Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 It appears signing both isn't completely out of the question http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../902100323/1004 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JPT 26 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 I hope Ken Holland does NOT try to keep both Franzen and Hossa by shipping off Flip and letting Hudler walk and then signing ridiculous long term deals. I don't have a problem with the Z deal but to have another 6 mil of dead cap space for Hossa and another 3-4 for Franzen would cripple the Red Wings in the future. Holland is too smart for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Yes, Fillpula shut down Malkin, but if you think Malkin was 100%, or if you believe it was all Flip as some in here make it out to be, your crazy. (Those aren't directed at you Opie, because you didnt give your opinion on the matter, just defending what I said and why I said it.) Check this s*** out: from the horses mouth, take your speculated injuries and the words from Malkin's mouth and decide which you believe. Puck Daddy: Talk about last year's playoffs for a moment. After the check Mike Richards put on you during the Flyers series last year, were you injured and feeling the effects of that hit the rest of the playoffs? Malkin: No, there was no injury. I remember that everyone started saying that my game had changed. To be honest, after the playoff series against the Flyers I got sick a little bit, I got the flu. I didn't feel very well in the first two games against Detroit. Maybe that was the reason people talked? But there was no injury, no concussion or anything like that. I think the flu affected my game. Maybe I also got a little bit tired. All of that combined didn't help my game. I even missed one practice because of that. But no injury. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 A> I never quoted you, nor did I single anyone out in my post. The only names referred to or mentioned were Flip, Malkin, Richards, not NN, not you. You assumed it was directed at you. Just because my post went below yours does not me I was directly referring to you, it means I was the first to post after you. B> You may not be familiar with the Jon Lovitz joke at the end of that post, I attribute that to you thinking I was serious with the pylon statement. It should have signaled over exaggeration as that character was known on the show(SNL) as the Liar, he ended all of his exaggerated lies with the statement "Yeah, that's the ticket!" any who, my statement was not that you believed a pylon could do it, it is called sarcasm, some might even say I was being facetious. C> Whether Malkin was 100% or not is meaningless, no one was 100% at that point in the season, Flip shut him down, if he was a mere shadow of himself health wise A) Why would he be on the roster, B)I never heard any reports about Malkin having any confirmed injuries. You are devaluing what Flip did because Malkin had a boo boo or had a serious injury, neither you nor I know the extent of his injuries or can even confirm he was injured at all, what if he was 92% is that an accomplishment for Flip, 85%, 65% where do we draw the line, because if we want to speculate, I speculate he was at about 98.6% physically in that series. BEWARE THAT WAS SARCASM! Mentally, I think, after game 2 he was at about 40%. I didn't say (as you stated I didn't give my opinion, should have) he could shut down a 100% Malkin, we don't know that because we have never seen him try. What we do know is that as a team the Red Wings (Which was my point not that Flip could do it) shut down most of the Pens that series, with some of the best team D the league has seen in the new era. I don't think Z shut down Crosby, I think the team did. Hockey above all sports can not be taken over by one player. One player can take you to heights unattainable with your old roster, but will not get you to the cup. Even the Pens with the "Next One" needed Malkin and Crosby two top 20 players in the game to get him there. I agree 100% with your statement it wasn't Fil, but you disregard him like he had nothing to do with it, switch him and Bobby Lang and see if Malkin still struggles or has to wait until game 6 to score. If the hit was so bad and he was so hurt where was the press release like Big Ben had, where was the "I played with Broken ribs and couldn't be myself." This guy was under a lot of fire for under producing in the series, yet he never says I was 80%, or I had a serious injury (RIBS) that prevented me from being at my best! Call me an eternal optimist or Homer which ever you see fit, but I tend to believe that in that series Malkin was shutdown, as opposed to being so injured he was rendered incompetent which is countered by the fact he scored within 15 seconds of the hit, and not a slick little wrister that wouldn't involve much rib movement, but instead wound up and unleashed a slap shot (lots of mid body movement) from the low slot. Ever injure your ribs, I have, breathing hurts like a bastard (I know you argument is adrenaline)! I agree the best thing for the Wings (If you are in the keep Hossa frame of mind) is if Hudler is offered a sheet. That way the Wings don't have to go the Quincey route. My only hesitation would be does Hudler warrant an offer sheet, in regards to do other teams think he has the assets to give him an inflated offer? Before this season I would say NO! After his very very good year I think Yes. I