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timothy1997

The Great Brett Favre Kerfuffle of 2008

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Am I not the only one that thinks #4 and the Packers organization are ruining what SHOULD be a great retirement of a living legend?

Thought the exact same thing! If he never plays again most people (except probably GB fans) will remember how he went out instead of the other things he should have been remembered for.

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It must be contagious, because I've flip-flopped a couple of times today:

It's pretty clear whose side I'm on based on my posts on this board. I've worn a Brett Favre jersey the past four days (I have several) and I'm not planning on stopping anytime soon.

Then I read some quotes today in the lead up to the interview about Favre saying he didn't want to be traded because it would "cede control to the Packers" and that he "wouldn't come to Green Bay to backup Aaron Rodgers" and I started to think he was being very unreasonable. That realistically there's no way GB would release him and so he better get used to the idea that they'd trade him--and would likely let him have input into his new location.

Now, having read the transcript of the interview tonight (the situation just makes me sad, and we watch "Saving Grace" anyway, so I figured I didn't need to see it live) I'm back on Brett's side:

I fully believe that the Packers pressured him into making a decision in March and that he did the responsible thing and retired. If he wasn't 100% committed to coming back at that point, there was no way he could tell them he was coming back. If he announced he was coming back and then retired at this point (rather than vice-versa), he would've COMPLETELY screwed the team over. At this point, they're in an uncomfortable situation, but the option is either having Favre-Rodgers-Brohm or Rodgers-Brohm-Flynn. Neither is bad. If Favre announces a comeback and then goes Barry Sanders on us, our QB depth chart looks like this: Aaron Rodgers. Perhaps Rodgers-Flynn.

If Favre was, in fact, told that playing in Green Bay wasn't an option and yet they couldn't envision him playing for another team, the Packers are being even more unreasonable than Favre was when he asked for his outright release. The team should not have any control over a player's desire to continue his career. If they really wanted to, they would have the right to say "You can come back, but we aren't moving you. You'll stay on our team." It would be a low move to pull against a player that has done so much for the organization, but if they really wanted to that's their right as he signed the contract. But you can't say "You can't play here AND we're not moving you." That's crap.

If Mike McCarthy did in fact tell Favre that they would have let him wait until training camp to announce his intentions, then the only thing that has changed is that the team has believed for three months that Aaron Rodgers would be the starting QB. They would have had to approach the draft and free agency as if Favre wasn't coming back. They would have gone through the OTAs under the assumption that Favre wasn't coming back. They would have added some Aaron Rodgers plays to the playbook in case he became the starter. It's absolute BS that they won't take Favre back if it's true that they were willing to wait until training camp for him to make up his mind, and just didn't inform him of that.

I love Brett Favre. People can talk about how "He didn't make this team what it was" all they want to. That is true. Without his line or without Reggie, without Holmgren, maybe they don't accomplish everything they accomplished. He didn't win the Super Bowl by himself. But he did provide some of the greatest sports memories that I have. Memories that I will cherish my entire life. I've got DVD after DVD filled with all of our wins from the last 2 years along with some of the classics over the years that I've been able to find. I even have a couple from that dreadful 4-12 year. The reason I have them is simply so that once Brett Favre is gone, I'll be able to go back and watch him play again. I know the Packers were around for years before Favre came and they'll be around long after he's gone. But for me, it's never going to be the same. I'll still love this team. I'll still cheer my head off for them. I'll still go to games and cherish the moment when I do. But I can pretty much guarantee that I'll never have as much fun watching football as I have had watching Brett Favre. Maybe I'm just an oversentimental fuddy-duddy, but I want another chance to see him in the green and gold. I'm not ready for this era to end. If we were 7-9 last year I could understand wanting to move on, but we were 13-3 and 1 play from the Super Bowl. Favre had one of the best seasons of his career. Why are we so anxious to see the quarterback of the future, when the quarterback of the past and present still wants to play?

I do understand why the Packers would want to move on after Favre flip-flopped in March. What I don't understand is, if they were in fact willing to let him wait until training camp to decide, what has changed? Why not, at the point of the flip-flop, tell him, "Brett, take some more time, and talk to us again when camp gets here"? It's now training camp. The man wants to play. Sure Rodgers would be disappointed, but he's smart enough to know that Favre is a special player and taking Favre back isn't saying anything negative about Rodgers.

