The goaltending deficit in Detroit

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Well sure he is perceived as being the best... but statistically speaking this season there are several players more benefical to their team (statistically speaking because that is what is being brought up with ozzie)

From my perception he (ozzie) made several HUGE saves that came off of defensive brain freezes against Phoenix... but statistically he is near the bottom on some stats.

You're right, statistically there are d-men who are better off than Lidstrom is right now. Lidstrom just holds a reverence amongst fans and players alike.

Ozzie DID make some huge saves.. like the two break-away shots he saved. But he also let in some incredibly weak goals. He's improving, but he needs to improve a lot more.

[OsGOD 3]

You're right, statistically there are d-men who are better off than Lidstrom is right now. Lidstrom just holds a reverence amongst fans and players alike.

Ozzie DID make some huge saves.. like the two break-away shots he saved. But he also let in some incredibly weak goals. He's improving, but he needs to improve a lot more.

luckily for us, brezy gave up some not so flattering goals

[SweWings 45]

Meh. The Detroit management have a tendency of pulling magic tricks out of their hats but I have a bad feeling. But I had that last year as well and that turned out ok. But grabbing a high quality goaltender will be very very very hard considering what's available and the price on the market.

[OsGOD 3]

I just don't see the purpose of getting a "high profile" goalie in "this" town??? i mean they will never live up to the hopes and dreams of the "grass is always greener mentality" of the fickle fans in this town... it would be a waste.

[puckloo39 5,686]

I just don't see the purpose of getting a "high profile" goalie in "this" town??? i mean they will never live up to the hopes and dreams of the "grass is always greener mentality" of the fickle fans in this town... it would be a waste.

Amen to that. Who'd want the job??

Besides half the goalies in the league, I mean.

[boomer 0]

I just don't see the purpose of getting a "high profile" goalie in "this" town??? i mean they will never live up to the hopes and dreams of the "grass is always greener mentality" of the fickle fans in this town... it would be a waste.

I don't know about that, when was the last time we really had a starter of real substance. I guess you could argue Hasek the first time around. I would probably say it was Mike Vernon; who by the way was never rewarded for his great grit that helped us get a Cup. No management prefered to give fat cat contracts to players like Federov instead , that we even had to bribe him to get him off his ass to perform come playoff time. No I'm not dreaming of greener pastures in Detroit. Vernon never got the contract he deserved; because management had candidate Osgood in the wings which was the cheaper alternative at the time ;while simutaneosly Detroit became a cash cow for aging stars looking for that last final cushion before retirement. No I have no illusions of getting a high calibre goalie here in a block buster trade. All I'm hoping is someone competent alonside Conklin who I respect for his tenacity-- just give me a Roloson who gets 30 shots or more on a regular basis . Ya he'd do well in Detroit where shot totals are relatvely low. Bottom line if you want this team to keep the Cup we need another goalie Osgood no longer cuts it; just like Hasek no longer did.

[OsGOD 3]

I don't know about that, when was the last time we really had a starter of real substance. I guess you could argue Hasek the first time around. I would probably say it was Mike Vernon; who by the way was never rewarded for his great grit that helped us get a Cup. No management prefered to give fat cat contracts to players like Federov instead , that we even had to bribe him to get him off his ass to perform come playoff time. No I'm not dreaming of greener pastures in Detroit. Vernon never got the contract he deserved; because management had candidate Osgood in the wings which was the cheaper alternative at the time ;while simutaneosly Detroit became a cash cow for aging stars looking for that last final cushion before retirement. No I have no illusions of getting a high calibre goalie here in a block buster trade. All I'm hoping is someone competent alonside Conklin who I respect for his tenacity-- just give me a Roloson who gets 30 shots or more on a regular basis . Ya he'd do well in Detroit where shot totals are relatvely low. Bottom line if you want this team to keep the Cup we need another goalie Osgood no longer cuts it; just like Hasek no longer did.

I think the first line really sums it up... we really haven't and yet have 4 cups in the last 11 years or so... we did that by offeering big contract to keep higher caliber players (fedorovs, the datsyuks, the zetterbergs and hopefully the Hossas) to stay around.

