Pens fan here...first post. NO SMACK!

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

After the Rags and Cryers, it's kinda strange to go to another team's board and read actual intelligent hockey discussion. I can't say I've seen more than a handful of Wings' games, so it's good to get a sense of what we might expect in the finals (should it match up that way of course ). Accordingly, I thought I'd add a few takes from a Pens' fan perspective in response to some previous posts.

1) Detroit will clearly be favored. Let's get that out of the way first. Too much talent and experience, top to bottom.

2) Detroit rolls 4 lines that score, but we are hardly a 2-line team offensively. 3 and 4 have come up with big goals at big times. They aren't called upon to score much, but they are outstanding in their roles. This is especially true of Jordan Staal, who may just be the best shut down center of the playoffs thus far.

3) The Pens style of play is extremely adaptable. We know we can't skate free against the Wings, but our dump and chase game is solid when we have to play it. All top 6 forwards are grinders; our stars have great hands, grit, and possession games.

4) The poster that suggested Sid and Geno get much of their production from cherry picking was just plain wrong. The discipline and defensive play of our forwards could be the single biggest reason for our playoff success so far. We have no Selke candidates, but they hardly suck defensively and Hossa is the best back checker I've seen since a guy that used to wear #66 for us a few years back.

5) You've only begun to see the chemistry building with the late addition of Hossa and Dupuis. You could never expect results just by throwing snipers out there with Sid - he needs certain kind of in-your-face players, and now we've got them. The PP has changed too, including Malkin at the point and he double-shifts with the 2nd unit on the half-board.

6) Our team face offs absolutely suck. However, few realize that it's mostly due to Malkin's abysmal sub-40%. Staal is 51%, Sid 49%, and Talbot/Hall are very capable. Therrien has become very good at protecting Malkin situationally, which explains why the stat sheet has not translated to the W-L record in that department.

7) Players who are better than you think:

-Gonchar has become a complete D-man this season and the notion that he couldn't crack your top 4 is ridiculous. He's a top 5 D-man league-wide.

-Gill is, indeed, a pylon. However, Fleury's crease used to be chaotic before Gill's arrival and now it's clean. He's improved our already solid PK greatly, plays great in his own zone, gets the required help, and has great hands.

8) X-factors:

-Our ice sucks. It tends to neutralize our speed, but we still play unbeatable at home. Better ice on the road has actually been a blessing and will hopefully help mitigate the Wings' advantage there. That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans.

-I think the Pens have had to overcome better goaltending to get this far after facing Lundqvist and Biron. Turco was great in the 1st 2 rounds but, let's face it, that guy didn't show for your series - nor did the whole Stars team for that matter. They couldn't hit a soccer goal if they were allowed to throw the puck at it.

Should be a great series and thanks for giving us our props. The pathetic Rags and Cyers fans all predicted sweeps for their teams. I'm almost dissappointed you aren't doing the same.

(Note: future posts will be much shorter)

[Xitium 272]

Dr Rosenrosen, great first post, and welcome.

The JLA is much louder in person than it is over the air on games. I'm not sure if it is just that the JLA isn't mic'd up as well as other arenas, but it still gets damn crazy in there. Yeah there are some missing seats in the lower bowl, but other than that, its SRO.

We have our own pilons and defensive liabilities, I can't wait to see these two teams get down and play. I haven't had much of a chance to see Pens games, other than this years playoffs.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Welcome RussianMalkin.

Today on the local sports talk radio station, I heard that a 2008 Detroit-Pens Final maybe similar to the 1983 Edmonton-NYI Finals. Edmonton was taken to school by the Islanders, before they went all the way in 1984. I don't disagree.

Also I heard, on the same station, that the Pens last night were playing the trap against Philly. I'm wondering, and it was being discussed on air, that the Pens maybe getting ready to play the Wings that way. I didn't see the Pens-Flyers game last night so I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Pens change their game against Detroit.

In Game 3 of the Wings-Stars on CBC, it was mentioned by Glen Healy that Dallas shouldn't be trading chances with the Wings. Dallas instead should have been trying to limit Detroit's chances, because the Wings convert on their chances, and Dallas, not as much. Maybe the Pens heard/noticed that too?

