LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Start and end by saying.... "NO!" ...too much leadership in our lockeroom to let Emery get out of hand? Whatever! If Emery isn't starting, then he is a cancer. You need your goalies to be peanut buter and jelly. Do yo think Osgood would want to stay on the road with Emery? No. Kenny wouldn't do that to Ozzie. He wants a clear back-up to Osgood, someone to push Osgood, not someone to push him off a balcony. Remember when Hasek came back and Cujo got pushed out? Well, even when Cujo came back up the goaltender situation was brutal! Our "Leaders" couldn't settle that down and they cannot cure cancer... ...NO TO EMERY! Kolzig would be a better choice... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outsider 42 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Thats horrible reasoning. It took years for Cleary to put his problems behind him, it didn't happen over night. We haven't yet seen how Emery can be outside the Senators. Any hockey fan on the internet should have heard some of the stories about the division in the Ottawa locker room. It goes way beyond Emery. I don't see why a player like Emery can't turn it around like Cleary did. The knock on Dan Cleary was that he was lazy, and had poor work ethic. Those are things you can make a larger, more stringent commitment to, and be successful. As for the division in the lockerroom going "way beyond" Emery..... The lockerroom has nothing to do with him threatening senior citizens on the roads of the Nations Capitol with severe bodily harm, (to put it mildly), or exhibiting absolutely no ability to control his anger, (some have even called it outright rage), in public places completely outside the rink, and having nothing whatsoever to do with the lockerroom, his teammates, or hockey. The guy is unstable. Mentally and emotionally unstable. Think "Mike Tyson" unstable. (Someone Emery claims to be a "hero" of his, by the way). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadow47 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I'd like to think the Wings are a stronger team than one that would be torn apart by the actions of one numbnuts newbie. It's not character that is the reason I don't want Emery, it's just I think he's a bad goalie. I think his '05-'06 season and this past year are more representative of his talent than '06-'07. Clearly Emery's rookie season of 2006 will show the entirety of his goaltending ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryMalredo 2 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 The knock on Dan Cleary was that he was lazy, and had poor work ethic. Those are things you can make a larger, more stringent commitment to, and be successful. As for the division in the lockerroom going "way beyond" Emery..... The lockerroom has nothing to do with him threatening senior citizens on the roads of the Nations Capitol with severe bodily harm, (to put it mildly), or exhibiting absolutely no ability to control his anger, (some have even called it outright rage), in public places completely outside the rink, and having nothing whatsoever to do with the lockerroom, his teammates, or hockey. The guy is unstable. Mentally and emotionally unstable. Think "Mike Tyson" unstable. (Someone Emery claims to be a "hero" of his, by the way). Thats a bit much to call him mentally unstable. I don't see why someone shouldn't get a second chance, just because they have some issues. Some people do happen to have anger issues, its not something they should be shunned for. The management in Ottawa (especially Bryan Murray) did nothing to help him out. The year when he was playing lights out and the Sens made the final, the team looked the other way when (allegedly) Emery and his buddies on the team were partying it up. I don't see why Emery wouldn't be able to revive his career with an organization that is more functional than the Sens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outsider 42 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Thats a bit much to call him mentally unstable. I don't see why someone shouldn't get a second chance, just because they have some issues. Some people do happen to have anger issues, its not something they should be shunned for. The management in Ottawa (especially Bryan Murray) did nothing to help him out. The year when he was playing lights out and the Sens made the final, the team looked the other way when (allegedly) Emery and his buddies on the team were partying it up. I don't see why Emery wouldn't be able to revive his career with an organization that is more functional than the Sens. With all due respect, the most important part of a goaltenders game is the MENTAL aspect. He needs to have ice-water running through his veins. Calm, cool, collected, not easily rattled. Emery is more-than-rattled before he even hits the ice. Also, listen to the guy. Actually listen to what HE has to say, and the manner in which he says it. He's got a chip on his shoulder like you wouldn't believe, a persecution complex, and absolutely refuses to be accountable for the bone-headed decisions HE himself makes. Say what you will about "second chances", but hockey is a TEAM sport, and when your basic personality is diametrically opposed to the Team philosophy, it goes beyond something that can be easily "fixed". Why take the chance? He's not so good a goaltender to begin with that he's worth the risk of fracturing one of the tightest lockerrooms in the League. And with the other baggage he brings, you're just asking for trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Emery has plenty of talent. However...he would have to come here fully accepting that he was signing on to compete for the backup position, and would have to sign for the league minimum or close to it. If he can do that, then I have faith in his ability to put the mental issues behind him. Especially once he'd be partnered with a guy like Chris Osgood, who has been one of the most mentally tough goaltenders in the league his whole career. If Emery isn't willing to accept a backup role and salary, he has no place in Detroit. If he is willing to do so, then he jumps to #1 on my list of UFA goaltenders I would like to see the Wings pursue, ahead of Brent Krahn and Alex Auld. Finally... No, I don't think Emery will be in Detroit, for precisely the reason I don't expect him to accept the backup salary; moreover, I think there will be a team that will offer him more than Ozzie makes plus a shot at the starting job. He wouldn't get either in Detroit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Emery to Tampa to compete with Smith. 