Don Cherry on Wings/Preds

[Frozen-Man 144]

If course his wife is European. He probably beats her all day (and Im not joking about this. It happens a lot more than people talk about) and thats probably where he gets all his "All Euros are soft" comments.

That is a pretty bold claim anything, anything whatsoever to back that up?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I am from America and didn't defend or condone what Cherry said all I said is that it is inaccurate to call him a racist based upon the statement from this thread. If you can show me where he has said anything about not liking players because of their race then I will agree but the statement from THIS thread has nothing to do with race. In general, a great portion of Canada's population is of European descent which makes them the same race. Cherry (again at least as far as I know) has never disparaged any player or team because of their race but because of nationality. If you want to claim that Cherry is bigoted because he only likes Canadian players or the North American style of play that is fine but that doesn't necessarily make him a racist and to claim that somehow the definition of racist includes this behavior is just plain wrong. Xenophobia deals with nationality not race and that is what you are ultimately claiming. It is not a question of "growing up" or "defending this idiot" it is merely that the term racist does not include bais because of nationality. I am pretty sure that Cherry and Lidstrom are of the same race and that Cherry has no problem with Lidstroms race. He may not like that he is a from Sweeden or that Lidstrom does not play a physical Canadian style of hockey lilke Phaneuf but rather a European style of puck possession but that has NOTHING to do with race whatsoever which as the word implies is a requirement of racist.

Your term is wrong and just because it is unappealing to you doesn't change the definition of what the word means. Finally, if you will remember Don Imus' statements were about the members of the basketball teams race not the fact that they were American thus they were race related comments not nationality related comments.

To me making statements against a particular nationality is not any more tolerant than making statements against someone's race. It can be a form of disguised racism.

[hallelujahlogic 1]

If course his wife is European. He probably beats her all day (and Im not joking about this. It happens a lot more than people talk about) and thats probably where he gets all his "All Euros are soft" comments.

dude. what the hell? that's a ridiculous and ignorant thing to say. especially when you don't offer any proof.

and, uh, he thought euros were soft way before he was married to luba.

i mean, maybe he knocks ron mclean around every now and again, but ron's an enabler! he makes him do it! and that's canadian on canadian violence!*

but yeah, seriously, you sound way more biased against grapes than he does against ANYONE. so maybe you should just stay in your glass house and keep your stones safely locked away, 'eh.

*joke. chill.

Edited April 23, 2008 by hallelujahlogic

[Frozen-Man 144]

To me making statements against a particular nationality is not any more tolerant than making statements against someone's race. It can be a form of disguised racism.

I never (and neither did the other posters) ever say it was more tolerant. What I said is it is not CALLED racism when it is against nationality it is called xenophobia. Furthermore, I still have yet to see one instance where he has said anything AGAINST another nationality, all that has been discussed in this thread is that he favors his. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really trying to defend Cherry, I'm not a big fan, in fact I find the way that he yells annoying and disagree with a lot of his analysis but I still have yet to see any of his statements where he attacks or disparages another RACE and if he has not then by the definition of the word he has not made a racist statement.

[Cern 0]

Honestly, what annoys me more than Cherry's xenophobia is his increasing dedication of his timeslot spent talking about how unbelievably awesome the armed forces/war is. I need regular reminding that I'm watching hockey and not The National.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Cern

[Guest nutz2u]

Right. Hes not senile. Then please explain how somebody can believe that Ryan Malone was the MVP for the Pens while Sidney Crosby was out, despite Malkin being 80 times the player Malone is on both ends of the ice.

The sad thing is, Grapes is a sideshow. And everyone knows it but him.

Sideshow, that's a perfect discription of the idiot in his monkey clothes.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Grapes has both praise and criticism for players of all nationalities. He says great things about European players like Saku Koivu, Chara and Alfredsson. He also trashes Canadians like Sean Avery and Matt Cooke. He's an unabashed supporter of Canadian hockey. So? He's Canadian. I don't see any problems here. Everyone cheers for their national team. Grapes likes a certain style of hockey, the kind that's played in North America, mostly by Canadians. I can't fault him for that. I'm of 100% European lineage, but I prefer North American hockey, too.