We built a quality team (and still dominate team) without spending the needless amounts of cash on one particular position... We have 4 more cups than many of the teams with these "quality" goaltenders. If the 2 d-men help out the one goalie and the 3 forwards pick apart the other teams 1 goalie... we are fine with who we have.

What this does now is it keeps our possible All-star riddled lineup of skaters on their toes and playing (or should be playing) the best hockey they possibly can.

[Probie 7]

Soo many Osgood Goalie panic threads!!!

Nobody has mentioned Telquist, hes onky 800,000 a year:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Mikael_Tellqvist/

yeah maybe hes a backup, but he could back up Conklin in the playoffs. I'm not sure the yotes would move him unless they were out of the playoff picture, but i could be wrong. What do poeple think?

I would love to drop flip for a draft pick, have lieno take his place, use his pic and maybe a another minor pick/prospect to get Backstrom. If we had him, and Babs gets the teams attention and they start working again towards a defensive puck controlling team they were last year, they have an awesome chance to repeat IMO...

It sucks to give away flip to basically get Backstrom(not traded directly for), but the thing is Lieno we got for free and could take flippers place in the lineup. So in a way by singing lieno, we get a free pick out of the deal(if you follow me)...

[Probie 7]

Maybe we can move draper, and osgood for some of these:

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Dwayne Roloson for real? I hope that wasn't serious. Roloson wouldn't fare any better than Ozzie or Conklin have with the way the Red Wings defense has been playing.

[mackel 681]

I can't imagine it would hurt Osgood like that. He's one of the most laid back goaltenders in the game. He doesn't get angry. He doesn't smack his stick on the goalposts when a puck goes in. He just moves on and pretends it never happened.

I'm sure if we got a new goalie, Osgood would understand. As for Conks - I can't say.

EDIT: My grammar was atrocious.

....and luckily for us he's very well practiced at pretending it never happend... he gets to practice this talent on average over 3 times a game. My god we're fortunate!!!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

There is no "answer" to the goaltending situation. But with that said, who could really do worse than Osgood right now? Any starting/semi-starting/splitting goaltender that has played NHL hockey this year, outside of Toskala, Gerber, and Legace would be at worst be on par with Osgood, and even thats hard to say.

I say the Wings think outside of the box. Teams like Boston and Philly might find it better to trade their back-ups for the extra cap space they could use to address other holes, or to make some room to bring back Briere, in Phillys case. Maybe Nashville would forgo the fear of dealing with a rival if they were to garner something interesting in return for Ellis, since Rinne has stepped up so much. Atlanta is still in rebuild, and likes the look of Pavelec a lot, while Lehtonen has been on the block before. They may seem like unlikely situations, but with Ken Holland, it seems like he pulls off a lot of deals that come out from left field.

[gcom007 1,465]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090206/BLOG...n+t+played+well

"While it drew a great deal of attention when Mike Babcock criticized Chris Osgood for allowing the two goals in the third period Wednesday, the two have talked and have moved on.

Ty Conklin will start tomorrow against Edmonton, but that’s part of the normal rotation. Babcock wouldn’t say who’s in net Sunday at Pittsburgh, but it’ll probably be Conklin if he plays really well against the Oilers, and if not, then Osgood.

Either way, Osgood is fine.

“It’s over with, let’s move on,” Osgood said Friday when I asked him about Wednesday’s comments from Babcock. “You guys dwell on stuff that doesn’t matter any more. What matters is the next 30 games and the playoffs, what’s going to happen tomorrow, what’s going to happen against Pittsburgh. I know it’s you guys’ job, but to me, that doesn’t matter. Mike and I talk all the time. You guys make like we fight all the time. I won with Mike as my coach, he won with me as his goalie. You’ve got to put it in perspective here. What matters is what happens these next 30 games and the playoffs.”

Babcock also was sanguine.

