wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 Even with everyone healthy, these two belong. Forward lines should be Hank-Dats-Homer Franzen-Hudler-Hossa Samuelsson-Filppula-Leino Helm-Draper-Cleary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner 6 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I would rather see it this way: Hank-Dats-Homer Franzen-Cleary-Hossa Helm-Hudler-Leino Downey/Maltby-Draper-Samuelson But I agree that they both belong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 No Flip? He's starting to come on as of late. I think 10 points in his last 13 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner 6 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I haven't been all that impressed wiht flip since we got him to be honest. I think he would probably shine on another team although I couldn't say for sure. But I would rather have both Leino and Helm for probably what we're paying for Filpula. Although if Flip keeps improving I reserve the right to change my mind. LOL I just think Leino, Huds Helm would be a fun line to watch, not that it would ever happen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I don't understand the Flip hate. He's been underutilised this season with the embarrassment of riches we have up front (to plagiarize a media superlative). Next season, after we lose someone, you can be sure he'll see powerplay time and more scoring-line minutes. If he's not productive THEN, then perhaps management needs to look at unloading him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I don't understand the Flip hate. He's been underutilised this season with the embarrassment of riches we have up front (to plagiarize a media superlative). Next season, after we lose someone, you can be sure he'll see powerplay time and more scoring-line minutes. If he's not productive THEN, then perhaps management needs to look at unloading him. They really like him as both a player and a person. Very, very slim chance they get rid of him anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RWK23 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 Anyone think that it's a coincidence that as soon as Flip gets second line minutes with PP time, he averages a point a game? I don't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 They really like him as both a player and a person. Very, very slim chance they get rid of him anyways. I know he's not going anywhere- Holland is too smart to commit $3 million/year to somebody he didn't believe in, especially considering he already had Hossa signed for the year when he made that deal. I'm just frustrated by this board's blind hatred towards him because he doesn't put up big points while being used defensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zenway9 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I was really liking that Hossa-Flip-Leino line against Pitt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoDakWing 8 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 those two will get there shot. look at it this way though they are playin more min in GR and growing there. Playoff time though I think we could use them for sure. They are both hard skaters and in on everyplay from what i've seen and after seeing what helm did in the finals last year and how hard he's skated he's becoming one of my fav players Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I know he's not going anywhere- Holland is too smart to commit $3 million/year to somebody he didn't believe in, especially considering he already had Hossa signed for the year when he made that deal. I'm just frustrated by this board's blind hatred towards him because he doesn't put up big points while being used defensively. Same goes for Zetterberg, actually. If I'm not mistaken, he's still averaging at least two minutes less of ice time in comparison to last year. And he's mainly responsible for the Thorntons and Malkins and Iginlas of the league defensively while Pav's line gets to do all the scoring. Of course his points are going to drop a little. The Filppula-Hossa combo has worked well. Not as great as Pav and Z but it's unreasonable to expect that. I think it helps that Fil doesn't handle the puck as much. It allows Hossa to really take charge instead of being passive and waiting for Pav or Z to make a move. I think it also helps that Fil is a strong skater. It's just that for whatever reason he hasn't done that every game this year. But as long as he's flying out there, he'll be alright. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 Anyone think that it's a coincidence that as soon as Flip gets second line minutes with PP time, he averages a point a game? I don't. The coincidence is that hes playing with Hossa. Hossa has scored 3 or 4 goals of late that have been all his own doing - today against Pitt was a perfect example of that - with Flip getting a charity point on almost every one of those occasions. Flip has looked better, but in the same way having Datsyuk set up Franzen has made him look above his league. Both players are mediocre offensively, and have superstars keeping their heads above water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted February 8, 2009 I don't understand the Flip hate. He's been underutilised this season with the embarrassment of riches we have up front (to plagiarize a media superlative). Next season, after we lose someone, you can be sure he'll see powerplay time and more scoring-line minutes. If he's not productive THEN, then perhaps management needs to look at unloading him. Underutilized? He was averaging 17 minutes a game I think. His development has stalled. He hasn't improved at all since a season or so ago. I wouldn't call it "Flip hate", I'm pretty sure 99% of people here like him. It's just a case of: We have limited room, limited money, and limited time and he is not benefiting from being here. He is quality talent and we could probably get someone decent for him and then he could go flourish elsewhere, while freeing up space and money for us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Flip has a better all around game than any of the other forwards besides the big 3. Babcock realizes that. The only problem with flip is his reluctance to shoot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Underutilized? He was averaging 17 minutes a game I think. His development has stalled. He hasn't improved at all since a season or so ago. I wouldn't call it "Flip hate", I'm pretty sure 99% of people here like him. It's just a case of: We have limited room, limited money, and limited time and he is not benefiting from being here. He is quality talent and we could probably get someone decent for him and then he could go flourish elsewhere, while freeing up space and money for us. It's the way he's being used, the players he plays with and the role he is expected to fill (no pun intended) that is important as far as his development goes. He plays a fair number of minutes, but he doesn't get any PP time, he doesn't play with