The Great Brett Favre Kerfuffle of 2008

[Icteria virens 11]

I'm probably 1 of the very few (in the state of Wisconsin) who isn't a fan of the guy, & my beef with Favre is that he was contemplating retirement for quite some time before he finally did "retire" this past spring - mind you after what was a damn fine season.

IMO both sides are looking a bit suspicious with their intentions; hard to judge from the media as to who's the "good guy", & who's the "bad guy" in this mess.

I've never been a fan of the guy either, that makes 2 of us. I bet we're about the only ones in the state though. the sad thing is he knows he can pull this crap because everybody in the state is so Packer-crazy that they'll fall on a sword defending him no matter what. It's been that way through his whole career. No matter how many times he chucks the ball up into triple coverage people will always make excuses for him. This isn't LA or New York. GB is more like Lincoln, NE or Iowa City, IA.

here's a time line of events.

He's pulled this "will I , won't I retire" for the last 3-4 years. He's been a QB in the NFL for 17 years and by now knows what it entails to go through all the motions that come with it. This year especially he's had trouble deciding if he wants to come back to a 13-3 team that was a few points from going to the Super Bowl. Hard decision?

Over the last 3-4 years during the offseason Packers management has made annual trips down to talk with him and convince him to come back the next year. They have also regularly called him to keep in touch. Maybe the Packers management didn't go down enough times to kiss his robe this year or just got sick of doing it. Either way he feels "unimportant" and "not needed". I'm not sure what happened to him as a boy but somebody didn't love him enough.

He decides to retire and has a press conference on March 3rd saying he's "just got nothing left to give" and his heart isn't in it anymore.

In late March, only about 3 weeks later, he calls up Packer management and says he's had a change of heart and wants to come back. Packers management say "OK" and charter a private jet to go to MS for the press conference. Sidenote: to all the conspiracy theorists out there about how Ted Thompson (GM) and the Packers Management etc. don't want him anymore and are trying to run him out of town please explain this.

Just 2 days, yes 2 days, later he calls up the Packers and says he's changed his mind again and wants to stay retired.

Mid-April the NFL Draft comes and the GB Packers are moving ahead and draft accordingly.

OTA's and mini camps (which Favre, in the later stages of his carreer, never wanted to attend and had to be told to attend by coach McCarthy) are undertaken by current Packer players with new plays & formations put in and practised with Aaron Rodgers as QB.

July 20th. Brett Favre calls up coach Mike McCarthy and says he's thinking of coming back. Mike McCarthy asks Brett if he's 100% committed to that and Brett Favre answers "No". This is in his own words BTW from part 1 of the Greta Van Sustren interview.

Brett's brother and mother start talking to the media about him and how he wants to come back. Certain statements are leaked to friendly MS press and rumours start flying. This causes alot of panic and talk here in WI among his many long-time fans. The only 'response' by Brett to all this for days on end is a 3 word text message to a friendly reporter in MS "It's all rumour". Thanks #4 for all the help in clearing this all up (sarcasm) Don't the fans deserve more?

His agent James "bus" Cook asks the Packers to unconditionaly release him. This would be the worst thing the Packers could do and refuse.

The Packers ask Bus Cook for a list of teams he'd like to play for - Brett Favre and his agent have yet to supply the Packers with this list.

His wife DeAnna emails Greta van Sustren of Fox News and Brett appears on her show over 3 nights July 14-16th. He admits he still doesn't know if he'll play or if he'll reapply for reinstatement. On the 3rd show (outtakes of things edited out of the first 2 programs) he admits to telling management that they should've signed Randy Moss, not let 2 OL go to other teams and that the Packers should've interviewed his personal friend Steve Mariucci for the head coaching position 2 years ago. Sounds to me like he thinks he's also the GM.