I'm sure Favre knows how this is making him look. The JSO had a poll and only like 47% of the fans want to see him back as the QB at this point. That would have been unfathomable in January. He's coming across looking really bad (though I think he helped himself tonight). But is it not understandable that they forced him into a decision and he did the responsible thing, and now wishes he had made the other choice? He's having to swallow an unbelievable amount of pride to come out of retirement after that press conference he had. But the man wants to play. And I don't see how anyone can fault him for that.

I'm sick of seeing the fans turn on him for not doing anything wrong. Could he have handled things better? Sure. He should have spoken well before tonight and not allowed his family, friends, and text messages say it all. Could the organization have handled it better? Absolutely. They could have started by being honest with him--either having the balls to tell him in the first place that they wanted to move on, or given him the time he needed to make a decision he could live with. In the end, I'm inclined to believe what Favre is saying. GMs are notorious liars. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I'd bet it's closer to Favre's version.

Two of the most cherished figures in the history of the Packers retired and then came back: Reggie White and Vince Lombardi. Were either of them selfish, unreasonable, or tarnishing their legacy? No. The hate that's been spewed for Favre is, to me, completely ridiculous. Yes, he's waffled and the will-he-or-won't-he game is tiresome at best and attention whoring at worst. But it's hard to blame a guy for wanting to play if he thinks he still can...

Thought the exact same thing! If he never plays again most people (except probably GB fans) will remember how he went out instead of the other things he should have been remembered for.

I don't buy that for a second. In the short-term, you're probably right. In the long-term? It's going to be a non-issue. Does anyone actually remember Reggie White's year in Carolina? Did it hurt his legacy whatsoever? Not in my book.

What about Vince Lombardi coaching the Redskins for a year? Honestly, if I hadn't read a biography of him, I don't think I'd know about that one.

Montana as a Chief? Jordan as a Wizard? Did that diminish anything they did with San Fran or Chicago? Nope. And those years definitely don't define their careers.

Do people remember Joe Namath for his guaranteed Super Bowl win or his ill-advised year as a Ram?

Slightly different, but do people remember Bart Starr as one of the great QBs of all-time, or as a pretty awful coach?

These great memories will live on. Even 5, 10 years from now, people really aren't going to care how Favre retired, just that he broke every passing record in the book, won a Super Bowl, and was arguably the most entertaining player of his era.

The only way this possible season with a different team is anything more than an afterthought on his career is if he ends up going to/winning the Super Bowl or wins MVP. If he's merely good, no one will care that much. If he isn't good, they'll say he hung on too long, but it won't be mentioned years from now. Just like it hasn't been with Reggie White or some of those other guys I mentioned....

Edited by Packer487

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Packer487...You really love Brett!!

Green Bay would be stupid to release him. Trade? Yeah, then they won't f*** themselves to much.

Trade him to Philly. Isn't that what he wanted a couple years ago??

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comparing #4's retirement to Reggie White's isnt even a fair comparison. #4 is jerking around his retirement more similar to when Barry Sanders shocked everyone and called it a career. There are still people that hate Sanders here in Detroit for what he did. Wonder how long before there are people that begin to just hate #4 and what him to shut up....if they dont have them already.

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comparing #4's retirement to Reggie White's isnt even a fair comparison. #4 is jerking around his retirement more similar to when Barry Sanders shocked everyone and called it a career. There are still people that hate Sanders here in Detroit for what he did. Wonder how long before there are people that begin to just hate #4 and what him to shut up....if they dont have them already.

I'm probably 1 of the very few (in the state of Wisconsin) who isn't a fan of the guy, & my beef with Favre is that he was contemplating retirement for quite some time before he finally did "retire" this past spring - mind you after what was a damn fine season.

IMO both sides are looking a bit suspicious with their intentions; hard to judge from the media as to who's the "good guy", & who's the "bad guy" in this mess.

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comparing #4's retirement to Reggie White's isnt even a fair comparison. #4 is jerking around his retirement more similar to when Barry Sanders shocked everyone and called it a career. There are still people that hate Sanders here in Detroit for what he did. Wonder how long before there are people that begin to just hate #4 and what him to shut up....if they dont have them already.

