Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[reggiedunlop 0]

Where is this "best backchecker in the game" mantra coming from all of a sudden? I'm pretty sure some commentator must've said it, because it seems that every Penguins fan on the Internet has taken it and run with it. Seriously. I have read that on this board and HFboards at least 15 times in the past couple weeks.

Unfortunately for the Penguins, Hossa isn't the best backchecker in the league. His backchecking may be highlighted by the lack of it amongst his teammates. Every single one of Detroit's forwards is proficient in backchecking, save for maybe Holmstrom and Hudler who aren't all that bad. You've got Datsyuk and Zetterberg (one of which should win the Selke this year) and Draper who has won the Selke before.

I'm sorry if I'm skeptical that Hal ******* Gill and Brooks Orpik are going to shut down Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Those guys are in the Adam Foote/Ruslan Salei mold and Foote and Salei were turned into pylons during the Colorado series.

If you really think Orpik and Gill are shutdown defensemen, I cannot wait for you to see what Lidstrom can do.

some of you mo-town fans are hilarious.

lets try this question. is there a player NOT on the red wings that is any good?

[Reds4Life 51]

some of you mo-town fans are hilarious.

lets try this question. is there a player NOT on the red wings that is any good?

Some of your Pens fans are the same. Do you think there is any player better than Crosby?

You make it sound like Brooks Orpik and Hal Skill are shutdown defensemen.

Newsflash: They are not.

Your team play team defense, just like our team does. That is the very reason you had success so far.

But please don't kid yourself, we have much better defense. No matter how you call it.

And Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better defensively than Hossa, hence the Selke nomination.

There is not very many players that are comparable with Zetterberg. That guy does it all.

PP, PK, evenplay, important face-off. Please name one player as universal as Zetterberg you have. Thanks.

I think this will be great series. Let's go Red Wings!

Edited May 21, 2008 by Reds4Life

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

LMAO

We all need to agree that we think the Pens are best...and you think the Wings are best....

We all will learn much in the next 2 weeks...THAT is what makes this so cool!! No one knows what's gonna happen!!

To my fellow Pens fans visiting here:

We are on a Wings board!

What do you expect them to say?...that WE are better?

Cmon.....

[seeinred 1,488]

LMAO

We all need to agree that we think the Pens are best...and you think the Wings are best....

We all will learn much in the next 2 weeks...THAT is what makes this so cool!! No one knows what's gonna happen!!

To my fellow Pens fans visiting here:

We are on a Wings board!

What do you expect them to say?...that WE are better?

Cmon.....

Haha, glad someone gets it

[CrossoverThrash 0]

The Penguins also played the Atlantic Division 32 times this year. The Atlantic is arguably the best division in hockey. They contain 3-4 elite top tier goaltenders in the division. I don't think this series is going to be as easy as many of you think it will. I hope it hits you folks hard and real fast. We are every bit talented as the Red Wings are. Clearly, many of you have not watched enough Penguins games to realize how monsterous Hal Gill has been for us since the trade deadline, or how shutdown type physically overmatching Brooks Orpik can be. And you guys completely underestimate Marian Hossa. I have seen enough Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and I think Marian Hossa IS THE BEST BACKCHECKER IN THE GAME. He just sneaks up behind you, lifts your stick, and takes the puck away in one smooth motion. And boom 2 strides the other way and no one is going to catch him. Oh well, who am I to be telling you guys all this. You all will find out soon enough what I am talkign about.

Myth: Hall Gil is good

Hes worse than lilja and he gets top 4 min on penguins this guy is garbage i watched him with the leafs too, hes lucky hes so big because thats absolutely all he has going for him, if i had to choose a winner in a fight id pick gerbe over gill

... and hossa cannot back check like pavel datsyuk (or zetterberg for that matter), whenever datsyuk is skating on the back check he WILL get a takeaway guaranteed, hossa will just put pressure on, also datsyuk is much more physical in fact datsyuk has taken out the lieks of Morrow and Robidas. Datsyuk can muck for pucks far better than hossa. Datsyuk can also deke in a phone booth once he obtains the puck and can turn it up ice instantly, datsyuk may have the strongest stick in the league when you see him barely holding on to the stick and toe dragging pucks out of other guy's reaches.