1 Year deal, they tell him here is your shot, both of you are free agents next season, we ride the hot goalie. May the best man be our goalie next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yemack 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Emery, I think, is a very good goalie. I just don't think his style fits our club at all. and to reply to OP, the story is flat out lie. At least I hope so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Well if Holland isn't going to bring Howard up and they are shopping around for a backup to Osgood (because it would be insane to make him a back up right now), I'd rather see Cujo come back than Ray and his head games. sheesh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjradio 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 two words..... Grand Rapids... Nobody in the NHL would want him. He'd clear waivers without a problem. He practiced with the Griffins in 2000-01 in the playoffs when GR was the Ottawa affiliate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Start and end by saying.... "NO!" ...too much leadership in our lockeroom to let Emery get out of hand? Whatever! If Emery isn't starting, then he is a cancer. You need your goalies to be peanut buter and jelly. Do yo think Osgood would want to stay on the road with Emery? No. Kenny wouldn't do that to Ozzie. He wants a clear back-up to Osgood, someone to push Osgood, not someone to push him off a balcony. Remember when Hasek came back and Cujo got pushed out? Well, even when Cujo came back up the goaltender situation was brutal! Our "Leaders" couldn't settle that down and they cannot cure cancer... ...NO TO EMERY! Kolzig would be a better choice... I agree...we do have great leadership, but some people are beyond being fixed. First time Lids, Ozzie or whoever tries to be a leader with him, he'll be trying to fight them or something. Leadership can correct some work ethic issues, teach you how to win, things like that. It cannot fix a guy like Ray Emery, period. I'm 100% confident that we'll be fine going in with Osgood-Howard. If there were a decent 2nd goalie candidate out there, I'm not saying I wouldn't be interested, but there's not. Especially not Ray Emery. Verdict: No. Way. In. Hell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 If... Wings management ultimately decides that Howard isn't ready for NHL duty on a regular basis (as the #2 guy of course) or wants him to play beaucoup in Grand Rapids one last season... AND if... Emery realizes that he is not going to be starting goaltender anytime soon and can live with that and not be a basketcase causing distractions, I'd be open to his services, but very cautious and wary due to his emotional baggage. Honestly I just want to go with Osgood and Howard and not have anymore goalie merry-go-round drama. Can Howard still play in Grand Rapids/get called up and the like without having to clear waivers one more season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I originally though Emery had "one bad year"... after reading more, it's pretty clear this guy has been a problem with various teams for years. Too much. Give Howard a shot at training camp - he's already been told what he needs to do. There will still be goalies availbale then, if he is not up to it... and at the worst, there are always decent goalies available at the trade deadline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Emery to Tampa to compete with Smith. 1 Year deal, they tell him here is your shot, both of you are free agents next season, we ride the hot goalie. May the best man be our goalie next year. Smith is better than Emery (albeit slightly and hasn't proved a whole lot) and Rambo (Ramo) is definitely a guy that should be getting some time. He was pretty solid for Tampa last year.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I originally though Emery had "one bad year"... after reading more, it's pretty clear this guy has been a problem with various teams for years. Too much. Give Howard a shot at training camp - he's already been told what he needs to do. There will still be goalies availbale then, if he is not up to it... and at the worst, there are always decent goalies available at the trade deadline. Everyone invited to training camp gets a shot. It would be smart for Kenny to get a veteran with a relatively big name in there at training camp to see what Howard can do if pressed. As much as I think Howard can take the back-up spot, theres no telling if hes developed enough up to this point to be the clear cut choice for back-up. Emery, Raycroft, Denis, Cloutier, etc. All those guys actually do have some decent talent. At least enough to be an NHL back-up. And all of them will be playing their hearts out to build back up their reputation. God knows playing for the Red Wings is one of the best places to make yourself look good. That said, that doesn't mean I want him. But honestly, assuming this rumor is true, if management thinks Emery can be handled, then we really shouldn't second-guess them. They probably know something we don't if this is the case. Also, you have to remember Emery is only 25. If he doesn't get his act back together with some team, he could see his NHL career cut short a good 15 years. Its possible that he recognizes that and is ready to rectify his attitude issues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I