I disagree that this is similar to Barry Sanders. Barry's timing was lousy, but there was never any ambiguity. Any rumors of his return were purely a media invention. Barry made up his mind and that was that. Other than having to suddenly replace a legend, the Lions were not in a tough spot. Not the way the Packers are now, with having made other arrangements, promises to certain guys (Rodgers), etc. The Packers have been under this cloud of "what's Brett gonna do?" for the past several years as Favre has had all kinds of trouble making up his mind. Now it's even worse. I think the Packers are far more in the lurch than the Lions were, because Lions fans were never forced to choose sides between the legend and the team.

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comparing #4's retirement to Reggie White's isnt even a fair comparison. #4 is jerking around his retirement more similar to when Barry Sanders shocked everyone and called it a career. There are still people that hate Sanders here in Detroit for what he did. Wonder how long before there are people that begin to just hate #4 and what him to shut up....if they dont have them already.

Except that Reggie White retired from football, then came out of retirement to play for a different team. It hasn't tarnished his legacy, and I'd be willing to bet that Favre's return would go a whole lot better than White's did.

Favre would be comparable to Sanders if he had announced in March that he was coming back and then walked out on the team around this time, saying he thought he would be able to play again but he just can't do it. Favre hasn't screwed the Packers over. They're in an uncomfortable spot, but the offseason hasn't gone any differently than it would have if they would've given Brett Favre this time to think, like they claim they would have.

There are plenty of people who are tired of the story.

I'm probably 1 of the very few (in the state of Wisconsin) who isn't a fan of the guy, & my beef with Favre is that he was contemplating retirement for quite some time before he finally did "retire" this past spring - mind you after what was a damn fine season.

Who cares? The talk was got old, but do you think Favre is the only athlete out there that has "Should I or shouldn't I?" running through his head in the offseason? Strahan was doing the same thing last year and he kept his team hanging until after the preseason was over. Didn't seem to affect them too much. Favre's biggest problem is that he's too honest and sometimes he says stupid stuff and doesn't put the kabosh on things that should be nipped in the bud.

I disagree that this is similar to Barry Sanders. Barry's timing was lousy, but there was never any ambiguity. Any rumors of his return were purely a media invention. Barry made up his mind and that was that. Other than having to suddenly replace a legend, the Lions were not in a tough spot. Not the way the Packers are now, with having made other arrangements, promises to certain guys (Rodgers), etc. The Packers have been under this cloud of "what's Brett gonna do?" for the past several years as Favre has had all kinds of trouble making up his mind. Now it's even worse. I think the Packers are far more in the lurch than the Lions were, because Lions fans were never forced to choose sides between the legend and the team.

Wait, what? So you think it would be better if Favre had just retired on the eve of the preseason? Do you know what Green Bay's depth chart at QB would look like right now if he had done that?

Aaron Rodgers

At least in Favre's situation the team has had time to prepare and they have made other arraignments. The Packers are in a tough spot, but their season isn't screwed. If Favre comes back, they've got Favre-Rodgers-Brohm, which is as good of a situation at QB as any team in the league. If he doesn't return, they've got Rodgers-Brohm-Flynn, which has a lot of unproven talent, but is still pretty solid with two guys who were widely thought of as #1 overall picks at some point in their careers.

If Favre had never given any indication he was thinking of retiring and had walked out now, God only knows what their QB situation would look like. The only reason there's any problem with what he's doing is because Thompson has an ego and he wants to get a look at his QB. Favre has done nothing wrong by changing his mind.

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The problem I have with #4 is that he flip flops too much. he now says that he felt pressured by the Packers to retire. Probably because they were sick of him with the whole retired or not thing.

Thats bulls***!! His comment of pressure is an attempt to me to tarnish the GB organization.

Just retire baby!

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The problem I have with #4 is that he flip flops too much. he now says that he felt pressured by the Packers to retire. Probably because they were sick of him with the whole retired or not thing.

Thats bulls***!! His comment of pressure is an attempt to me to tarnish the GB organization.

Just retire baby!

He's flip-flopped exactly one time. He retired, and now he wants to come back. No different than Michael Jordan, Dominik Hasek, Vince Lombardi, Bill Parcells, and a slew of others.

The Packers wanted an answer before the draft/free agency. He gave them one. Then, after thinking about it for another 3 months, he decided he made the wrong choice. And based on their own comments, the Packers were pretty confident he was going to feel this way. And yet, even though they CLAIM (or at least Favre says they claim this...) they would have given him until training camp if they asked, they certainly didn't offer extra time to make up his mind.

