Who gets the 12th starting forward spot?

[LidsFan 68]

I really liked how Helm played in the playoffs and I would pick him to play instead of Maltby.

I love Aaron Downey and I want him to still be apart of the team. As for McCarty, I like him because he was a Red Wing for so long, but I don't think that he brings anything to the team. In the playoffs he was slow and took a lot of penalties. He is a great character guy, but not a good player anymore.

[redwing_sparty 0]

the problem is getting the enforcer into the line up. There are about 15 skilled forwards available and 2 guys who can pretty much only fight. and our d guys aren't really fighters.

[russianswede919293 95]

Darren Helm=Jonathan Ericsson

Meaning he is more than ready to be a starter on this team, but there are too many players under contract, and the fact that he can go to Grand Rapids without being exposed to waivers...That means he, like Ericsson and Howard, are not per say bound for Grand Rapids, but it will take one hell of a training camp to take their bags off that bus.

That being said I expect the rosters, t the start of the season to look like this (assuming Kopecky is ready:

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa

Cleary-Draper-Samuelsson

Hudler-Kopecky-Maltby

D-Mac

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lebda-Lilja

Quincey

Chelios

Osgood

Conklin

At first injury call ups are Helm or Ericsson

And they could even surplant somebody from the roster by years end, but they have the short end of the stick in the waiver exempt world of finding an apartment in GR.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

I don't like the idea of Hudler on the fourth line. We have lots of "fourth line talent." Hudler isn't good enough to break the top six on this team. If Hossa is going to be a long term option on this team, I think that Hudler needs to be traded while is value is high. If Hossa is one and done, Hudler needs to be on the second line. Now to the topic. Don't be surprised if Abdelkader has an amazing camp and plays his way onto this team. I expect to see Helm in GR until injuries start to pile up. Downey or Mac (hopefully Downey) will probably be #13 although I would like to see Maltby as a healthy scratch in about 30 games.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Darren Helm=Jonathan Ericsson

Meaning he is more than ready to be a starter on this team, but there are too many players under contract, and the fact that he can go to Grand Rapids without being exposed to waivers...That means he, like Ericsson and Howard, are not per say bound for Grand Rapids, but it will take one hell of a training camp to take their bags off that bus.

That being said I expect the rosters, t the start of the season to look like this (assuming Kopecky is ready:

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa

Cleary-Draper-Samuelsson

Hudler-Kopecky-Maltby

D-Mac

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lebda-Lilja

Quincey

Chelios

Osgood

Conklin

At first injury call ups are Helm or Ericsson

And they could even surplant somebody from the roster by years end, but they have the short end of the stick in the waiver exempt world of finding an apartment in GR.

Where do you see Meech?

[uk_redwing 495]

Where do you see Meech?

And where does he see Downey?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Why is Kopecky so overrated here?

He's never done anything aside from beating up Patrick Sharp and skating in circles every game. He looks like a bird which has trapped itself inside a dwelling when he's out on the ice.

Either Helm or any enforcer worth his salt should get a roster spot over him.

Then there's also Sammy, but that's a story for another day.

[russianswede919293 95]

I see Meech being let go in favor of keeping Lebda and Quincey, there is a 23 man limit. And I see McCarty over Downey so Downey in Grand Rapids if he is willing, and Meech in Grand Rapids if he makes it through waivers.

[russianswede919293 95]

Why is Kopecky so overrated here?

He's never done anything aside from beating up Patrick Sharp and skating in circles every game. He looks like a bird which has trapped itself inside a dwelling when he's out on the ice.

I think that at this point in his career Kopecky is un-met potential, but I see something in him that makes me think he could be a solid 4th line guy on this team, I hope he finds it. He was really starting to come around before the injury last season, and I think that is why I still want to see what he has left and not get rid of him.

[Dabura 12,232]

Then there's also Sammy, but that's a story for another day.

Sammy should play on the third, and I imagine he will.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

If Kopecky is unable to start the season inserting Helm as the 4 center makes the most sense at this point seeing as that guys like Franzen have played themselves off the 4th line for good. Unless Kopecky can't start the season I don't see Helm being on the team barring injuries simply due to the fact that he's best served down in GR where he'll get a ton of playing time.

Ignoring the top two lines:

Cleary-Drapes-Sammy

Hudler-Kopecky/Helm-Maltby/DMac/Downey

I do expect Maltby to sit (healthy scratch) against tougher teams.

Edit: Addition

Maltby out against tougher teams? huh what? he is one of our most consistant checkers and physical forces.. why would you take him out?

[uk_redwing 495]

Maltby out against tougher teams? huh what? he is one of our most consistant checkers and physical forces.. why would you take him out?

Because Maltby is a shell of his former self when it comes to physical play...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Here's how I see things, and this is just one imbecile's opinion here (which is probably a good thing ). Assuming Drake retires, and both McCarty and Downey are re-signed, and Hartigan finding a better opportunity with another team...

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Homer

Franzen-Flipper-Hossa

Cleary-Draper-Maltby

Hudler-?????-Samuelsson

That leaves the final spot for Kopecky, Helm, Downey, and McCarty. If there is a game against a "physical" or "goon" team, Downey or McCarty might get the nod. I think it is a safe bet though that Kopecky and Helm bring more overall to the table at their careers than Downey/McCarty at their careers.

The final spot depends largely on Kopecky's health and waivers I think. Can Helm go back down to Grand Rapids without having to worry about clearing waivers? If this is the case, then it might make sense for him to play every night in GR than play off and on with the Wings, even though we all know how damed good of an impression he made in the playoffs. I am assuming Kopecky is out of waiver options?

