Convinced yet?

[puckbags 863]

Edited January 20, 2009 by puckbags

[Ratbastrd 90]

Having a tough guy in the lineup can only rub off on the other players to play more physical. Last year the Wings dressed either Downey or McCarty throughout the entire season, and it wasn't a coincidence that they played tougher hockey than they have in a long time as a team.

Whether we would or wouldn't have beaten San Jose the other night isn't the point. The point is that the Sharks are a big, physical team, and the Wings need to play tougher, grittier hockey to beat them in a long series. Having an enforcer can only help that.

So an enforcer is the only way to get your team to play more physical? There is no other solution?

What are the tradeoffs? At what cost?

I got news for you (as a big Sharks fan) the Sharks love physical teams. The teams that give the Sharks trouble are disciplined, precision, puck control teams (ie Wings). You mess with the recipe, I am fairly confident you will screw it up.

[Coolio Mendez 7]

Miss the good ole days, the enforcers of today, are the least skilled of enforcers in NHL history.

The average points for the PIM leaders has been steadily decreasing since the mid 80s and for the last few years has been at it's lowest.

Even when you look at the 70s and 80s...Dave Schultz had 30point seasons. Tiger Williams had 30 goals seasons. Probert had seasons over 60 points. Terry O'Reilly with 606 points in 891 games, and a 90 point season. Clark Gillies and Bob Nystrom the list goes on!

Then I look at Brian McGrattan............10 points in 143 games. Derek Boogaard...............7 points in 147 games. Jody Shelley.........29 points in 350+ games. Then I look at the Princeton educated enforcer in Anahaim....11 pts in 158 games and 345 PIM. (In 110 games at Princeton he had 118 PIM and 52 pts).

Today's enforcer benefit from the 18 skaters/game rule, it allows people to keep talent challenged players like Steve Moore on the roster. Colorado kept Moore, other teams use enforcers.

I'm not necessarily asking for a 1 dimensional enforcer, but I'm asking for a guy who loves to throw his body around and when the time comes maybe just maybe get his hands dirty with a scrap from time to time.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Coolio Mendez

[esteef 2,679]

Having a tough guy in the lineup can only rub off on the other players to play more physical. Last year the Wings dressed either Downey or McCarty throughout the entire season, and it wasn't a coincidence that they played tougher hockey than they have in a long time as a team.

Whether we would or wouldn't have beaten San Jose the other night isn't the point. The point is that the Sharks are a big, physical team, and the Wings need to play tougher, grittier hockey to beat them in a long series. Having an enforcer can only help that.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

So an enforcer is the only way to get your team to play more physical? There is no other solution?

What are the tradeoffs? At what cost?

I got news for you (as a big Sharks fan) the Sharks love physical teams. The teams that give the Sharks trouble are disciplined, precision, puck control teams (ie Wings). You mess with the recipe, I am fairly confident you will screw it up.

It's not the only way, but it's a damn good way, especially when the rest of the team is not known for its physicality.

And there are no tradeoffs. Well, unless you have a 4th line full of hall of famers, which we currently don't have.

[betterREDthandead 58]

That's what I want to see more of on the Red Wings roster; guys whom are solid players, & don't mind dropping the mitts when needed...As much as I'd like a "heavyweight" on the roster - doubt if he'd see much ice time, nor would he contribute as much as a guy like Dallas Drake/Randy McKay/Chris Neil.

Which I'm not against; I just don't think it's as critical as others do. We got a damn good team as it is.

[thedatsyukian 7]

In all honestly, draper/maltby are probably not going anywhere including out of the lineup. The two have far too much history with the wings as well tons of playoff experience which means we're stuck barring injuries.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Ehh, I give up...

All this 'waiver worry' over guys that aren't producing..

... how are you doing Kyle Quincy in LA? Pretty great? Good to hear it! Glad we got those draft picks for him =)

What are you talking about we didn't get any draft picks for Quincy, we didn't get anything but a little cap relief and a roster spot.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

What are you talking about we didn't get any draft picks for Quincy, we didn't get anything but a little cap relief and a roster spot.

LOL... It's called sarcasm smarty =)

Also, for those of you that keep saying Downey doesn't 'enforce' or is not good at it, obviously doesn't remember LAST YEAR-

[Opie 308]

LOL... It's called sarcasm smarty =)

Also, for those of you that keep saying Downey doesn't 'enforce' or is not good at it, obviously doesn't remember LAST YEAR-

Downey does not enforce he seeks retribution!