You really doubt that the Packers were trying to get an answer out of him before he was ready to give one?

I can understand you wanting to have him retire. Maybe the Lions would have a chance to win in Green Bay at some point.....

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Wait, what? So you think it would be better if Favre had just retired on the eve of the preseason? Do you know what Green Bay's depth chart at QB would look like right now if he had done that?

Aaron Rodgers

At least in Favre's situation the team has had time to prepare and they have made other arraignments. The Packers are in a tough spot, but their season isn't screwed. If Favre comes back, they've got Favre-Rodgers-Brohm, which is as good of a situation at QB as any team in the league. If he doesn't return, they've got Rodgers-Brohm-Flynn, which has a lot of unproven talent, but is still pretty solid with two guys who were widely thought of as #1 overall picks at some point in their careers.

If Favre had never given any indication he was thinking of retiring and had walked out now, God only knows what their QB situation would look like. The only reason there's any problem with what he's doing is because Thompson has an ego and he wants to get a look at his QB. Favre has done nothing wrong by changing his mind.

Wait, what? right back atcha. You can't claim that the depth chart would consist of one guy and then call Rodgers-Brohm-Flynn "pretty solid." Look at it this way:

If Favre retires in March and then doesn't come back, your starting quarterback is Aaron Rodgers and you have a rookie backing him up.

If Favre comes back in March then calls it quits just before preseason, your starting quarterback is Aaron Rodgers and you have a rookie backing him up.

And then you probably run out and get someone like Chris Simms, who is not a bad insurance policy. So you're set.

This way, Favre does wrong by every single quarterback on the roster and causes a media circus besides.

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You really doubt that the Packers were trying to get an answer out of him before he was ready to give one?

Which they wouldn't have done if he could ever make up his mind. For two or three years now, maybe even longer, we've gone through this question with Favre: will he retire, or won't he? And each year all he ever had to was say, "Look fellas, I still want to play football." Instead every year he waffles. Can you blame the organization for getting tired of it? The draft is too important to be in a position of not knowing what your marquee player is gonna do. I doubt the Packers pressured him to retire. It wouldn't completely surprise me if that were so, but I doubt it. But I absolutely believe the Packers pressured him to make up his mind.

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Which they wouldn't have done if he could ever make up his mind. For two or three years now, maybe even longer, we've gone through this question with Favre: will he retire, or won't he? And each year all he ever had to was say, "Look fellas, I still want to play football." Instead every year he waffles. Can you blame the organization for getting tired of it? The draft is too important to be in a position of not knowing what your marquee player is gonna do. I doubt the Packers pressured him to retire. It wouldn't completely surprise me if that were so, but I doubt it. But I absolutely believe the Packers pressured him to make up his mind.

I agree with this. I don't think the Packers pressured him at all. I will use a Packer comeback here, and say "Why would the Packers pressure the starting QB of a team 1 play away from the Super Bowl to retire?"

I still question why Favre "retired" when he has said he never feels like playing at that time of year. It doesn't make sense to me. Now, the Packers are faced with a dilemma between loyalty, and a business move.

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You can't claim that the depth chart would consist of one guy and then call Rodgers-Brohm-Flynn "pretty solid."

Uhh...why not? I don't see what one quote has to do with the other. I suppose I could see objecting to me saying that R-B-F is "pretty solid" but I also acknowledged it's a lot of unproven talent.

If Favre retires in March and then doesn't come back, your starting quarterback is Aaron Rodgers and you have a rookie backing him up.

If Favre comes back in March then calls it quits just before preseason, your starting quarterback is Aaron Rodgers and you have a rookie backing him up.

True on both parts, but in the second part, instead of a guy that was thought of as the top player in the draft heading into his senior season, we'd likely have a 7th round draft pick or a street free agent. I suppose it's possible they would have taken Brohm anyway (if they were truly doing BPA), but I wouldn't consider it likely that they'd burn a 2nd round pick on a 3rd string QB when they only carried 2 last year.

And then you probably run out and get someone like Chris Simms, who is not a bad insurance policy. So you're set.

Still, the quarterback group would be downgraded. The Packers have chosen to go with their rookies over every vet on the market, which leads me to believe they think Brohm (inexperience and all) is better than the guys out there.