That'll fall on deaf ears BM, but it was a good post. Cherry isnt against Europeans even if people believe that, he likes Canadians because he's Canadian. I do as well, am I a xenophobe or a racist because of it? No. I just prefer people I can relate to better, Nicklas Lidstrom is one of my favorite players yes, but I like Stevie alot more. Just how some people are, I can understand why Don gets flamed, but just so everyone knows, he isnt a national hero in Canada, he damn well should be, but Canadians get tired of him as well, that is a joke IMO. He defends Canadians with all his heart, and people turn that into a negative. Just so were on the same page, if there was an analyst in the States who loved American players, would everyone hate him for that?

And to the person that hates the part of Coaches Corner where Don shows the soldiers, wow, just wow. I dont even want to get into that.

[Rivalred 630]

I am actually glad the series was not too physical. There was less wear and tear on the Wings whereas some of these other series have gone to game 7 and the hitting has been hard (in my eyes wearing the players down even more).

[YoungGuns1340 1]

dude. what the hell? that's a ridiculous and ignorant thing to say. especially when you don't offer any proof.

and, uh, he thought euros were soft way before he was married to luba.

i mean, maybe he knocks ron mclean around every now and again, but ron's an enabler! he makes him do it! and that's canadian on canadian violence!*

but yeah, seriously, you sound way more biased against grapes than he does against ANYONE. so maybe you should just stay in your glass house and keep your stones safely locked away, 'eh.

*joke. chill.

My comments are right on par with those of Cherrys. And look how you reacted. Ironic and precisely what I expected. My proof? Just like Don Cherry's proof that Malone is more valuable to the Pens than Malkin claims.

[Saran 1]

I ******* HATE CHERRY PERIOD.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

That'll fall on deaf ears BM, but it was a good post. Cherry isnt against Europeans even if people believe that, he likes Canadians because he's Canadian. I do as well, am I a xenophobe or a racist because of it? No. I just prefer people I can relate to better, Nicklas Lidstrom is one of my favorite players yes, but I like Stevie alot more. Just how some people are, I can understand why Don gets flamed, but just so everyone knows, he isnt a national hero in Canada, he damn well should be, but Canadians get tired of him as well, that is a joke IMO. He defends Canadians with all his heart, and people turn that into a negative. Just so were on the same page, if there was an analyst in the States who loved American players, would everyone hate him for that?

And to the person that hates the part of Coaches Corner where Don shows the soldiers, wow, just wow. I dont even want to get into that.

If that analyst constantly made fun of foreign players and made foolish statements about them, then that analyst would be fired instantly. There's too many civil rights groups here as well as the FCC, that would prevent anyone like Cherry from appearing on national television in America regularly.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Ah yes, the FCC. Peter Griffin and I share the same opinon on them .

[Frozen-Man 144]

My comments are right on par with those of Cherrys. And look how you reacted. Ironic and precisely what I expected. My proof? Just like Don Cherry's proof that Malone is more valuable to the Pens than Malkin claims.

WOW, your comparison of someone thinking that one player is more valuable than another to someone calling another person (without a shread of proof) a wife beater (both a crime and morally repugnant) is unbelieveable. Those comments are in no way "on par" with one another. Thats why your statement comes close to slander and his is nothing because it is opinion while you attempted to state a fact that (as far as you know) is a lie.

[Frozen-Man 144]

If that analyst constantly made fun of foreign players and made foolish statements about them, then that analyst would be fired instantly. There's too many civil rights groups here as well as the FCC, that would prevent anyone like Cherry from appearing on national television in America regularly.

That is incorrect as far as the FCC is concerned they have explicitly stated that regarding such speech they "intend to avoid extending the bounds of profanity to reach such language [that is not profanity] given constitutional considerations.”

[Kp-Wings 3]

Ah yes, the FCC. Peter Griffin and I share the same opinon on them .

That episode is so awesome! My personal favorite line:

"All farts will now be converted into Steven Wright jokes."

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Like him or not, Cherry sure is damned entertaining and funny. Whether he just says stuff out of left field or not, at least he's passionate the few times I have seen him.

I take comments from guys like him or McGuire with a grain of salt and with very little seriousness as they'll usually talk out of their rear ends every few minutes. No point in getting to upset over guys like them.

[jim3033 1]

But I must say the best thing I have ever seen Grapes do was call Brett Hull out on the foot in the crease in the finals last year.