I think the reason we were clogging up the neutral zone last night was to exploit a Flyers weakness with a lead. Without Timonen and Coburn, the Flyers' forwards had zero support and Therrien decided to keep them frustrated trying to gain the zone. I'm not sure how we'd play the Wings, but the Pens are a much more disciplined team than they get credit for so I wouldn't be surprised by a low scoring series.

[Superman54 91]

After the Rags and Cryers, it's kinda strange to go to another team's board and read actual intelligent hockey discussion. I can't say I've seen more than a handful of Wings' games, so it's good to get a sense of what we might expect in the finals (should it match up that way of course ). Accordingly, I thought I'd add a few takes from a Pens' fan perspective in response to some previous posts.

1) Detroit will clearly be favored. Let's get that out of the way first. Too much talent and experience, top to bottom.

2) Detroit rolls 4 lines that score, but we are hardly a 2-line team offensively. 3 and 4 have come up with big goals at big times. They aren't called upon to score much, but they are outstanding in their roles. This is especially true of Jordan Staal, who may just be the best shut down center of the playoffs thus far.

3) The Pens style of play is extremely adaptable. We know we can't skate free against the Wings, but our dump and chase game is solid when we have to play it. All top 6 forwards are grinders; our stars have great hands, grit, and possession games.

4) The poster that suggested Sid and Geno get much of their production from cherry picking was just plain wrong. The discipline and defensive play of our forwards could be the single biggest reason for our playoff success so far. We have no Selke candidates, but they hardly suck defensively and Hossa is the best back checker I've seen since a guy that used to wear #66 for us a few years back.

5) You've only begun to see the chemistry building with the late addition of Hossa and Dupuis. You could never expect results just by throwing snipers out there with Sid - he needs certain kind of in-your-face players, and now we've got them. The PP has changed too, including Malkin at the point and he double-shifts with the 2nd unit on the half-board.

6) Our team face offs absolutely suck. However, few realize that it's mostly due to Malkin's abysmal sub-40%. Staal is 51%, Sid 49%, and Talbot/Hall are very capable. Therrien has become very good at protecting Malkin situationally, which explains why the stat sheet has not translated to the W-L record in that department.

7) Players who are better than you think:

-Gonchar has become a complete D-man this season and the notion that he couldn't crack your top 4 is ridiculous. He's a top 5 D-man league-wide.

-Gill is, indeed, a pylon. However, Fleury's crease used to be chaotic before Gill's arrival and now it's clean. He's improved our already solid PK greatly, plays great in his own zone, gets the required help, and has great hands.

8) X-factors:

-Our ice sucks. It tends to neutralize our speed, but we still play unbeatable at home. Better ice on the road has actually been a blessing and will hopefully help mitigate the Wings' advantage there. That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans.

-I think the Pens have had to overcome better goaltending to get this far after facing Lundqvist and Biron. Turco was great in the 1st 2 rounds but, let's face it, that guy didn't show for your series - nor did the whole Stars team for that matter. They couldn't hit a soccer goal if they were allowed to throw the puck at it.

Should be a great series and thanks for giving us our props. The pathetic Rags and Cyers fans all predicted sweeps for their teams. I'm almost dissappointed you aren't doing the same.

(Note: future posts will be much shorter)

Sorry but saying Staal may be the best shut down center in the playoffs over Z-Dawg is, lets say, pathetic. Id even take the former selke winner Draper over Staal. How did Arnott play, or Sakic, or Morrow, or Reberio. Sure Lids was out but please.....Staal?

[Superman54 91]

And if u think Gill can stop Holmstrom from crashing the net, you got another thing coming

[Barrie 900]

That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans.

Oh really? There's a pre-sale going on for Stanley Cup Finals tickets at redwingsworld.com, and I've heard they're going fast.

And to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, whatever, Xitium's comments about the tv mics at The Joe. Don't be fooled by tv, the place has been rocking all playoffs, and the Wings, just like the Pens, are unbeaten at home.

[Reds4Life 51]

Gonchar is a top5 dman in the league?

Thanks for the laugh.

Yes, he probably is top5 offensively, but overall or defensively?

No way.

Pens are great team and will most likely own the East for years to come. This is the most stacked team they will be able to put together since many of their key players will demand huge payrise.

But still, I belive Red Wings are capable of shutting your best players down and exploit your D.

I do not expect one sided series by any means, but I say Wings in 6.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Wings won't be favored.

