Heaton 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Signing Zetterberg does not mean Hudler and Franzen are lost... where do you get that? Basically he's saying Franzen/Hudler > Z or Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Nogood is crazy, but y'all keep arguing with him... Ya know? And alls I knows is that I'd be happy if we traded Flip for draft picks. I haven't liked the deal from day 1. But I won't be so presumptuous to suggest that my opinion really carries any weight. Time will tell. Once again, I'll trust the guys that get paid to sort this crap out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 Nogood is crazy, but y'all keep arguing with him... Ya know? I just keep dropping the ban hammer on him. He's got to be approaching his 30th username by now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Different circumstances completely. Z shouldn't be compared to Pavel in terms of a contract. Thats very convenient for Z. Unfortunately, if Dats continues to carry the load of this teams offense while still being considered for the Selki, Z's 7+ is going to look awfully bloated, playoff performer/alleged future captain or not, compared to D's 6.7... dontcha think? Pavel Datsyuk is a stand out player amongst the league. If I were Holland, I wouldn't even think of offering Z more than D at this point. Thank God I'm not Holland... right? Edited January 23, 2009 by Broken 16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 Thats very convenient for Z. Unfortunately, if Dats continues to carry the load of this teams offense while still being considered for the Selki, Z's 7+ is going to look awfully bloated, playoff performer/alleged future captain or not, compared to D's 6.7... dontcha think? Pavel Datsyuk is a stand out player amongst the league. If I were Holland, I wouldn't even think of offering Z more than D at this point. Thank God I'm not Holland... right? It is kind of lucky on the timing for Z, but he earned it. Z has been underpaid for years now. I think a rumored contract of seven million per season or so is more than fair. It's just the way things work out sometimes. At the time, it appeared Datsyuk's contract was relatively steep. Pavel has improved immensely since that deal. Clearly Pavel is worth every penny and then some, but you can't justify Z making the same amount as Pavel when the circumstances and timing is different. I don't want to make this about Pavel versus Z. Both are such remarkably special players and even better guys off the ice. I just want Z to stay with the Red Wings and I am confident Kenny Holland will make that happen. We are incredibly blessed to have both of them in the Red Wings organization. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 It is kind of lucky on the timing for Z, but he earned it. Z has been underpaid for years now. I think a rumored contract of seven million per season or so is more than fair. It's just the way things work out sometimes. At the time, it appeared Datsyuk's contract was relatively steep. Pavel has improved immensely since that deal. Clearly Pavel is worth every penny and then some, but you can't justify Z making the same amount as Pavel when the circumstances and timing is different. I don't want to make this about Pavel versus Z. Both are such remarkably special players and even better guys off the ice. I just want Z to stay with the Red Wings and I am confident Kenny Holland will make that happen. We are incredibly blessed to have both of them in the Red Wings organization. I'm not saying that its Z vs D, but I would be suprised if Holland wasn't using Pavels salary as one of his leverage tools to get Z to agree to as low a contract as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireCaptain 563 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 *sniff* registered on the forum a few days *sniff* takes an argumentative stance *sniff* seems to hate the wings and/or their success Smells like a troll to me, but I could be mistaken. Whats so funny about it? Hossa has made it clear he wants to sign ASAP. Zetterberg is dragging his feet for a Lecavalier style contract, which he won't get unless he goes UFA. Are you guys worrying because the anointed "Messiah" isn't the golden boy you thought he was? Z won't be taking Datsyuk or Lidstrom money. Franzen will get Malone money. Hossa already turned down $90 million to play on this team and he wanted to get traded here last season. Its obvious which player wants to be on this team the most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Statts 4 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 *sniff* registered on the forum a few days *sniff* takes an argumentative stance *sniff* seems to hate the wings and/or their success Smells like a troll to me, but I could be mistaken. Either you have a cold, or have a good nose for bulls***. His user name is enough reason to raise the red flag. Why people waste their time to "debate" with gee la ****** is beyond me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Good 0 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 *sniff* registered on the