[Konnan511 1,736]

Zata and Datsyuk and Hossa don't ever put themselves in positions to get hurt. Lids got hurt for the first time last year after an elbow to the head, whether we had an enforcer or not that elbow was going to happen and look, it happened even with Downey in the line-up. Enforcers are uselss for this team because Kope does a great job of letting the other teams take their anger out on him. They get mad, so they hit him since they can't hit our skill guys.

People say we lost the Sharks game because they out physicalled us, which is a crock of crap, lazy defense blew that game for us, it's the same team that beat the Sharks 6-0, so knock that argument off that we won't win the cup since we will be getting ran all game and scaring our players off their games.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Where did all my hockey RED WINGS friends from the 80s go... Jeesh, they sure aren't on this board. I swear, we've got the softest board in all of hockey. Think I'm kidding? Read some other boards or what people say about us....

Well, Franzen's out tonight, it'll continue with injuries to forwards. Watch Carcillo tonight taking wacks and runs at our players. Mark my words.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

...Smart youngsters are serious about being more complete hockey players.

“I look at Chris Pronger and the way he moves for a big man,” DeLory said. “He plays with an edge and is not necessarily dropping the gloves all the time. I’m working on getting quicker and more agile. With the clutching and grabbing gone, you need to be able to catch up to those forwards when they get the puck.”

Having said that, DeLory doesn’t want to forsake the fists that have opened doors for him. With his size, he probably still would have ended up in the OHL, but the mettle he displayed with the York Simcoe Express made him Oshawa’s first round pick in 2004.

“I did have a couple fights in my draft year, trying to get noticed,” he said. “It’s gotten me where I am today. It worked for me.”

And fighting will continue to help kids land contracts, because it has been ingrained in hockey and teams often covet the skill. Even though the NHL doesn’t promote this part of the game, the league knows it wouldn’t be able to banish it without a backlash.

Repulsive? Venomous? Reality.http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/17491-The-Straight-Edge-Enforcers-are-alive-and-well.html

Sorry ladies, it's still part of the game will be .

[betterREDthandead 58]

Where did all my hockey RED WINGS friends from the 80s go... Jeesh, they sure aren't on this board. I swear, we've got the softest board in all of hockey. Think I'm kidding? Read some other boards or what people say about us....

Amazingly enough, there are differences of opinion. And I could give two s***s what other boards say about us. They can't say this:

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Where did all my hockey RED WINGS friends from the 80s go... Jeesh, they sure aren't on this board. I swear, we've got the softest board in all of hockey. Think I'm kidding? Read some other boards or what people say about us....

Well, Franzen's out tonight, it'll continue with injuries to forwards. Watch Carcillo tonight taking wacks and runs at our players. Mark my words.

Do you think the Anaheim Ducks board will beat us up??

This board is too soft. Matt keeps letting all these damn non-gritty euros join...

[LeftWinger 5,136]

...tough call. Draper and Maltby have been over the years a great penalty kill duo. Drapes is still pretty valuablr t this team, but the prospect of a Abdelkader-Helm-Downey line would ROCK!

...There is no reason why Downey is not up here (unless it's Cap space.) It is time to let go of the past and have Maltby and Draper say goodbye, but, until their contracts are up, they won't be going anywhere. And even then, they'll probably get one of those "loyalty" contracts that Holland loves to hand out...

[Frozen-Man 144]

Where did all my hockey RED WINGS friends from the 80s go... Jeesh, they sure aren't on this board. I swear, we've got the softest board in all of hockey. Think I'm kidding? Read some other boards or what people say about us....

That is pretty pathetic if other boards have nothing better to discuss than whether members of other boards are soft. That's just plain silly and I doubt it is really much of a discussion on other boards.

As for your Red Wings friends from the 80's would that be back when we weren't annually contending for the Cup? Most fans here don't dislike fights or enforcers we just understand the reality of the situation that we are in and that we are not going to get a great enforcer right now and that those smart guys whose job it is to actually make these decisions don't want to lose pieces to bring up the guys we do have.

Well, Franzen's out tonight, it'll continue with injuries to forwards. Watch Carcillo tonight taking wacks and runs at our players. Mark my words.