[Rice 42]

-Gonchar has become a complete D-man this season and the notion that he couldn't crack your top 4 is ridiculous. He's a top 5 D-man league-wide.

Thanks for the post and welcome to the boards, but I have to argue with you on this point. Gonchar is not a top five defenseman in the NHL. I would say the following players are better than him: Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer, Phaneuf, Chara, Zubov, Rafalski and Markov...and that's just off the top of my head. Plus, Kronwall has really become a great defenseman. Babcock even said Kronwall has been the Wings' best defenseman through the playoffs. While I disagree (Lidstrom has been), that is a huge compliment. Gonchar would be the Wings number four.

Look at Ottawa last year. They blew through the East and everyone was talking about how great the pizza line was -- then Anaheim rolled them with a superior defensive game. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it's a testament to the Western Conference's style of play.

Edited May 14, 2008 by ARice89

[CrossoverThrash 0]

After the Rags and Cryers, it's kinda strange to go to another team's board and read actual intelligent hockey discussion. I can't say I've seen more than a handful of Wings' games, so it's good to get a sense of what we might expect in the finals (should it match up that way of course ). Accordingly, I thought I'd add a few takes from a Pens' fan perspective in response to some previous posts.

1) Detroit will clearly be favored. Let's get that out of the way first. Too much talent and experience, top to bottom.

2) Detroit rolls 4 lines that score, but we are hardly a 2-line team offensively. 3 and 4 have come up with big goals at big times. They aren't called upon to score much, but they are outstanding in their roles. This is especially true of Jordan Staal, who may just be the best shut down center of the playoffs thus far.

3) The Pens style of play is extremely adaptable. We know we can't skate free against the Wings, but our dump and chase game is solid when we have to play it. All top 6 forwards are grinders; our stars have great hands, grit, and possession games.

4) The poster that suggested Sid and Geno get much of their production from cherry picking was just plain wrong. The discipline and defensive play of our forwards could be the single biggest reason for our playoff success so far. We have no Selke candidates, but they hardly suck defensively and Hossa is the best back checker I've seen since a guy that used to wear #66 for us a few years back.

5) You've only begun to see the chemistry building with the late addition of Hossa and Dupuis. You could never expect results just by throwing snipers out there with Sid - he needs certain kind of in-your-face players, and now we've got them. The PP has changed too, including Malkin at the point and he double-shifts with the 2nd unit on the half-board.

6) Our team face offs absolutely suck. However, few realize that it's mostly due to Malkin's abysmal sub-40%. Staal is 51%, Sid 49%, and Talbot/Hall are very capable. Therrien has become very good at protecting Malkin situationally, which explains why the stat sheet has not translated to the W-L record in that department.

7) Players who are better than you think:

-Gonchar has become a complete D-man this season and the notion that he couldn't crack your top 4 is ridiculous. He's a top 5 D-man league-wide.

-Gill is, indeed, a pylon. However, Fleury's crease used to be chaotic before Gill's arrival and now it's clean. He's improved our already solid PK greatly, plays great in his own zone, gets the required help, and has great hands.

8) X-factors:

-Our ice sucks. It tends to neutralize our speed, but we still play unbeatable at home. Better ice on the road has actually been a blessing and will hopefully help mitigate the Wings' advantage there. That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans.

-I think the Pens have had to overcome better goaltending to get this far after facing Lundqvist and Biron. Turco was great in the 1st 2 rounds but, let's face it, that guy didn't show for your series - nor did the whole Stars team for that matter. They couldn't hit a soccer goal if they were allowed to throw the puck at it.

Should be a great series and thanks for giving us our props. The pathetic Rags and Cyers fans all predicted sweeps for their teams. I'm almost dissappointed you aren't doing the same.

(Note: future posts will be much shorter)

Agree with most of it but hal gill has to be absolutely the worst player in the league surely its whitney or scuderi or someone else clearing the netmouth, i did see letang throw the body on someone in one game to clear the net regardless they will have their hands full with homer and theres no way its going ot be gill clearing him away, gill is an intimidator and thats it once the players realize he's there to just deke around they become much more comfortable.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Wings won't be favored.

By who? The Refs?

BTW, yes they will.

[Reds4Life 51]

BTW, yes they will.

I agree. Bookmakers will definitely favour the Wings.

Current odds is 1.50 for Wings to win the Cup (you bet 10 bucks and get 15 )

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

aren't the Penguins an AHL team?