forum a few days *sniff* takes an argumentative stance *sniff* seems to hate the wings and/or their success Smells like a troll to me, but I could be mistaken. Thats the major problem with most of you, any criticism and you label that person a troll. I follow the team more closely than most, I go to games and have every game DVRed. And I certainly get my information from a broader spectrum, outside of Ken Daniels, which is more than I can say for most. Calling me a troll deflects from my arguement because in fact you can't argue against it. The cap is decreasing for next season, probably by $2 million. Zetterberg is due, at least $4 million. Hudler will at the very least get another million Franzen will get another 3 million Hossa will be gone purely for financial reasons -$7.5 Conklin will be resigned and Howard will be let go, so that evens out. So right off the bat, thats $2.5 million dollars that the team needs to makeup for. Now that doesn't include Samuelsson. So than the only options are: Trade Flip Trade Lilja And if that happens, Ericcson or Helm will be called up and half of that salary gained, will be spent again. So in reality, you would have to move both Flip and Lilja to fit under the cap. So in order to keep any depth on team WITH Zetterberg, you have to move a second line center and our best defensive defenseman. The team would look like this: Homer-Datsyuk-Franzen Leino-Zetterberg-Hudler Meech-Helm-Cleary ?-Draper-Maltby Lidstrom-Rafalski Stuart-Kronwall Lebda - Ericsson Conklin Osgood Thats a team that is right against the cap and has no less than three AHLers and up to 5. All of that depth lost to keep Zetterberg. In reality, with cutting Z lose you can have this roster: Homer-Datsyuk-Franzen Leino-Flip-Hudler Sammy-Helm-Cleary Kopecky-Draper-Maltby Lidstrom-Rafalski Kronwall-Staurt Lilja-Lebda/Meech Conklin Osgood Much more depth and the team wouldn't be right against the cap. We're not "Losing" Hossa or Zetterberg. Hossa will not be coming back, its simple, its literally impossible. Saying that we're "Losing" Z implies that we get nothing in return. What we get in return is the potential to maintain a contending lineup. The potential to not rely on every player on the roster taking sizeable discounts in return for NTC/NMCs. The only way keeping Z works is if he signs a short deal, for around Datsyuk money with the understanding that when Lidstrom retires he will see an increase. If that doesn't happen, than keeping Z does more harm than good. The only way to free up enough capspace is by trading away Lilja, Flip, Stuart or Kronwall. And the argument isn't Hudler, Sammy, Franzen > Hossa and Z. Its team depth vs keeping one player, whether thats Z or Hossa. The cap is going to decrease next season and moreso the season after that. Having so much money tied up into five players means that we're going to dwindle this team down to nothing trying to keep it under the cap. We have two franchise players (Datsyuk and Lidstrom). Lidstrom could play for years more and Datsyuk is just entering his prime. Do we really need to gut the team to keep another? Stop treating this as if its the pre-cap NHL. If the 2002 lineup was faced with the same cap problems we would be saying goodbye to both Shanahan and Fedorov in order to keep Yzerman, Lidstrom and some team depth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diehardredwing19 11 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 in the article on the main page of this site, it also says that henrik zetterberg is willing to take a "hometown discount" to remain with the club to keep the roster intact as much as possible pretty much... so that to me its good news, but im not kenny so i dont know wats going on but i really want him locked up, we cant forget guys what he can do, sure hes having a mediocre year so far but i only care about what he does in the playoffs, and he has been moved to the second line and isnt on the first pp unit, also hes not with datsyuk, and hes got the negotiations going on, so there is kind of a excuse to his play thus far i think once he signs the contract n i really hope he does soon, you all might see the zetta of last year very fast, he wont have that distraction anymore and he'll be able to just play hockey, come on guys he is the MVP of last years playoffs the mans phenomanol hes a beast defensively n ofensively Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingsallwin 0 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 Well, let me see. If Zetterberg gets more than Datsyuk, I don't think it will be really concerned; Let's see Zetterberg gets 7.00 million. I don't mind how bad or good Zetterberg is right now compared to the last season. We know Zetterberg is not playing good, still 43 points so when he starts to spurt out, he will be really good. I don't think the reason why Zetterberg is not as powerful as last season is not all on Zetterberg's fault. Last season, he played with Pavel and produced a lot of point but not this season and we are still testing some new line changes so let's wait for how he will do until the end of the season. But what