:rotflmao:

Grapes and Pierre have something in common. They both despise the Redwings.

[Doggy 130]

Don Cherry is not racist. He is very passionate and biased towards he things he loves - that is, Canada and Boston. In fact, I don't know if any if you stooges know this but he MUCH more biased towards the Bruins than any Canadian team.

Seriously, who gives a s*** if he's biased and who gives a s*** if he says stupid things. He also says some correct things - like the Detroit/Nashville series wasn't physical.

You'd have to be pretty dim to get worked up over Don Cherry. Why don't you all piss and moan about something that matters?

[WhiteCloud 0]

Yeah, Cherry is not a fan of the traditional European game but I don't think he hates European players. It's his schtick though and he is going to run with it. The fact is the Wings are less physical because of their style of play. When you play a puck control type of game there is going to be fewer opportunities to play the body. That does not mean the Wings are soft. When the opportunity presents itself they take the body and most of the time they match their opponents physicality. Cherry prefers dump and chase grind it out hockey and the Wings are only going to play that style when the situation dictates that it is necessary. They can do it but they are better off keeping control of the puck and playing puck control. So Cherry is naturally not going to get as excited about that.

He did not call them soft but he was pretty much spot on with his assessment. I don't take his opinions too seriously but I still enjoy the entertainment value.

[hallelujahlogic 1]

My comments are right on par with those of Cherrys. And look how you reacted. Ironic and precisely what I expected. My proof? Just like Don Cherry's proof that Malone is more valuable to the Pens than Malkin claims.

WOW, your comparison of someone thinking that one player is more valuable than another to someone calling another person (without a shread of proof) a wife beater (both a crime and morally repugnant) is unbelieveable. Those comments are in no way "on par" with one another. Thats why your statement comes close to slander and his is nothing because it is opinion while you attempted to state a fact that (as far as you know) is a lie.

frozen-man, you said it better than i could.

[RedArmy 4]

cherry hates all non canadian players, watches 30 second clips of the actual games, his idea of physical is dump and chase the puck then crash the net and score and level everyone on the way in...

cherry is senile for sure lol

[ElCapitan 14]

I can't believe so many of you are defending this *******. I guess in Canada racism isn't looked at the same way as America, because in the U.S. this jackass would have been fired twice faster than Don Imus or Rush Limbaugh. To me what he's doing is disguised racism, and not nationalism, whatever the hell that means. Every racist has a good excuse for it, and you guys need to grow up instead of defending this idiot. I like physical hockey too, but that doesn't mean I hate European players, and call all Europeans sissies who are soft. He's just clueless, but he's considered some sort of Canadian hero, so he can get away with it.

My comments are not about defending Cherry. They are about HYPERSENSITIVE people that throw out the race card any time someone says something about someone of a different nationality or race. They are about people who do not understand, or refuse to understand the definitions of certain words and then improperly throw them out because of their dislike of someone and/or to be inflammatory. This is the kind of attitude and tactic that has artificially kept the fires of racism flaming in this country, the U.S., for decades. I hate it.

And for the record, I do know plenty about and have directly experienced racism. I’m a white man and I dated a black woman for almost 2 years. We caught a lot of crap for it from both perspective races. So please spare me any “you could never understand” comments.

Once again, if anyone can listen to Cherry’s comments about “Sissy Euros” with any kind of discernment, they would understand that his comments are really about a STYLE OF PLAYING HOCKEY, not racism or xenophobia. You can’t even compare it to the “Black Ho” comment by Mr. Imessedup.

I see that you’re 24. I can only assume that you’re either in college or are fresh out of college and know everything that there is to know about anything. Unfortunately it sounds like you’re outlook has been well shaped by liberal college professors. Hopefully someday you can grow up. Maybe a little hypersensitivity training and some real life experience will help.

Edited April 23, 2008 by ElCapitan

[Opie 308]

I like hitting as much as anyone but as Ducks found out, it didn't win the series. The Wings focused on skill and matched the hitting aspect of the game on an as needed basis. That's a better recipe for success and curtails injuries.

I'll bite. I totally disagree.

According to my dictionary...

Racist: Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Xenophobic: Fear and contempt of strangers or foreign peoples.

