Giving up too many goals

[union drone 0]

If you look at the shot chart on ESPN, three of those goals with the exception of the one banked off Ozzy were scored right in the slot. The Rangers could carry the puck in front of the net virtually untouched for most of the game. That's got to change.

One thing that we can take solice in is the fact that despite the Wings looking pretty ordinary, they managed to be 3-1-1. Once they wake up and start playing like the team we all know and love, life will be rosey again.

Certainly the Wings have some adjustments to make... and they will make them... in the mean time we should all realize that things could be far worse.

[Guest DetroitBoy313]

Once they wake up and start playing like the team we all know and love, life will be rosey again.

What if they don't wake up? What if they NEVER EVER WAKE UP?!?!?! OMG!!!!

[Glubki 17]

One thing that we can take solice in is the fact that despite the Wings looking pretty ordinary, they managed to be 3-1-1. Once they wake up and start playing like the team we all know and love, life will be rosey again.

Certainly the Wings have some adjustments to make... and they will make them... in the mean time we should all realize that things could be far worse.

Exactly....

Nice avatar by the way - M is one of my favorite foreign films...

[maltbymaniac 13]

What if they don't wake up? What if they NEVER EVER WAKE UP?!?!?! OMG!!!!

thats not possible.....right

[CdnWingsFanEh 2]

I'm actually a little curious what is going on with the team. The defence in particular. They've looked less than great. I know a year older etc, but Listrom himself hasn't really impressed me like his normal self so far. I don't want to say he's been out of position a lot, but he hasn't been ahead of the other teams forwards like he has in the past. Just curious, does anyone think the addition of a visor has anything to do with his play at all, or am I just looking for excuses?

Note: like someone above mentioned, it's nice when your team is playing poorly, and they are 3-1-1! :!:

[Guest mindfly]

Lidsss remove that visor nowwwww.. i think they're just being politically correct saying that it doesn't bother them and eveyone should wear them blabla, its obvious if a non-visor player switch to visor he will not get used to it instantly.. probably takes a few years... so best thing to do is probably to start with visor at 18 and stick with it... Jonathan Ericsson should also start wearing one cause if he ends up getting a puck there or something and is forces to use visor he will not be the same ericsson for some time... thats what i think

Edited October 19, 2008 by mindfly

[chrisdetroit 189]

Hasek wasn't Hasek last playoffs, and he has retired, so we may just want to move on.

I tend to agree with many others here about the sheer number of shots the Wings are allowing on net this season so far. The Wings have not needed their goalie to stop 30+ shots a night. There was only one goal that I would classify as a "bad goal" last night, and that was the one that was scored from behind the net when Ozzie didn't seal off the short side and the puck bounced off his elbow and in.

Last night the Wings allowed 32 shots on goal. Last season they allowed an average of 23.5 SOG/game and allowed 2.18 goals/game. If you extrapolate the numbers to allowing 32 SOG, then there should have been 2.96 goals scored- with the one bad goal that equals 3.96 (or 4, because you can't score 4 hundredths of a goal).

Why is it that when the team is playing really well and clicking that it is the team doing it, but when the team isn't playing well that it is an individual's fault?

I find it funny that people often pick on the wrong people. If you look hard enough, I am sure you could finds a case for replacing just about every one of these guys for one reason or another.

I think that Babcock knows what he is doing, and that Ozzie wouldn't do anything to hurt the team. Babs will pull Ozzie if he feels that his play is a detriment, and I think Ozzie would venture so far as to pull HIMSELF if he wasn't able to perform.

Let's not get too crazy here. We have 7 out of a possible 10 points so far this season. That works out to 114.8 points for the season at the current pace. How many points did we have last season? 115. Kinda looks like we are on the same pace- just going through a bit of a tough time getting things together. The Wings aren't dominating the other teams like last year so far. Give 'em time.

Ok let's think about what you said. Last year they AVERAGED 23.5 shots against/game. Averaged means that you take all 82 games and well, average them. That include games against crappy teams like the Kings, Avs, etc. You would expect for them to not give up many shots against the crappy teams.

Last night they played the team with the best record in the NHL. Wouldn't you expect for them to give up more shots?

To compare a game against the Rangers to last seasons average...Well it's not a meaningful comparison.