agree...we do have great leadership, but some people are beyond being fixed. First time Lids, Ozzie or whoever tries to be a leader with him, he'll be trying to fight them or something. Leadership can correct some work ethic issues, teach you how to win, things like that. It cannot fix a guy like Ray Emery, period. I'm 100% confident that we'll be fine going in with Osgood-Howard. If there were a decent 2nd goalie candidate out there, I'm not saying I wouldn't be interested, but there's not. Especially not Ray Emery. Verdict: No. Way. In. Hell. Leadership or not, you don't intentionally create a problem and hope they can fix it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soultrain 43 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 when i heard the sens let him go i was stoked...the wings should give him a shot...if he causes any issues...let him go. get him cheap, let him fight. let him win. don't let him get outta line. ray can win a cup...the enviorment is right for him in detroit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjradio 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I still don't believe Jimmy Howard is as NHL ready as everybody here thinks he is. Watched him during this last year and he struggled. He was not sharp, he regressed some this past season. He's really got to get his act together if he's going to be backup in Detroit in 08-09 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwedeLundin77 460 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I still don't believe Jimmy Howard is as NHL ready as everybody here thinks he is. Watched him during this last year and he struggled. He was not sharp, he regressed some this past season. He's really got to get his act together if he's going to be backup in Detroit in 08-09 I totally agree with you, but the guy does deserve a shot to show what he can do at the elite level, at least to start the season out. We'll have to see how he looks in training camp to really tell for sure. Still, I believe that it is important for us to sign a reliable veteran goalie who can be in the backup role JUST in case Howard is not NHL ready this season. At the worst we sign someone for cheaper and they push Osgood and Howard to perform at higher levels. There is nothing wrong with that and this is the year we can afford to do this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) Is there a full list of NHL Free Agent Goalies floating around and if so please can someone please post it so all can be compared... I highly doubt the Wings are looking at Joseph, Emery, Denis, Theodore, Cloutier, and some others... Howard is more than likely not ready to play 20-30 games in the NHL (be a backup)... Holland even stated he wanted to sign a Veteran Goalie (from what I read here) - so what is considered a Veteran Goalie nowadays... Hasek and Ozzie worked together last year in the regular season, neither one carried the team the entire year... I would rather bring is a good Vet Goalie, have him play 30-35 games and Ozzie plays the rest and the playoffs - it seemed to work out well this year... Just food for thought... Edited June 28, 2008 by Rivalred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 I still don't believe Jimmy Howard is as NHL ready as everybody here thinks he is. Watched him during this last year and he struggled. He was not sharp, he regressed some this past season. He's really got to get his act together if he's going to be backup in Detroit in 08-09 So keep him in Detroit full time so he can work with Bedard every day. If the Wings were strong enough to carry Dom's creaky carcass through the regular season they can smooth out some growing pains on Jimmy's part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outsider 42 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 So keep him in Detroit full time so he can work with Bedard every day. If the Wings were strong enough to carry Dom's creaky carcass through the regular season they can smooth out some growing pains on Jimmy's part. Unless the problem, (assuming there is an actual problem), isn't with Jimmy Howard's game, but rather with his Game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Stands a far better chance of improving in Detroit than in Grand Rapids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outsider 42 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Stands a far better chance of improving in Detroit than in Grand Rapids. Again, that is assuming that Management and Coaching feel that the problem, (assuming there is an actual problem), is one that "work" will improve, rather than not. It has been clear for many years that all the work in the world was not going to "improve" Dan Cloutier, because the problem was NOT with his game, but rather with his Game. And before everyone here freaks out, I am absolutely NOT stating that Jimmy Howard is the next Dan Cloutier, only citing Trashcan Dan as an example of a goaltender who needs much more than steady work with a goaltending coach in order to get his game, and his Game, in order. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted June 28, 2008 Again, that is assuming that Management and Coaching feel that the problem, (assuming there is an actual problem), is one that "work" will improve, rather than not. It has been clear for many years that all the work in the world was not going to "improve" Dan Cloutier, because the problem was NOT with his game, but rather with his Game. And before everyone here freaks out, I am absolutely NOT stating that Jimmy Howard is the next Dan Cloutier, only citing Trashcan Dan as an example of a goaltender who needs much more than steady work with a goaltending coach in order to get his game, and his Game, in order. Again, if it's going to improve (if it is even a problem) it stands a far better chance of improving in Detroit. And that goes far beyond just Bedard. The lockerroom as a whole as compared to the one in GR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