linemates like Zetterberg or Franzen (as Hudler usually does) and he frequently plays with Lebda and Lilja, being expected to fill a more defensive third-line centre role. He has done that admirably and until this team's offensive depth decreases (which it inevitably will) his offensive production is going to be lower than hoped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 I think it's very unlikely that flip is going anywhere. He is someone that can fill a multitude of roles such as centering a shutdown line or centering a secondary score line. He's defensively while responsibly with substantial offensive upside. The key point is that he fits our system and they emphasize that in how they structure the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xBrave_Heartx 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Val is fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitneydatsyukrox 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 The coincidence is that hes playing with Hossa. Hossa has scored 3 or 4 goals of late that have been all his own doing - today against Pitt was a perfect example of that - with Flip getting a charity point on almost every one of those occasions. QFT. I'm a Flip fan for sure, and he is looking better now than at the beginning of the season, but this is true. It's arguable, but Hossa creates a lot of his own goals out of nothing. Props to whoever carried the puck over the line or passed it to him 15 seconds prior, but with Hossa's strength and quick release, he could have Boyd Devereux on a line with him and do just fine for the most part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 I don't understand the Flip hate. He's been underutilised this season with the embarrassment of riches we have up front (to plagiarize a media superlative). Next season, after we lose someone, you can be sure he'll see powerplay time and more scoring-line minutes. If he's not productive THEN, then perhaps management needs to look at unloading him. QFT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 The thing with Filppula is that he's not amazing. That's not a knock. He's good defensively. He's decent offensively. He doesn't really hit much. Is that worth $3 mill? You can argue that he'd score more with more time. But when given that time, he's only a 40-50 point player, folks. He scored an amazing goal in the Finals. Thank him for that. However, salary cap constraints call for tough decisions. Do you really think it's worth losing a 40 goal scorer (Hossa) or a 30 goal scorer (Franzen--projected) for a guy who has great upside? Use that upside. You can't keep 'em all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlaWingsFan 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Helm and Leino are great additions, but the only one I really think needs to be replaced is Sammy. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Hossa, Flip, Cleary Leino, Hudler, Franzen Malts, Draper, Kopecky Each of the top 3 lines have a play making center, a scoring winger and a winger that will muck it up in the corners and get in front of the net. Of course the 4 line does what it always does...check and give energy when needed. Helm will get his time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krayzie_Bone 58 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Z,Dats,Homer Hudler,Franzen,Hossa Samuelson,Draper,Cleary Malby,Filpula, Helm That is my lines on nhl 09 not that it matters just felt like saying that. Great game. Edited February 9, 2009 by Krayzie_Bone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zetterbeard40 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 The thing with Filppula is that he's not amazing. That's not a knock. He's good defensively. He's decent offensively. He doesn't really hit much. Is that worth $3 mill? You can argue that he'd score more with more time. But when given that time, he's only a 40-50 point player, folks. He scored an amazing goal in the Finals. Thank him for that. However, salary cap constraints call for tough decisions. Do you really think it's worth losing a 40 goal scorer (Hossa) or a 30 goal scorer (Franzen--projected) for a guy who has great upside? Use that upside. You can't keep 'em all. I agree totally with everything you've said. In my opinion, Filppula is overrated. I find that alot of people give him credit where credit is not due, simply because he was talked so highly by the red wings. Well when it comes down to it, he's not producing as much as he's being paid for. He can't get into the middle of the ice, is EXTREMELY weak in the physical game (gets knocked off the puck almost every time), and frankly, he CAN NOT finish. Filps is a great skater and plays great defensively, but so does Kris Draper. Look at what we're paying Sammy. He's making half of what fillps is making and is playing a hell of alot better. Im not sayin that I think filpps should go and sammy should stay, but I just feel like 3-3.5 million/year could be used elsewhere and more effectively. Everything we've heard about fillps is how good he's supposed to be, and although he is still very young, I really havent seen many huge improvements in his game. With that said, I say we say goodbye to Fillpula. Not only will this open up some room to sign guys that we cannot lose, but it also allows us to maybe make a move at the deadline to shore up some issues we have, ie. defense, goalie, grit. I was listening to 97.1 the other day and a question really made me think. The question was, "What is the one thing that the Red Wings miss from last years team?" This question was really intriguing to me, because it wasnt a simple answer. When it comes down to it, we gained an all star in Hossa, and lost Drake and Hasek. Well my answer to this question is that we miss a guy like Drake. Im not sayin we need a fighter, but our so called "energy line", is energyless. Drake brought grit to that fourth line. Although Draper works hard, and Maltby claims to bring grit, he really doesnt. He's old and doesnt hit guys, more of just a rub out. If I could trade a Fillpula who is making 3 million per year, and pay a guy about a million or less to play on that fourth line who is going to hit, skate all over the ice, and maybe throw them down once in a while, id be all for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted February 9, 2009 I was really liking that Hossa-Flip-Leino line against Pitt. Indeed. That was a killer line. I say go for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Helm and Leino are great additions, but the only one I really think needs to be replaced is Sammy. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Hossa, Flip, Cleary Leino, Hudler, Franzen Malts, Draper, Kopecky Each of the top 3 lines have a play making center, a scoring winger and a winger that will muck it up in the corners and get in front of the net. Of course the 4 line does what it always does...check and give energy when needed. Helm will get his time... Re: bolded: Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
