Wings Would Like To Re-sign Kopecky

[redwing_sparty 0]

Helm is also going to make much more than Kopecky, and has a greater potential than playing on the fourth line. So if Holland is looking to somehow fit Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Sammy or some combination of the three or four of them, it would be wise to sign Kopecky to a tiny contract for a number of years to have a low cap hit so there's more room for Hudler, or Franzen, or whoever. It is very possible that after a year or so, Helm is playing like Cleary and can demand, or expect, at the very least around 3M. The kid has a lot of potential, I don't think anyone will deny that. Its safe to say, however, that with how Kopecky is playing right now, we could sign him for three or four years for a cap hit of about a million. This is quite possibly one of a number of ways Holland is going to lower our cap, so he can focus on higher priority guys.

Also: I'm just curious, and this is no way a knock on your logic, but how is Helm a proven better player than Kopecky?

how is he more proven? he played through the playoffs and looked good every game he played. as i recall he had 1 or no points in the playoffs, which is not a mindblowing omg this guy is amazing stat, but he rarely if ever screwed up. he was solid, fast, and gave our stars a breather without having to worry about kopecky's lazy skating and terrible hands to ruin all their hard work.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Yeah, I also liked the Franzen, Filppula, Hossa line the other night. Whenever Flip plays with Cleary, Cleary never passes and makes Flip look like he sucks.

Fil has done just fine "sucking" this season without Cleary bringing him down like you claim. Do you make this crap up? Cleary looked fine playing top line minutes with Z and Pav. He didn't seem to negatively affect their game at all.

As for Kopecky, re-signing him would be beyond pointless. He's the worst player on the team, hasn't improved even with more opportunities to play, and provides absolutely nothing to this Red Wings team. Helm or Abdelkader could easily fill Kopecky's role and do it quite better. I guess the Red Wings are content with the brilliant performance of the fourth line this season.

[Mors 201]

QFT. There is no argument for Kopecky. He doesn't play his "role" well, and he doesn't do anything else well either. Hes more useless than Mowers or Devereaux ever were.

Ha Mowers! I had forgotten about him. Kopecky is making all of our old buddies look good at this point

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

Yeah, I also liked the Franzen, Filppula, Hossa line the other night. Whenever Flip plays with Cleary, Cleary never passes and makes Flip look like he sucks.

So let me see if I understand what you are saying. Cleary is the reason Flip sucks when they play together? Who's fault is it when he doesn't play with Cleary? I love Flip, but he is way overpaid for how he has been playing. I am hoping that he turns it around, but I am not holding my breath.

[Nev 1,085]

Helm is also going to make much more than Kopecky, and has a greater potential than playing on the fourth line. So if Holland is looking to somehow fit Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Sammy or some combination of the three or four of them, it would be wise to sign Kopecky to a tiny contract for a number of years to have a low cap hit so there's more room for Hudler, or Franzen, or whoever. It is very possible that after a year or so, Helm is playing like Cleary and can demand, or expect, at the very least around 3M. The kid has a lot of potential, I don't think anyone will deny that. Its safe to say, however, that with how Kopecky is playing right now, we could sign him for three or four years for a cap hit of about a million. This is quite possibly one of a number of ways Holland is going to lower our cap, so he can focus on higher priority guys.

Also: I'm just curious, and this is no way a knock on your logic, but how is Helm a proven better player than Kopecky?

Seriously??? Thats overpaying Kopecky by about 650k per year. If we sign him to a new contract, he wants to be on NHL minimum (350k from memory). Absolute worst case scenario he carries on getting 500k. If he thinks he can make more than that in the NHL or anywhere in Europe, good luck!

As for your last comment - seriously??? Did you not watch Helm in the playoffs?

[Gutierrez 7]

I do not understand why Babcock and co like Kopecky so much. The guy is pretty useless and really doesn't throw his weight around like he should for someone his size. I never even realize he's on the ice for most games as the only time my attention is brought to him is when it's something negative like being penalized or knocked down on his ass. Helm or even Abdelkader would be an upgrade over Kopecky imo. The greatest contribution Kopecky has made to this team has been off ice in helping to land Hossa on this team.

