Pens fan here...first post. NO SMACK!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Just following his lead. It's amusing what people will spout off and then follow up with "uh, no offense" as some form a cover. Seriously though, this guy just slapped the fans here in the face (like the people that post here DON'T go to the games?) and expects nothing back?

The first Penguins fans to filter in here have been pretty amusing so far. I understand they're all bubbly about their team and all -- and there has been plenty of reasons to be so during their first three series -- but, man...

...as I said earlier in the thread:

School starts next week for the young Penguins. Don't forget your notepads!

I'm not even arguing with you Matt, and I couldn't agree more about the young Penguins. They have plenty to be excited about, but if they think the Wings defense isn't better than Ottawa's, New York's and Philadlephia's combined, then they're in for a rude awaking.

My favorite gem thus far is that the Wings D only gets the slight advantage due to Lidstrom. Priceless!

That being said, I do get annoyed when people come on to another teams boards and make comments that couldn't be further from the truth simply because they don't do any research (I.E. The seating situation at the Joe).

Edited May 14, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Thanks for the post and welcome to the boards, but I have to argue with you on this point. Gonchar is not a top five defenseman in the NHL. I would say the following players are better than him: Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer, Phaneuf, Chara, Zubov, Rafalski and Markov...and that's just off the top of my head. Plus, Kronwall has really become a great defenseman. Babcock even said Kronwall has been the Wings' best defenseman through the playoffs. While I disagree (Lidstrom has been), that is a huge compliment. Gonchar would be the Wings number four.

Look at Ottawa last year. They blew through the East and everyone was talking about how great the pizza line was -- then Anaheim rolled them with a superior defensive game. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it's a testament to the Western Conference's style of play.

Yea, I guess I might back off the top 5 claim, but he belongs in the conversation with those guys. Look, I used to absolutely HATE the guy because of his poor D play. But the guy has made an unbelievable turnaround this year, routinely handling the top line shutdown assignment without having much for a partner (mostly Scuderi-are you kidding?).

[Matt 1,048]

I'm not even arguing with you Matt, and I couldn't agree more about the young Penguins.

Haha, I know... I just wanted to expand on my point but I didn't want to do it in the original post because it would've spoiled the one-liner thunder.

[Graybeard 0]

This guy also said having better defense is not THAT big of an edge, You can tell right away he has been watching Eastren Conferance Hockey. So lets see hear, Leadership and Defensemen are over-rated........yep, its defaintly a Pens fan! Im sorry if I am being abit mean.....But this is for the most prized trophy in all of sports, so I refuse to make friends with anyone on the opposing team until the playoffs are written in stone. GAME FACE

Unfortunately for us, the coaches and suits in Pittsburgh's front office probably know better than their fans. Fortunately for us, it's too late to do anything about it. You can't turn a boy into a man overnight, and there defense is what it is.

On second thought, maybe their office doesn't know any better. They're the ones who put the C on a boys chest because of his physical talents instead of someone with maturity who could actually lead his team.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

Some comedy going on in here lol

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Agree with most of it but hal gill has to be absolutely the worst player in the league surely its whitney or scuderi or someone else clearing the netmouth, i did see letang throw the body on someone in one game to clear the net regardless they will have their hands full with homer and theres no way its going ot be gill clearing him away, gill is an intimidator and thats it once the players realize he's there to just deke around they become much more comfortable.

That's what I thought before we got him and he looked to prove it in the first two games (he was brutal). But since then, he's been amazing. Can't explain it. Don't want to. Just don't judge Gill and Gonchar based on prior seasons until you see them.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I'm sure that comes off as excessively arrogant, but there has been something special coming together for this Red Wings team over the last couple of weeks and who am I to stand back and not be a believer?

This has been a thoroughly special season from the get-go. We might earn some arrogance points for it, but on the other hand I'd hate to look back on a Cup season and realize I wasn't enjoying it.

[Datsyerberger 279]

That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans.

Pshaw. You will never get past our hordes of seat-claiming businessmen and their uncanny knack at buying all the front row tickets and not coming to the game. Why do you think our crowd seems so thin sometimes? Heh.

[Superman54 91]

Unfortunately for us, the coaches and suits in Pittsburgh's front office probably know better than their fans. Fortunately for us, it's too late to do anything about it. You can't turn a boy into a man overnight, and there defense is what it is.

On second thought, maybe their office doesn't know any better. They're the ones who put the C on a boys chest because of his physical talents instead of someone with maturity who could actually lead his team.

Ha, ya I still can't believe this kid is a captain...Captians don't throw a fit after getting hit to the ground and then smashing their stick against the boards after. If no ones knows what im talking about, Jason Smith hit Crosby down, and as Crosby was lying on the ice, he smashed his stick against the boards.....THIS IS HOCKEY, EXPECT TO BE HIT FOR GOD SAKES! THIS AINT BASKETBALL CROSBY! Ow ya, and Pittsburgh was winning at the time too.....Imaturity, I think so!