[vangvace 12]

just have to score 1 more than the other guys on the bad nights

[auxlepli 17]

Scotty Bowman said you could tell how good a team is playing by the goal differential. The Wings' sucks right now. Plus two is disappointing for this team. The whole team is playing poorly right now - including Osgood and Conklin.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

I don't mind Osgood being the starter and he is certainly good enough as the starter for this team (fits the cap well). But if anything, I think it's starting to be obvious that Osgood is really a vulnerable spot for the Wings given defensive breakdowns. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does it's pretty obvious that Osgood isn't going to steal you any games.

[Yzermania 156]

Lidsss remove that visor nowwwww.. i think they're just being politically correct saying that it doesn't bother them and eveyone should wear them blabla, its obvious if a non-visor player switch to visor he will not get used to it instantly.. probably takes a few years... so best thing to do is probably to start with visor at 18 and stick with it... Jonathan Ericsson should also start wearing one cause if he ends up getting a puck there or something and is forces to use visor he will not be the same ericsson for some time... thats what i think

visors are a pain in the ass. In the league I'm playin in now, we HAVE to atleast have a half shield, so I wear just the typical clear visor. And between scratches and fogginh up, etc, I usually skate around with my helmet pulled up so the visor is above my eyes.

[union drone 0]

Exactly....

Nice avatar by the way - M is one of my favorite foreign films...

Thanks! M is one of those timeless classics.

[interminded 1]

I wonder if Dallas fans are trashing Marty Turco the same way ....

Pfff... 5 games played and the "Who Should Be The Starting Goaltender For The Detroit Red Wings Question" startedm already..

Is that a record ?

Okay, Ozzie hasn't been that spectacular, but if a team has given up 14 goals in 5 games, something went wrong looooooooong before that.

Let's not panic.

[RedWingedKitten 9]

I honestly don't remember the boards going this crazy in febuary of last year. Some of you forget that they are in fact the Red Wings... the same team that just made the playoffs 17 years strait, the same team that just put up 3 strait 50 win seasons, and the same team that consistently grabs the regular season by the haunches and humps it into submission. The Wings will sort out what ever problem they have, there's no reason to freak out.

[Dabura 12,232]

Ok let's think about what you said. Last year they AVERAGED 23.5 shots against/game. Averaged means that you take all 82 games and well, average them. That include games against crappy teams like the Kings, Avs, etc. You would expect for them to not give up many shots against the crappy teams.

Last night they played the team with the best record in the NHL. Wouldn't you expect for them to give up more shots?

To compare a game against the Rangers to last seasons average...Well it's not a meaningful comparison.

His post was fine, and his point about the team D (that it's not clicking) is right-on. It's one thing to give up a lot of shots because the team you're playing against is playing like a bat out of hell. But that wasn't really the case last night. What we saw last night was more of what we've been seeing since the home opener: sloppy, sloppy defense.

But it's early, and that'll improve.

[maltbymaniac 13]

i could be mistaken but i dont think anyones freaking out,i was just stating what i thought,and that is that i think we would be better off with a split like last year.i always roll with what we have and hardly ever and i mean ever complain,you said it,17 years in the playoffs 3 50 win seasons.3/4 of my life in the playoffs...im pretty sure thats unheard of any where else.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Osgood was never a "top 10 solid number 1 goalie". In fact, out of all the number ones out there, Osgood is closer to the bottom. However, he is a number one goalie, lets not think otherwise. He's proven that. But when people look at his stats from the past and see lowest goals allowed, tied for most shutouts in a season, top 5 save percentage, people have a tendency to credit Osgood with 100% of the effort put into getting those numbers, and assume he is one of the best goalies in the leauge. People forget about Lidstrom and Rafalski and Kronwall and Stuart and Konstantinov and Fisher and Chelios that were always in front of him filtering out all the good shots, and leaving him to save mostly fluff from the perimeter. Thats not to say that Osgood sucks, because he doesn't at all. But for whatever reason our team has gotten off to a slow start and Osgood is actually getting some tough stuff coming his way this year. Goalies like Lundqvist and Hasek and Belfour would be capable of standing on their head to make some of those impossible saves, but Osgood, not so much. He'll get a spectacular save in here and there (that glove save against Vancouver comes to mind), but a lot of people are in that mindset that he is just as good as all these elite goalies because his statistics from the past are right there with the elites, and freak out when more than 3 goals are scored on him. Like I said earlier, some people may forget that we have the number one defense in the league usually, and these other teams usually don't. (and im not mentioning any names, because I honsetly don't know who thinks what in these forums, i'm just mentioning something that I know is a problem with some people I know, and may or may not be a problem here)

