Dallas Columnist: Turco Better than Osgood

[FireCaptain 563]

F you, bigot.

Edit: for those that were going to misinterpret "bigot".

Definition - bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigot

Another reason why professonal hockey should be only limited to the North where people actually know the sport.

With love, from Memphis.

Edited May 17, 2008 by FireCaptain

[shadow47 1]

Regardless of style of writing you have to admit Turco>Osgood

[gordie_howe 0]

Agreed.

[interminded 1]

Regardless of style of writing you have to admit Turco>Osgood

Have to ?

Why ?

[eva unit zero 271]

Regardless of style of writing you have to admit Turco>Osgood

Why? Because Osgood has always been disrespected because he plays for the Wings?

I don't consider that a valid reason.

Because Osgood has played on good teams? Turco's average shots faced per 60 minutes has been at or above 26 ONE SEASON in his career. Once. And then, it was 26.5. A number Osgood has exceeded seven times in his career for shots per 60 minutes.

Osgood has 160 more wins than Turco, despite playing for some truly terrible teams in NYI and StL. Turco has never played on a bad team in his career.

At the age of 33, as Turco is now, Osgood had 100 more wins than Turco does. He also had won a Stanley Cup. He certainly wasn't just shaking a reputation as a playoff choker as Turco is now.

Oh, and btw...that article is incorrect about many things. One of them being Ed Belfour's history with the Red Wings. While true Belfour never defeated the Wings in a Stars uniform, he once swept the Wings - and it was Belfour stealing the series; that's pretty much the only way to describe that series - when he was a Blackhawk. Belfour won twice as many games in Detroit in one playoff round than Turco has won in his career; and the best case scenario for Turco has him playing another game at the Joe this series.

Turco is a good goalie; but to argue that he is an elite netminder and that Osgood never was is plain idiocy. Osgood has outplayed Turco this season, this series, and over their careers...yet somehow people think Turco is the clear-cut better goaltender? Is that because Osgood had good teams in front of him? Guess what; Flashy offenses don't improve your GAA. Great defenses typically limit your shot count unless they are extremely unorthodox. Osgood has typically seen more shots per game most seasons that Turco has seen in ANY season. So there goes the 'great defense' argument used to justify Turco over Osgood.

Turco might end up with a better career than Osgood. but it sure as hell hasn't happened yet..and at this rate, I don't see it happening. Turco needs three seasons to catch the number of wins Osgood had at the same age; and Osgood himself is only three years older. Osgood is likely to finish his career in the mid 400s if not higher; Turco will be lucky to approach 400.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Eva, you kick ass. Thanks.

There are very few goaltenders, past or present, I would rate over Ozzie. He is without a doubt the most underrated goaltender of all time. Part of that is his own humility, part of it is the utter lack of flair in his style.. which is quite fine, since he gets the job done. He doesn't make the most reflexively spectacular nor the 'biggest' saves, but he's consistent and very solid, and just about always puts forth a strong effort. He's 12th in wins all time for goalies for a reason.. sure, you can claim part of that is because he's had a good team in front of him for a good chunk of his career, which is valid (then again, so did many others in the top 12), but that only goes so far. He still has to be a steady tender not to bum out and lose clutch games when the team isn't 100%, or whatever the case may be. Not only that, but generally, very good teams are going to keep a good goalie behind them, or get rid of them quickly. Hell, look at the Wings. Ozzie has been more consistently with the Wings than any other 'tender in the last 15 years. Let's face it, we've cycled through a good number of hot s*** goalies through this time, yet the fact that Ozzie has been with the Wings so much throughout is, in my opinion, not only a testament to his dedication, but also to his skill; the Wings not only kept him for a while, but later brought him back.. and now he's better than ever. Highly underrated netminder.

[C-Dub 0]

Regardless of style of writing you have to admit Turco>Osgood

Because he weighs more? I mean, really, what do you mean with that?

The answer is, "No."

[dr_lobster 0]

Appreciate your perspective, eva.

I'll try to reiterate my criticism for what this (lady, yes, thanks.) has written. Sportswriters like to overanalyze things, and this is an instance of that -- saying that Turco is a better "pure" netminder compared to Osgood without using any stats, statistics or even anecdotal evidence to justify it isn't a sensible thing for a journalist to do.

Most importantly, though -- I'm fed up with people thinking athletes can be judged separate from their teams. Goaltending doesn't happen in a vaccuum. If the writer thinks that Turco somehow has a better glove hand, or could turn away more shots from Ovechkin, or has faster lateral movement...okay. Go play a video game, where programmed numbers can help you play out what you think reality is. Putting this kind of emphasis on an individual, and saying that they don't deserve to be recognized because the team in front of them is good? Pathetic, and irresponsible.

[OsGOD 3]

[Cern 0]

In all fairness, it's not like Osgood has been stealing games for us. He's been doing what needs to be done but it's impossible to discount the contributions of the defense backing him up.

[OsGOD 3]

Going by that Turco hasn't been all that good either... His Defense played topnotch today only allowed us weak perimeter shots that were unscreened... Turco hasn't really stole games for them either.

[BlueMonk 102]

Turco is a solid goaltender, you have to give him that. Nobody is claiming he's elite.

I read this column before it was posted here. It's a puff piece; the kind of thing Rob Parker would write.

[shanny is the man 0]

When the Wings close this out (Monday I hope), no one will care what this hack writer thinks.

[eva unit zero 271]

Turco is a solid goaltender, you have to give him that. Nobody is claiming he's elite.

