Burnside breaks down the WCF and picks the Wings in 7

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Grigs won't ever be a Wing, hon.

And we don't need Morrow... I just like his snarl and his playoff attitude. We got Kronner to kick butt, right?

The poster you were referring to was obviously being sarcastic. Seeing as your a Hasek fan I'm not sure if you picked that one up, as your judgement obviosuly is askew.

two very good goalies on the roster are not better than one hot and excellent goalie.

just to remind: there's only on goalie playing for each team at the same time.

forgetting his Wings-jinx I'd pick Turco over Oz here, and most certainly over Dom.

and a potential goalie carousel is everything but advantageous for Wings team.

on paper Stars have some advantage in net. it's not that huge but they can count

on Turco to make huge saves and boil them out of problems. with Oz I'm a little

bit more concerned. he's great at this stage of career but talent-wise he ranks

lower than Turco.

but I strongly suspect Turco's Wings-jinx will play a role in this series. if he

excersise(sp) his demons and plays Wings as good as he played Sharks we've

every reason to be concerned. if he pulls Jose Theodore, we're right there

in cup finals. it's very tough to predict

But both of the teams meating currently only have one Hot goaltender =D

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Grigs won't ever be a Wing, hon.

And we don't need Morrow... I just like his snarl and his playoff attitude. We got Kronner to kick butt, right?

The poster you were referring to was obviously being sarcastic. Seeing as your a Hasek fan I'm not sure if you picked that one up, as your judgement obviosuly is askew.

two very good goalies on the roster are not better than one hot and excellent goalie.

just to remind: there's only on goalie playing for each team at the same time.

forgetting his Wings-jinx I'd pick Turco over Oz here, and most certainly over Dom.

and a potential goalie carousel is everything but advantageous for Wings team.

on paper Stars have some advantage in net. it's not that huge but they can count

on Turco to make huge saves and boil them out of problems. with Oz I'm a little

bit more concerned. he's great at this stage of career but talent-wise he ranks

lower than Turco.

but I strongly suspect Turco's Wings-jinx will play a role in this series. if he

excersise(sp) his demons and plays Wings as good as he played Sharks we've

every reason to be concerned. if he pulls Jose Theodore, we're right there

in cup finals. it's very tough to predict

But both of the teams meating currently only have one Hot goaltender =D

[kylee 727]

Wings in 7?

ill take it happily.

[Doggy 130]

Not necessarily. Detroit has the luxury of two very good goaltenders. Does Dallas really have a realistic choice other than to ride Turco?

I disagree. You're only as good as your best goalie and right now Turco is without a doubt better than Ozzie or Hasek. With a bit of luck, that'll change after facing DAS MULE!!!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Wow, 2 sports analysts picked the Wings to advance? I'm surprised the forum didn't implode seeing this rare occurance.

[betterREDthandead 58]

We will see about this so-called Turco advantage. He's faced 27 shots per game, the third-lowest of any in the playoffs so far. (Who's allowed the fewest? Yeah, the Wings.)

Dallas has allowed 27 shots on goal per game. The Wings have fired 39.3 SOG per game at the other goalie. Even if Turco's excellent SV% stays exactly the same, those extra shots mean an extra goal per game. From two to three. Dallas' defense is pretty good at limiting shots on goal, but then again the Wings are pretty damn good at generating them.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I disagree. You're only as good as your best goalie and right now Turco is without a doubt better than Ozzie or Hasek. With a bit of luck, that'll change after facing DAS MULE!!!

Considering that Ozzie's GAA is 1.52 in the playoffs and Turco's is 1.73, add the fact that Ozzie is 6-0 in the playoffs, I beg to differ with your assessment of the goalie "goodness" in this series.

If anything, I would rate it a push.

[Doggy 130]

Considering that Ozzie's GAA is 1.52 in the playoffs and Turco's is 1.73, add the fact that Ozzie is 6-0 in the playoffs, I beg to differ with your assessment of the goalie "goodness" in this series.

If anything, I would rate it a push.

I really don't care what the stats are. I've watched Turco play and you clearly haven't.