[Matt 1,048]

...That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans...

If you believe that you're a ******* moron. (No offense.)

[HkyTwn 5]

Even if it looks like an awful home crowd (I can understand opposing fans saying that), we can't get those tickets. Almost every seat is sold out unless you want to shell out an entire paycheck. (A paycheck for me, being a college student).

I think you have a lot of good points there about your team and it's really interesting to hear it from an opposing team, but I don't think Gonchar is top 5. He's good, I'm not downing him at all, because I admire his style of play, but I don't think he's top 5 at all. He's good though.

I don't know if you watch western conference games or not, but every opposing arena is infected heavily with Wings fans when we play away. I'm sure yours won't be any different, but it's weird and different out east. I just hope (for the good Pens' fans sake) that we don't get a bunch of the bandwagon Pens fans around. They have been popping up like weeds around Ohio and it's driving me insane. The worst part is most of them don't know beans about hockey. I'm not saying that none of your fans do--Pens fans are great...bandwagon fans for every team suck, but this year it has been on overdrive.

Enjoy your stay on LGW and I hope you stick around after the series, whatever the outcome.

[StayStevieStay 0]

I love how all these fans on other teams underestimate our D. Sorry but the Pens top line will be rendered useless and you will find that out right away. Our team defence is too strong and you guys look like you can barely beat the Flyers who are missing Timmonen and Coburn.(Top 2 D) (I say barely because those games arn't anywhere near dominating blowouts and are still rather close) LOL Hatcher on who? Malkin? LOL Man... you guys are in for a rude awakening.

[deker 0]

2) Detroit rolls 4 lines that score, but we are hardly a 2-line team offensively. 3 and 4 have come up with big goals at big times. They aren't called upon to score much, but they are outstanding in their roles. This is especially true of Jordan Staal, who may just be the best shut down center of the playoffs thus far.

During one of the intermissions of the WCF games, the TSN analysts were attempting to compare Staal's play with that of Bob Gainey. While I (and most of the analysts) found that a bit of a reach (let's wait a number of years before you can even think about comparisons to Gainey), just the fact that they brought that up speaks volumes about Staal's shutdown ability.

3) The Pens style of play is extremely adaptable. We know we can't skate free against the Wings, but our dump and chase game is solid when we have to play it. All top 6 forwards are grinders; our stars have great hands, grit, and possession games.

I think both teams are oversimplified as being "skill teams" by analysts everywhere. Neither would be where they are now if they were so "one-dimensional."

6) Our team face offs absolutely suck. However, few realize that it's mostly due to Malkin's abysmal sub-40%. Staal is 51%, Sid 49%, and Talbot/Hall are very capable. Therrien has become very good at protecting Malkin situationally, which explains why the stat sheet has not translated to the W-L record in that department.

Faceoffs definitely are a strength of ours, especially with guys like Draper. He's at 63%, Datsyuk 58%, Zetterberg 54%, Filppulla 53% and even the Mule's at 50%.

-Gonchar has become a complete D-man this season and the notion that he couldn't crack your top 4 is ridiculous. He's a top 5 D-man league-wide.

Somebody actually said Gonchar wouldn't crack our top 4??!?! I'd take him any day!

-Gill is, indeed, a pylon. However, Fleury's crease used to be chaotic before Gill's arrival and now it's clean. He's improved our already solid PK greatly, plays great in his own zone, gets the required help, and has great hands.

Gill vs. Holmstrom, Franzen or Cleary...I would want an iso-cam just at the front of the net to watch those battles. That will be fun to watch!

-Our ice sucks. It tends to neutralize our speed, but we still play unbeatable at home. Better ice on the road has actually been a blessing and will hopefully help mitigate the Wings' advantage there. That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans.

Ummm....do not mistake the empty seats as a means for Penguin fans to obtain tickets. The games are soldout, but sadly, the lower bowl expensive seats are owned by companies that for some reason aren't using them actively. I do suspect, though, that they will be used because sales people sure love to impress their clients with a championship sporting events. What you don't see on TV much is that the upper bowl "cheaper" seats are filled.

-I think the Pens have had to overcome better goaltending to get this far after facing Lundqvist and Biron. Turco was great in the 1st 2 rounds but, let's face it, that guy didn't show for your series - nor did the whole Stars team for that matter. They couldn't hit a soccer goal if they were allowed to throw the puck at it.