The GB Packers file tampering charges against the Minnesota Vikings near the end of this week. There is said to have been not only phone calls between Brett Favre and Favre's friend Darren Bevell of Minn. but between Favre and head coach Brad Childress. There is also suppossedly conversation between Minn. Viking personnel and a staffer for the Packers. There is said to be valid evidence of tampering. In fact, some have suggested that the interest that Minn. has shown in Favre has prompted him to seriously think about playing again as they are thought to strongly desired his services.

There is also a report of Brett Favre having dinner with the Tampa Bay Bucs GM, one of the teams he's been linked with. Brett Favre states to a Tampa area newspaper that he's not "too hot" on Tampa Bay as a team of destination as he "prefers a cool climate". Was this last comment made to seem like he doesn't want out of cold Green Bay? Did anybody see his face during the Chicago game this past season? Do you realise that during the first 30 games of his career where the temp was under 30 degrees he lost only a few of those games and over the last 30 games where the temp is below 30degrees he's 8-22?

As of today he is yet to apply for reinstatement and doesn't know if he will. Well,,,,,,,, then what was all this "4" anyway?

He is not bigger than the team, no player ever has been. We've had alot of great players wear the green and gold: Hutson, Hinkle, Canadeo, Blood McNally, Hubbard, Michalske, Herber, Starr, Ringo, Taylor, Davis, Thurston, Nitschke, Wood, Hornung, Gregg, Adderly, Jordon, Lofton, White.

[Packer487 3]

There is also a report of Brett Favre having dinner with the Tampa Bay Bucs GM, one of the teams he's been linked with. Brett Favre states to a Tampa area newspaper that he's not "too hot" on Tampa Bay as a team of destination as he "prefers a cool climate". Was this last comment made to seem like he doesn't want out of cold Green Bay? Did anybody see his face during the Chicago game this past season? Do you realise that during the first 30 games of his career where the temp was under 30 degrees he lost only a few of those games and over the last 30 games where the temp is below 30degrees he's 8-22?

There are a few things in this post that I don't really agree with, but I've gone through it all before, so that's cool...

I believe the thing about him having dinner with the Tampa GM has been debunked. It would've come out by now if the Packers had given him permission for that, and if the Bucs were trying to do it secretly, I highly doubt they would've taken one of the most high-profile athletes in the world out to dinner at a busy restaurant. This story has made the rounds, so I'm guessing if it was true, Minnesota wouldn't be the only club to have tampering charges filed against them.

As for the <30 degrees stat, there's absolutely no way that's correct--or even close to correct. The New York Post has his all-time <34 degree stat at 42-11 (It'd be 42-12 after the Giants game).

According to his official site, he's 40-5 at home in the cold. I don't know when that was last updated, but there's no way he's played that many cold-weather road games (especially with Detroit and Minnesota having domes).

[Hiei 192]

Favre + Detroit's #1 pick WRs over the last few years = 60-70 pts a game. Might rival the Pistons in scoring.

Sorry, I'll take my BEARS any day of the week.

I don't care if they go 2-14...so long as the 2 are over the PACKERS!

[wingsdiehard13 33]

Let me rephrase. Favre has done nothing wrong by deciding that he wants to play football again. I agree that he could have handled things differently, as could the Packers. It seems there's been a major lack of communication between the parties throughout this situation, which has made it a lot worse than it should have been.

The biggest breakdown was that if the Packers truly would have been open to him taking until training camp to make up his mind, they should have communicated that to Brett.

I'm really interested to see how this tampering thing plays out...To see who called who and when. The "when" is the biggie for me.

It wasn't tampering for one. And two, if it was a Packers issued cell phone, that's against the CBA

[Icteria virens 11]

Brett Fahhvvv raahhhh is overrated................................. he's not even the best QB to ever play for the Packers. .......

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Brett Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Fellow Packer star quarterback Bart Starr, above, was 9-1.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com.

[timothy1997 0]

Whatever happens from here, the Packers organization has shown poor management skills in handling this #4 siituation. If #4 wants to play, let him play. Who is Green Bay to fly down to Mississippi with a $20 million check to #4 and tell him to go away. Let #4 play for whomever he wants to play for. He has earned it.