Edited May 21, 2008 by CrossoverThrash

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Great post, BRTD, and this "myth" is one I really have a problem with.

People look at the Wings as an old team. While that would be true three or four years ago, it's not anymore. Chelios, Lidstrom, and Hasek are the oldest players on the team. Chelios is a PK specialist, Hasek is riding the pine, and Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. After that, you have role players like Maltby, Draper, and Drake. These guys are veterans who know how to win and are simply there to grind down the opposition. Then there's Holmstrom, who is the best net-front player in the league. Then you have Rafalski (a top 10 NHL defenseman) who is not too old at 34 and Osgood who is playing lights out at 35.

From there, most of the team is young: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart, Filppula, and Helm are all under 30.

The Wings have an excellent combination of youth and experience and it's the youth that often gets overlooked.

Not only this, but if you take out Chelios' and Hasek's age from the average (which you can rightfully do now that Dom isn't playing and Cheli is getting limited games), the Wings average age is extremely comparable if not lower than a good amount of teams.

Just some more food for thought.

[betterREDthandead 58]

some of you mo-town fans are hilarious.

lets try this question. is there a player NOT on the red wings that is any good?

Since the Finals are against you guys: Ovechkin. If it were against the Caps: Crosby

We've also been known to give praise where it's due to Joe Sakic, who is essentially Steve Yzerman in the wrong jersey (so, 1 notch below Stevie.....but that's no shame.)

Also, Shane Doan used to piss rainbows and s*** gumdrops, but that furor kind of died down thankfully.

[betterREDthandead 58]

LMAO

We all need to agree that we think the Pens are best...and you think the Wings are best....

We all will learn much in the next 2 weeks...THAT is what makes this so cool!! No one knows what's gonna happen!!

To my fellow Pens fans visiting here:

We are on a Wings board!

What do you expect them to say?...that WE are better?

Cmon.....

An excellent post - especially the bold.....this is the fifth SCF I've seen the Wings in and only the second where they weren't prohibitive favorites. (And we swept the first one.) Going to be one for the ages, I think.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

some of you mo-town fans are hilarious.

lets try this question. is there a player NOT on the red wings that is any good?

You need to be here around the trade deadline. Then everyone not on the Wings is suddenly good and worth trading for.

If Hossa plays well against the Wings, I expect several posts about how our GM sucks because he didn't sign him here.

We still have people here that are angry because he couldn't magically sign Luongo.

[betterREDthandead 58]

You need to be here around the trade deadline. Then everyone not on the Wings is suddenly good and worth trading for.

If Hossa plays well against the Wings, I expect several posts about how our GM sucks because he didn't sign him here.

We still have people here that are angry because he couldn't magically sign Luongo.

Remember when Mark Bell held the key to the Stanley Cup?

And who was that defenseman people loved so damn much? Sarich?

[VM1138 1,921]

Yup, Sarich. I don't think it's blind homerism to say Datsyuk and Zetterberg are two of the best players in the world. W e always give credit where credit is due, and most people here are fairly smart when comparing players. But the Wings are just damn good. THe Pens have some damn good players, too, but there's no way Hossa is better than Dats and Zetterberg. I still hope we can sign him int he offseason, because he would compliment them well, but no, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the OVERALL best players in the league.

There are other players who are the complete package, but those players aren't at the same skill level as Dats and Zetterberg overall.

[WingNutNorCal 0]

This was possibly the greatest thread I've read on here.

Great insight and points from both sides.

This week is dragging on! Hurry up Saturday!

Wings in 6

[lets go pavel 2]

Remember when Mark Bell held the key to the Stanley Cup?