There's a reason so many say Turco has been better. It's because they're unbiased.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Also, there's this: Before that 61-for-62 performance in Game 6 against San Jose, Turco's SV% was a good-not-great .912, which was exactly what it took to get Martin Gerber swept out of the first round.

In other words, Turco has been nothing more than his usual pretty-good self this playoff season. Now he's going against a team that doesn't particularly like to dump the puck into the zone, thus nullifying one of his great advantages which is puckhandling.

Remember this stuff when people are wondering what went wrong with Marty Turco as the Wings take a 3-1 series lead back to the Joe where Turco is still winless.

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

I really don't care what the stats are. I've watched Turco play and you clearly haven't.

There's a reason so many say Turco has been better. It's because they're unbiased.

Against who? I'm pretty sure that Turco is something like 2-7 against Detroit in his career, and has never won at the Joe. Turco isn't even close to being an elite goalie; I'm not saying that Osgood is, but he's better than that choke artist.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

...the reason Dallas has the advantage in goal, it's simple, becuase NOBODY ANYWHERE HAS EVER GIVEN OSGOOD THE CREDIT HE DESERVES!!!! EVER!!! G.D. he is only the 15th winningest goaler of ALL-TIME. He has 2 Stanley Cups! He led the league in GAA and is leader the playoffs in GAA!!! I don't care who he played for, he deserves EVERYTHING that HE HAS DONE!!! He has already solidified he place as the #1 starter next year with his performance thus far. WHEN he wins his 3rd Cup, he will definately be Hall of Fame worthy and his #30 WILL be hung from the rafters!

...even after all that, the "EXPERTS" will still NEVER give him his credit. EVER!

[Doggy 130]

Also, there's this: Before that 61-for-62 performance in Game 6 against San Jose, Turco's SV% was a good-not-great .912, which was exactly what it took to get Martin Gerber swept out of the first round.

In other words, Turco has been nothing more than his usual pretty-good self this playoff season. Now he's going against a team that doesn't particularly like to dump the puck into the zone, thus nullifying one of his great advantages which is puckhandling.

Remember this stuff when people are wondering what went wrong with Marty Turco as the Wings take a 3-1 series lead back to the Joe where Turco is still winless.

Did you see some of Turco's saves in those OT periods? That is exactly why Turco is a great goalie. It was clutch stuff. Ozzie has had to make one clutch save in the playoffs (game 3 dying secs). He's had to beat a depleted Avs team and the Preds (with a turned around Wings team). He's also let in more than a few soft goals. Luckily, the superior team in front of him bailed him out for the 6-0 record.

Don't get me wrong Ozzie has been great for us and I love the guy. But some people think his s*** don't stink. We can win the Cup with him but come on, he's no Roy, Plante or Hasek.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

I really don't care what the stats are. I've watched Turco play and you clearly haven't.

There's a reason so many say Turco has been better. It's because they're unbiased.

...of course Turco has been better, because everyone in the league is better than Osgood, according to the unbiased "EXPERTS." Stefan Liv has been better than Chris Osgood! My sister has been better than Chris Osgood! The whole NHL/AHL/ECHL/WCHA/CCHA/BLAH BLAH BLAH has been better than Chris Osgood...

...Watch as the Stars lose, but it won't be because Osgood outplayed Turco, according to the unbiased experts...

...I am so sick of folks not giving Osgood his just deserve. Not even another Cup will keep the hounds away, they'll still call him a "BACK-UP!"

[Doggy 130]

...of course Turco has been better, because everyone in the league is better than Osgood, according to the unbiased "EXPERTS." Stefan Liv has been better than Chris Osgood! My sister has been better than Chris Osgood! The whole NHL/AHL/ECHL/WCHA/CCHA/BLAH BLAH BLAH has been better than Chris Osgood...

...Watch as the Stars lose, but it won't be because Osgood outplayed Turco, according to the unbiased experts...

...I am so sick of folks not giving Osgood his just deserve. Not even another Cup will keep the hounds away, they'll still call him a "BACK-UP!"