At least this way, there's a chance (slight as it may be) that we get Favre back, if not there's a chance (decent) that we'll get a very good draft pick out of this (Montana went for a 1st and a player, I believe, and he wasn't coming off a year like Favre had), and Rodgers has gone through the offseason as the starter and they've been able to tweak the offense slightly to him. None of of those benefits exist in the other scenario, our QB position is downgraded, and we probably have to trade a pick to acquire a decent backup QB.

This way, Favre does wrong by every single quarterback on the roster and causes a media circus besides.

How so? I can see how he'd somewhat be doing wrong by Rodgers by coming back, but no one would have blinked if Favre had just announced he was returning, so really, what's the difference? Some disappointment? Please.

Brohm probably doesn't get drafted by Green Bay if Favre announces a return in March, so he's made money off Favre's retirement and the worst-case scenario is he's 3rd string instead of 2nd this year, which would actually probably be a good thing.

Flynn probably gets cut if Favre returns, so you could make a case that Favre would be doing wrong by him. Then again, Green Bay only carried two QBs last year, so it wouldn't be a shocker if he doesn't make the team anyway. It's probably more likely than not he ends up on the practice squad this year, which would probably be the case if Favre returns as well.

Which they wouldn't have done if he could ever make up his mind. For two or three years now, maybe even longer, we've gone through this question with Favre: will he retire, or won't he? And each year all he ever had to was say, "Look fellas, I still want to play football." Instead every year he waffles.

He waffled so much that last year he announced he was coming back before the Super Bowl. The year before they were coming off a 4-12 season and there was a new coach coming in. Pretty reasonable to take some time to figure out if you want to keep playing after that, no?

You think there aren't these same issues with a lot of older players? The difference is that Favre is more visible than everyone else in this position and--to his detriment--he'll talk to the media about his situation. He doesn't give the canned quotes lots of other guys do.

Can I point out that after the Broncos won their first Super Bowl, John Elway didn't announce he was returning until June 1st. Then he didn't decide he was retiring until mid-April the following year (It was announced May 2nd).

Steve Young also didn't retire until mid-June.

Can you blame the organization for getting tired of it?

In some ways yes and in some ways no. It would be nice to have had him commit to play 2 or 3 more years, but what player would actually do that? It's not unique for an older player to reevaluate his situation after each season. I think Favre legitimately thought he was done after 2006, but that last winning streak made him believe there might be something to this team. Then there was a very emotional end to this past season...I have no doubts it's hard to think about going through all that preparation again.

I know at the end of seasons I, as a fan, sometimes wonder why I invest so much into games that don't really mean anything in the grand scheme. I wonder why I care so much about the regular season when it means nothing as long as you make the playoffs. Then, come the draft, I can't wait for things to get going again. And that's just me being a FAN.

The draft is too important to be in a position of not knowing what your marquee player is gonna do.

But...but...we would've been just fine (and not just fine, better off) if Favre had announced he was coming back and then retired at the last moment, right? So I'm not sure how you make that argument.

And the Broncos sure didn't push Elway to make his decision...he didn't announce a comeback until June, well after the Draft. That's the proper thing to do with your legendary quarterback. At least, if you want him back.

I doubt the Packers pressured him to retire. But I absolutely believe the Packers pressured him to make up his mind.

I don't think they pressured him to retire either. But there ya go. They pressured him to make up his mind. He did the responsible thing and retired since he wasn't 100% committed to playing again. Now he realizes he made the wrong choice. To me, if you've got a guy that has a hard time making up his mind, the LAST thing you want to do is pressure him into making a decision quickly. We're supposed to be surprised that this ended up happening?

From MannysBetter:

I will use a Packer comeback here, and say "Why would the Packers pressure the starting QB of a team 1 play away from the Super Bowl to retire?"

I never said the Packers pressured him to retire. Just that they pressured him to make up his mind and subsequently, he did the responsible thing and called it quits, since he wasn't 100% sure.

In hindsight, he should've said, "I need more time to make up my mind," but then the same jagoffs who are calling him a selfish prick would be talking about how he was "holding the team hostage". The only way Favre wins is to make a decision that he can stick with. And telling him "Make it quick" isn't the best way to go about that.

I still question why Favre "retired" when he has said he never feels like playing at that time of year. It doesn't make sense to me. Now, the Packers are faced with a dilemma between loyalty, and a business move.