[BlueMonk 102]

I balked at the Lilja extension and I was pleased to be proven wrong about that decision. But this seems absurd on the surface.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I bet Kenny Holland gets wasted before every Wings game. Wait, no that doesnt make any sense. But that's the only reason I could see as to why they'd want to re-sign this bum.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Seriously??? Thats overpaying Kopecky by about 650k per year. If we sign him to a new contract, he wants to be on NHL minimum (350k from memory). Absolute worst case scenario he carries on getting 500k. If he thinks he can make more than that in the NHL or anywhere in Europe, good luck!

As for your last comment - seriously??? Did you not watch Helm in the playoffs?

The 1M was an over exaggeration to play things safe, but "absolute worst case scenario" as you called it of getting .5M on the caphit only further supports my argument.

And as for my last comment; I'm not saying I disagree (in fact I said that Helm would be able to demand more money), but the fact that he hasn't scored a single point in eleven regular season games and is a minus player overall isn't really much of a proven argument. At this point I don't think one player can be "proven" better than the other. Its all a matter of opinion. Kopecky averages a point in seven games.

[VM1138 1,921]

Helm is also going to make much more than Kopecky, and has a greater potential than playing on the fourth line. So if Holland is looking to somehow fit Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Sammy or some combination of the three or four of them, it would be wise to sign Kopecky to a tiny contract for a number of years to have a low cap hit so there's more room for Hudler, or Franzen, or whoever. It is very possible that after a year or so, Helm is playing like Cleary and can demand, or expect, at the very least around 3M. The kid has a lot of potential, I don't think anyone will deny that. Its safe to say, however, that with how Kopecky is playing right now, we could sign him for three or four years for a cap hit of about a million. This is quite possibly one of a number of ways Holland is going to lower our cap, so he can focus on higher priority guys.

Also: I'm just curious, and this is no way a knock on your logic, but how is Helm a proven better player than Kopecky?

Well, for one, he does things.

[eva unit zero 271]

Seriously??? Thats overpaying Kopecky by about 650k per year. If we sign him to a new contract, he wants to be on NHL minimum (350k from memory). Absolute worst case scenario he carries on getting 500k. If he thinks he can make more than that in the NHL or anywhere in Europe, good luck!

As for your last comment - seriously??? Did you not watch Helm in the playoffs?

IIRC, league minimum salary is $475k this season, and moves up to $500k next season.

As far as Helm vs Kopecky...Helm is a good player, and could potentially have the better career. But Kopecky is the better player right now. And don't forget, Kopecky would have been in the lineup had he been healthy for the playoffs last year and he was playing much better than anything Helm has done in the NHL to this point. Kopecky is a well-rounded player who can play a solid physical game, a decent defensive game, is capable offensively, can play both ways on special teams, and is a capable skater. He also plays all three forward positions capably and is good on faceoffs. Helm is a good faceoff man, a very fast skater, good defensive player and can kill penalties. Kopecky is a better all-around player and better overall player. The advantages Helm brings is that he is a more consistent player defensively and a better skater, so he is a better asset to a penalty killing unit; however Kopecky has been performing well when used in that respect recently.

With regards to those who compared Kopecky to Draper/Maltby/McCarty at that age...I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Those three were being used in a different role than Kopecky is being used in.

[Echolalia 2,961]

IIRC, league minimum salary is $475k this season, and moves up to $500k next season.

As far as Helm vs Kopecky...Helm is a good player, and could potentially have the better career. But Kopecky is the better player right now. And don't forget, Kopecky would have been in the lineup had he been healthy for the playoffs last year and he was playing much better than anything Helm has done in the NHL to this point. Kopecky is a well-rounded player who can play a solid physical game, a decent defensive game, is capable offensively, can play both ways on special teams, and is a capable skater. He also plays all three forward positions capably and is good on faceoffs. Helm is a good faceoff man, a very fast skater, good defensive player and can kill penalties. Kopecky is a better all-around player and better overall player. The advantages Helm brings is that he is a more consistent player defensively and a better skater, so he is a better asset to a penalty killing unit; however Kopecky has been performing well when used in that respect recently.