And who was that defenseman people loved so damn much? Sarich?

let's not forget vesa toskala ... you realize if we had traded ozzie and hasek for him we would have 12 shutouts this postseason!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Remember when Mark Bell held the key to the Stanley Cup?

And who was that defenseman people loved so damn much? Sarich?

Sarich's name was thrown around, but people were really drooling over Witt a couple seasons ago (as was most of the league, apparently).

$2.8 million for 2 goals 5 assists, -8, though he did miss a good chunk of the season due to knee injuries. The season before that he had 1 goal 13 assists and was +14. The guy's not a bad player, but the level of hype surrounding him here when he was a UFA, you'd think he was the second coming of Bobby Orr.

[eva unit zero 271]

DISPELLING THE MYTH OF MYTHS

#1..... you cannot say sample size is too small to fit your liking. 25% in playoffs is 25% in playoffs. if the wings take stupid penalties, they will pay.

You do know that Detroit scored almost as many shorthanded goals against Dallas as they gave up PP goals? And this is a team that has seen Detroit's unique PK style many times. Pittsburgh...well...hasn't. I wouldn't be stunned if Detroit scores several shorties against the pens.

#2...... wings have the edge in defense. cannot argue with you there. whitney will own the norris trophy for the next decade, gonchar is a candidate this year. you certainly have better offensive defensemen but you have no one as "stay home, hard hitting" as orpik. you have not faced as aggressive a forecheck as the pens. as i think we are the more offensively deep team, look for some of your "elder" defensemen to be a little slow come the third period.

Whitney will probably never win a Norris. He's good...but Phaneuf, Kronwall, Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, Jay Bouwmeester? All of thos guys are just as good or better. Whitney might at his peak be a finalist, but he probably will not ever actually win a Norris.

#3....... hossa played a fraction of the season on a good team. HE IS AS GOOD A BACKCHECKER AS THERE IS IN THE GAME. if he had played the whole season as a pen, he would be up for the award as well. every player has a role, and crosby and malkings role is not to kill penalties. if you have watched any of our series you know that crosby can play defense with any forward out there.

Hossa is one of the better all-around players in the league. But that said, he wouldn't even be in the Wings' top six defensive forwards. The only guys he is clearly better than defensively on the Wings' regular roster are Holmstrom, Hudler, and McCarty. And Hossa is among the best, if not the best defensive forward Pittsburgh has.

#4......... youth vs experience. our entire season was filled with adversity losing crosby and fleury..... they held up just fine...... youth does not care that drake is 39 and chelios is 62, they are full of ignorance and cockiness that comes with youth........ but drake and chelios will certainly feel their age as games and the series go forward.

Good thing Drake and Chelios are depth players and don't have to be on the ice much, so if they're tired, they can be rested.

#5......... fleury is the better goalie based on agility and skill. correct he has not seen the rubber detroit will throw but FLEURY CAN STEAL A GAME FOR THE PENS, where osgood cannot. (in my humble opinion of course)

Fleury is the better goalie based on hype. Osgood is the better goalie based on experience and performance. Oh, and Osgood has stolen a few games in this playoff run.

#6...... the sun will rise, you will pay taxes, and the pens will be outshot....... such is the way of the world...... but our goals per shot percentage is lights out ....... if they DO throw pucks at the net like they should..... osgood will be replace by hasek in short order.......

Because we all know that Pittsburgh tends to shoot more than Detroit does, or that Pittsburgh has a guy who has been a Vezina finalist and Stanley Cup champion in net, who is considered universally to be playing the best hockey of his career? Conklin is more likely to play than Hasek is, unless Osgood gets injured.

[NHLrules? 32]

Someone forgot to tell these Pens fans they play in the East.

[Graybeard 0]

That's 'cause we just won a game. Wait'll you see this place after a loss or two. You'll think Mikael Samuelsson had killed everyone's grandma.