[Icteria virens 11]

Whatever happens from here, the Packers organization has shown poor management skills in handling this #4 siituation. If #4 wants to play, let him play. Who is Green Bay to fly down to Mississippi with a $20 million check to #4 and tell him to go away. Let #4 play for whomever he wants to play for. He has earned it.

god I just love the media this is the same thing that was offered to Dan Marino by the Dolphins at the end of his stay there as well. He wanted to stay on and the Fins wanted to move on, don't you remember he almost (ironically) became a Viqueen? this is NOT a bribe it a contract that he will remain a part of the organization with appearances at functions and other stuff.

another and more important point, this isn't the first time they offered Favre this deal. The first was back in March *after* he retired, for the whateverteenth time , it was 10 years 10million, the only change is they've doubled it.

I don't like the Packers management doing this as I hope he goes away and never comes back, I don't even want his jersey retired. He went on national television and badmouthed the GM and the organization as a whole. He said he doesn't want to cause a circus but here we are - again. There is no doubt he wants to play for our rivals. He's vindictive and spitefull and an egomaniac and I'm glad some Packer fans are finally finding out the real BF. No I wasn't spurned for an autograph or anything like that, just feel he's overrated and has gotten too big for his britches. Plus I've had to listen to Favre fans, not Packer fans, make every excuse in the book when he throws one of his patented INT's.

If anything, the Packers management has been nothing but nice, saying he'd be welcomed back in the lockerroom. I hope they find he's not in condition, work him out for a long time alone and make him go through drills alone and then stick him on the practice squad. Brohm #2 and Flynn #3. The only thing he's earned is that he's under contract for 3 more years.

How soon we forget, a few years ago when the Pack failed to sign Randy Moss that offseason there were rumours that his agent requested a trade b/c BF wanted RM at Lambeau. He's wanted out for a long time. He doesn't like the moves the team made letting 2 OL go, he was angry that they didn't interview his buddy Steve Mariucci for the coaching job 3 years ago. He's been angry for awhile but he's a player, not the GM.

[Packer487 3]

god I just love the media this is the same thing that was offered to Dan Marino by the Dolphins at the end of his stay there as well. He wanted to stay on and the Fins wanted to move on, don't you remember he almost (ironically) became a Viqueen? this is NOT a bribe it a contract that he will remain a part of the organization with appearances at functions and other stuff.

The Dolphins also released Marino when they didn't want him anymore and he was free to sign with whatever team he wanted. Plus he sucked at the end of his Dolphins career. Favre was the 2nd best player in the league last year.

another and more important point, this isn't the first time they offered Favre this deal. The first was back in March *after* he retired, for the whateverteenth time , it was 10 years 10million, the only change is they've doubled it.

So they doubled the offer once it became evident that he wanted to play football again. And this isn't a form of a bribe how? I appreciate they're trying to have a longterm relationship after football, but the timing is really suspect.

I don't like the Packers management doing this as I hope he goes away and never comes back, I don't even want his jersey retired.

Very mature.

He went on national television and badmouthed the GM and the organization as a whole.

He said he doesn't want to cause a circus but here we are - again.

Orrrr just the GM. Has he said anything negative about Murphy, McCarthy or the Board of Directors?

Which the Packers have created by telling him he can't come back. Favre changed his mind. It happens quite often when high-profile athletes retired. This is a non-issue if the Packers welcome him back like they should have. And he stayed away from training camp at the Packers' request so that he WOULDN'T cause a circus up there. That dildo.

There is no doubt he wants to play for our rivals. He's vindictive and spitefull and an egomaniac and I'm glad some Packer fans are finally finding out the real BF. No I wasn't spurned for an autograph or anything like that, just feel he's overrated and has gotten too big for his britches. Plus I've had to listen to Favre fans, not Packer fans, make every excuse in the book when he throws one of his patented INT's.

Whatever. The Vikings are the best fit for a QB who wants to start for a contender. And if my team didn't want me anymore, you're damn right I'd be looking to show them what they were missing out on. That's a natural reaction.