With regards to those who compared Kopecky to Draper/Maltby/McCarty at that age...I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Those three were being used in a different role than Kopecky is being used in.

This here is a good post.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I balked at the Lilja extension and I was pleased to be proven wrong about that decision. But this seems absurd on the surface.

But Lilja provided something. He was always a good PKer at the least, and had shown bouts of strong hitting, shot blocking, and even fighting on occasion. Kopecky, on the other hand, isn't even good at staying on his feet. And I don't think I've ever been wowed by a Kopecky hit. And his reluctance to drop the gloves is pathetic.

The only argument people have is that Kopecky would be cheap. But how many 4th liners aren't cheap? I can think of about 20-30 names off the top of my head that make around 500-600k on the 4th line and actually fulfill the requirements by hitting and/or fighting. Kopecky does neither, which is disgusting, considering hes bigger than well over half the guys in this league.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

IIRC, league minimum salary is $475k this season, and moves up to $500k next season.

As far as Helm vs Kopecky...Helm is a good player, and could potentially have the better career. But Kopecky is the better player right now. And don't forget, Kopecky would have been in the lineup had he been healthy for the playoffs last year and he was playing much better than anything Helm has done in the NHL to this point. Kopecky is a well-rounded player who can play a solid physical game, a decent defensive game, is capable offensively, can play both ways on special teams, and is a capable skater. He also plays all three forward positions capably and is good on faceoffs. Helm is a good faceoff man, a very fast skater, good defensive player and can kill penalties. Kopecky is a better all-around player and better overall player. The advantages Helm brings is that he is a more consistent player defensively and a better skater, so he is a better asset to a penalty killing unit; however Kopecky has been performing well when used in that respect recently.

With regards to those who compared Kopecky to Draper/Maltby/McCarty at that age...I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Those three were being used in a different role than Kopecky is being used in.

Holy overrating!

Eva, thats the nuttiest thing you've ever posted. Kopecky is NOT a better player than Helm right now in any way shape or form. Kopecky has minimal assignments and can't even carry those out. In an NHL lineup, Helm is already being given more responsibility, and can fulfill what is asked of him swimmingly. There is NO contest as to who the better player is. Helm wins that show in a landslide.

[aflac9262 211]

EDIT: Wrong topic. My apologies folks

Edited February 7, 2009 by aflac9262

[BlueMonk 102]

The only argument people have is that Kopecky would be cheap. But how many 4th liners aren't cheap? I can think of about 20-30 names off the top of my head that make around 500-600k on the 4th line and actually fulfill the requirements by hitting and/or fighting. Kopecky does neither, which is disgusting, considering hes bigger than well over half the guys in this league.

This is exactly right. He's got no place on this team. He's a solid two way forward, but the Wings have a glut of those in the organization. If he brought some toughness or hitting, that would be one thing, but he doesn't. He's just a waste of a roster spot on this squad. There are plenty of teams that could use a guy like him. He should go play for one of them.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Holy overrating!

Eva, thats the nuttiest thing you've ever posted. Kopecky is NOT a better player than Helm right now in any way shape or form. Kopecky has minimal assignments and can't even carry those out. In an NHL lineup, Helm is already being given more responsibility, and can fulfill what is asked of him swimmingly. There is NO contest as to who the better player is. Helm wins that show in a landslide.

Helm seems to be having difficulty helping his team maintain a 6 goal lead. He's currently -2 in this game (the only player), which would put his 12 game total at -5. 0 regular season goals. 0 regular season assists. Despite playing on what many would call "the worst fourth line in the league", and playing as what many would call "the worst fourth liner in the league", Kopecky is only a -1 this year. That's better than both Draper and Maltby. He's +0 for his entire career. He is our leading forward in checks, and only behind Stuart out of our entire team. No, he doesn't fight, but that's not every fourth liner's responsibility. Especially when he could very well walk away with an injury, as he isn't even a fighter to begin with, like some seem to believe. I'd say he fills his role quite nicely, and it seems like Babcock and Holland agree. As Eva and I both said previously, Helm definitely has more potential, but as of right now, Kopecky is the better player. Going back to my original statement, therein lies the advantage of signing Kopecky. He won't make a lot of money throughout his career, so we can sign him for cheap as a reliable (yes, reliable) fourth liner who will only get better. Helm will certainly get better. Look at him out there, he's bursting with potential. But that means he's more likely to make a bunch in the future, which would provide the Wings with less space to sign someone like Huder, or Hossa, or Franzen.