“When you’re a coach, everyone in your room isn’t going to be in love with you every day, that’s the facts,” he said. “But I’m not looking for that. I’m just looking for him to be the best he can be. Do I think Chris Osgood is a phenomenal person? Absolutely. Do I think he’s a real good goalie? Absolutely. Do I think he’s been as good as he’s capable of being this year? Absolutely not. Do I expect more and does he expect more? Yes. Does he understand that? Yes. Now, does that make it warm and fuzzy every day? No, but I try to tell you is that over time, I think most people understand that. He knows I care about him, and he knows he’s a good goalie, and he knows we need him.”

Osgood is 17-4-6 this season, but he's got a 3.29 goals-against average and .888 save percentage."

[gcom007 1,465]

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/02/ca...nt_shoulde.html

"

The Oakland Press's Pat Caputo believes that those who choose to merely point their fingers at Chris Osgood as the source of the Red Wings' shoddy defensive play don't take into account Detroit's team-wide defensive shortcomings:

'February 6, The Oakland Press: Red Wings coach Mike Babcock was critical of Chris Osgood following their win Wednesday over Phoenix, but their biggest issue isn't goaltending.

They just have too many lapses in their own zone, and are not nearly as proficient at breaking out as they used to be. There have been too many giveaways.

Also, the Red Wings' penalty-killing unit has been bad. It used to be their great strength. It's difficult to put a finger on the exact reasons why this is happening. Could be that Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby and Nicklas Lidstrom are slowing down. They are advancing in age. But I don't understand the breakdowns from players such as Niklas Kromwall and Brian Rafalski, who were so solid in those areas last season.'

I don't buy the age argument. I buy the inability to close the eight-lane freeway to the net or stop teams from completing lateral passes across the seam between penalty-killing forwards and defenders...

'Osgood has played better the last couple months after a woefully slow start. His statistics aren't good, but he has been getting bombarded with a lot more scoring chances than in the past. That's a cause of the Red Wings' defensive play overall as much as on Osgood - especially when the Red Wings are short-handed.'"

[YoungGuns1340 1]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090206/BLOG...n+t+played+well

"While it drew a great deal of attention when Mike Babcock criticized Chris Osgood for allowing the two goals in the third period Wednesday, the two have talked and have moved on.

Ty Conklin will start tomorrow against Edmonton, but that’s part of the normal rotation. Babcock wouldn’t say who’s in net Sunday at Pittsburgh, but it’ll probably be Conklin if he plays really well against the Oilers, and if not, then Osgood.

Either way, Osgood is fine.

“It’s over with, let’s move on,” Osgood said Friday when I asked him about Wednesday’s comments from Babcock. “You guys dwell on stuff that doesn’t matter any more. What matters is the next 30 games and the playoffs, what’s going to happen tomorrow, what’s going to happen against Pittsburgh. I know it’s you guys’ job, but to me, that doesn’t matter. Mike and I talk all the time. You guys make like we fight all the time. I won with Mike as my coach, he won with me as his goalie. You’ve got to put it in perspective here. What matters is what happens these next 30 games and the playoffs.”

Babcock also was sanguine.

“When you’re a coach, everyone in your room isn’t going to be in love with you every day, that’s the facts,” he said. “But I’m not looking for that. I’m just looking for him to be the best he can be. Do I think Chris Osgood is a phenomenal person? Absolutely. Do I think he’s a real good goalie? Absolutely. Do I think he’s been as good as he’s capable of being this year? Absolutely not. Do I expect more and does he expect more? Yes. Does he understand that? Yes. Now, does that make it warm and fuzzy every day? No, but I try to tell you is that over time, I think most people understand that. He knows I care about him, and he knows he’s a good goalie, and he knows we need him.”

Osgood is 17-4-6 this season, but he's got a 3.29 goals-against average and .888 save percentage."

Interesting segment. Thanks for posting. But honestly, I don't like Ozzie's attitude. He makes it sound like Phoenix was a rare poor performance, when in fact it was a run-of-the-mill effort this season. And frankly, all that "we won with so and so" talks reminds me of the 03/04/06 runs. Yeah, we won with Hasek, too. Same thing with Hull, Shanny, and Yzerman. It still doesn't mean some changes didn't need to be made.

Edited February 7, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[Wingsallwin 0]

There is no "answer" to the goaltending situation. But with that said, who could really do worse than Osgood right now? Any starting/semi-starting/splitting goaltender that has played NHL hockey this year, outside of Toskala, Gerber, and Legace would be at worst be on par with Osgood, and even thats hard to say.