Lol. Relax man. I never said any of those things. Why quotation marks around experts? I've never mentioned experts. Nor have I mentioned Liv or your sister. Osgood is getting his just DESSERTS. One, maybe two Stanley Cups as a starter and two Jennings trophies ain't bad for a solid yet unremarkable goalie.

And look I never said that Turco and the Stars would win. In fact, I said the opposite. For some reason, Turo can't handle Motown and I don't think anything will change in this series. But that doesn't mean he sucks.

Ozzie has a great team in front of him and that is why he is 6-0 and all the other inflated stats. There's a reason he struggled to keep a SV% above .900 in St. Louis and New York.

Ozzie is NOT the best goalie ever okay? Get over it. I have, and I'm still happy with him.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Did you see some of Turco's saves in those OT periods? That is exactly why Turco is a great goalie. It was clutch stuff. Ozzie has had to make one clutch save in the playoffs (game 3 dying secs). He's had to beat a depleted Avs team and the Preds (with a turned around Wings team). He's also let in more than a few soft goals. Luckily, the superior team in front of him bailed him out for the 6-0 record.

Don't get me wrong Ozzie has been great for us and I love the guy. But some people think his s*** don't stink. We can win the Cup with him but come on, he's no Roy, Plante or Hasek.

I... think I love you. Very few here will agree with you, for the most part - and you may not care. But you have some valid points, just not very popular ones around here.

Turco was great in the last series... nothing short of it. How he will fare with the Wings coming at him is another story. Will he overcome his phobias (and Datsyuk?). Will Mule take him to school? The Wings haven't really faced a challenge yet. The entire team played badly in round 1 until the wake up call in game 4. Since then, they've been the team one expects them to be. The Avs were crippled and never had a chance, really.

Dallas looks ready to hand the Wings a challenge. But I think the Wings will prevail, as a team.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

Did you see some of Turco's saves in those OT periods? That is exactly why Turco is a great goalie. It was clutch stuff. Ozzie has had to make one clutch save in the playoffs (game 3 dying secs). He's had to beat a depleted Avs team and the Preds (with a turned around Wings team). He's also let in more than a few soft goals. Luckily, the superior team in front of him bailed him out for the 6-0 record.

Don't get me wrong Ozzie has been great for us and I love the guy. But some people think his s*** don't stink. We can win the Cup with him but come on, he's no Roy, Plante or Hasek.

...no, but here's an interesting stat. Patrick Roy's carrer winning percentage is .535. Chris Osgood's is .546...

...hmmmmm.... Seems to me Roy played for some pretty good teams in his career as well. If you continue the above trend, and Osgood plays in the same 1029 games that Roy did, he'll end up with 561 wins, 10 more than Roy...

...btw, Hasek winning percentage is only .530 and even though comparing Osgood to Plante isn't fair (different era's) Plante's winning percentage is only .518 for his entire NHL career...

...so maybe these guys have more wins than Ozzie, but Ozzie wins more consistantly and more often...

...although he deserves the Hall and number retired now, one more Cup should solidify it...

...but back to the original subject, yeah, Turco has the advantage in goal, Osgood is no better than a back up...

Edited May 7, 2008 by LeftWinger

[betterREDthandead 58]

My sister has been better than Chris Osgood!

Oh, I know

Did you see some of Turco's saves in those OT periods? That is exactly why Turco is a great goalie. It was clutch stuff. Ozzie has had to make one clutch save in the playoffs (game 3 dying secs).

Do you mean Game 1?

Anyway, I'm not taking anything away from Turco's performance in that Game 6. 61 saves is phenomenal no matter how you slice it. But it inflated his stats and his reputation from the rest of the playoffs. His career SV% is .913; his playoffs SV% without that Game 6 is .912, which is why I figure Turco hasn't done any better this year than normal. And you can't take anything away from Ozzie just because the defense in front of him is better than what's in front of Turco.

[Doggy 130]

...no, but here's an interesting stat. Patrick Roy's carrer winning percentage is .535. Chris Osgood's is .546...

...hmmmmm.... Seems to me Roy played for some pretty good teams in his career as well. If you continue the above trend, and Osgood plays in the same 1029 games that Roy did, he'll end up with 561 wins, 10 more than Roy...