[Graybeard 0]

That's what I thought before we got him and he looked to prove it in the first two games (he was brutal). But since then, he's been amazing. Can't explain it. Don't want to. Just don't judge Gill and Gonchar based on prior seasons until you see them.

Amazing? But who have they been playing against? What team, besides your own, has forwards who will absolutely skate circles around these guys like Hank and Dats? The biggest offensive threat you've faced are two guys that are due for retirement with a punkass Avery as their 3rd. Our 3rd line guys are better skaters than those old timers are now.

[DraperFan MN 0]

I love how this thread has Matt all fired up...

I know why he's fired up. Those of us who have been watching Red Wings squads for a long time see championship pedigree in this team. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filpulla, Kronwall, Franzen, and Hudler have completely taken the torch and are now leading this team while some wily veterans from the previous administration (Lids, Chelios, Draper, Maltby, McCarty) oversee the transition with newcomers like Rafalski and Drake.

This team has a focus, a cohesiveness, that we have not seen since '02, and really, that was a team of superstars, a team that was supposed to win, so I would say we haven't seen a team like this since '97 and '98.

With that said, much of this could be used to describe the Pens', but only to a point. It's just not their turn right now. They aren't as deep and don't have the experience. Anyone trying to compare the Wings and Pens d-corps are sadly mistaken. The Pens have A LOT of offensive talent, but they have not faced a top four of this caliber. Hell, they haven't even faced a top two of this caliber, and while they have won, they have not dominated opposing defenses.

A championship for Detroit is not inevitable, but they are within sniffing distance....and the last three times they were within sniffing distance, well, we know what happened. It's not about fan arrogance or homerism, it's just being able to discern when a team has turned the corner, and that is exactly what the Red Wings have done.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Unfortunately for us, the coaches and suits in Pittsburgh's front office probably know better than their fans. Fortunately for us, it's too late to do anything about it. You can't turn a boy into a man overnight, and there defense is what it is.

On second thought, maybe their office doesn't know any better. They're the ones who put the C on a boys chest because of his physical talents instead of someone with maturity who could actually lead his team.

Actually, it was the players who voted. That includes Stanley Cup winners Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, and Daryl Sydor.

[DraperFan MN 0]

That's what I thought before we got him and he looked to prove it in the first two games (he was brutal). But since then, he's been amazing. Can't explain it. Don't want to. Just don't judge Gill and Gonchar based on prior seasons until you see them.

Dude, you have got to be kidding. Hal Gill? Seriously? Gonchar you can sell because of his offensive game. You can't come to these boards and expect to be taken seriously by selling us Hal Gill.

Edited May 14, 2008 by DraperFan MN

[Reds4Life 51]

Actually, it was the players who voted. That includes Stanley Cup winners Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, and Daryl Sydor.

Yeah, like they had other choice.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Amazing? But who have they been playing against? What team, besides your own, has forwards who will absolutely skate circles around these guys like Hank and Dats? The biggest offensive threat you've faced are two guys that are due for retirement with a punkass Avery as their 3rd. Our 3rd line guys are better skaters than those old timers are now.

First, Jagr was a beast in our series. Spezza and Heatley are no chumps. Nor is Richardson.

Second, I was merely defending Gill from being called the worst D-man in the league because he's been far from it and we wouldn't be 11-1 without him.

[DraperFan MN 0]

Actually, it was the players who voted. That includes Stanley Cup winners Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, and Daryl Sydor.

I didn't read all the previous posts, but I'm guessing some LGW folks are saying that Sid can't lead....well, that's BS. His team has come this far under his watch, so that is a fraudulent argument, and Wings fans should look at the history of their own franchise to know that the age someone is given the "C" is irrelevant.

Edited May 14, 2008 by DraperFan MN

[Nev 1,085]

Just wanted to add a couple more advantages that Detroit have (apart from the D-corps, face-offs, experience and Team Defence)

1) Home-ice. First 2 games at home, potential game 7 at home.....that's why you want the Presidents Trophy - for a time like this

2) Coaching. I would take Mike Babcock over absolutely ANYONE in the NHL. His intensity, his focus, his calmness, his knowledge of the game. The guy is a winner pure and simple. It is largely his doing that the Wings have been transformed the last 2 playoffs.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Dude, you have got to be kidding. Hal Gill? Seriously? Gonchar you can sell because of his offensive game. You can't come to these boards and expect to be taken seriously by selling us Hal Gill.

I, too, wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. And Gonchar now plays D too. Miracles happen every day. I would never sit here and tell you we are 11-1 in the playoffs because of 2 players.

You can flame me all you want, but I've watched every minute of every Pens game this year. If I were going to be a complete uneducated homer, I'd just become a Cryers fan.

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

I love how this thread has Matt all fired up...