think a lot of GM's see him as a great piece to add. Not that he will be Joe Thornton, but if he were on the Wing of a guy like Thornton (I don't think he will end up in SJ, just an example.) or put him along side a guy like Nash he would produce. The only question like you said is, would he then be worth the 4-5 million dollar risk. (I put money not you). As much as others are over valuing Flip in your opinion it is my opinion that you underrate his defense and just attribute it to an injured opponent. I thought (mainly because it included the hit I posted, and was directly under my post) that you were refering to me. But now that I see your opinion and what you were trying to say, I dont disagree, at least not about much. It does take a great defensive player to slow down, shut down, whatever, a great player like Malkin, I did under value that. As far as the Hudler thing, I'm with you there. Coming into the season, I never would've believed someone would want to offer HIM an offer sheet, but he's changed everyones minds about that. I did not read that Puck Daddy interview (which is funny, because I read his stuff pretty much everyday.) I suppose I did undervalue Fillpulas contribution to shutting down Malkin, I never meant we'd win without Fillpula, just that I thought we were talented enough to move him, and not feel the loss. Who knows if that'd be true or not, we'll just have to see. At least were on the same page now though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russianswede919293 95 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 In Lunch with Ansar Kahn today on Mlive.com he stated that he feels that both Hossa and Franzen will re-sign with the Wings, and that he thinks Franzen will re-sign first at 4 million and that Hossa will agree verbally to a contract around 6 and will sign it after the season. I think that this means that either Hudler is gone or Filppula will be traded, or maybe even both. Honestly, I would rather have Franzen for 4 million then Filppula for 3 million, and I love Hudler, but losing him to a rival offer means that we get a first round pick, so it doesn't seem all that bad with Leino ready to take his place for cheaper. I used to be against keeping them both due to cap reasons, but with how awesome Hossa has been and my love of Franzen, I'm all on board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aussie_Wing 354 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Hossa/Filppula/Hudler >>> Hossa/Franzen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russianswede919293 95 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Hossa/Filppula/Hudler >>> Hossa/Franzen. I disagree, I think that Franzen is a presence that the wings cannot afford to lose. Homer has been out with a lot of groin issues lately, and I think with homer gone soon Franzen is somebody the Wings cannot afford to lose. I really would regret losing Filppula and Hudler as well though. This is the first time the cap has been a presence in us having to lose people really. Its a hard off season, and I am not jealous of what Ken Holland has on his plate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluedevils_13 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) Seriously, if the cap went up even 2mil (which reports have led me to believe it could prob even go down) that would make a world of difference for the Wings. Edited February 11, 2009 by Bluedevils_13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I would bet Zetterberg has a no-trade clause, at least for the first half of his contract. Franzen, Hudler and Helm are all natural centers - Detroit is definitely not lacking of viable centers. I am no longer above thinking Bettman might create an arbitrary rule out of thin air that inherently favors one team over another. Franzen is a natural winger who was converted to center in Sweden and then moved back to wing in Detroit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 In Lunch with Ansar Kahn today on Mlive.com he stated that he feels that both Hossa and Franzen will re-sign with the Wings, and that he thinks Franzen will re-sign first at 4 million and that Hossa will agree verbally to a contract around 6 and will sign it after the season. I think that this means that either Hudler is gone or Filppula will be traded, or maybe even both. Honestly, I would rather have Franzen for 4 million then Filppula for 3 million, and I love Hudler, but losing him to a rival offer means that we get a first round pick, so it doesn't seem all that bad with Leino ready to take his place for cheaper. I used to be against keeping them both due to cap reasons, but with how awesome Hossa has been and my love of Franzen, I'm all on board. Franzen for $4m....OVERPAID. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Alot would have to happen but it is not impossible. Here is what the Cap hits for next season looks like for the Wings with my estimates for Hossa and Franzen... FORWARDS (12) DATSYUK 6.7 ZETTERBERG 6 HOSSA 6 FRANZEN 3 CLEARY 2.8 HOLMSTROM 2.25 DRAPER 1.583 MALTBY .883 LEINO .875 ABDELKADER .85 HELM .598 KOPECKY .5 DEFENSEMEN (7) LIDSTROM 7.45 RAFALSKI 6 STUART 3.75 KRONWALL 3 ERICSSON .9 LEBDA .65 MEECH .483 GOALIES (2) OSGOOD 1.416 HOWARD .717 TOTAL (21) 56.405 MILLION Hossa would have to accept a deal similar to Zetterberg. A front loaded deal with a Cap hit of 6 mil per season. Franzen would have to accept a front loaded deal with a Cap hit of 3 mil per season. Filppula would have to be traded to get rid of his 3 mil Cap hit. Hudler would have to be either traded for draft picks or be signed by another team via an offer sheet which is not matched by the Wings. Samuelsson would be gone as a UFA. Lilja would be gone as well. So too would Chelios and Conklin. Replacing them would be Howard, Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader and Leino. So the Wings 3rd line would basically be replaced. New line-up: Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Hossa Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary Abdelkader-Helm-Leino Kopecky-Draper-Maltby Lidstrom-Rafalski Kronwall-Stuart Lebda-Ericsson Meech Osgood-Howard The Cap is supposed to be around the same as this year's 56.7 mil. So 56.405 is not too far off. Ultimately I expect Hossa to be gone and Hudler and Filppula will stay. But if Holland can get creative and convince both Hossa and Franzen to take similar structured deals such as Zetterberg's then it is not out of a question for the Wings to keep both players. "They" haven't called but there's no way I'm not gonna give my opinion. The hell with 'em. What do they know? Hossa has to stay. And from what I hear, he wants to stay. The positive chemistry between him, Dats and Zets is immeasurable and it is blatantly obvious he raises the level of play, whatever line he's on. Tonight's game was an excellent example of that. I want Franzen and Hudler to stay, and I would not mind at all seeing Filppula and Kopecky moved. As for Leino, YES! Anybody else watch Malts, Drapes and Leino together? That line shows great potential and looks a helluva lot better than when Kopecky plays on that line. Helm, Abdelkader, Meech and Ericcson must also be retained. Work the money anyway you have to. Thankyouverymuch. :deal: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hossa8109 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Sign Hossa before Franzen. The wings winning the stanley cup or not could decide his choice to stay or leave. Right now, it seems as if he wants to stay but anything is possible due to the outcome of the season. I think we need to take advantage as soon as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim 5 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I agree... we gotta sign Hossa first. Although Franzen's potential salary might be more palatable to other teams... I can't imagine many teams will offer him long-term deals. Hossa on the otherhand... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I thought (mainly because it included the hit I posted, and was directly under my post) that you were refering to me. But now that I see your opinion and what you were trying to say, I dont disagree, at least not about much. It does take a great defensive player to slow down, shut down, whatever, a great player like Malkin, I did under value that. As far as the Hudler thing, I'm with you there. Coming into the season, I never would've believed someone would want to offer HIM an offer sheet, but he's changed everyones minds about that. I did not read that Puck Daddy interview (which is funny, because I read his stuff pretty much everyday.) I suppose I did undervalue Fillpulas contribution to shutting down Malkin, I never meant we'd win without Fillpula, just that I thought we were talented enough to move him, and not feel the loss. Who knows if that'd be true or not, we'll just have to see. At least were on the same page now though I didn't think of your statement as another wing could do the job Flip did, I took it as Richards took Malkin out, and to be honest I thought more than just you and NN thought that when I first posted! So I guess to that point I just was blind to the fact that was a possibility. I think Hossa will want to stay, will his wallet want to stay, I am not sure. The guy is on a tear, if he keeps this up he COULD be in line for some hardware at the end of the season. I am not saying he wins the Hart, but he is a beast this year and COULD end up in contention for the Rocket Richard. I don't think Hossa has ever been on a team that is this good all around, sure the team goes through mental lapses, but it is a parallel universe to the one I am watching with the Celtic's. One night they destroy a contender like Detroit, only to barely eek out a win against Charlotte or Philly (Injured Philly not healthy at that). I see the same things with the Wings, one difference the C's do not have a Marian Hossa type guy going out night in and night out. One night it is Pierce, Allen, Or KG then another the next. With the Wings it is Hossa and one or two others almost every night (Lilja has been in that category a lot). That is why I have more confidence in the Wings through their struggles. They are not that far behind SJ, and a little ways behind Boston for best records, living in the Boston area, they are bound to tank a week or so worth of games, trust me it is coming. IF not, then this is not my father's Bruins!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JPT 26 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Honestly, I would rather have Franzen for 4 million then Filppula for 3 million, and I love Hudler, but losing him to a rival offer means that we get a first round pick, so it doesn't seem all that bad with Leino ready to take his place for cheaper. Wouldn't the Wings have to have an offer to Hudler to receive draft picks?♠ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 JPT< Hudler is a Restricted Free Agent, so I don't believe they have to counter offer or even have an offer on the table yet, I believe that because he is a RFA the Wings get compensation. I could be wrong, but this is the place to ask that question, it will get answered correctly!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 They have to make a qualifying offer to retain his rights as a restricted free agent. That will get done as it's either the old salary, or the old salary +5% or +10% depending on some scale but I don't know what the scale is. This is one of those formality type things that will get done. Similar to the "bonafide" offer rule for retaining draftees. The first year after getting drafted you have to make an offer to the prospect to keep their rights for another year. Again this is usually one of those formality type things that happens 99.9% of the time. The only time I can remember a team not making a bonafide offer after the first year is the Wings recently with Tyler Haskins. They cut him loose, which is weird because they would have had another year before having to make a decision. Not sure why but whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I didn't think of your statement as another wing could do the job Flip did, I took it as Richards took Malkin out, and to be honest I thought more than just you and NN thought that when I first posted! So I guess to that point I just was blind to the fact that was a possibility. I think Hossa will want to stay, will his wallet want to stay, I am not sure. The guy is on a tear, if he keeps this up he COULD be in line for some hardware at the end of the season. I am not saying he wins the Hart, but he is a beast this year and COULD end up in contention for the Rocket Richard. I don't think Hossa has ever been on a team that is this good all around, sure the team goes through mental lapses, but it is a parallel universe to the one I am watching with the Celtic's. One night they destroy a contender like Detroit, only to barely eek out a win against Charlotte or Philly (Injured Philly not healthy at that). I see the same things with the Wings, one difference the C's do not have a Marian Hossa type guy going out night in and night out. One night it is Pierce, Allen, Or KG then another the next. With the Wings it is Hossa and one or two others almost every night (Lilja has been in that category a lot). That is why I have more confidence in the Wings through their struggles. They are not that far behind SJ, and a little ways behind Boston for best records, living in the Boston area, they are bound to tank a week or so worth of games, trust me it is coming. IF not, then this is not my father's Bruins!!! I agree with your whole post except the fact that the Pistons are really contenders this year. They are 14th in the league in win % and barely above .500 too bad but I don't think they are a serious threat this year without a huge trade or deadline pick up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted February 11, 2009 Rresigning hossa will potentially cause us to lose our depth. It just doesn't make sense unless he signs for less than Zetta. Think about all the role players that we'll lose to keep another superstar... We'll have two strong lines, and that's about it. I say pass on Hossa unless he takes 5 - 5.5 million. I'd rather have our bread and butter players in Fil, Franz and Hudler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I agree with your whole post except the fact that the Pistons are really contenders this year. They are 14th in the league in win % and barely above .500 too bad but I don't think they are a serious threat this year without a huge trade or deadline pick up. Correct, what I should have said is at the time they beat them, it was right after the AI trade (BTW getting rid of Chauncey big mistake, one the C's learned a long time ago) and they were still a threat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieY9802 6 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 WWJ is now reporting a deal close I guess. My dad just called me and said they said Hossa nearing a deal worth between 6-6.5 mil per year. He didn't hear a length. Take it for what you will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillbillywingsfan 792 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 WWJ is now reporting a deal close I guess. My dad just called me and said they said Hossa nearing a deal worth between 6-6.5 mil per year. He didn't hear a length. Take it for what you will. wwj? did we forget the d or something. who is this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieY9802 6 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 wwj? did we forget the d or something. who is this? It's called a radio station. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted February 11, 2009 WWJ is now reporting a deal close I guess. My dad just called me and said they said Hossa nearing a deal worth between 6-6.5 mil per year. He didn't hear a length. Take it for what you will. Mlive is also speculating a deal between Zetterberg and Datsyuks salary. Which also supports your source WWJ. I believe this is very true. Hossa might be a long term Red Wing here shortly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillbillywingsfan 792 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 It's called a radio station. hahahahahah..SOOOOOOOORRRRYYYY. im just a dumb hillbilly that lives in austin. didn't know what it was. hahahahahha calm down there kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