It makes perfect sense to me. Green Bay wanted an answer, so he gave them one. He wasn't 100% committed to returning, so he couldn't say he was coming back.

It's an ugly situation and it could've been avoided by simply saying, "Brett, take your time, don't think about football for awhile, and let us know when you decide. We'd appreciate hearing from you before the Draft, but take the time you need to make a good decision that you'll stick with."

Edited by Packer487

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After retiring in early March, Favre told the Packers he was having second thoughts and was ready to return a few weeks later. General manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy had made plans to take a private plane to Mississippi to seal the deal on Favre's comeback, only to have him change his mind again and stay retired.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3490792

I've always been a Favre fan, but I have to admit this is getting a little ridiculous, and is reflecting poorly on him. I was pretty hard on Niedermayer for his antics, and as much as I like Favre, he's doing a pretty similar thing.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3490792

I've always been a Favre fan, but I have to admit this is getting a little ridiculous, and is reflecting poorly on him. I was pretty hard on Niedermayer for his antics, and as much as I like Favre, he's doing a pretty similar thing.

Yeah, ESPN/AP keeps running with that quote. Based on the stuff in the local papers, the interview with Favre, the Packers timeline, and the quotes from TT and MM, I don't believe he ever actually told them "I'm coming back" in March. I think he told them he was having second thoughts, they were going to go talk to him about it, they asked if he was 100% committed and he said no, so they called it off.

I still don't see what's so wrong about changing your mind before training camp even starts. It's not like he's asking to come back Week 12 of the regular season (Niedermayer) or for the start of the playoffs (Forsberg).

They didn't give him the time he needed to make up his mind. He screwed up by not telling them "I need more time". (But then he'd come across as the jag who was "holding the team hostage".) It's not unprecedented for teams to give their QB until the start of training camp to make up their mind. Elway got until June and it disrupted their offseason plans so much that they went out and won the Super Bowl. Young had until mid-June. He's not a QB, but Strahan didn't even come in until after the preseason last year. Gilbert Brown used to take until at least the start of training camp to announce if he was coming back because he hated the offseason stuff.

I wish Favre had handled things differently, but the team could have done a lot of things differently as well. He'll be in town for Frank Winters and Gilbert Brown's Packer Hall of Fame induction this weekend. I imagine there will be a sit-down with TT and MM at some point. Hopefully they can put their differences aside, but I'm not counting on it.

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I still don't see what's so wrong about changing your mind before training camp even starts. It's not like he's asking to come back Week 12 of the regular season (Niedermayer) or for the start of the playoffs (Forsberg).

They didn't give him the time he needed to make up his mind. He screwed up by not telling them "I need more time". (But then he'd come across as the jag who was "holding the team hostage".) It's not unprecedented for teams to give their QB until the start of training camp to make up their mind. Elway got until June and it disrupted their offseason plans so much that they went out and won the Super Bowl. Young had until mid-June. He's not a QB, but Strahan didn't even come in until after the preseason last year. Gilbert Brown used to take until at least the start of training camp to announce if he was coming back because he hated the offseason stuff.

That maybe but #4 has tranished his legacy by flip flopping and coming across as an attention *****. And the Packers have hurt their organization by not having a clear cut plan on what to do with #4. To say that they are set with Rodgers as their starter and dont need #4, even if he was available and wanted to play for GB, is absurd. #4 has earned the right to be the GB starting QB, regardless who is next in line. And if the Packers dont want him back, then let #4 get whatever he wants, including his unconditional release.

Shame on #4! Shame on the Packers!! Hope everything gets straighten out quickly. Someday soon, they will have to recongize #4's accomplishment, ie retiring #4, NFL HOF.

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From MannysBetter:

I never said the Packers pressured him to retire. Just that they pressured him to make up his mind and subsequently, he did the responsible thing and called it quits, since he wasn't 100% sure.

I never said you did, I was just replying to BRTD. I will admit, you have almost pushed a few times through out this thread to jump on the other side of the fence with you because of your passion for Favre...I cannot disrespect that.

But I'm going to try and stop posting about this because neither side can change what happened. Both sides probably should have done things a little different, but overall I am just getting annoyed big time by this when I watch TV, or read the paper.