That is ridiculous! Franzen even said the injury wasn't from a hit but rather he just strained a muscle. Guys get injured no matter what team they play on, amazingly the Sharks and the Ducks both have players that are injured even though they are "tough" teams. Finally, I never hear a peep out of you when the Wings beat the Sharks 6-0 or any of the other great games that we have had this year, you only seem to come out of the woodwork after a loss and then only to tell us that you are a better fan than everyone else and have been watching the game longer than everyone else, and all the true Red Wings fans like you are gone. The team is a really good one and unlike the teams in the 80's will contend for a Cup again this year.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Zata and Datsyuk and Hossa don't ever put themselves in positions to get hurt. Lids got hurt for the first time last year after an elbow to the head, whether we had an enforcer or not that elbow was going to happen and look, it happened even with Downey in the line-up. Enforcers are uselss for this team because Kope does a great job of letting the other teams take their anger out on him. They get mad, so they hit him since they can't hit our skill guys.

People say we lost the Sharks game because they out physicalled us, which is a crock of crap, lazy defense blew that game for us, it's the same team that beat the Sharks 6-0, so knock that argument off that we won't win the cup since we will be getting ran all game and scaring our players off their games.

The Sharks are a hungrier and bigger team than us. That is a bad sign for a 7 game series. As I've already posted, having an enforcer can only rub off on the rest of the team being more physical. Why do you think the WIngs were all of a sudden more physical in the playoffs last year than in year's past? Why do you think other teams dress enforcers?

It's not a coinicidence that we won the Cup with Downey and McCarty playing on this team all year. If you want to s*** all over that and say that it had nothing to do with the Cup win, then you're in denial and you know nothing about hockey.

This team needs an enforcer just like any other team does.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

The team is a really good one and unlike the teams in the 80's will contend for a Cup again this year.

Unfortunately the Joe is only 70% full on most nights. Go to a game in 1988 with Steve Yzerman in his prime and Bob Probert as his enforcer with Gerard Gallant on that line, you wouldn't see a seat empty... That place was amazingly loud and pumping. I'm just saying, read the facts. I was there and I go to games now to support the Wings too, there's a visible and remarkable difference in energy. Anyone that thinks differently hasn't been to a game 20 years ago.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

The Sharks are a hungrier and bigger team than us. That is a bad sign for a 7 game series. As I've already posted, having an enforcer can only rub off on the rest of the team being more physical. Why do you think the WIngs were all of a sudden more physical in the playoffs last year than in year's past? Why do you think other teams dress enforcers?

It's not a coinicidence that we won the Cup with Downey and McCarty playing on this team all year. If you want to s*** all over that and say that it had nothing to do with the Cup win, then you're in denial and you know nothing about hockey.

This team needs an enforcer just like any other team does.

Correct.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Sorry ladies, it's still part of the game will be .

Nobody here is trying to get rid of fighting in the NHL. Most of us really enjoy a great fight in a game. You act like because we don't dump all over our team, like you do, for not having an enforcer or being tough enough that we somehow want fights banned which is just ludicrous. I have not seen one post saying to take fighting out of the game, we just don't run around like chicken little after every loss hyperventilating and decrying the fact that the Wings are too soft/have no enforcer and therefore we suck, every player we have will get run at and injured, and other boards are making fun of us.

By all means leave fighting in the game, I would be pissed if they took it out, but don't act as if just because everyone else doesn't dump on the Wings after every loss they want fighting taken out of the game.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Unfortunately the Joe is only 70% full on most nights. Go to a game in 1988 with Steve Yzerman in his prime and Bob Probert as his enforcer with Gerard Gallant on that line, you wouldn't see a seat empty... That place was amazingly loud and pumping. I'm just saying, read the facts. I was there and I go to games now to support the Wings too, there's a visible and remarkable difference in energy. Anyone that thinks differently hasn't been to a game 20 years ago.

Again how many Cups did we win in the 80's (just reading the facts). See you argue that the 80's were so much better as a Wings fan and that we are not near as tough as we used to be - however, we win cups (and contend when we don't win) now and didn't before.

edit: clarify

Edited January 20, 2009 by Frozen-Man

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Again how many Cups did we win in the 80's (just reading the facts).

Here's facts.

http://www.behindthejersey.com/2008/01/06/...ttendance-woes/

[under_par_00 45]

LOL... It's called sarcasm smarty =)

Also, for those of you that keep saying Downey doesn't 'enforce' or is not good at it, obviously doesn't remember LAST YEAR-

Look at that Datsyuk-Zetterberg connection x2!!

and Downey fighting, just some of the things we are missing this year

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Again how many Cups did we win in the 80's (just reading the facts).

To take this a step further, how many cups have they won without these type players (Downey's, Drake's and McCarty's of the world) as part of the line up?...... 0 Again, just reading the facts...