If anything, the Packers management has been nothing but nice, saying he'd be welcomed back in the lockerroom.

Yeah that's proven to be a really accurate statement. They're welcoming him back with open-arms. Orrrr they sent the team president down to MS to talk him into staying away and remaining retired.

I hope they find he's not in condition, work him out for a long time alone and make him go through drills alone and then stick him on the practice squad. Brohm #2 and Flynn #3. The only thing he's earned is that he's under contract for 3 more years.

#1) He's not eligible for the practice squad.

#2) If he could be placed on the practice squad, they'd have to release him first.

#3) If he made it to the practice squad, any team could sign him to their active roster at any time.

So yeah, that's a bang-up idea.

How soon we forget, a few years ago when the Pack failed to sign Randy Moss that offseason there were rumours that his agent requested a trade b/c BF wanted RM at Lambeau.

He requested a trade and then admitted that wasn't actually what he wanted. He was pissed. Someone, Lombardi I believe, used to fire people when they pissed him off. They'd get their job back when he cooled down. Bo kicked Brandstatter off the team when he was pissed at him one time. Clearly that didn't stick. People say things they don't mean when they're pissed off.

He's wanted out for a long time.

Yeah, requesting a trade for all of five minutes a year ago clearly = wanting out for a long time.

He doesn't like the moves the team made letting 2 OL go, he was angry that they didn't interview his buddy Steve Mariucci for the coaching job 3 years ago. He's been angry for awhile but he's a player, not the GM.

Did any Packer fan actually like the move of letting the guards go and replacing them with O'Dwyer and Klemm? It was smart to not sign Rivera and Wahle was pretty expensive and we didn't really have the cap room to bring him back thanks to Sherman's wonderful stretch as GM, but they replaced them with nothing. Favre had an interest in his offensive line. Amazing!

I agree that he shouldn't have brought that stuff up in the GVS interview, and that he probably should butt out on personnel matters, but he also didn't say anything that 90% of us weren't thinking.

[timothy1997 0]

I said it early on and i will say it again. This whole thing is sad and putting a sour note on what should be a hall of famers final chapter. #4's legacy is being tarnished by all of this. #4 and Pack organization to blame.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Good god Icteria virens, upset at Favre or not the last thing he is is overrated.

[Icteria virens 11]

Good god Icteria virens, upset at Favre or not the last thing he is is overrated.

perhaps you didn't read this...................

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Brett Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Fellow Packer star quarterback Bart Starr, above, was 9-1.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com.

he isn't even the best QB in Packers history....

[timothy1997 0]

To me the biggest accomplish from #4 isnt the super bowls or passing numbers, but its his long tenure at qb. In the NFL, qbs come and go, they get injuried. #4 is the true ironman in the NFL and toughness is the number one attribute I consider from #4.

..and I am a Lions fan.

[Icteria virens 11]

To me the biggest accomplish from #4 isnt the super bowls or passing numbers, but its his long tenure at qb. In the NFL, qbs come and go, they get injuried. #4 is the true ironman in the NFL and toughness is the number one attribute I consider from #4.

..and I am a Lions fan.

his streak is great, I simply can't say anything against him about that. That is to be admired and respected.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Icteria virens: Why is it that Favre gets all the blame for those postseason losses? The fact of the matter is that after 99, the team was blissfully mediocre at best every single year until 2007. I've read your comments, but you sure seem intent on blaming Favre for the teams problems yet you struggle to compliment Favre on the teams advances past the Superbowl season.

BTW, Comparing World Championships to Superbowls isn't apples to oranges given the amount of teams in the league back then.

Does Favre make poor passing decisions: absolutely. However, he's got loads of talent and last season showcased that since he finally got a balanced team around him.

[Icteria virens 11]

Icteria virens: Why is it that Favre gets all the blame for those postseason losses? The fact of the matter is that after 99, the team was blissfully mediocre at best every single year until 2007. I've read your comments, but you sure seem intent on blaming Favre for the teams problems yet you struggle to compliment Favre on the teams advances past the Superbowl season.