makes me so afraid is his injury prone that usually misses 8 to 9 games per season. And if we give him like 10 years contract, I am not in favor of it. By the mathtmetics, at the end of this contract, Zetterberg will be 38 years old. Hockey players prime is between 27 to 35 usually for offenses, well it might depend on which player he is but usually does. So I hope we will resign with Hank in 6.5 million for 5 or 6 years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mickeyisms Rule! 0 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 Zetterberg, Holland Close to a Deal per MLive $7.1 Million per year for 10 years per Ansar Khan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) The cap is decreasing for next season, probably by $2 million. Zetterberg is due, at least $4 million. Hudler will at the very least get another million Franzen will get another 3 million Hossa will be gone purely for financial reasons -$7.5 Conklin will be resigned and Howard will be let go, so that evens out. So right off the bat, thats $2.5 million dollars that the team needs to makeup for. Now that doesn't include Samuelsson. So than the only options are: Trade Flip Trade Lilja And if that happens, Ericcson or Helm will be called up and half of that salary gained, will be spent again. So in reality, you would have to move both Flip and Lilja to fit under the cap. So in order to keep any depth on team WITH Zetterberg, you have to move a second line center and our best defensive defenseman. The team would look like this: Homer-Datsyuk-Franzen Leino-Zetterberg-Hudler Meech-Helm-Cleary ?-Draper-Maltby Lidstrom-Rafalski Stuart-Kronwall Lebda - Ericsson Conklin Osgood Thats a team that is right against the cap and has no less than three AHLers and up to 5. All of that depth lost to keep Zetterberg. In reality, with cutting Z lose you can have this roster: Homer-Datsyuk-Franzen Leino-Flip-Hudler Sammy-Helm-Cleary Kopecky-Draper-Maltby Lidstrom-Rafalski Kronwall-Staurt Lilja-Lebda/Meech Conklin Osgood Much more depth and the team wouldn't be right against the cap. The only way to free up enough capspace is by trading away Lilja, Flip, Stuart or Kronwall. And the argument isn't Hudler, Sammy, Franzen > Hossa and Z. Its team depth vs keeping one player, whether thats Z or Hossa. Wow, you're back already. The problem with your argument is this ... you keep saying we'd be "sacrificing team depth for one player", but what you're really talking about is keeping 2 players versus one, and the second player lost would obviously be replaced by someone. Not the drastic loss of depth you keep insisting it is. But whatever, enjoy your stay for as long as it lasts this time, there's not much point in arguing this any further. Edited January 23, 2009 by lets go pavel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 I haven't read all the pages in this thread but to answer the original thread question, I'm not surprised it's not done yet and nor am I nervous. It hasn't really been taking that "long" either as plenty of people go unsigned to when a hockey season done. It's negotiations and this is perfectly normal. In these kinda things you dot every lower case j and cross every f to make sure all the details are correct. It doesn't happen overnight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Good/Nogood/whomever -- The cap is not going down next season, revenues are up as much as 5%, and I think factoring in a 2% increase is conservative. It is the year after they are more worried about (when we happen to have Lidstrom's salary come off the books). I can easily drop Franzen from your lineup and afford Zetterberg, without going against the cap. Who would you prefer, Zetterberg or Franzen? $7.1 Million per year for 10 years per Ansar Khan. $7.1 for ten years scares the hell out of me, I'm not going to lie. I really hope it is for 7 years. Edited January 23, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 $7.1 for ten years scares the hell out of me, I'm not going to lie. I really hope it is for 7 years. 10 years is scary, have any of the LONG term deals worked out for the team yet. I can think of Dipietro and Vinny as two that suck the bag for the team, any that actually look good for that length? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsMyWings13 4 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 $7.1 for ten years scares the hell out of me, I'm not going to lie. I really hope it is for 7 years. I think 7 years would be just right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellarina 1 Report post Posted January 23, 2009 Rick Dipietro says "hello!". Hes holding out for UFA and Holland knows it. Franzen will do the same and Hossa will make himself the easiest available to sign. hahahaha I love when trolls come around. This troll at least admits that he doesn't know much and is worthless, he calls himself "nogood" very fitting. So, which team do you root for? Chicago? Don't worry, you'll be fine for a couple of years, then when certain players lose their RFA status its all down hill again. NEXT!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