If Kopecky is around 100% during training camp/pre-season, I think it's just too close to call on whether he or Helm grabs the final spot. I think we all have an idea though that ACL injuries are extremely hard to come back from and play like your old self. We saw Fischer be inconsistent in 2003-04 after tearing his ACL, the same thing with Derian Hatcher the same year with his stint with the Red Wings. I also blew out my ACL and MCL years and years ago playing pickup basketball and even after successful reconstructive surgery over 4 years ago, I don't do any contact sports and my knee won't ever feel like it was healthy/100% before the tear, even though I'm the last thing from a professional athlete.

I'd love to see Kopecky get back healthy and try to be a regular again and I think the overall negative attitude towards him in here is overblown, but he's got the odds against him if he doesn't get close to fully healthy and Helm brings an encore performance after being solid in the playoffs.

[overHandright1 2]

As for McCarty, I like him because he was a Red Wing for so long, but I don't think that he brings anything to the team. In the playoffs he was slow and took a lot of penalties. He is a great character guy, but not a good player anymore.

I think that you are writing Mac's obituary a little prematurely. He only had about 4 months to get back into shape for the playoff run. He might surprise all of us in training camp.

Edited July 15, 2008 by overHandright1

[adtthosa 5]

I don't mind Kopecky, but Helm brings way more to the table. The way he played in the playoffs, I can't imagine us not playing him.

[greenrebellion 415]

A lot of people are putting Hudler on the fourth line, isn't that a waste of talent or am I missing something?

[redwing_sparty 0]

kopecky just isnt worth it. yes he's big but franzen is huge too and much better thus there isnt much need for kopecky. he had his chance last year and was unimpressive. helm is much more ready. there is also that finnish guy who is expected to compete for a spot in the line up. i have to say d-mac is worth more than downey b/c mac at least has an outside chance of scoring. i like downey but there is no worth beyond the fists. i have a feeling we will see a lot of different 4th line combos.

as for huds, i'd like to see him on the 3rd line instead of sammy. huds can't have a breakout season if he's stuck on the 4th line with maltby. hopefully he'll see some pp time and then if he can't cut it he'll have to go.

sammy i have to be nice to until he begins to screw up again, b/c he was huge in the finals.

[Dabura 12,232]

Sammy on the 3rd, Hudler on the 4th FTW. Sammy is a checking-line forward. He proved that playing on a line with Draper and Drake. Hudler would be a second-line player on a lot of other rosters, but right now, given the Wings' personnel, putting him on the fourth would make the most sense (assuming Flip comes back). He gives that line a scoring threat. In tight games, a slight edge like that (i.e., having a fourth line that's more dangerous than the opposing fourth line) can be the difference between winning and losing.

[SFwingsfan 23]

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how Darren Helm does not get a roster spot after that ******* sick performance against the best players in the league. His speed is unbelievable. People were chasing him all over the ice. He was getting chances and creating chances in very limited minutes. I look forward to this guy really maturing into a Cleary/Draper level player for years to come on this team.

[Dabura 12,232]

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how Darren Helm does not get a roster spot after that ******* sick performance against the best players in the league. His speed is unbelievable. People were chasing him all over the ice. He was getting chances and creating chances in very limited minutes. I look forward to this guy really maturing into a Cleary/Draper level player for years to come on this team.

I don't think he should be handed the spot, but overall I agree with you. I loved watching this guy at work; he plays a simple, by-the-numbers game with tenacity and consistency. And yeah, he's fast as hell.

[#19forPresident! 1]

Time, and their play, will tell. And it will be between more than those two, but they will have an edge having the experience.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Maltby out against tougher teams? huh what? he is one of our most consistant checkers and physical forces.. why would you take him out?

Because Maltby is a shell of his former self when it comes to physical play...

Thank you, and not to mention against tougher teams I'd like to see them play Downey or Mac to counter rather than the Maltby we see nowadays.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

A lot of people are putting Hudler on the fourth line, isn't that a waste of talent or am I missing something?

Not when you look at the Wings top 2 lines and the fact that the third will be used as a shutdown line. By your reasoning, isn't Cleary wasted on the third line?

[swiss_fan 3]

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how Darren Helm does not get a roster spot after that ******* sick performance against the best players in the league. His speed is unbelievable. People were chasing him all over the ice. He was getting chances and creating chances in very limited minutes. I look forward to this guy really maturing into a Cleary/Draper level player for years to come on this team.

That s the problem with the wing's system. We don t give players enough confidence. If i were a player who are rooting in the AHL instead of playing for sure in any other team of the NHL i m not sure i would appreciate it so much.. After that you undertand more easily the face McGollum made when he was selected by the Wings organization at the draft...

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

A few people seem to think that splitting up Dats and Z will be a good idea, but dont forget their amazing points totals last year came with each other. They're perfect together, dont take an idiot to notice that they have far superior points totals to Homer. They need to be together. I'm torn though whether to put Hossa with them. As for 12th spot, I think keep Helm in GR, it will make him hungry to get back, I mean first year really challanging in NHL and he wins the Stanley Cup. Now he's put back in GR, he's gonna want it. Kopecky wont be available for the beginning of the season so I recon its Downey's spot, DMac may have to settle for a non-playing spot with the view to come in with injuries. I think it will be good for DMac also, he's been through a lot and may not be able to deal with a full season.

Just a few thoughts.