I say the Wings think outside of the box. Teams like Boston and Philly might find it better to trade their back-ups for the extra cap space they could use to address other holes, or to make some room to bring back Briere, in Phillys case. Maybe Nashville would forgo the fear of dealing with a rival if they were to garner something interesting in return for Ellis, since Rinne has stepped up so much. Atlanta is still in rebuild, and likes the look of Pavelec a lot, while Lehtonen has been on the block before. They may seem like unlikely situations, but with Ken Holland, it seems like he pulls off a lot of deals that come out from left field.

First, Lehtonen is reaching the end of his contract with the Thrashers this season so it might be a good decision to take him in the Wings and he gets 3 million so ideal deal with him as the Wings will be between 2 and 2.5. Like you said, even some professional hockey journalists say the Wings will head to the golf course earlier than we expect if we don't solve the goalie problem.

I agree our defenses are not enough solid as the last season but we cannot blame only our defenses. At least, when Nick was out of his play in the beginning of the season, he said he is out and he has been improved since then although he is not back on his perfect game. What about Osgood? Not at all. We cannot blame any our defenses performaces except for Kronwall beause as I watch, Rafalski, Lilja, Stuart, and either Chellios or Lebda have not been terrific but they are improving and they have more better games than not better games.

Like the Canucks, is there defenses good? Not really even the Canucks commentators say their defenses are not solid but why do they not allow many goals? Goalies. If the goalie can come up big, that makes our defenses to play more comfortable.

If we see Osgood, he started around 28 games. If I remeber well, the games he played enough good were very few, almost only 3 or 4. I don't blame Osgood when he allows 3 goals. Like the Ducks game, he allowed 3 goals by out of the position but he was enough. He at least has to be like that.

As Babock's interview, he is probably losing the credit on Osgood. During the PK, every coach says goalies have to be best penalty killers but Osgood has never been. Yes, we are the 2nd best in the West, which is way better than the East, but who cares about the standing if we make the playoff between 1st and 4th. There is no clear evidence we wii have a success in the playoff with this motivation and terrible goalies.

I know many people here love Osgood but we have to know the truth. Osgood just has no motivation as before. Like I mean, the lists you show there like Toskala and Legace, if those goalies are COMPARABLE with Osgood, and that's the truth, then we have to think seriously.

Until only this month, if Osgood plays 5 or 6 games given to him this early of the month, we have to make some deal on goalies unless Conks gets super hot.

[gcom007 1,465]

Until only this month, if Osgood plays 5 or 6 games given to him this early of the month, we have to make some deal on goalies unless Conks gets super hot.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/02/ho..._osgoods_s.html

"Ken Holland won't trade Chris Osgood to upgrade goaltending

Posted by George James Malik February 05, 2009 18:41PM

Categories: Top Sports

Red Wings GM Ken Holland spoke to the Windsor Star's Dave Waddell regarding both Detroit coach Mike Babcock's criticism of Chris Osgood's play of late, 5-4 win over Phoenix included, and the status of his somewhat shaky goaltending tandem in light of the trade deadline's a-month-away status:

February 5, Windsor Star: "Obviously, his game isn't where it was last year, the statistics bear that out," Holland said Thursday. "We know we got to get him on top of his game. Since mid-December our defence has been better. Penalty-killing is a source of concern, so is Chris Osgood. He hasn't put 60 minutes together. I think there's been mental lapses. I can (attribute) that to the Stanley Cup hangover. We need Chris to get his game back to where it was last year, and now."

Osgood admits his focus hasn't been up to standards. He owns the worst numbers (3.29 GAA, .880 save percentage) of any starting goalie in the NHL.

...

The native of Peace River, Alta., has allowed three or more goals in seven straight games and in 20 of his 28 starts. He also continues to allow soft goals on a frequent basis. In comparison, backup Ty Conklin has allowed three or more goals in 13 of his 25 starts, has a 2.38 goals against average, a . 915 save percentage and five shutouts.