I know why he's fired up. Those of us who have been watching Red Wings squads for a long time see championship pedigree in this team. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filpulla, Kronwall, Franzen, and Hudler have completely taken the torch and are now leading this team while some wily veterans from the previous administration (Lids, Chelios, Draper, Maltby, McCarty) oversee the transition with newcomers like Rafalski and Drake.

This team has a focus, a cohesiveness, that we have not seen since '02, and really, that was a team of superstars, a team that was supposed to win, so I would say we haven't seen a team like this since '97 and '98.

With that said, much of this could be used to describe the Pens', but only to a point. It's just not their turn right now. They aren't as deep and don't have the experience. Anyone trying to compare the Wings and Pens d-corps are sadly mistaken. The Pens have A LOT of offensive talent, but they have not faced a top four of this caliber. Hell, they haven't even faced a top two of this caliber, and while they have won, they have not dominated opposing defenses.

A championship for Detroit is not inevitable, but they are within sniffing distance....and the last three times they were within sniffing distance, well, we know what happened. It's not about fan arrogance or homerism, it's just being able to discern when a team has turned the corner, and that is exactly what the Red Wings have done.

Can't disagree with any of that. I'm just hoping the Giants set the trend for 2008 championships.

[SnipeShow 0]

Penguins have been playing well, guys... these pens fans aren't lying. Flyers could barely enter the zone last night, they were playing great team defense. But I still agree our blueline is in a different league than theirs... Scuderi is going to get burned, Gill will get burned. Not for lack of effort or skill, its just what the Wings do. But on the flipside, I can see Cheli - Lebda/Lilja getting scored on, on a nightly basis by the pens. Wait and see I guess.

Edited May 14, 2008 by SnipeShow

[Z and D for the C 712]

By who? The Refs?

BTW, yes they will.

I agree. Bookmakers will definitely favour the Wings.

Current odds is 1.50 for Wings to win the Cup (you bet 10 bucks and get 15 )

I was thinking more of the Media and the like. People picked the avs to win in 6, should seem that they'd expect the pens to take the series in 2 1/2 games.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Let's finish the conference finals off first

[Graybeard 0]

I didn't read all the previous posts, but I'm guessing some LGW folks are saying that Sid can't lead....well, that's BS. His team has come this far under his watch, so that is a fraudulent argument, and Wings fans should look at the history of their own franchise to know that the age someone is given the "C" is irrelevant.

It's not about age. Yzerman was a more level headed mature player from day one. I'n not even saying it's Sid's fault. Who on this planet could be put on a pedestal by the NHL and the press and not have it go to their head. Maybe he's a better leader in the locker room than on the ice, but what we see as spectators isn't all that impressive in the leadership department. The fact that you even brought up Yzerman amazes me. As if there was any comparison whatsoever.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Graybeard

[LeftWinger 4,963]

This is where I have to put in my input....

I feel that the Pens have never had to face a line that was both a total SHUTDOWN D line and also the Top Scoring line as well.

Add to that our depth lines are adding much needed grit and offense and Im liking the Wings chances

...exactly, Dallas coach said it best last press conference, "It's hard to match their top scoring line when you realize that it is their checking line your are trying to match."

...so who do you put out there? Crosby? He won't be able to defend them, neither will Malkin. All this about Pens having edge on Offense becuase of Crosby and Malkin being split up, well remember a huge amount of the Wings offense comes from the Defense. Who's better, Crosby or Lidstrom? Who would you rather have? Rafalski or Hossa? Gonchar is a threat, but he doesn't match up with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, so that being said, the offense that Detroits defense will provide will far outweigh the two scoring lines of Crosby and Malkin...

...but, there are still a couple of games for these teams to win before they worry about matching up against each other...

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Honestly, it would've been better for the Penguins to have had faced some form of adversity earlier in their playoff run, just so they know how -- as a team -- to respond to it. It's come all to easy so far for this team and it's going to be a harsh reality check in the final.

I'm not making any predictions until the Conference Finals have officially concluded, but it's highly possible (probable) that the Final could be over before the Penguins realize what hit them. Starting on the road for the first time... potentially playing a team that hasn't lost there... actually in the Cup Final and the overwhelming experiece is when you're there for the first time.... then the first time trailing in a series...

I'm sure that comes off as excessively arrogant, but there has been something special coming together for this Red Wings team over the last couple of weeks and who am I to stand back and not be a believer?

Starting the 1st period of the Rangers series down 3-0 was "some form" of adversity. So were the regular season key injuries, but you make a very valid point. Again, the Wings should win a 7 game series and will have to be the ones handling that pressure. I think you'll be surprised by the Pens composure though. Call it "youthful ignorance," but it's working. The Rags and Flyers tried to draw them into a knife fight and they didn't bite. The Wings will come at them with superior talent they'll need to deal with the initial "shock and awe." But I wouldn't underestimate them just because they are young.

And sorry I hurt your feelings regarding JLA.