I read this column before it was posted here. It's a puff piece; the kind of thing Rob Parker would write.

Well, the columnist claimed Turco was on a level above Osgood. Osgood led the league in GAA this year and has done so before, and has won a Cup as a starter and has been a Vezina finalist. So claiming Turco is above that is claiming Turco is elite, because Osgood can be argued as either "elite" or "very good" and If Turco is in a whole class above Osgood, elite is the only place he could be.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Why? Because Osgood has always been disrespected because he plays for the Wings?

I don't consider that a valid reason.

Because Osgood has played on good teams? Turco's average shots faced per 60 minutes has been at or above 26 ONE SEASON in his career. Once. And then, it was 26.5. A number Osgood has exceeded seven times in his career for shots per 60 minutes.

Osgood has 160 more wins than Turco, despite playing for some truly terrible teams in NYI and StL. Turco has never played on a bad team in his career.

At the age of 33, as Turco is now, Osgood had 100 more wins than Turco does. He also had won a Stanley Cup. He certainly wasn't just shaking a reputation as a playoff choker as Turco is now.

Oh, and btw...that article is incorrect about many things. One of them being Ed Belfour's history with the Red Wings. While true Belfour never defeated the Wings in a Stars uniform, he once swept the Wings - and it was Belfour stealing the series; that's pretty much the only way to describe that series - when he was a Blackhawk. Belfour won twice as many games in Detroit in one playoff round than Turco has won in his career; and the best case scenario for Turco has him playing another game at the Joe this series.

Turco is a good goalie; but to argue that he is an elite netminder and that Osgood never was is plain idiocy. Osgood has outplayed Turco this season, this series, and over their careers...yet somehow people think Turco is the clear-cut better goaltender? Is that because Osgood had good teams in front of him? Guess what; Flashy offenses don't improve your GAA. Great defenses typically limit your shot count unless they are extremely unorthodox. Osgood has typically seen more shots per game most seasons that Turco has seen in ANY season. So there goes the 'great defense' argument used to justify Turco over Osgood.

Turco might end up with a better career than Osgood. but it sure as hell hasn't happened yet..and at this rate, I don't see it happening. Turco needs three seasons to catch the number of wins Osgood had at the same age; and Osgood himself is only three years older. Osgood is likely to finish his career in the mid 400s if not higher; Turco will be lucky to approach 400.

eva this is the first time i will pat you on the back on this post. good job

[devan 0]

Turco is a GREAT goalie for many reasons. The Stars seem to have something for building power in the net. However, I have to agree that that writer was pretty rediculous. And that column was in no way good writing. It's hard to win a cup simply with luck. And even harder to do it multiple times. Osgood is also great and works very well with his team...as does Turco with the Stars. Truth is, if there were as clear a victor as the writer claimed, this series would have been over a long time ago. I for one, am hoping to see Dallas go on to the Finals--I've been a fan since I was 14. But I have to admit, other than Dallas, Detroit is one team I'd love to see battling for the cup! Look for me in the nosebleeds on Monday!

[Offsides 21]

That was truly horrible. I feel dumber.

I just read it and was thinking that this person has no idea what they are talking about. You would pretty much have to not know what you are talking about to make such wild assumptions...basically making Turco the second coming, and Osgood some dope who wandered into a dressing room and was handed a stick. Stupid. Does she not realize that the Dallas Stars have been a pretty consistantly good team, too? Stupid article. And don't get me started on the NYI stuff. Yeah, it's difficult to explain how a 30th place team went to making the playoffs...Ozzie was terrible..pssh.

[BlueMonk 102]

Does she not realize that the Dallas Stars have been a pretty consistantly good team, too?

This is the problem with goalie arguments. The goaltenders who are well regarded all played for good teams most of their careers. One of the greatest strengths of the Dallas Stars over the years has been their dedication to defense. Getting quality scoring chances against them is extremely difficult, year in and year out. This is the team whose playoff slogan is, "Lock It Down." I mean, come on.

[eva unit zero 271]

Lucky goalie: faces nine fewer shots than his opponent in the third, and his team is only on the penalty kill twice as opposed to nine power plays.

Guess which goalie that is.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Lucky goalie: faces nine fewer shots than his opponent in the third, and his team is only on the penalty kill twice as opposed to nine power plays.

Guess which goalie that is.

Jim Carey

[eva unit zero 271]

Thought I'd bump this thread with some projections. In Osgood's four seasons as the undisputed starter for the Wings, he averaged 57 starts and 57 decisions. He just signed a three-year extension. He has played two healthy seasons since revising his style during the NHL lockout.

If we take those two healthy seasons, and assume that he starts 57 games and gets 57 decisions per season at the same kind of average performance he has posted over the past two seasons, we come up with the projected addition to Ozzie's numbers:

171 games

108 Wins

34 R.Losses

29 OT/SO Losses

10175 Mins

371 GA

4195 SA

3824 Saves

11 Shutouts

That would make his career stats, as of the end of his current deal:

471W-229L-66T-44OTL

48196 Mins

1910 GA

20757 SA

18847 Saves

.908 Save %

2.38 GAA

58 Shutouts

Them's pretty good numbers. Anyone think they keep a 470+ game winner who is a top ten goalie in most career stats both regular season AND playoffs out of the HHOF?

[Atariboy 0]

He's a HoF goalie, clear and simple.

Add in some more hardware in a week or so and it's a no-brainer. The guy just wins and wins and wins.

And isn't that the point???