Pens fan here...first post. NO SMACK!

[isbister 0]

Well...if you go win the Cup....you will do so stopping 2 of the 3 best players in the world. Crosby-Malkin and Ovechkin..you mix up who goes where.

Listen here.... Crosby is the poster boy of the NHL which in no way is a bad thing, brings viewers. Don't get caught up in all that 3 best players in the league crap though. Lidstrom is the best player in the league by a long shot and has been said so by many great players. ( Forsberg, Shanny and any player thats ever had to play against him) In saying that, Datsyuk is a better creator than anyone in your list and can't be shut down by any D-man the Pens have. Crosby gets all the publisity but don't believe everything you hear from "the experts". Pav and Hank score at will and play top notch in there D end as well. Why don't they get the press? I Don't Know!!! Who cares though? There is nothing better than The Pens meeting The Wings in the finals because it may be whats needed for Pav and Hank to be seen by all. Crosby And Malkin will be contained and Pav and Hank will not. If I'm wrong about this I apologize, but thats the beauty about what were about to witness.

[gordie_howe 0]

Talk about counting your chickens before they've hatched....

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

Yeah... call me superstitious, but each current series is 3-1. All this premature talk about the cup finals being Wings/Pens is making me nervous, don't want to jinx either team, but let's get that 4th win first, then debate who's stacking up against who else in the finals. Except for the whole Defense thing, the Wings D has been god on skates for as long as I can remember. No debate at all, the Wings are superior on defense, no doubt about it.

[gordie_howe 0]

Talk about counting your chickens before they've hatched....

[MississippiWing 14]

I think we all have to realize that us as well as the Wings team disrespected Dallas.We all just expected Dallas to layover and die and give us the win because we are the Wings. I sure as hell hope they have some respect for them now then come out and crush the ever living hell out of them in the next game.

[DYags 0]

I think we all have to realize that us as well as the Wings team disrespected Dallas.We all just expected Dallas to layover and die and give us the win because we are the Wings. I sure as hell hope they have some respect for them now then come out and crush the ever living hell out of them in the next game.

Good foresite.. I never posted on this because I though it was just wrong.. looks like I've been proved right (was hopin I'd be wrong)

[RedFX 48]

I believe I said after Game 3 when everyone was discussing a Wings/Pens final.....

I don't know why everyone is jumping the gun here. Again, until we win our 4th game, Dallas has as much chance to win the series as we do.....Dallas isn't going to roll over, so we need to play the exact same way we played in the last few games.

Sorry this is my first time back here in a couple of days, so sorry if I repeat some stuff.

For some reason, Detroit just has not looked like Detroit in the previous games. We've played extremely sloppy and have made more avoidable mistakes in the last two games then I've seen in the entire season. Both goals against the last game were basically gift-wrapped because someone was out of position or was playing too casual.

[DaKineMaui 8]

delete this thread, it's terrible karma for sure

I wanna see a game 7.

[motorcitykid 42]

Ours does more than that.

Smile Nick!!

Marian Hossa only THINKS he's a playoff performer ... I think we all know his previous resume. Zzzzzzzzz.

And I just can't take anyone serious who says Datsyuk and Zetterberg are NOT the best 2-way, most dominant players in the league.

[Pens12x 0]

I was just going to say, on paper it's not even close (knock on wood); Gonchar would be Detroit's number four. However, the Penguins do play impressive team defense -- more impressive than they get credit for, IMO. People seem to think they are all offense but from what I have seen that's not the case. Overall though, I don't think there's a team in the league that can match Detroit's defensemen or their forwards' dedication to defense.

Come on. Gonchar Detroit's number 4 defenseman? Please. Take off the red blinders. Rafalski is good. Kronwall is decent too. But neither were talked about in connection with the Norris trophy this year. Gonchar wasn't plus 14 for no reason this year. Ask anyone in the league who, age and salary aside, whether they'd rather have Gonchar, Rafalski or Kronwall and all would choose Gonchar.

[timothy1997 0]

Come on. Gonchar Detroit's number 4 defenseman? Please. Take off the red blinders. Rafalski is good. Kronwall is decent too. But neither were talked about in connection with the Norris trophy this year. Gonchar wasn't plus 14 for no reason this year. Ask anyone in the league who, age and salary aside, whether they'd rather have Gonchar, Rafalski or Kronwall and all would choose Gonchar.

Gonchar is a good D-men. I wouldn't say that he is #4 on Detroit's D, but I still would take Lidstrom and Rafalski over Gonchar. Rafalski fits the red wings more than Gonchar would.