At the same time, Osgood has definitely been performing below his skill level this year. That goal from behind the net last night should have never went in. The game winner from Vancouver should have never when in. Another goal from Vancouver when some guy (I forget his name) broke in on Filppula and Kronwall and scored from nothing should have never went in. Its not just the poor defense in front of Osgood and its not just Osgood. Everyone needs to improve, and if we're still having problems after everyone remembers how to give it 100%, then we can start talking about putting Conklin in more often. Until then, lets stick with Osgood.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Echolalia

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The defence is to blame. Osgood has given up 1 or 2 bad goals out of 14. The defence will get better as the season progresses, nothing to be worried about. Unless it doesnt come together the next little while, but I dont think it'll be a problem.

[06TJSport 0]

this forum cracks me up. I can't believe how much people over react on here

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Any team, especially the Red Wings, have the ability on a game by game basis, of making any goalie look really good, or really bad. Still, the goalie has to step up, if the team isn't clicking.

I will miss Dom. So will the Red Wings, I believe. But he's gone now, and I am grateful he got the hint and left. Another turn here would not have served him well, even though I believe he was capable of playing well, still.

Ozzie has to play better. I will stop short of posting his save percentage (.884) every day, as evidence of that -- unlike posters of yore who did that ad nauseum when Hasek was a Wing.

The Wings are giving up too many goals. It is partly an issue with the goalies. Conklin is no slouch. Ozzie needs to wake up. He's made a few nice saves, but he has to make the ones that count, too.

The only ones that count to fans are the ones he misses.....

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

I have notice this also, last year we were beating teams by 2 or 3 goals. This year were winning by one or losing by one.

[grsbmd 0]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I think starting the season out like this is actually a good thing for a couple reasons:

1. There's not nearly the pressure anymore to be the greatest team ever and break the regular season wins and points records.

2. The Wings aren't getting any of their wins for free at this point. They're almost re-learning how to win a hockey game. That's what they had to do February of last year, and I truly believe that without that losing streak, the Wings would never have won the cup. Times like this build experience. You have to learn what it takes to win, because there won't be any free wins in the playoffs.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Ok let's think about what you said. Last year they AVERAGED 23.5 shots against/game. Averaged means that you take all 82 games and well, average them. That include games against crappy teams like the Kings, Avs, etc. You would expect for them to not give up many shots against the crappy teams.

Of course that's what average means. This year they are averaging 28 shots allowed per game. Since that number is higher than last year's 23.5, it stands to reason that they are giving up more shots per game to ALL teams, not just "the team with the best record in the NHL".

Last night they played the team with the best record in the NHL. Wouldn't you expect for them to give up more shots?

Playing 2 more games than the nearest team, as long as you are a competent team, would allow you to amass more points, on average.

To compare a game against the Rangers to last seasons average...Well it's not a meaningful comparison.

If you take the numbers that I used here and compared them to the other teams as well, you would see that it goes across the board.

Since it appears that you had trouble reading my entire post, here is the Crib Notes version:

1. No more Hasek, so a moot point.

2. Goalie doesn't need to be the best in the league in the past, just needed to stop 20 or so shots.

3. Many more shots on goal= more goals scored.

4. Not a goalie issue, it's a team issue.

5. Babcock good coach, Ozzie team guy.

6. No one panic, we are actually on pace to equal last year's point total.

Edited for type-O

Edited October 19, 2008 by Mickeyisms Rule!

[The Mule 0]

When the defense stops collapsing on a regular basis, Ozzie will be fine. As for Conklin, I will admit I would like to see him get the start ever two or three games. He was very impressive in his debut, so why not give him another shot?

[Shaman 713]

As I said earlier we should rotate goalies atleast till the All star break, that way we dont burn out Ozzy, wonder why he was so good last year? He wasnt playing 50-60 games, so he was well rested... Its not like we dont have options in the goalie department, we have Conklin, Howard, and even Larrson I really personally believe Ozzy is his best when hes playing in important games not grinding out 50+ games a year.