HEY. Sammy did try to kill my grandma!! But after he emptied his clip at her twice and missed every time she got tired of his bulls*** and kicked his skinny ass.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

I obviously can't speak for everybody, but I for one never called for a Wings sweep/near-sweep. I never predict round numbers in the first place because it always results in ridiculous numbers being shouted out. It should be obvious that Detroit will have a bigger challenge with Pittsburgh than any other teams they've faced, and that the case is vice versa as well. But you also can't deny that the media has absolutely SATURATED the entire league in terms of marketing and sports commentary. I've encountered even Pens fans who are sick and tired of every single sports update on the evening news revolving entirely around Crosby's status. You mention respect towards Zetterberg, Datsyuk, etc etc, but for all intents and purposes nobody gives those players anywhere close to the kinds of considerations doled out to Sid. If anything the image the media in its near-entirety has given is that it's the Wings who are wasting their time even bothering to suit up, and ultimately that voice easily drowns out the voice coming from some small fan forum.

The point being made here is that the gap between Pittsburgh's offense and Detroit's defense isn't as wide as Detroit's offense is to Pittsburgh's defense. Hell, if ANY team in the league has a back end capable of solving Croskinssa, it's the Wings'. That imbalance could very well prove the determining factor in this series because lets face it, Fleury is no Turco, and the Wings have been able to solve Turco.

The reason Crosby gets the attention he gets around the NHL moreso than players liek Datsyuk and Zetterberg is because Crosby was donned the title "The Next One." He is already considered as the next best thing since Mario Lemieux by many people around the hockey world. On top of that, he was a first overall pick in a draft that contained arguably one of the biggest sweepstakes in the history of NHL drafts. Another reason for this is because Sid has more than lived up to hype in the NHL that was expected of him and the NHL wants to make sure the people who don't watch hockey as much hockey as me any you realize this. He is the youngest captain of an NHL team in history. He is the youngest player in North American sports to win the MVP of his league. These are some huge honors if you ask me. And that is why he gets and deserves the hype he gets. I mean the kid's first national interview was when he was friggin 12 years old man.

Case in point, Evgeni Malkin. Look at what this guy has done this season but yet he doesn't get the hype that he deserves, because he is overshadowed by the 20 year old captain on his own team. Get used to it. He is basically the posterboy for the NHL atleast until someone else comes in that creates the same hype Crosby creates.

Edited May 21, 2008 by HeyNow71871929

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Unless the competing defense/goalie has been absolutely spectacular (Note that Ottawa, NY, Philly, St. Louis, and to a slightly lesser extent Dallas didn't do that in your examples) failing to get even a single goal after 60 minutes of play demonstrates a team that simply dosen't have the will /mind / desire to get the job done. Malkin's pathetic penalty shot in game 4 against NY comes to mind.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe these teams got shutout because the goaltender was playing out of his mind? Does it ever occur to you that maybe the goaltender had something to do with a team getting no goals, rather than the team not having heart to play. Let alone tanking in the regular season, your assumptions that teams tank in the playoffs is absolutely ridiculous. It makes a whole lot of sense. Players and teams try real hard to get to the playoffs and then they decide to tank cause they don't want to play anymore and compete for the ultimate prize. Not sure how many games you actually watch.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Some of your Pens fans are the same. Do you think there is any player better than Crosby?

You make it sound like Brooks Orpik and Hal Skill are shutdown defensemen.

Newsflash: They are not.

Your team play team defense, just like our team does. That is the very reason you had success so far.

But please don't kid yourself, we have much better defense. No matter how you call it.

And Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better defensively than Hossa, hence the Selke nomination.

There is not very many players that are comparable with Zetterberg. That guy does it all.

PP, PK, evenplay, important face-off. Please name one player as universal as Zetterberg you have. Thanks.

I think this will be great series. Let's go Red Wings!