BTW, Comparing World Championships to Superbowls isn't apples to oranges given the amount of teams in the league back then.

Does Favre make poor passing decisions: absolutely. However, he's got loads of talent and last season showcased that since he finally got a balanced team around him.

how many times did they make the PO's after 99? blissfully mediocre? no way. How many times did they lose at Lambeau field? Something that never happened before. He only tied the record for INT's in a PO game at St Louis with 5, FIVE picks in one PO game! Big picks against Phila and NY Giants : when the pressure is on he's horrible. The only season I knew for sure he'd come back was last year, even though they sucked royally he was so close to all those records he just had to. I knew it. He can come back from a 3-13 team when there's records to be broken but doesn't want to come back to a 13-3 team.

Bart Starr played without the benefit of wildcard games and a watered down league. If you really want to discredit his accomplishments then by that token you'd better email the GB Packers and let them know they're only 3 time Champions because they weren't called "Super Bowls" back then. In fact the first 2 weren't called SuperBowls either so I guess that leaves us with XXXI.

heck, while you're at it email Mr. Illitch (I know you're connected )and let him know 1936, 1937, 1943, 1950, 1952, 1954, 1955 don't matter either as there were fewer teams in the league back then. I mean, what's the cutting off period? When does the good football or hockey start? When are the championships valid? Only when ESPN says so?

Bart Starr has 5 Championships, one more than every other QB to ever play the game and 4 , FOUR more than Brett Favre. He thew 3 INTs in 10 PO games, 3 INT's out of 213 PO passing attempts. I seriously wonder where Favre would be without the benefit of the dink and dunk west coast offense he's run his whole career.

Last season he "showcased" his talent with a balanced team around him? Well , it ended the same way as it did in Phila just a few years ago on a suppossed "mediocre at best" team = with a horribly thrown INT into triple coverage of an NFL OT PlayOff game where a 17 year veteran has no business making. Do you realise on that throw against the Giants there were 4 WR running routes on that play? Every one of them was open except the guy he attempted to throw it to. yeah, he makes poor passing decisions allright, at the absolute worst times possible -- not the measure of greatness in my book.

This meme about how he gives them the best chance to win is BS, he had that chance last year and couldn't pull it out. He's done nothing in the PO's the last 10 years (3-7).

The 96 Packers were loaded with talent. I credit Reggie White with giving the franchise instand credability after coming to GB (with the Black players in the league) Think about all the Black free agents they got: Sean Jones, Seth Joyner, Santana Dotson, Desmond Howard (SB MVP), Andre Rison, Eugen Robinson. If Reggie doesn't come, they don't either. The defense was absolutely loaded. They game up only 12 more points all season than the 85 Bears.

[Packer487 3]

perhaps you didn't read this...................

No matter how many times you post it, it doesn't give Sal Paolantonio any credibility. The guy is a complete and utter douchenozzle.

how many times did they make the PO's after 99? blissfully mediocre? no way.

Five times. And all of those teams were the pure definition of mediocre save for last year's team.

The team that lost to Atlanta was decent (12-4 maybe) but by playoff time they were so beat up they weren't going anywhere. That team had nobody left.

The team that lost to Philly needed an absolute miracle to even make the playoffs. They had to have Josh McCown and the Arizona Cardinals score a TD on a 4th and 24 on the last play of the game. And as much as you want to blame that loss on Favre for a stupid pick, the game should've been won 8 times over by that point. Green was stopped short on a 4th and 1 for the first time the entire season, which would've given GB a 2 TD lead. Sherman went pucker pucker pucker on a 4th and 1 later in the game, which would've all but ended the game if they had converted. True to form, Bidwell blasted the punt into the endzone even though the Packers took a delay of game to give him more room to work. Then the defense gave up a 4TH AND 26, which would've ended the game. Then they proceeded to let the Eagles march right down and score. Also, after the Favre pick, the Eagles still moved the ball 20 or 30 yards before kicking that FG. That team didn't really have a defense.

