esteef 2,679 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Isn't this what we heard all last year after losing to Anaheim the year before? How we need an enforcer otherwise we're never winning Stanley? Didn't convince anyone that's not true? and for the millionth time, didn't Downey play a sizeable portion of that SC season? esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Edit-towne. Edited January 18, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lidstromrules16 7 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 I don't know what game you guys were watching but I saw two things.Lebda's stupid ass play to push the net out of place when he obviously didn't have to which resulting in a pp goal by the Sharks.And a CLEAR offsides that should have been called but it wasn't.It was a game of inches last night.They didn't dominate us and we didn't dominate them.We scored 5 goals in their building and lost by ONE goal.You guys need to chill out,I wouldn't put too much into this game. They put Lebs in the box, but the San Jose coverage showed a replay of Filpula skating into the net and knocking it off when trying to get to the puck. It looked accidental to me, but whatever. And for Marleau's offsides goal, at first glance it looked offsides, but they never really mentioned anything about it, so I just assume it was a VERY close play, but it was onsides. Last night was a great game. The Wings were not "dominate" physically, but they do lack size, that Downie and McCarty really wont improve. Thats not to say the Wings need the size, cause they dont. San Jose is an amazing team with huge players who happen to be really talented. Anyone dissapointed in the wings play against IMO the favorites to win the cup this year, on the road, in the middle of a road trip, scoring 5 goals will never be pleased I guess. Although, Rafalski had a rough night. Sharks were hitting him left and right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j.hoop 64 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 They put Lebs in the box, but the San Jose coverage showed a replay of Filpula skating into the net and knocking it off when trying to get to the puck. It looked accidental to me, but whatever. And for Marleau's offsides goal, at first glance it looked offsides, but they never really mentioned anything about it, so I just assume it was a VERY close play, but it was onsides. Last night was a great game. The Wings were not "dominate" physically, but they do lack size, that Downie and McCarty really wont improve. Thats not to say the Wings need the size, cause they dont. San Jose is an amazing team with huge players who happen to be really talented. Anyone dissapointed in the wings play against IMO the favorites to win the cup this year, on the road, in the middle of a road trip, scoring 5 goals will never be pleased I guess. Although, Rafalski had a rough night. Sharks were hitting him left and right. right on the nose Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 and for the millionth time, didn't Downey play a sizeable portion of that SC season? esteef Was Downey in the lineup in the playoffs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Zetterberg and Lidstrom would beg to differ with you, and have done so on camera. And who the hell is McCarthy? esteef Sandy McCarthy. And why should we care what Zetterberg and Lidstrom say? If people on LGW say that fighting is detrimental, then it must be true, regardless of what anyone else said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Was Downey in the lineup in the playoffs? McCarty was. Ah, but I forgot that he's not an enforcer and apparently was not a part of the team at all. In other words, I contributed as much to the Cup win as McCarty did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenrikRules40 14 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Was Downey in the lineup in the playoffs? No I don't think he was. But wait! He did skate warm-ups with them. Does that count as sizeable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYags 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 No, I'm not convinced. In fact, I'm not even slightly swayed. Maybe next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 I didn't know having an enforcer would make our entire team much bigger and more physical. Thanks for letting me know. In life, people act tougher when they know they have backup in a fight. Same way in hockey. There's a reason why every other team in the league dresses an enforcer, and it isn't to amuse the fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted January 18, 2009 This would have been best for proof after a game with the Ducks beating up on Wing players. However, to the OP, you are very bad at picking your spots. San Jose isn't a goon team. Their style of play is physical and using big bodies to get to the net, but they can be beaten without the use of an enforcer. There was no indication versus San Jose that the Wings would ever need one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Crazy 201 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 We don't need an enforcer in the lineup. San Jose has Shelley and just what did he do last night that won the game for them.....hmmmm nothing. He looked like a turd on skates at best and Downey would have only looked the same. I will agree however that the Wings could use a bit more size on the 4th line and for the role players to be the role players. If you want to intimidate a team in this league you won't do it with two meatheads beating the crap outta each other at center ice, you need kronner to crush a top six forward in open ice. You need the 3rd and 4th lines to bang their d-men at every chance not to circle away all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 In life, people act tougher when they know they have backup in a fight. Same way in hockey. Exactly. Kind of how groups of youths always act tough with mates, but when theyre on their own they cower for mercy. I want to see Downey purely cos hes a legend, and everything he says is pure comedy genius And our 4th line sucks anyways...Maltby actually said in an interview earlier in the season that without a decent 4th line a team cant win a cup...how I bet he wishes he never said that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Players play with more grit when there's an enforcer in the lineup. You know, kind of like they did last year. It's harder to play a grittier game when you know that no one has your back in scrums or fights. That's why every other team has an enforcer and we don't. The argument that we can't give up a valuable roster spot to an enforcer is obsolete. Our 4th line is no longer valuable. Downey has demonstrated repeatedly that he can't really