[VaPensFan 0]

Ridiculous.

So Crosby/Malkin/Hossa are MUCH better than Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Franzen

hmm..me looks at playoff leading scorers..you are wrong.

They are not MUCH better.

Besides, we have more than 3 forwards, you know.

Thanks for giving our D some credit. I love how you immedietaly add "don't underestimate the Penguins", but you still have MUCH better offense, right.

You are pretty naive if you think Nick Lidstrom and co. will allow your tic-tac-toe passing.

Goalies..yes, underestimate Ozzie, that's when he is the best.

Thank you, Wings in 5.

When looking at the scoring leaders, you need to take into account that the Penguins have played 2 fewer games.

The penguins defense has been great this post season. Pens have given up 24 goals to the Wings 30. To normalize this, add MAF's 1.7 GAA * 2 so give the pens 27.4 to the Wings 30. I see a lot of people way under estimating the Penguins defense. there were times in the Previous games when the Pens had the lead that they did not give up a single Scoring chance in the final 18 minutes or so of the game.

On special teams, PKing is a dead even tie between the two teams and the Pens have the edge in PP% 24.6 to 21.

If you have watched the pens recently, they are not relying on tic-tac-toe passing in these playoffs. Everyone knows those kinds of plays are not always there in the post season.

I do think the Pens need to quickly adjust to the speed of the Red Wings... they are coming off of facing a much slower Flyers team, but the Pens are young and I don't think that will be a problem.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

When looking at the scoring leaders, you need to take into account that the Penguins have played 2 fewer games.

The penguins defense has been great this post season. Pens have given up 24 goals to the Wings 30. To normalize this, add MAF's 1.7 GAA * 2 so give the pens 27.4 to the Wings 30. I see a lot of people way under estimating the Penguins defense. there were times in the Previous games when the Pens had the lead that they did not give up a single Scoring chance in the final 18 minutes or so of the game.

On special teams, PKing is a dead even tie between the two teams and the Pens have the edge in PP% 24.6 to 21.

If you have watched the pens recently, they are not relying on tic-tac-toe passing in these playoffs. Everyone knows those kinds of plays are not always there in the post season.

I do think the Pens need to quickly adjust to the speed of the Red Wings... they are coming off of facing a much slower Flyers team, but the Pens are young and I don't think that will be a problem.

i think everyone is forgetting something. the pens played in the east....enough said.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

And bumped, for comedy.

[Kcjacoby 10]

Remember... no smack talking... *cough cough*

[reggiedunlop 0]

I was just going to say, on paper it's not even close (knock on wood); Gonchar would be Detroit's number four. However, the Penguins do play impressive team defense -- more impressive than they get credit for, IMO. People seem to think they are all offense but from what I have seen that's not the case. Overall though, I don't think there's a team in the league that can match Detroit's defensemen or their forwards' dedication to defense.

just want to make sure i got this right. the second leading scorer among defensemen with a plus minus of +13, would be the number 4 dman on your team?

Edited May 20, 2008 by reggiedunlop

[Ladsud2002 0]

just want to make sure i got this right. the second leading scorer among defensemen with a plus minus of +13, would be the number 4 dman on your team?

Lidstrom +40 , Rafalski +27, kronwall +25. Kronwall still leads defensemean in scoring in the postseason and im sure no one comes close to him in open ice hits.

[liloz 0]

Come on. Gonchar Detroit's number 4 defenseman? Please. Take off the red blinders. Rafalski is good. Kronwall is decent too. But neither were talked about in connection with the Norris trophy this year. Gonchar wasn't plus 14 for no reason this year. Ask anyone in the league who, age and salary aside, whether they'd rather have Gonchar, Rafalski or Kronwall and all would choose Gonchar.

Rafalski was a plus 27 this year and Gonchar was plus 13. Career stat Rafalski is +127 Gonchar is +52. Gonchar has more points to be sure, but quite frankly I would rather my defensemen have a better plus minus than more points. I would take Rafalski anyday....

Not to mention the Stanley Cup RingS he owns.....

[reggiedunlop 0]

Rafalski was a plus 27 this year and Gonchar was plus 13. Career stat Rafalski is +127 Gonchar is +52. Gonchar has more points to be sure, but quite frankly I would rather my defensemen have a better plus minus than more points. I would take Rafalski anyday....