The Minnesota loss (Randy Moss's mooning game) was a bad one and Favre played like hell, but that team wasn't going anywhere.

Ditto the team that lost to the Rams.

Last year's team was the only truly good one in the bunch, and even if you want to blame the loss on another Favre pick, again, there were another 13 things that could've swung the game in Green Bay's favor. Al Harris could've not gotten abused. Ryan Grant could've rushed for more than 28 yards. The offensive line could've made a hole or two. Brandon Jackson could've not run into his blocker when he had a sure TD (on a pass from Favre). Ruvell Martin could've not dropped a sure TD pass (from Favre). Jarrett Bush could've FALLEN ON THE ******* BALL instead of trying to run with it. The ref could have not kept a Giants' TD drive alive by negating Harris's pick for no reason whatsoever. Nick Collins could have not kept a Giants' TD drive alive by taking a dips*** late hit penalty when the Packers had stopped them on third down.....Shall I go on?

How many times did they lose at Lambeau field? Something that never happened before.

3 times. Not a good thing, but at the same time, the Packers were always GREAT under Lombardi and they didn't exactly play a ton of playoff games at home b/w Lombardi's era and Favre's era.

He only tied the record for INT's in a PO game at St Louis with 5, FIVE picks in one PO game!

I believe it was six, and you can blame Billy Schroeder for 3 of them, for popping the ball up in the air like it was a volleyball. Then once they were down by a good 15-20 points, it was pretty obvious GB was throwing.

The only season I knew for sure he'd come back was last year, even though they sucked royally he was so close to all those records he just had to. I knew it. He can come back from a 3-13 team when there's records to be broken but doesn't want to come back to a 13-3 team.

Actually, he does want to come back to a 13-3 team. Uncle Teddy doesn't want him to.

Bart Starr played without the benefit of wildcard games and a watered down league. If you really want to discredit his accomplishments then by that token you'd better email the GB Packers and let them know they're only 3 time Champions because they weren't called "Super Bowls" back then. In fact the first 2 weren't called SuperBowls either so I guess that leaves us with XXXI.

heck, while you're at it email Mr. Illitch (I know you're connected smile.gif )and let him know 1936, 1937, 1943, 1950, 1952, 1954, 1955 don't matter either as there were fewer teams in the league back then. I mean, what's the cutting off period? When does the good football or hockey start? When are the championships valid? Only when ESPN says so? .

Where the deuce did this rant come from? Who said anything about not counting Starr's championships?

Bart Starr has 5 Championships, one more than every other QB to ever play the game and 4 , FOUR more than Brett Favre. He thew 3 INTs in 10 PO games, 3 INT's out of 213 PO passing attempts. I seriously wonder where Favre would be without the benefit of the dink and dunk west coast offense he's run his whole career.

His teams were also amazing his entire career. Do me a favor and look up how many hall of famers he played with on offense and then do the same for Favre. Actually, I'll save you some time. Favre's number is ZERO. Also, Vince Lombardi....Mike Sherman? No difference there. Not that I ever saw him, but Starr was amazing. I don't get how that is a negative about Brett Favre though.

Last season he "showcased" his talent with a balanced team around him? Well , it ended the same way as it did in Phila just a few years ago on a suppossed "mediocre at best" team = with a horribly thrown INT into triple coverage of an NFL OT PlayOff game where a 17 year veteran has no business making. Do you realise on that throw against the Giants there were 4 WR running routes on that play? Every one of them was open except the guy he attempted to throw it to. yeah, he makes poor passing decisions allright, at the absolute worst times possible -- not the measure of greatness in my book.

He threw into single coverage and it wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw. Driver was open, and he was the first read. I'm sure you've seen the endzone shot that has all those guys running wide open. The only problem is that picture was taken well after he released the ball. Go back and watch the clip. Grant hasn't even cleared the OL when Favre throws the ball. The other two guys were kind of open (though not as much as it appeared) but Driver was open as well. When your first read is open, you don't check down to see if anyone else is MORE open. He made the right decision, but the ball was just underthrown. It happens. And when it's 30 below and the wind is going crazy, not having a shred of a running game isn't very helpful...