...btw, Hasek winning percentage is only .530 and even though comparing Osgood to Plante isn't fair (different era's) Plante's winning percentage is only .518 for his entire NHL career...

...so maybe these guys have more wins than Ozzie, but Ozzie wins more consistantly and more often...

...although he deserves the Hall and number retired now, one more Cup should solidify it...

...but back to the original subject, yeah, Turco has the advantage in goal, Osgood is no better than a back up...

Haha. Thanks for that. You actually proved my point that the stats are more or less pointless.

Hey Loo. I love you too.

Ozzie is great and I love him but I'm not gonna sit here and say he's something that he isn't. Even if 90% of this board hangs me for it.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

Haha. Thanks for that. You actually proved my point that the stats are more or less pointless.

Hey Loo. I love you too.

Ozzie is great and I love him but I'm not gonna sit here and say he's something that he isn't. Even if 90% of this board hangs me for it.

...I am not on your side, the only thing I did prove is that Osgood has a winning percentage better than the three goalies you mentioned. He has 2 Cups (one his) and soon (hopefully) to be 3. He will play at least 3 more seasons with Detroit and at his current winning percentage average of nearly 55 percent, if he plays in 60 games each of those years he'll amass 99 more wins. He should win a Cup (or two) in that time. I am one of the biggest Osgood fans here and always have and always will call him a ligitmate #1 goalie. He will be the starter next year, there is no reason for Dickhead Holland to even try to sign an overpaid goalie, Hasek will be gone and Howard will be Osgood's back-up. Stats are not useless, it is was judges each and every player in ANY league...

...and I proved that all you Osgood haters are wrong. In the end, he will have won 3 or more Cups, possibly become the #1 all time Red Wing goalie in wins, be inducted into the Halll of Fame and see his number hanging next to OTHER Red Wing greats...

...but like you say, the "UNBIASED" experts think Dallas has the edge in goal this series, because Turco stopped 61 of 62 shots and won on a penalty that shouldn't had been called at that time of the game. Of course San Jose isn't Detroit and Jeremy Roeneck, Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau are not Zetterberg, Datsyuk or Franzen. Turco doesn't stand a chance, I'll give him one game in Dallas, but that is a maybe...

[Doggy 130]

...and I proved that all you Osgood haters are wrong. In the end, he will have won 3 or more Cups, possibly become the #1 all time Red Wing goalie in wins, be inducted into the Halll of Fame and see his number hanging next to OTHER Red Wing greats...

Dude, I am NOT an Osgood hater. I've said many times I love the guy.

The win stat means FA (like many of them) because obviously you'd be stupid to suggest Osgood was a better goalie over his career than Hasek, Roy or Plante. I'm not even going to consider that you think that. You're not that biased are you?

[Frozen-Man 144]

...the reason Dallas has the advantage in goal, it's simple, becuase NOBODY ANYWHERE HAS EVER GIVEN OSGOOD THE CREDIT HE DESERVES!!!! EVER!!! G.D. he is only the 15th winningest goaler of ALL-TIME. He has 2 Stanley Cups! He led the league in GAA and is leader the playoffs in GAA!!! I don't care who he played for, he deserves EVERYTHING that HE HAS DONE!!! He has already solidified he place as the #1 starter next year with his performance thus far. WHEN he wins his 3rd Cup, he will definately be Hall of Fame worthy and his #30 WILL be hung from the rafters!

...even after all that, the "EXPERTS" will still NEVER give him his credit. EVER!

Totally agree :clap:

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I really don't care what the stats are. I've watched Turco play and you clearly haven't.

There's a reason so many say Turco has been better. It's because they're unbiased.

I watched both series that Dallas played in their entirety. Turco was amazing, but you aren't giving enough credit to Ozzy. He's been nothing short of fantastic in the 6 1/2 games he has played in so far.

He is the picture of consistency, and having the best defensive team in the league in front of him doesn't help.

From you I see nothing but negativity. Do you do this so you are happier when they prevail? Or so that you can say that you told us so when they lose?