I understand Zetterberg and Datsyuk are tremendous players. But people on here make it seem like the Selke award is everything. All of your comments seem to have something with Selke in it. It's a nice award sure, but we can just as easily bring up the fact Malkin is a Hart Trophy candidate and the fact Crosby won 3 trophies last year. And you don't need to be nominated for a particular trophy to be good at it. Just because Hossa wasn't nominated for the Selke doesn't make him any less defensively aware and defensively intelligent then your boys Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

[betterREDthandead 58]

The reason Crosby gets the attention he gets around the NHL moreso than players liek Datsyuk and Zetterberg is because Crosby was donned the title "The Next One." He is already considered as the next best thing since Mario Lemisux by many people around the hockey world. On top of that, he was a first overall pick in a draft that contained arguably one of the biggest sweepstakes in the history of NHL drafts. Another reason for this is because Sid has more than lived up to hype in the NHL that was expected of him and the NHL wants to make sure the people who don't watch hockey as much hockey as me any you realize this. He is the youngest captain of an NHL team in history. He is the youngest player in North American sports to win the MVP of his league. These are some huge honors if you ask me. And that is why he gets and deserves the hype he gets. I mean the kid's first national interview was when he was friggin 12 years old man.

Hey, Mario's off limits

[Graybeard 0]

sorry for my mistake on the norris gonchar nomination.......... stuart is not better than orpik...... but my opinion does not really matter...... i do have a question though.

how DID you guys lose any games this year? :-)

Well we played without our defense for a while when they were injured.

Also, we have to be careful not to just go and win all the games. They already put a salary cap on the league to try and break our dynasty, not being smart enough to realize it's our scouting that really keeps our team great. We are afraid of what other damage Bettman might inflict on the NHL trying to stop us if we push too hard.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

You do know that Detroit scored almost as many shorthanded goals against Dallas as they gave up PP goals? And this is a team that has seen Detroit's unique PK style many times. Pittsburgh...well...hasn't. I wouldn't be stunned if Detroit scores several shorties against the pens.

Whitney will probably never win a Norris. He's good...but Phaneuf, Kronwall, Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, Jay Bouwmeester? All of thos guys are just as good or better. Whitney might at his peak be a finalist, but he probably will not ever actually win a Norris.

Hossa is one of the better all-around players in the league. But that said, he wouldn't even be in the Wings' top six defensive forwards. The only guys he is clearly better than defensively on the Wings' regular roster are Holmstrom, Hudler, and McCarty. And Hossa is among the best, if not the best defensive forward Pittsburgh has.

Good thing Drake and Chelios are depth players and don't have to be on the ice much, so if they're tired, they can be rested.

Fleury is the better goalie based on hype. Osgood is the better goalie based on experience and performance. Oh, and Osgood has stolen a few games in this playoff run.

Because we all know that Pittsburgh tends to shoot more than Detroit does, or that Pittsburgh has a guy who has been a Vezina finalist and Stanley Cup champion in net, who is considered universally to be playing the best hockey of his career? Conklin is more likely to play than Hasek is, unless Osgood gets injured.

And you're saying Fleury hasn't stole any games in these playoffs? He's been every bit as impressive as Osgood. Fleury has stolen a good 2-3 games in these playoffs. And in the other games, he had tried his best to keep us in the game and gave us a chance to come back. I understand this is a Wings board and expect to hear a lot of positive things about the Wings, but come one. Let's be a little bit more realistic and point out real facts.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

some of you mo-town fans are hilarious.

lets try this question. is there a player NOT on the red wings that is any good?

Come back to the boards in the midst of a losing streak and you'll find the majority of the posters here calling for everyone to be traded, Babcock/Holland to be fired, and Mikael Sammuelsson/Andreas Lilja to be strapped to a rocket and sent to Neptune.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

Come back to the boards in the midst of a losing streak and you'll find the majority of the posters here calling for everyone to be traded, Babcock/Holland to be fired, and Mikael Sammuelsson/Andreas Lilja to be strapped to a rocket and sent to Neptune.

Come on, that's ridiculous... Neptune isn't far enough away... Pluto works better