This meme about how he gives them the best chance to win is BS, he had that chance last year and couldn't pull it out. He's done nothing in the PO's the last 10 years (3-7).

Very convienently counting the Super Bowl loss to Denver but none of the other games that year. Bad teams tend to not win very many playoff games.

Also, I'd point out that aside from his Super Bowl season (where he had 3 TDs and 7 INTs in the playoffs), Peyton Manning is 3-7 in playoff games. No QB's playoff record is going to look very good if you cherry pick the worst teams he's played on. And the Packers haven't been very good since Holmgren left, save for this year. Good records once in awhile (largely thanks to their legendary QB) but not good teams.

The 96 Packers were loaded with talent. I credit Reggie White with giving the franchise instand credability after coming to GB (with the Black players in the league) Think about all the Black free agents they got: Sean Jones, Seth Joyner, Santana Dotson, Desmond Howard (SB MVP), Andre Rison, Eugen Robinson. If Reggie doesn't come, they don't either. The defense was absolutely loaded. They game up only 12 more points all season than the 85 Bears.

What's your point? That Super Bowl win shouldn't count because the Packers had a good defense? Well you can get rid of Brady's wins, Manning's win, Dilfer's win, Johnson's win, Roethlisberger's win...let's keep going. The Packers also had the #1 offense in the league, don't forget. And a big part of that was Favre throwing 39 TDs despite losing all his receiving threats midway through the season. He was on pace to break Marino's record until Brooks went down for the year and then Freeman and Chmura got hurt the next two weeks. When Terry Mickens is a starting WR.........

Also, they traded for Eugene Robinson. They gave up some white defensive end. Matt LaBounty or something like that?

Seth Joyner wasn't on the Super Bowl Championship team.

Andre Rison was claimed on waivers.

As for Desmond, his career was basically over. I don't think he came to the Packers because of the credibility Reggie White brought to them. It was more because the Packers offered a job and he was looking for one.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Packer487

[Guest Shoreline]

I can understand your irritation with the circus, Icteria virens, but it's damn clear you're giving Favre very little credit for the Packers accomplishments when he's the #1 reason they won any recent championships at all. If anything, it all looks like a rabid Favre bashing.

Being a 49ers fan, I had many years to hate Favre, but one thing even I realize is the man is likely the greatest QB of all time, to this point. Even in the years with a crappy team he still managed to play well. Being a passer, and being on an offense that has plans revolving around passing first, he's bound to throw interceptions, he's bound to make mistakes. And guaranteed a good portion are route mistakes by the target or a simple miscommunication between him and that player. Comparing him to Bart Starr in a completely different era of football is nonsense.

As has been shown many times, the best of QBs do well during the regular season statistically and individually. Good TEAMS win championships.

[dr_lobster 0]

When Steve Yzerman was retiring, can you imagine how odd it would be if he'd announced he was playing with the idea of playing for the Dallas Stars, or another team? I'm not looking for a football discussion, but Brett Favre's drawn out his "am I retiring?" situation for months -- since the Super Bowl, really. The Packers' franchise player, the face of their organization and literal hero for most of the state's sports fans -- chooses to put all this strain on the team he's carried for years, on the fans and teammates that've supported him. The Packers are seemingly so unhappy with the situation (they don't want him to be their starter), that they're offering him more than $20 million as a "marketing" payment to retire, essentially a bribe or "go away" fee.

When was the last time a Red Wing pulled that kind of stunt? Uwe Krupp? Brett Favre seems to think he's bigger than his team, and seeing his selfish, careless way he's treating his organization and fanbase only makes me grateful for the way players like Yzerman, Lidstrom...hell, Crosby, Ovechkin, Iginla, whoever, conduct themselves within our game. I know it's not a universal thing, but it's refreshing to have so many superstars that represent themselves well off the ice.