"Conklin's been fine, Chris Osgood is not even close to where he was last year, but history has shown he's been able to raise his game," Holland said. "We'd like him to get there now. I think it's all mental."

Holland says that he's simply not going to pursue a goaltender at the trade deadline:

"I don't see us being active (in trade market)," Holland said.

Despite his struggles, the one thing Osgood has continued to do is win games. He's won 17 of his starts and only has four losses in regulation time.

"I'm not going to let it get to me," said Osgood, who is 20 victories short of becoming the 10th goalie in NHL history to record 400 wins. "I'm going to keep working hard in practice and doing all the right things to get myself where I want to be in the next two months."

Start now, please."

[Ms_Hockey 0]

....and luckily for us he's very well practiced at pretending it never happend... he gets to practice this talent on average over 3 times a game. My god we're fortunate!!!

Okay...?

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

We all know I'm one of the biggest most loyal Osgood fans around and always will be. I'll be honest though and say that I am glad Babs ripped into him a little. I think that's exactly what he needs. Ozzie is a great goalie and we all know what he's capable of. I'm thinking HOPEFULLY from here on out he's got a little spark in him and will play HIS game.

[SweWings 45]

Nobody has mentioned Tellqvist, he's only $800,000 a year:

Another soft Swede? You're kidding right!?

[boomer 0]

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/02/ho..._osgoods_s.html

"Ken Holland won't trade Chris Osgood to upgrade goaltending

Posted by George James Malik February 05, 2009 18:41PM

Categories: Top Sports

Red Wings GM Ken Holland spoke to the Windsor Star's Dave Waddell regarding both Detroit coach Mike Babcock's criticism of Chris Osgood's play of late, 5-4 win over Phoenix included, and the status of his somewhat shaky goaltending tandem in light of the trade deadline's a-month-away status:

February 5, Windsor Star: "Obviously, his game isn't where it was last year, the statistics bear that out," Holland said Thursday. "We know we got to get him on top of his game. Since mid-December our defence has been better. Penalty-killing is a source of concern, so is Chris Osgood. He hasn't put 60 minutes together. I think there's been mental lapses. I can (attribute) that to the Stanley Cup hangover. We need Chris to get his game back to where it was last year, and now."

Osgood admits his focus hasn't been up to standards. He owns the worst numbers (3.29 GAA, .880 save percentage) of any starting goalie in the NHL.

...

The native of Peace River, Alta., has allowed three or more goals in seven straight games and in 20 of his 28 starts. He also continues to allow soft goals on a frequent basis. In comparison, backup Ty Conklin has allowed three or more goals in 13 of his 25 starts, has a 2.38 goals against average, a . 915 save percentage and five shutouts.

"Conklin's been fine, Chris Osgood is not even close to where he was last year, but history has shown he's been able to raise his game," Holland said. "We'd like him to get there now. I think it's all mental."

Holland says that he's simply not going to pursue a goaltender at the trade deadline:

"I don't see us being active (in trade market)," Holland said.

Despite his struggles, the one thing Osgood has continued to do is win games. He's won 17 of his starts and only has four losses in regulation time.

"I'm not going to let it get to me," said Osgood, who is 20 victories short of becoming the 10th goalie in NHL history to record 400 wins. "I'm going to keep working hard in practice and doing all the right things to get myself where I want to be in the next two months."

Start now, please."

Talking about living in denial. The next 30 games will yield the same mediocre performance that he's been demonstrating all year. Too bad the deadline will be long gone by then.

[Pucks 66]

Talking about living in denial. The next 30 games will yield the same mediocre performance that he's been demonstrating all year. Too bad the deadline will be long gone by then.

Agreed, there's a definite mental component to his problems, but the lack of movement and positioning are the real problem here. The quotes from Ken Holland are just posturing. He doesn't want Gm's to rob him blind when he goes looking for a goaltender. Unless Chris can have a miracle turnaround in the next few weeks, Kenny will have to make a move, and he will.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Reality check...There wont be a goaltender change before the deadline

So you go into one of the 50 Ozzie sucks threads and give us a "reality check" that what almost everyone's saying is right that Ozzie will be our playoff goaltender? Thanks for that insight! Yes, I'm here too, but just to mock you and the thread starter and the rest of your ilk of repetition of the obvious and well known.