I would also say the same thing for Biron. The guy that stoned Montreal is nowhere to be found in this round, nor is the Flyer team that was so damn opportunistic against the Habs. The Penguins certainly have something to do with that, but still...

Anyhow, our teams both still have series to close out. Hopefully we do our part tonight and you do yours tomorrow, then we can have at it officially!

Awesome user ID, by the way!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

If you believe that you're a ******* moron. (No offense.)

:rotflmao:

Way to follow that up by making the comment PC!

[Reds4Life 51]

If you believe that you're a ******* moron. (No offense.)

Gold. Pure gold

[Superman54 91]

Just wait for the OZZIE chant, always gives me the shivers

[Matt 1,048]

:rotflmao:

Way to follow that up by making the comment PC!

Just following his lead. It's amusing what people will spout off and then follow up with "uh, no offense" as some form a cover. Seriously though, this guy just slapped the fans here in the face (like the people that post here DON'T go to the games?) and expects nothing back?

The first Penguins fans to filter in here have been pretty amusing so far. I understand they're all bubbly about their team and all -- and there has been plenty of reasons to be so during their first three series -- but, man...

...as I said earlier in the thread:

School starts next week for the young Penguins. Don't forget your notepads!

[Graybeard 0]

"Coolio....HAving a rah-rah guy in the locker room that has to keep the kids heads on straight is over-rated. "

That statement right there speaks volumes. Having strong leadership is a hell of a lot more than being a rah-rah guy. It's more about watch me pry my broken knees off the ice and try to keep up. Detroit has it in spades and when games get tough, it's a huge difference maker. It's one of the intangibles you can't quantify with a stat but poo poo it at your own peril.

[T-Ruff 47]

BTW, yes they will.

I'm not so sure about that, at least from my experience with the Canadian (TSN) media these playoffs....

Round 1 it was: "If any team is gonna pull off an upset it's the Nashville Predators."

Round 2 it was: "Avs in 6, they made great additions towards the end of the season and Theodore is playing the best hockey of his life."

Round 3: "The Wings beat an 8th seed team losing only a few games that Hasek played mediocre in, and then walked over the injury riddled Avalanche. The Stars however, beat two of the Stanley Cup favourites in the Ducks and Sharks. Meanwhile, Turco is hungry and has been the best goalie in the playoffs, his record against Detroit is no longer relevant for this series."

Given how much attention and praise the Penguins and Crosby and Malkin get, if both teams pull out of their series as expected, I expect to hear something like this:

"The Wings had an easy first 2 round vs the Predators and injured Avalanche, and the Stars and Turco were too burnt out after going 6 games with the big, powerul Ducks and Sharks with the quadruple overtime game. While the Penguins did beat a struggling/injured Sens team and an injured Flyers team, overall the Penguins have had a more difficult path to the Finals."

I could be wrong but it seems to me that the pattern will continue.....(especially considering that its the Penguins)

on an unrelated note, after having read this entire thread and 9 pages of Detroit talk on the Pens boards, I'm extremely pumped for this (probable) matchup.....

EDIT: grammar

Edited May 14, 2008 by T-Ruff

[Superman54 91]

This guy also said having better defense is not THAT big of an edge, You can tell right away he has been watching Eastren Conferance Hockey. So lets see hear, Leadership and Defensemen are over-rated........yep, its defaintly a Pens fan! Im sorry if I am being abit mean.....But this is for the most prized trophy in all of sports, so I refuse to make friends with anyone on the opposing team until the playoffs are written in stone. GAME FACE

[Matt 1,048]

Honestly, it would've been better for the Penguins to have had faced some form of adversity earlier in their playoff run, just so they know how -- as a team -- to respond to it. It's come all to easy so far for this team and it's going to be a harsh reality check in the final.

I'm not making any predictions until the Conference Finals have officially concluded, but it's highly possible (probable) that the Final could be over before the Penguins realize what hit them. Starting on the road for the first time... potentially playing a team that hasn't lost there... actually in the Cup Final and the overwhelming experiece is when you're there for the first time.... then the first time trailing in a series...

I'm sure that comes off as excessively arrogant, but there has been something special coming together for this Red Wings team over the last couple of weeks and who am I to stand back and not be a believer?