[drupha 0]

Completely different scenario. The Red Wings would've taken him back. Hell, if Stevie decides he's getting the itch right now, Illitch would sign him to put more fans in seats.

[Echolalia 2,961]

It makes me appreciate our organization alot. When players come here, they're treated with some serious class, so nobody would even want to pull this kind of stunt.

[wingnut40 176]

Hockey players have always been more level headed than most other athletes. Red Wings especially seeem to be extreamly classy. And when you see other sports players act like that, it does make you greatful to be blessed with such respectable players.

[Guest Shoreline]

Don't be quick to chastise Favre for his indecisiveness. He may have very well been pushed out the door. We don't know what went on in the office. It's a tough situation he's in, and I'm sure we all have been in those same situations where we are indecisive, for whatever reason.

Not even Steve Yzerman, in the TSN article related to what you're talking about, was hard on Favre, or Sakic, or Sundin.

Although, Hasek was pretty indecisive and made a pretty uncomfortable situation with the Wings and Cujo by coming back. Fedorov had his moment where he made it seem like he was indecisive, but in regard to staying on the team. It happens everywhere.

[Packer487 3]

I can understand your irritation with the circus, Icteria virens, but it's damn clear you're giving Favre very little credit for the Packers accomplishments when he's the #1 reason they won any recent championships at all. If anything, it all looks like a rabid Favre bashing.

Being a 49ers fan, I had many years to hate Favre, but one thing even I realize is the man is likely the greatest QB of all time, to this point. Even in the years with a crappy team he still managed to play well. Being a passer, and being on an offense that has plans revolving around passing first, he's bound to throw interceptions, he's bound to make mistakes. And guaranteed a good portion are route mistakes by the target or a simple miscommunication between him and that player. Comparing him to Bart Starr in a completely different era of football is nonsense.

As has been shown many times, the best of QBs do well during the regular season statistically and individually. Good TEAMS win championships.

Great post. I've actually thought that the 49ers should be a darkhorse in the Favre sweepstakes. No one has even mentioned them, but they've got a pretty solid team. I know they've put a lot of money into Alex Smith but he really isn't good. With Favre, that's a playoff team for sure.

I do love how the Favre-bashers tend to blame him individually for every big loss, but bring up the Super Bowl and it's "Oh! But they had the best defense in the league!"

A couple of other things I meant to mention last night in my last reply:

-If we're adding to Starr's lore by mentioning that he didn't "have the benefit" of wild card games and a watered-down league, then I suppose it would also be fair to mention that for the 1961 title, he had to win 1 playoff game (and OMG THE DEFENSE PITCHED A SHUTOUT!). For the 1962 title, he had to win 1 playoff game (and the defense gave up 7 points). For the 1965 title, he had to win 2 playoff games (and the defense gave up a combined 22 points). For the 1966 title, he had to win 2 playoff games. It was only in 1967 that he ended up having to win three.

For three of his titles, winning the NFC Championship was the equivalent of winning the Super Bowl. I definitely don't take anything away from those titles, but don't try to pretend that it was as hard to win a title back in those days as it is now.

-I'm also not sure that it's fair to call today's league "watered down". The players today are bigger, faster, stronger and the game is completely different. Come playoff time, you're playing against good football teams. Upsets really aren't that uncommon anymore. We've seen how many teams come out of the wild card round to end up winning the Super Bowl (Denver, NYG and Pittsburgh have all done it, I believe). Before a decade ago, I don't think that had ever occurred. I don't think it's watered down, I think the teams are more competitive. Hard to argue that's a "benefit" to Favre.

-Also, Favre has played in an era where it's very difficult to keep a successful team together long-term. There's only been 1 dynasty since the salary cap was implemented, New England.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Im tired of hearing about Favre.. and the only place where i think i can get away from the farve chat has it :|

[Anomalously 0]

Hasek, anyone?

Edit: Just saw Shoreline said something about this. It's very similar, IMO. Really tied the hands of the Wings' organization.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Anomalously