however many games it was and this and that, I would have guessed you would have a better answer than

He's a damn good goalie, I EXPECT him, being Dominik Hasek, to make those saves on the 3rd and 4th goal, which he could have had both (the fourth one was from a couple feet in front of the blue line, come on, good shot or not he has to stop that) and should have.

I guess I find it funny that how everyone that loves Hasek will state every single PERSONAL accolade he has attained but then fall back on isn't hockey a team game or it's not his fault. Well, then throw every single personal accolade he has won in the trash. Because the team won them. Not him.

He has brain farts like he has the past two games better teams are going to eat him up.

K now people are just over exagerating...