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That maybe but #4 has tranished his legacy by flip flopping and coming across as an attention *****. And the Packers have hurt their organization by not having a clear cut plan on what to do with #4. To say that they are set with Rodgers as their starter and dont need #4, even if he was available and wanted to play for GB, is absurd. #4 has earned the right to be the GB starting QB, regardless who is next in line. And if the Packers dont want him back, then let #4 get whatever he wants, including his unconditional release.

He hasn't hurt his legacy. Short-term, maybe. Long-term, no one will remember or care. The only way it would be more than a footnote on his career is if he took a team to the Super Bowl.

Playing for Washington in no way has hurt Jordan's legacy.

Playing for Carolina didn't hurt Reggie. Hell, I'm as big of a Packer fan as there is an I barely remember that that happened.

Coaching Washington didn't hurt how Lombardi is revered in Green Bay (even though he retired and then came out of retirement to take over the Redskins).

The only reason people will remember that Bourque played for the Avs is that he won a Cup. He'll be a Bruin forever.

Namath made an ill-advised decision to play for the Rams...no one mentions that now.

Plenty of guys have flip-flopped on retirement. Pretty much everyone (the Packers included) expected this at some point. That act in it of itself isn't attention whoring (though I do think Brett does some of that--if nothing else, he's just way too honest with the media), it's the life of a high-profile athlete faced with the prospects of walking away for good.

I never said you did, I was just replying to BRTD. I will admit, you have almost pushed a few times through out this thread to jump on the other side of the fence with you because of your passion for Favre...I cannot disrespect that.

Ah ok, misunderstood what you meant by "a Packer comeback".

I appreciate what you said, though.

Picking between the Packers and Favre would be like asking a parent to pick between their kids. I don't want to have to do it this season.

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He hasn't hurt his legacy. Short-term, maybe. Long-term, no one will remember or care. The only way it would be more than a footnote on his career is if he took a team to the Super Bowl.

Think again. Barry Sanders was beloved in this town. WAS is the key word because with his sudden retirement, there are some people that still have ill will towards him. You dont think it will hurt his legacy now, but it will once everything is settled.

The other comparisons are BS because they all left and returned in good terms. This is not on good terms.

Oh and the better NFL comparison isnt reggie white, but emmitt smith. Reggie to me, is best known as an Eagle...not a Packer.

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Think again. Barry Sanders was beloved in this town. WAS is the key word because with his sudden retirement, there are some people that still have ill will towards him. You dont think it will hurt his legacy now, but it will once everything is settled.

The other comparisons are BS because they all left and returned in good terms. This is not on good terms.

Oh and the better NFL comparison isnt reggie white, but emmitt smith. Reggie to me, is best known as an Eagle...not a Packer.

Barry retired on the eve of training camp and completely screwed the team over the process. If he had up and retired at the start of the offseason, people would have been like, "Yeah, can't blame him. The Lions suck!"

Favre has done nothing wrong.

No one is going to remember this 20 years from now, especially if he doesn't end up playing for another team. But even if he does, in the long run, no one is going to care.

You want to bring up Emmitt Smith, fine. Does anyone really remember--or care--about him ending his career as a Cardinal? Honest-to-God, I forgot about it until someone posted a picture of him in a Cardinals uniform on another board.

I'm not going to argue with you if you personally remember Reggie as an Eagle. He was a 7-time Pro Bowler with the Eagles and a 6-time Pro Bowler with the Packers. He was certainly more dominant in Philly, but he had some amazing years with the Packers as well. In terms of what team he'll be remembered with, I give the edge to Green Bay because I'm biased because of the Super Bowl win and the images of him walking off the field holding the trophy high in the air.

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Favre has done nothing wrong.

Nonsense.

You make a strong case for Favre - I'm finding it mostly not worth arguing about because ultimately I don't like either party. I have a hard time "picking sides" because of my deep and abiding dislike for the Packers and most everything associated.

(And now that the Vikings have been dragged into it with tampering charges: wheeee! I hope they lose draft picks. Just because.)

BUT....."Favre has done nothing wrong".....NO. Favre has not handled this well at all and has been wrong ever since he put the Packers in this position. Gene Wojceoiergjerfheruohfkowski on ESPN says Favre has earned the right to act this way because of how good he is. No. Favre has earned the right to walk out of the game on his own terms, which he did. He now wants back on his own terms. This isn't similar to the Barry Sanders retirement, it's more like the 2nd Hasek-go-round with Cujo.

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