[TheOwl 77]

Just adding Leino to the 4th line has improved it so much. Maltby and Draper look a lot better playing with someone with talent. Leino must stay! Screw Kopetsky!

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

hopefully another injury is in his future.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm surprised at all the Kopecky love. The man has no physical presence, no offensive talent, no defensive talent, and at his very best he is absolutely neutral on the ice. And what's worse is that he seems to make his linemates play worse. I guess that makes him a form of a cancer on the ice?

Helm and Leino FTW.

[WingNut 25 5]

After yet another Franzen injury, it is obvious we need to lock up Hossa first.

[LeftWinger 5,140]

hopefully another injury is in his future.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

hopefully another injury is in his future.

It is classless to hope for an injury to an opponent. I can't even think of a word to describe a person who hopes for one for the team that they claim to cheer for.

You are a classic D-bag.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Helm seems to be having difficulty helping his team maintain a 6 goal lead. He's currently -2 in this game (the only player), which would put his 12 game total at -5. 0 regular season goals. 0 regular season assists. Despite playing on what many would call "the worst fourth line in the league", and playing as what many would call "the worst fourth liner in the league", Kopecky is only a -1 this year. That's better than both Draper and Maltby. He's +0 for his entire career. He is our leading forward in checks, and only behind Stuart out of our entire team. No, he doesn't fight, but that's not every fourth liner's responsibility. Especially when he could very well walk away with an injury, as he isn't even a fighter to begin with, like some seem to believe. I'd say he fills his role quite nicely, and it seems like Babcock and Holland agree. As Eva and I both said previously, Helm definitely has more potential, but as of right now, Kopecky is the better player. Going back to my original statement, therein lies the advantage of signing Kopecky. He won't make a lot of money throughout his career, so we can sign him for cheap as a reliable (yes, reliable) fourth liner who will only get better. Helm will certainly get better. Look at him out there, he's bursting with potential. But that means he's more likely to make a bunch in the future, which would provide the Wings with less space to sign someone like Huder, or Hossa, or Franzen.

Kopecky is -1, yet hes NEVER on the ice in key situations. Thats why his +/- is better than Draper and Maltbys. Babs will double shift Cleary or Filppula with the 4th line if its late in a game. Yes, he is our leading forward in checks, but they're pathetic as hell, and he usually takes himself out of the play, because he falls down after a check more often than not.

The fact that you're using a guy's career +/- of 0 says everything about Kopecky.

And no, even as of now, Helm is the much better player. Helm may make mistakes, but thats because he works himself into the play. He skates, backchecks, plays the body, works the neutral zone well, and more. Kopecky, on the other hand, will let Draper or Maltby take over on the backcheck, on man to man coverage, or along the boards. Helm is better than Kopecky in every regard.

You don't get brownie points just because you don't do anything bad. Which is the argument you're making for Kopecky.

[LeftWinger 5,140]

...trade Filpulla, that opens up $12.4 million dollars for next years Cap. Sign Hossa to a long term deal with an average cap hit of $6Million. Give Franzen a long term that averages $2.5Million against the Cap. That leaves you $3.9 million for one year deals to re-sign Sammy at 875,000, re-sign Leino at the same $875,000, re-sign Kopecky at the same $500,000, then bring up Ericsson, Helm & Howard (or re-sign Conklin at the same price.) In the end all these salaries equal about $13MM, but Holland The Magician can get the numbers crunch to where it's closer to $12 million.

...you's have to say goodbye to Filppula for a 2nd rounder and say goodbye to Hudler to RFA, getting a 1st and 3rd in return when he signs somewhere for $3MM...

(of course McCarty & Chelios say goodbye.)