Europeans & Canadians are generally the same race, especially when it comes to hockey players from across the pond. For Cherry to be racist, he would have to be discriminatory or prejudiced toward his own race. Cherry never talks about hockey in terms of race. If you listen to him, he is talking about a style of playing hockey, not about race, not about fear and contempt of people who live in other countries.

Comments like yours are nothing but ignorant and/or inflammatory, just like those of a true racist. Please keep the race card in your pocket and stick to talking about hockey.

You say Tomato, I say racist!

He has been known for saying things to say things. He is an elderly version of Avery's mouth.

The only way this guy gets any notice is to run his mouth. As he becomes a worse and worse announcer he becomes more and more of a loud mouth.

I believe he sits down before the games/shows and thinks, hey what can I say to get me more notice, then maybe I can keep my job.

I have never liked the guy, I think he is mouthy and arrogant!

But I also hate Avery and have stated even if he wins Conn Smythe I don't want him in the Winged Wheel and there are those of you that would cream your shorts if he became a wing (similar to the way I would if Lucic were a wing), so we obviously have different opinions, but to me this guy is worse than Imus! Because Imus did it once got punished and came back with an apology.

And yes while Europeans and Canadians have similar ancestry to say that Canadians are just Europeans who have moved(paraphrase, my words not El Capitan's) is insulting to hundreds of years of Culture and Pride. And seriously did you just say that:

Europeans & Canadians are generally the same race, especially when it comes to hockey players from across the pond.

So you are telling me that Hockey players from Europe and Canada are basically the same people.

Hey, I have an idea, ask Dats if he would mind people saying he is basically a Canadian, or Zetterberg. Lots of people have something called national pride, and for some of these guys winning a gold medal for their country would mean more than the cup. National pride is not just something Americans have, look at what used to be Czechoslovakia, ask a Czech if he minds if you call him a Slovak because they are basically the same.

If you like the guy you like the guy, but don't come up with big words to hide the fact he is a racist, just in case you need to defend yourself to people calling you a racist because you like him, because any one that makes that correlation is someone you shouldn't care about. Because I think Chris Rock is funny and I love when he makes fun of white people that doesn't mean I hate whitey!

For the record I am a red headed white dude, not sure I could get any whiter without being see through!!!

EDIT:

After re-reading my post it seems like I am arguing with you, I am not, I am just trying to say that I view it differently than you do, and if you and I disagree, it is possible that the Euro's of the league disagree with you as well.

Remember racism is not viewed by the way the person said it intended it, but by how the person that is being talked about views it, or feels it.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Opie

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

My comments are not about defending Cherry. They are about HYPERSENSITIVE people that throw out the race card any time someone says something about someone of a different nationality or race. They are about people who do not understand, or refuse to understand the definitions of certain words and then improperly throw them out because of their dislike of someone and/or to be inflammatory. This is the kind of attitude and tactic that has artificially kept the fires of racism flaming in this country, the U.S., for decades. I hate it.

And for the record, I do know plenty about and have directly experienced racism. I’m a white man and I dated a black woman for almost 2 years. We caught a lot of crap for it from both perspective races. So please spare me any “you could never understand” comments.

Once again, if anyone can listen to Cherry’s comments about “Sissy Euros” with any kind of discernment, they would understand that his comments are really about a STYLE OF PLAYING HOCKEY, not racism or xenophobia. You can’t even compare it to the “Black Ho” comment by Mr. Imessedup.

I see that you’re 24. I can only assume that you’re either in college or are fresh out of college and know everything that there is to know about anything. Unfortunately it sounds like you’re outlook has been well shaped by liberal college professors. Hopefully someday you can grow up. Maybe a little hypersensitivity training and some real life experience will help.

I'm worse than that, buddy. I'm an ambulance chaser.

But since you know so much, maybe you can train me with some "hypersensitivity training" as you put it, and I can pick a new field.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I'm worse than that, buddy. I'm an ambulance chaser.

But since you know so much, maybe you can train me with some "hypersensitivity training" as you put it, and I can pick a new field.

On your post about the "Denver Columnist bashes Detroit" post you stated that "Because of people like him, I hate people from Denver," I guess according to you that would make you a racist? Since you stated that "To me making statements against a particular nationality is not any more tolerant than making statements against someone's race. It can be a form of disguised racism." Does it have to be against another nation or is it enough to be against people from a different city?