play hockey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 No I don't think he was. But wait! He did skate warm-ups with them. Does that count as sizeable? It was a rhetorical question So yeah, Mac was in the lineup. He had 19 PIM in 17 games, meaning he had a maximum of three fights with a couple of minors thrown in. I'm pretty sure that Mac wasn't playing in the SCF, so that means he had three fights through three playoff series. That doesn't make for a very good enforcer. As for the physicality and size argument, well, Mac is 6'1-210, bigger than most Wings, but he was playing limited fourth-line minutes at best, and the fourth-line physicality came from Dallas Drake, not Darren McCarty. I am totally in favour of getting a hungry, physical veteran to reinvigorate the fourth line. As for a fighter, the Wings have shown as recently as last year that they do not need anyone to play that role on their team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donaldjr2448 43 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Yes, Our 4th line SUCKED lastnight, but they had been playing well with the exception of the Dallas game. Hell they had 7 points against the Kings on Thursday night!!! I think Darren Helm is injured in GR, so I don't think he will even be called up now. Lets face it Drapes, and Malts just don't have it anymore, sure we need a change there, but like so many others have said, there is simply no cap room to do anything. If we bring guys like Helm and Abs from GR, we run the risk of losing them on Waivers, because they can only play a max of 10 games. Once the rosters expand, I think we will see some of the younger guys called up for some extra "grit" but that won't be until the playoffs!! Also, I thought Chris Osgood was HORRIBLE lastnight!! He was bad in the Dallas game as well. He is always always always out of position!! I not going to blame him on the breakaways, but the first 3 goals I am!! The first one was the worst, there was 2 feet between him and the goal post, there is no excuse for that crap!! If he is injured then we need to put his sorry ass on IR, if not then he needs to be a back up only, until he can turn the corner!! I like Ozzie, don't get me wrong, but 14 goals against in 3 games isn't cutting it. I will back Ozzie on this, he faced 49 shots against Dallas, 41 lastnight, I think 28 against the Ducks, and 23 against the Stars when we won 6-1. He makes great saves now and then, but with the exception on the Corey Perry save late against Anaheim, he has NOT helped this team at all in the net!!! Maybe I'm jumping on him too much!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Yippee, this discussion again. How many times do we have to go through this? Can enforcers help? Yes. Are they of 100% upmost importance all or most of the time? No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Yes, Our 4th line SUCKED lastnight, but they had been playing well with the exception of the Dallas game. Oh I get it...its a joke right...right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Downey has demonstrated repeatedly that he can't really play hockey. And Maltby and Kopecky have? Downeys scored a few goals for GR this season. Besides, there are other enforcers besides Downey (allbeit not as superior ones) So yeah, Mac was in the lineup. He had 19 PIM in 17 games, meaning he had a maximum of three fights with a couple of minors thrown in. I'm pretty sure that Mac wasn't playing in the SCF, so that means he had three fights through three playoff series. That doesn't make for a very good enforcer. Hmm...Mac did play in the SCF. Do you not remember him being challenged by Laraque? Obviously not as you seem to think the playoffs are filled with fights. Any guy that managed even two fights at any Stanley Cup stage has done well, let alone an enforcer. And Mac only had the one playoff fight. An enforcers job isnt just to randomly fight anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Hmm...Mac did play in the SCF. Do you not remember him being challenged by Laraque? Obviously not as you seem to think the playoffs are filled with fights. Any guy that managed even two fights at any Stanley Cup stage has done well, let alone an enforcer. And Mac only had the one playoff fight. An enforcers job isnt just to randomly fight anyway. I sit corrected, but I think my point stands regardless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Downey has demonstrated repeatedly that he can't really play hockey. And Kopecky has demonstrated that he's about as useful as an empty beanbag. Why should he play instead of Downey? Downey can at least fight, which is 1 more thing than Kopecky can do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner 6 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 I'd like to see Helm, Downey Draper on the 4th line. I don't think we absolutely need an enforcer but it's nice to have one around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 San Jose is bigger than we are. Not much we can do about that. They average size on their second line is something like 6'2 and over 200 lbs. And to be honest, as much as I'd like to see our team hit like they did, I didn't think the physicality stopped the Wings from being physical in any regard. Bring up Helm, who likes to hit, Ericsson who is a monster, and send a mid pick to the Sens for Neil and our grit should be adequate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) In life, people act tougher when they know they have backup in a fight. Same way in hockey. There's a reason why every other team in the league dresses an enforcer, and it isn't to amuse the fans. Exactly. Having someone on a line who can actually deliver punishment can embolden even lesser forwards to focus more on attacking. See Corey Perry. It makes a difference, how much is what's debatable. esteef Edited January 18, 2009 by esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted January 18, 2009 Did the Wings need an enforcer/ bigger lineup to clean San Jose's clocks 6-0 two weeks ago? I still think this team can skate rings around the Sharks, but they were pissed off after losing to Calgary at home two nights before. I'd also like to see more hitting/production out of the fourth line but unless Meech goes on LTIR, I don't think it's going to be able to come from Grand Rapids. In the same vein of getting sizey, useful players who can also toss the mitts, I'd also like to see the Wings trade for a #6/7 defenceman who plays positionally smart and can clear out the front of the net when called on. If the Oilers weren't obsessed with making everybody on their team play like fourth-line pluggers, I'd suggest we try to get Strudwick but he's like a god in Edmonton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