Not to mention the Stanley Cup RingS he owns.....

throw career stats out the window....... gonchar had to play most of his career in washington...... so its not a fair comparison ha ha. the man quarterbacks a lethel power play though. i would like him to be more physical but its to late to change that i guess

[liloz 0]

throw career stats out the window....... gonchar had to play most of his career in washington...... so its not a fair comparison ha ha. the man quarterbacks a lethel power play though. i would like him to be more physical but its to late to change that i guess

Washington has had good teams. They made to the finals in 98. Granted we KILLED them in 4 games, BUT they made it.....

[liloz 0]

When looking at the scoring leaders, you need to take into account that the Penguins have played 2 fewer games.

The penguins defense has been great this post season. Pens have given up 24 goals to the Wings 30. To normalize this, add MAF's 1.7 GAA * 2 so give the pens 27.4 to the Wings 30. I see a lot of people way under estimating the Penguins defense. there were times in the Previous games when the Pens had the lead that they did not give up a single Scoring chance in the final 18 minutes or so of the game.

On special teams, PKing is a dead even tie between the two teams and the Pens have the edge in PP% 24.6 to 21.

If you have watched the pens recently, they are not relying on tic-tac-toe passing in these playoffs. Everyone knows those kinds of plays are not always there in the post season.

I do think the Pens need to quickly adjust to the speed of the Red Wings... they are coming off of facing a much slower Flyers team, but the Pens are young and I don't think that will be a problem.

When looking at the scoring leaders keep in mind that the current goal scoring leader hasn't played in what 5 games??? Malkin and Crosby, being the 2nd coming according to all Pen's fans, can't catch a guy who wasn 't on ANYONE'S radar as a goal scorer before the playoffs started in those 5 games??? And you wonder why we aren't impressed with the "2 best players" in the NHL.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

i think everyone is forgetting something. the pens played in the east....enough said.

That's some extremely insightful analysis on your part. Way to break it down.

The Pens were 8-1-1 against the West, a schedule that included every West playoff team except the Wings and Preds. 3 of the wins came in succession on the Western Canada road trip. Next...

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Rafalski was a plus 27 this year and Gonchar was plus 13. Career stat Rafalski is +127 Gonchar is +52. Gonchar has more points to be sure, but quite frankly I would rather my defensemen have a better plus minus than more points. I would take Rafalski anyday....

Not to mention the Stanley Cup RingS he owns.....

OK. Let's switch it up. Let's pair Gonchar with Lidstrom and Rafalski with "stiff of the month" and see how those numbers reverse.

[betterREDthandead 58]

OK. Let's switch it up. Let's pair Gonchar with Lidstrom and Rafalski with "stiff of the month" and see how those numbers reverse.

Are you saying that Gonchar has been paired with complete stiffs his whole time as a Penguin?

If so, then the debate is moot - it doesn't matter if Gonchar is better than Rafalski or not, because if the other five really are pylons, then they're going to be steamrolled.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

When looking at the scoring leaders keep in mind that the current goal scoring leader hasn't played in what 5 games??? Malkin and Crosby, being the 2nd coming according to all Pen's fans, can't catch a guy who wasn 't on ANYONE'S radar as a goal scorer before the playoffs started in those 5 games??? And you wonder why we aren't impressed with the "2 best players" in the NHL.

You're absolutely right. Personally, I think the individual playoff goal scoring stats are somewhat overrated. Further, the Pens' have many puck bunny fans who tend to get a little hyper-focused on Sid/Geno. This team is so much more and all the elements have come together at just the right time including, but not limited to...

1-Gonchar realized the "D" stands for Defenseman and not "Dude That Scores Goals."

2-Fleury found a mentor in Ty Conklin and confidence.

3-Letang and Kennedy became solid NHLers very quickly.

4-Ryan Malone finally figured it all out.

5-The team bought into a D-first mentalilty even without the greatest individual D-men in the league.

6-Shero found 2 wingers for Sid that play his style, one being a top scorer and the best back checking forward I've seen since a guy who wore #66 awhile back.

7-Our Big 2 are underrated defensively because they haven't built the league-wide reputation yet.

8-19 year-old Jordan Staal became one of the best shut-down centers in the league in his 2nd year.

9-And yes, Malkin became a beast when he got to be "The Man" for awhile.

Having said all that, Detroit is better on paper and deserves to be favored (anywhere from 4/7 to 5/6 from what I've seen). I won't come to a Wings board and predict a Pens' series win. However, there are many surprises awaiting those who haven't been watching these guys advance as a complete team.