Considering that Dallas and Detroit haven't even played a game in the playoffs yet, it is really impossible to say which goalie has been better.

The point that I was making previously was that the only thing we can go by is stats until they meet on the ice. After that happens, you are welcome to pass as much judgement as you like.

I stand by my team live or die. I support them win or lose.

[Doggy 130]

I watched both series that Dallas played in their entirety. Turco was amazing, but you aren't giving enough credit to Ozzy. He's been nothing short of fantastic in the 6 1/2 games he has played in so far.

He is the picture of consistency, and having the best defensive team in the league in front of him doesn't help.

From you I see nothing but negativity. Do you do this so you are happier when they prevail? Or so that you can say that you told us so when they lose?

Considering that Dallas and Detroit haven't even played a game in the playoffs yet, it is really impossible to say which goalie has been better.

The point that I was making previously was that the only thing we can go by is stats until they meet on the ice. After that happens, you are welcome to pass as much judgement as you like.

I stand by my team live or die. I support them win or lose.

Brother, if we all just went on games against Detroit, we'd all say Turco is the world's worst goalie.

I wasn't intending to be negative, I was just saying Turco is a better goalie than Osgood. Then people had a go at me for saying it so I defended my opinion.

It seems that it's blasphemy to suggest that any goalie is better than Osgood. I couldn't give a s***. Ozzie's an awesome guy, plenty of love for him, but gees he's not the greatest goalie ever okay? He's good. Relax now.

[akustyk 84]

Brother, if we all just went on games against Detroit, we'd all say Turco is the world's worst goalie.

I wasn't intending to be negative, I was just saying Turco is a better goalie than Osgood. Then people had a go at me for saying it so I defended my opinion.

It seems that it's blasphemy to suggest that any goalie is better than Osgood. I couldn't give a s***. Ozzie's an awesome guy, plenty of love for him, but gees he's not the greatest goalie ever okay? He's good. Relax now.

I think you're wasting your time trying to prove you're not an elephant

to people who obviously will crucify you for every single word which

doesn't say Wings are the best and every single player (including Lilja)

is second coming of Gordie Howe.

leave it. I know you're right, some other ppl who have brains also do know.

don't bother about fanboys who only see what they want to see

[hockeysattva 8]

On the one hand,Osgood has been denied credit in the past. But, he has also failed to achieve greatness.

Vernon was called upon, and Vernon delivered... not my job to say whether or not that was the right call at the time.

What I do have to add to this love fest is that there seems to be some misconceptions about how good this team is and what it takes to win a cup.

Someone said the at Ozzie would get at least one more cup in the next three seasons as though it were guaranteed. Maybe you don't remember what happened when they had the most points ever...

Anyway, 15 years in the league and Dallas Drake is getting to the conference finals for a second time.

When Drake, Cheveldae, and a defenseman were traded Detroit got Bob Essensa. Osgood ended up starting in the playoffs because Essensa finished the season poorly.

93-94

GP W L MIN GA SO GAA

6 3 2 307 12 2 2.35

In 94-95 they had Vernon and he got swept in the finals by the Devils

95-95 he played well, but ...

GP W L MIN GA SO GAA

15 8 7 936 33 2 2.12

96-97 Vernon won the cup after Osgood dominated during the season

GP W L MIN GA SO GAA

2 0 0 47 2 0 2.55

97-98 Osgood earned it

GP W L MIN GA SO GAA

22 16 6 1381 48 2 2.12

99-2001 Osgood had moment of brilliance and times when he was outshined by Manny Legace IMO.

Hasek won the cup in 2002, and Osgood was no longer on the team... if he was (heck, just about any goalie in the league would have been able to win a cup 2002 wings) we wouldn't have been as good as Hasek, Hasek was stellar.

Anyway, Osgood is a good net-minder, but this is only his third run to the conference finals, and Osgood has lost in the Game 7's he played in. To compare him with other goal-tenders who have stolen a series is ludicrous, ....

I have no doubts that he will go to the Hall of Fame and I expect it will be on a first ballot, but saying he didn't get credit because the greatest coach ever went with a vetran in 97, or the league best in 2002 ain't gonna cut it.