Edited February 7, 2009 by NomadFromKazoo

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm shocked that Drew Sharp seems so objective about this. This is like 2-3 articles in a row that I've read from him that seem to be demonstrating objectivity and a rational thought process. I'm shocked...

http://www.freep.com/article/20090207/COL0...t+in+blame+game

"Osgood easy target in blame game

BY DREW SHARP • FREE PRESS COLUMNIST • February 7, 2009

It's not all Chris Osgood's fault. It's just easier blaming him for the Red Wings' defensive lethargy because it can't be February in this city without some concern regarding their goaltending.

Advertisement

"It doesn't change," Osgood said Friday. "It's like checkup time. It's like a doctor's appointment every year in February. You think something might be wrong, and then you realize that everything is fine and the doctor tells you not to worry about the small stuff."

The "small stuff" is Osgood's worst statistical season of his NHL career. That he's allowing more soft goals than many can tolerate is nothing new. That has defined his time in Detroit as much as the two Stanley Cups in which he was the No. 1 man between the pipes.

"It's a good lesson," he said of his challenges this season. "Whoever thought that at 36, you're still learning stuff and figuring stuff out?"

I don't believe there has ever been a Detroit athlete during my lifetime who inspires such dramatic swings in opinion.

For everyone who adamantly stamps Osgood as an automatic Hall of Famer -- mentioned in the same breath as Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur and Dominik Hasek -- there's another who views his career path as divinely blessed for spending the bulk of it with a franchise that hides his deficiencies by surrounding him with supreme talent.

There's validity to both arguments.

But it's pointless worrying about whether or not Osgood can return to the form that made him the No. 1 goalie in the first round of last year's playoffs against Nashville.

There's nothing the Wings can do. Salary-cap restrictions render the possibility of landing a star at the trading deadline almost impossible.

And though Ty Conklin often has looked impenetrable, the Wings cannot voluntarily opt for a guy who has started one playoff game when failure to reach the Stanley Cup finals assumes disastrous proportions for this organization.

It's Ozzie or bust.

It's time for everyone to simply chill and look at the Wings' "problems" with a measure of perspective.

They're struggling relative to their expectations. They're not stopping opponents. They're surrendering more shots on goal than a year ago. It has affected Osgood, who currently ranks 42nd in goals-against average, and his save percentage (.880) is one of the worst in the NHL.

Those numbers jump out at you, but the Wings' defensive issues are a collective letdown. Their penalty kill ranks 27th in the league, just three spots from the bottom. The forwards aren't back-checking as furiously as a year ago. They aren't hounding the puck with their prior zeal. They aren't as physically resilient as a year ago.

The normally indestructible Tomas Holmstrom fought through a sports hernia last year, but now he needs surgery again and could miss as much as five weeks.

It's not just Osgood getting tested. Everybody needs to step it up to another level.

"I know how to win playoff games," Osgood said. "That's all that should matter."

He's right, but it's impossible matching last year's hunger. There was the motivation in proving ridiculous the Canadian-induced prejudice that a European-dominated team couldn't endure the physical and mental sacrifices necessary to win the Stanley Cup.

Mike Babcock called out Osgood's struggles recently, but he thinks the media has made a big deal out of nothing.

"That's over with," Osgood said. "You move on. You guys do all that stuff that doesn't matter anymore. What matters is the next 30 games and the playoffs. ... You've got to put it in perspective.

"Let's be honest. What's the track record of teams that went to the finals the last five years? A lot of those teams haven't made the playoffs (the next year). We should be pretty proud of what we've done up to this point."

He's right, but it doesn't change reality. Standards are extraordinarily high here -- maybe unrealistically high -- and no one can stop regular-season boredom from morphing into playoff paranoia."

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

So you go into one of the 50 Ozzie sucks threads and give us a "reality check" that what almost everyone's saying is right that Ozzie will be our playoff goaltender? Thanks for that insight! Yes, I'm here too, but just to mock you and the thread starter and the rest of your ilk of repetition of the obvious and well known.

Right On NFK!

Also: